MA: I weep metaphorical tears of despair
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2009-04-10 24:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Canon says that anything that happens inside MA is in a Virtual Reality, therefore it never really happened.
If it never really happened, it can never contradict canon.
If it can't contradict canon, it must be canon.
Ergo eveything in the MA is canon.
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I love this guy...
Anyway, I really hope the overwhelming farming fad dies down as it was suggested it might. There's almost no such thing as "normal" teams and it's increasingly difficult to find members to join you on storyarcs which aren't farming related.
I wonder if things are any different on Defiant...?
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In general, Defiant is always better - for everything 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There's no 'might' about it. MA arcs/missions are not game canon. If you're not sure what that means, go and look it up.
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Tough. Mother's argument is still petty - the demand is for new content, gets it, yet starts whinging because it isn't developer made.
That's the only distinction that people are getting hooked on, and it's hilariously weak. Or would UBER L33T ARC 12 really be different simply because War Witch put her name on it, instead of @W4R W1TCH? Oh, and the developers have stated well written arcs can make their way into the canon. So bang goes that side of the coin.
/edit - Hell, actually, I'd damn well put money on the argument going from "they're not canon" to "they're just the same old things 
" if the MA arcs had been published by developers. Nor Cal wouldn't be able to win, they really wouldn't.
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No that analogy would only work if (insert obscure reason about bread here) ....
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I'm sorry, I can't see your post past this shattered spleen I have.
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Poptart .. You seem to be acting deliberately dense in your responses. If it's an act, then I apologise but you're good at it if it is 
First off I fixed the mistake you made in quoting me. If there was a way to have player generated arcs made as game canon, I would be all for it.
Right now they aren't, although I am aware that the devs have said that some arcs may be considered for a shift from a virtual setting to CoX game reality. I believe I said that earlier today as well.
The rest of your post is peculiar. No one - except farmers - want 'UBER L33T ARC 12' or anything like it. I didn't say that and neither did ML, indeed the general consensus on these boards is that farming missions are bad for the game.
We've had months of the devs tweaking farmable missions, to make them less so, yet ... here we have MA, which appears to be tailor made for farmers.
Now as for the game canon topic, it's really quite simple. If it occurs in the CoX dev written Universe, then it's game canon. Personally I follow the game story and plots as carefully as I can. I don't just grind my way to 50's over and over again.
The story matters to me. The fact that MA isn't part of the game canon is an issue for me - there's no getting around it. I like to immerse myself in this game - without going as far as RP, and MA just doesn't cater for that.
GR has come out and said that MA is newly developed and we are getting it around the same time as the devs are.
Given this I would imagine that the devs are busy working away to create a whole raft of new and interesting arcs/missions/mobs and perhaps zones for us to play - which are part of game canon.
We've seen how quickly some players can generate decent arcs and missions, so when i15 hits I can't think of any excuse for a wealth of new content.
Can you?
Last thing .. Londoner was responding to your really witty post,
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Your analogy would only work if you said the Coca Cola company wasn't adding fanta to its coke bottles...
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You were obviously still doing your dense act, so I'll let you off with that oversight
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Poptart .. You seem to be acting deliberately dense in your responses.
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Figured I'd speak to you guys on your level. Would be unfair otherwise.
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The rest of your post is peculiar. No one - except farmers - want 'UBER L33T ARC 12' or anything like it. I didn't say that and neither did ML, indeed the general consensus on these boards is that farming missions are bad for the game.
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Congratulations, immediatly after accusing me of acting dense you make a remark that fits 'dense' to a T. If you'd bothered to read the essence of my argument, rather than getting worked up over the title of an imaginary example arc, you'd realise what I was saying: new content is new content. You and Mother dismissing it and claiming it's lazy - simply because it isn't canon - is a ridiculous way of lambasting new story arcs. That's the only complaint you two have brought up against the system.
Again, if the only difference in a story arc that matters to you is who writes it, then that says more about your standards than it does the developers. I mentioned nothing about farming.
Constantly banging on about canon doesn't change the fundamental argument. Just shows your record player's broken.
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You were obviously still doing your dense act, so I'll let you off with that oversight
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I can switch away from my act any time (not that I would: seeing Londoner wet his little panties is hilarious), but you're going to struggle to break away from the genuine tract of ignorance you've been clinging to.
Everyone can please cease with the ad hominem arguments. This is a discussion forum with very clear rules on what sort of arguments are allowed and what aren't. Please leave the personal comments at home and stick to discussing the topic.
I couldn't agree more. On the upside i like the look of the Mission Architect building interior, the holograms are all wibbly-wobbley and a pretty green colour similar to the apples in my kitchen.
The thing I think some people are missing is that the developers have not had architect a huge amount of time longer than we have. Sure, they'll have had it before we even got to closed beta, but if you look at the developer commentaries on it, it went from dream to reality in a surprisingly short time.
Yes, the developers will now have the ability to all chip in when it comes to creating missions for the game. Yes, that could indicate (but does not guarantee) that the amount of story content we will see in future issues is going to be vastly in excess of that which we have seen recently... but one thing I can guarantee is that the developers have a lot on their hands right now, so for some of them (probably most of them), writing up a quick story arc using the developer version of Architect, just to have been able to include it in I14, is not going to have been a high priority.
The real priorities are Issue 15 and Issue 16, 5th Anniversary and ensuring that the business plan to compete with Champions Online is on track.
I suspect that Issue 15 will be quite quick to Beta, and I hope that the Fifth... anniversary has some real punch to it.
We knew that I14 was going to be Architect. I'm surprised and amazed that people are complaining that the developers didn't include story content that wouldn't fit the theme of the issue.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
I must admit, it would have been nice if the "Guest writer" part had at least one arc done by a dev or even better, Clive Barker
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
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I must admit, it would have been nice if the "Guest writer" part had at least one arc done by a dev or even better, Clive Barker
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I second this motion.
Where the hell *IS* Clive Barker anyway? I haven't seen any of his books about in ages.
I think I saw one new one in the kids section of Hodges Figgis but that was it.
Clive Barker's March of Statesman, written by Clive Barker. Introduction and foreword by Clive Barker.
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Clive Barker's March of Statesman, written by Clive Barker. Introduction and foreword by Clive Barker.
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Sorry are you telling me he has a new book out, that this is his last one, that this is the kids one, that this is the Story Arc he's done for CoH or that this is the Story Arc you wish he'd do for CoH?
Cannae find it on play.com anyway. Needs moer infoz plz!
Oh, it doesn't exist.
Just a weirdly vague reference to his tendency to make his attached name incredibly obvious. Don't actually know the guy beyond some really creepy book covers in my local Woolies though.
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Oh, it doesn't exist.
Just a weirdly vague reference to his tendency to make his attached name incredibly obvious. Don't actually know the guy beyond some really creepy book covers in my local Woolies though.
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Dammit, I went looking for it. All I did was confirm that all he's done recently is kids books Looking at the list on Play.com it seems the reason the Name thing gets done is that a lot of recent releases are comic book versions of the older novels by different people.
I've a feeling any Guest Author missions are going to be of things like Web comic authors such as Scott Whatshisface from PvP Online (although they long ago stopped being about computer games really).
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I've a feeling any Guest Author missions are going to be of things like Web comic authors such as Scott Whatshisface from PvP Online (although they long ago stopped being about computer games really).
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Or "Hi My name is Richard Garriott, please play my arc, I will charge you for it, use the dosh to go into space again, then delete it when I am done"
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
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Poptart .. You seem to be acting deliberately dense in your responses.
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Figured I'd speak to you guys on your level. Would be unfair otherwise.
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The rest of your post is peculiar. No one - except farmers - want 'UBER L33T ARC 12' or anything like it. I didn't say that and neither did ML, indeed the general consensus on these boards is that farming missions are bad for the game.
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Congratulations, immediatly after accusing me of acting dense you make a remark that fits 'dense' to a T. If you'd bothered to read the essence of my argument, rather than getting worked up over the title of an imaginary example arc, you'd realise what I was saying: new content is new content. You and Mother dismissing it and claiming it's lazy - simply because it isn't canon - is a ridiculous way of lambasting new story arcs. That's the only complaint you two have brought up against the system.
Again, if the only difference in a story arc that matters to you is who writes it, then that says more about your standards than it does the developers. I mentioned nothing about farming.
Constantly banging on about canon doesn't change the fundamental argument. Just shows your record player's broken.
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You were obviously still doing your dense act, so I'll let you off with that oversight
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I can switch away from my act any time (not that I would: seeing Londoner wet his little panties is hilarious), but you're going to struggle to break away from the genuine tract of ignorance you've been clinging to.
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Hmmm
Call it clinging or banging on about canon all you like. It will never change the fact that every MA arc is not game canon - unless the devs make it so by including it in the game itself.
There is simply no other way of getting around that.
Yup I'm complaining about i14 because of this. As issues go it was a non entity - as far as game canon goes - and if players are not into i14 it had even less to offer.
I did notice however that one of my friends had his MA arc pulled by the devs, because they said it encouraged farming 
I guess that puts the game canon argument to rest.
I can see a whole lot of other arcs getting pulled - after players have spent a lot of time writing them. The farming ones deserve it but there will be arcs that aren't meant to be farms which will get pulled as well.
I'm just waiting on the backlash from it to happen. When it does you can be sure we'll hear about it
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
I sadly have to agree, it's been what...two weeks and the MA is already filled with more five star piles of dross than I care to think about.
I think I've played probably five really good five star arcs, the first Hall of Fame entrant, The Footstep initiative (that arc damn well deserved it, it's very well done). Arctic Princess Twisted Tales part one arc (sadly now unpublished) and her/his latest arc which is also very good, did it will a team of four and everyone enjoyed it. The build your own moonbase arc which is definitely one of the best devs choice arcs (lets face it, even a few of those aren't exactly eyebogglingly brilliant) and one other which escapes me at the moment.
I think playing The Footstep iniative as my first ever MA arc probably spoiled me somewhat but going through pages and pages of five star farm maps or maps called 'Test' with the description 'put this up to test something' (seriously for Jehovahs sake, that's what the test your arc before publishing option is for...) is just awful.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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I think playing The Footstep iniative as my first ever MA arc probably spoiled me somewhat but going through pages and pages of five star farm maps or maps called 'Test' with the description 'put this up to test something' (seriously for Jehovahs sake, that's what the test your arc before publishing option is for...) is just awful.
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Pretty much ALL of those "test" arcs are just farms.
As for the Footstep Initiative, I agree! Anyone who hasn't played it yet, should! It's a cracker.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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I can switch away from my act any time (not that I would: seeing Londoner wet his little panties is hilarious), but you're going to struggle to break away from the genuine tract of ignorance you've been clinging to.
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Go and tell some more unfunny jokes about stabbing babies and crushed spleens in the creative section you silly [censored].
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We knew that I14 was going to be Architect. I'm surprised and amazed that people are complaining that the developers didn't include story content that wouldn't fit the theme of the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]I remember the Posi interview stating that "Mission Architect could stand on its own" and the uproar that followed, most of it was centered on how it shouldn't be the only thing about i14. Is it really a surprise that people are complaining about it again?
It couldn't have taken the entire dev team to create the tool so what I'm hoping is that it means they've been working deviously on i15, keeping it almost ready for months.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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We knew that I14 was going to be Architect. I'm surprised and amazed that people are complaining that the developers didn't include story content that wouldn't fit the theme of the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]I remember the Posi interview stating that "Mission Architect could stand on its own" and the uproar that followed, most of it was centered on how it shouldn't be the only thing about i14. Is it really a surprise that people are complaining about it again?
It couldn't have taken the entire dev team to create the tool so what I'm hoping is that it means they've been working deviously on i15, keeping it almost ready for months.
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Well said.
This, along with the fact that MA arcs are not part of the game canon, are the problems I have with i14.
To add in nothing else and then punt out a few cossies and a temp for £4.99 is ludicrous.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Thats good to hear, however, continued tweaking of architect (much like pvp) is not NCsoft's workload but the Dev's,... like I said, more time invested.
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It almost seems like you're complaining a) that the Devs are continuing to undertake development work and b) that the Devs are continuing to support recently-released projects within the game.
You might not be massively fond of MA, but - objectively - wouldn't you be more concerned if they'd just decided to drop it on its [censored] and not invest resources to improving it?
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
According to my search via the Mission Architect, there aren't any Hall of Fame recipients at all yet; I'd debate whether Footsteps would deserve it if it had been awarded (but that's not really productive on the boards) yet I'm wondering where these rumours of this or that arc keep coming from? I hear every day someone claim a new mission as HoF, often from rather trustable sources, and hoping to be able to work a few new badges, I do a search and... nothing. Do you all know something I don't?
Currently there's a bug where down voting an arc drops it out of hall of fame, he did managed to achieve hall of fame then some git gives him a one star out of spite and he drops out.
It was HoF for a couple of hours, it's also mentioned in his Arc review thread on the US forums with multiple other posters congradulating him on HoF before it dropped.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
Problem is, how do u know it was spite? It could just be that someone else didnt want to back slap as they didnt like it.
Its all subjective.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
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He WAS in the HoF. I have seen that myself. Then suddenly poof he is gone.
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I would disagree.
Nothing in MA is game canon - except inside the writers head.
The fact that is set within a virtual reality environment surely precludes anything in MA from being game canon?
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Canon says that anything that happens inside MA is in a Virtual Reality, therefore it never really happened.
If it never really happened, it can never contradict canon.
If it can't contradict canon, it must be canon.
Ergo eveything in the MA is canon.
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I'm now weeping metaphorical tears of despair at the 'I weep metaphorical tears of despair' thread.
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The thread is now even more emo
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork