Interpritation question: RI Longbow captives?

I was just wondering... What do Longbow do in the Isles with those they capture?

For a plot idea that already started but I'm still winging, I'd like to see what people's views are.

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@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity

If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.

Personally, I've always imagined them transferring any captured villains to one of the Longbow bases dotted around the Isles (Like in Nerva or Bloody Bay), before transport can be arranged to get them to the Zig.

Though, this does mean that they intend to capture
It's quite possible that, given the threats on the Isles, they'd be permitted to use lethal force if absolutely necessary.

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@Crius

Bassai, Canadian Kid, Alruna, Kahi

Mistress Rad, Culpeo, Ms. Demeanor, Celsius

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. Let's go to work.

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Personally, I've always imagined them transferring any captured villains to one of the Longbow bases dotted around the Isles (Like in Nerva or Bloody Bay), before transport can be arranged to get them to the Zig.
Though, this does mean that they intend to capture
It's quite possible that, given the threats on the Isles, they'd be permitted to use lethal force if absolutely necessary.


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I thought that too, but then someone ingame (and IC) pointed out that the Zig is a US establishment and the Rogue Isles isn't the US, plus Longbow have no real juristiction (right?), so wouldn't technically be able to arrest someone and deport them to the US...

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@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity

If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I've always imagined them transferring any captured villains to one of the Longbow bases dotted around the Isles (Like in Nerva or Bloody Bay), before transport can be arranged to get them to the Zig.

Though, this does mean that they intend to capture
It's quite possible that, given the threats on the Isles, they'd be permitted to use lethal force if absolutely necessary.

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They are terrorists and kidnappers.

Probably have a kill first mentality going on, if only to save on the shipping costs.

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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

Depending on the Villian in question, they may send them to one of the underwater reasearch labs to well reasearch and so on

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Longbow are light boys (And girls), they wouldn't be shooting to kill unless it's the only option.

The Underwater base and then taken to the Zig sounds good. 90% of the Villains on RI have committed some crime State side after all!

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And please don't mention extradition. Hasn't anyone ever heard of extraordinary rendition? I don't think Longbow much care whether they have jurisdiction or not. Light boys my bottom!

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

You're trying to apply real life due process and laws to a world that not only legalised Vigilantism, but whose Heroes stopped the cold war escalating by disarming both nations. It's usually hand waved. How often do our characters spend giving testimonies in court? Exactly.

Not to mention they're both armed and trained by NATO as mentioned in a few of the mob Bios. Who you think would realise they're doing illegal war considering war with Arachnos is pretty much ALL they do. It's fun to call Longbow nothing but glorified thugs IC, but they're not OOC. They really are trying to do the right thing, within the law. Whether it's the correct course of action is up for debate, but they're not hosting an incredibly obvious and highly illegal war. Someone would probably have mentioned it by now....

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You're trying to apply real life due process and laws to a world that not only legalised Vigilantism, but whose Heroes stopped the cold war escalating by disarming both nations. It's usually hand waved. How often do our characters spend giving testimonies in court? Exactly.

Not to mention they're both armed and trained by NATO as mentioned in a few of the mob Bios. Who you think would realise they're doing illegal war considering war with Arachnos is pretty much ALL they do. It's fun to call Longbow nothing but glorified thugs IC, but they're not OOC. They really are trying to do the right thing, within the law. Whether it's the correct course of action is up for debate, but they're not hosting an incredibly obvious and highly illegal war. Someone would probably have mentioned it by now....

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They attacked Vanguard forces purely because Vanguard was upstaging them on the nice guys in uniform stage. Yeah they are terrorists.

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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

What CB said
The Candies might have started out with good intentions, but they now seem to think they are the be-all and end-all of the law. Vanguard is a UN sanctioned force, funded and armed specifically to kick as much Rikti backside as possible. And the boys and girls in red and white are trying to STOP them?
Meh.

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Actually yes they are...they're trying to stop what they believe to be vanguard from blowing up the portal which leads to and from the Rikti homeworld because it's actually a very very bad idea (universe destroyingly bad idea).

Longbow just got the wrong end of the stick not realising it was a Renegade faction of Vanguard doing it, infact at the end of the arc you get an apology letter from that Longbow Eagle hero lass (the on partnered with the nicer and generally more approachable Forcefields/Energy Ballista).

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Badge Earned: Wing Clipper

A real showstopper!

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They attacked Vanguard forces purely because Vanguard was upstaging them on the nice guys in uniform stage. Yeah they are terrorists.

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When? The only time they come to blow with Vanguard is when Renegade Vanguard take one of their Rikti diplomats (And kill him too) and they later beat said renegade Vanguard down. Because of this they tell the main Vanguard they can't be trusted, which is a fair point as Longbow DON'T have a crazy splinter faction to deal with right now. They then go on and say Vanguard should get on board Longbow's initiative so they can be trusted or stand down.

Vanguard then send you to attack a Longbow listening post to get information on the Renegades rather than allow this shift of power. This was completely unprovoked, the only people Longbow had attacked up till then were Renegades and you who they confused to be a Renegade at the time. In fact attacking you is a little odd in the mission, it's played as a misunderstanding as Tefu is entirely nice to you after you win, even calling you friend and trying to help explain the situation. It seems like the fight was oddly unnecessary and even Tefu says so if he knocks out a player. I guess his mission was to capture all Vanguard forces in the base and that'd included you.

But back to the main point rather than try be diplomatic, they actually raid the longbow base to seize information. Longbow were admittedly spying on Vanguard by this point, but again, Vanguard troops had just taken and murdered one of their Rikti Diplomats and they knew some weren't playing by the rules. They thought Vanguard were destabilizing peace talks so the war wouldn't be ended non violently and so couldn't trust them, hence why they weren't handing the data over. Not checking on them would have been naively stupid.

When you do clear Vanguard's name from the kidnapping by proving that it was a splinter faction and ending them, Longbow back off. Being entirely reasonable about it all although still justifiably wary of Vanguard. Again, Vanguard have had a very, very crazy splinter group try seize power of an armed force to commit genocide, Longbow haven't.

Not sure how everyone is getting 'No reason' out of all that. It's clearly part misunderstanding and part completely justifiable mistrust once some of Vanguards troops go off the rails. Longbow never attack the Main Vanguard but simply extend their control over the area and ask for them to stand down.

Longbow even assist Vanguard later despite all this by loaning their Portal technology. If anything Longbow are practically saints through this whole mess.

Also worth noting was Longbow were prepared to finish the fight with or without Vanguard's help. So they weren't leaving the world at risk by butting heads here. In fact if they hadn't clamped down on Vanguard and the Renegades the situation likely would have got worse as you wouldn't have been able to locate them and take them out. Vanguard might well have been dissolved as it was torn apart form the inside after the Renegades kill Lady Gret or the entire world when the Renegades bomb the portal and rip apart the very fabric of the universe.

Edit: Ed said it shorter. But there's the full thing.

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Actually Fans the FF/Nrg Ballista tells you about the listening posts and suggests that you break into it to get the info, he would send word that your coming and to let you through to share the information but because you're working for Vanguard and the higher ups are still rather miffed it wouldn't do much good anyway but the good Lieutenant Sejfu knows you've got to get the info.

the Ms Dietrich Longbow Eagle kind of represents the bad side of Longbow, their bone headed, refuse to listen to explanations and will jump to the first conclusion, she's more like a Soldier than a peace enforcer. Meanhile Lt Sejfu represents the more 'heroic' aspects of Longbow, he's trusting, is willing to discuss things over and generally will sit back and try to view both sides of the story (which actually made me gutted when...well play the Dark Watchers arc and you find out...).

That whole arc is the classic superhero misunderstanding effect with Vanguard being a bit too secretive to actually say to Longbow "We've got a problem with a few Rogue elements and wouldn't mend you're help in dealing with them" so it all kind of blows up in their face.

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Badge Earned: Wing Clipper

A real showstopper!

You guys are getting sidetracked from the original question. It's not about Longbow vs Vanguard, it's about what do Longbow do with people they arrest!

Unfortunately, there's zero canon in game about this, as far as I know, so I'm going to go with Birdy. They likely use extraordinary rendition to effectively kidnap and imprison criminals from the Isles, Guantanamo Bay style, but probably lock them up in the Zig, which appears to have infinite capacity.

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@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

QR (late for work!)

IIRC, (will check later) I seem to remember a CoV arc where you had to break a villian out of a place called the Zag which was apparently their facility for detaining captives in the Isles. Whether it was a permanent prison or just somewhere to keep them before transferring them to the Zig, I can't remember.

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@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

Personally, I'd assume that IF they choose to capture and hold a person from the Isles, and with them being one of the first basic world enemies you meet in Mercy, and have a shoot on sight policy throughout the Isles (In game mechanic it maybe, but if they wanted them to be passive and peaceful, Longbow would have been kept to turning up in missions only imo) the odds of anyone they drag in being alive is questionable. I'd then assume that the captive is held and questioned or whatever in one of the Longbow compounds of the Isles.

Transfering people to the Zig is the troublesome point. Why bother? And since not every single person who resides within the Isles is a blood thirsty criminal who heads into Paragon to steal, blow things up or whatever, the Guantanamo Bay style inprisonment seems unlikely WITHOUT firm, solid proof that there IS a justifiable reason. This is Longbow we're talking about, the masses may be jumped up goons with guns where they don't belong, but Ms Liberty has her public image and reputation to protect, and her organisation illegally holding civilians due to living in the Isle is something I'm pretty damned sure she'd want to avoid.

In a world populated by people beyond the ordinary, some even able to read minds like open books, getting away with something underhanded like planting people in the Zig without following scrict protocal and the law is about as likely as kicking water uphill.

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In a world populated by people beyond the ordinary, some even able to read minds like open books, getting away with something underhanded like planting people in the Zig without following scrict protocal and the law is about as likely as kicking water uphill.

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Considering their entire presence in the Isle's is against the laws of that sovereign nation anyway, I doubt they'd balk at a little kidnapping and imprisonment without trial. Hell, the REAL American government does this too!

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@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

From Wiki

Organized by Ms. Liberty, the Longbow division of Freedom Corps is bent on the destruction of Arachnos. This militia extends its presence to every corner of the Rogue Isles, acting as a military support network for super-powered beings in the struggle against Lord Recluse.

Freedom Corps is one of the main hero organizations in Paragon City. Freedom Corps was started by Miss Liberty (the mother of Ms. Liberty) to facilitate communication and coordination between Paragon City's new heroes. The Freedom Corps headquarters is located in Galaxy City near Back Alley Brawler and contains some initial Contacts for heroes.

So Longbow is a Merc unit operating in a hostile region ..so it can do what it likes with prisoners , which technically it cannot arrest as it has no legal powers .
However as I am not the best on canon ..
Question one ..is the government of the rouge isle recognised by the US ,
Question two ..is longbow a military or a federal organisation …

IF the US does not consider there to be a legal government in the RIs and Longbow is military , then anyone arrested can be considered a combatant and places in a military prison camp , under military control ..This is what the US did in Somalia ..and at the start in Afghanistan ….
Yes this in not in line with international law , but is how things have been done by many countries before .

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AFAIK, the US does not recognize the government in the Etoile Islands.
Longbow are a private mercenary force. They're neither a federal organization or military.

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@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

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AFAIK, the US does not recognize the government in the Etoile Islands.
Longbow are a private mercenary force. They're neither a federal organization or military.

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However, the Etoiles ARE UN Recognised. reading up on Recluse and Arachnos, its only from our in-game PoV that we see what Arachnos is really like. From the outside Recluse is just a political leader (albeit a stupidly powerful one) and the Spiders are the Islands military force.

And since when does the US agree with anyone, anyway? If it was the Heroes living on the Isles, out of the Goverments reach, you can bet the situation would still be similar.

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in which case longbow can not send people to the Zig from the isles ..in fact they could not legally send them back to the US ..

i guess they could smuggle them into the US then have them arrested IF they are wanted in the US .. the US does offer bounties on international criminals ...

Does Longbow have any conection to any "rebel Goverment " in the isle that is a real political organisation opposed to Recluse ? ... ?

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in which case longbow can not send people to the Zig from the isles ..in fact they could not legally send them back to the US ..

i guess they could smuggle them into the US then have them arrested IF they are wanted in the US .. the US does offer bounties on international criminals ...

Does Longbow have any conection to any "rebel Goverment " in the isle that is a real political organisation opposed to Recluse ? ... ?

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Even if they are wanted in the US they still couldn't assuming that none Arachnos posted bounty hunting is illegal in the isles.

Edit: Which is why I think they are a shoot to death first kinda organisation.

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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

I kind of have to agree with the "shoot to kill" theories.

While we are operating in an obviously fake world where firearms are less lethal than they are in the real world, I think that we have to accept that certain attitudes and responsibilites relating to the use of weapons are still prevalent, and the first rule of carrying a gun is "if you draw your gun, be prepared to kill someone with it".

Given that Longbow don't seem concerned about pulling out a firearm and shooting at someone with it, it must therefore be assumed that they are prepared to kill. Essentially, there is no such thing as "shoot to maim/injure". A gun has only one purpose, and that is to kill things. (This is something that makes me quite grateful for the UK's gun control legislation - there are people in the US who will claim that a gun is for self-defense or intimidation. I do not believe that for one second. A gun is for killing things. If you own one, carry one, or draw one, you must be prepared to kill with it, or it just becomes a very oddly-shaped paperweight/club.)

So, while it is possible that Longbow have the facilities and ability (not necessarily the right, under Etoile Island law) to imprison, the fact that the majority of them tend to "shoot first, ask questions later" gives me the impression that it is a secondary option.

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The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*

As it seem that they are involved in a armed conflict and are called a militia ((in canon )) , I have to agree with CB ..the shoot first ..they are in a war situation … look at the weapons they use ..any prisoners are a problem for them ..lets assume as they are the good guys (( can we ? )) they may have a prison camp (( or may be ship )) where they can store prisoners until the conflict is resolved .

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The intimidation factor of having a gun looses it's value when everyone has one, it also looses it when most likely the person your trying to intimidate is so drugged up they don't care that they might get shot.

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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.