Interpritation question: RI Longbow captives?

Interesting views and points made in this discussion!
Thanks all.


In my little happy corner of the world I'll stick to "Longbow aims to arrest", with all the impracticality and likeliness of fatal casualties on both sides.

If I don't, I'd have to assume that Ms Liberty has founded and is backing a group that basically hunts and kills. THAT is something I will not do.

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@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity

If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.

I had it in my head that Freedom Corps came under the wing of the FBSA; is that wrong?

If Freedom Corps is Federal (which, by the sound of what's been said here, it ain't), then Longbow is Federal, which makes its presence in the Isles either an act of war or an internationally recognized crime. If Longbow are not Feds, then surely they fall under the blanket of "super powered illegal organization" and would be viewed and treated by the inhabitants and government of the Isles as such - much like the denizens of Paragon City would consider their own illegal and dangerous gangs like the Council or Fifth Column.

Consequently I imagine Longbow have their own holding cells much like the Council have theirs. If they wanted to pick someone up then it would be as dirty an affair over there as when the Council kidnap someone in Paragon City. I don't think that Longbow do what they do in the Isles with a view to repopulating the Zig (although its possible that they might feel an urge to do so if they nabbed a "Destined One" - I guess it depends on the overall strategy they're pursuing, and maybe reward payments help fund pay for thei spandex and bicycle helmets ). They're declared aim is to destroy Arachnos (local turf wars with other gangs, like Sky Raiders or whatever, are by-the-by - there's bad blood there, ain't there ) so I would assume that everything they do is pursuant to that purpose. If they seek, therefore, to make a specific effort to kidnap someone in the Isles, I would assume that it's got to be because it would aid them in that struggle - and that (s)he'd be held wherever the hell they thought was most convenient - either locally or in the States, or on the Moon - wherever they thought was best. If they kidnap anyone in the Isles, it's illegal, after all.

But this is all speculative waffle at the end of the day. There is no Game Canon or anything else to guide us, so, as it's a world of fantasy adventure, I think that under the circumstances you describe, Ghostie, Longbow can do whatever you want them to do

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Longbow and Freedom Corps are two different organisations.

Freedom Corps is super powered mercenaries and a private company, Longbow is either part of the FBSA or a branch of the military forget which.

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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

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Longbow and Freedom Corps are two different organisations.

Freedom Corps is super powered mercenaries and a private company, Longbow is either part of the FBSA or a branch of the military forget which.

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Other way around.

Freedom Corps are mandated by the FBSA, Longbow are mercs.

Although they're not really mercs either. They're a private army, like Wyvern. In fact, it's probably best to consider them something like an NPC supergroup.

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@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

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Longbow and Freedom Corps are two different organisations.

Freedom Corps is super powered mercenaries and a private company, Longbow is either part of the FBSA or a branch of the military forget which.

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Other way around.

Freedom Corps are mandated by the FBSA, Longbow are mercs.

Although they're not really mercs either. They're a private army, like Wyvern. In fact, it's probably best to consider them something like an NPC supergroup.

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Hmmm then which one is Hero Corps?

Wait they're the mercs I was thinking off.

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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

To be fair this is an organisation that houses a wide variety of people in game, ranging from the lenient, to the more militaristic (see the Rikti warzone arcs) to the downright villainous (whether or not they know it, see Lt. Demitrovich). While I'll admit at least some of them would be frowned on, at the least, by the organisation at large it does nonetheless allow for a large amount of leniency when it comes to roleplaying the handling of enemy combatants or prisoners.

After all, it's a large organisation which seems to operate many small satellite installations which are relied upon to act on their own discretion if something should threaten security. Each individual group would probably respond in a slightly different manner dependent on the military composition and commander of the group. When push comes to shove, who's to say what gets lost in communication?

This is just my opinion though. In the end it means nothing, It's just how I've come to see longbow after numerous encounters as both hero and villain.

And yes I know it amounts to a glorified "I'm sitting on the fence" but I thought trying to classify an organisation as large as longbow as "good" or "bad" was pretty pointless.

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Friends are just enemies that haven't betrayed you yet.

Okay, time for a bit of creative analysis of what we know.

We know that Longbow is an organisation founded by Ms. Liberty (herself subject to FBSA rules as leader of the Vindicators, but the Freedom Phalanx (of which she is also a member) have historically declared that they are not subject to the laws of any one country).

Longbow is manned by people who want to be heroes, but who lack the powers or skills necessary to actually "compete" - so they are trained and equipped with high-powered gear to bring them on an approximate par with some super-powered individuals.

Freedom Corps itself, while being described as an "heroic organisation", does not actually employ heroes, but rather acts in a supporting and logistical role. It is unclear whether FC falls under the FBSA, though it is easy to infer some level of close coordination, given that the main FC building on Galaxy City also houses FBSA Branch Offices.

It is not unreasonable to suppose that if FC were to break "the rules", then the FBSA could bring a LOT of pressure to end their business, and Ms. Liberty is working very hard with the opposite aim in mind.

Longbow, as the Military Division of FC, will be closely scrutinised by the FBSA, and given the equipment that Longbow carry around the city, it is very likely that any Longbow seen in Paragon will also be registered as a Hero. Thus, crimes commited on US soil by Longbow will be subject to FBSA review.

However, the Etoile Islands are manifestly not US soil, there is no extradition treaty with the US, and Longbow will be acting there as an international peacekeeping organisation. Lord Recluse himself, in an attempt to not appear to be the villainous scumbag that he is, will therefore allow them into the Isles, because a) they are such a minor nuisance as far as he's concerned that they're not worth the trouble to keep them out and b) because they will help weed the weak from his villainous shores.

Officially, then, Longbow, while not being wanted, will be sanctioned to act in the Etoile Islands. The official story will undoubtedly be that they are working alongside Lord Recluse's military to ensure order is kept on the islands, but everyone will know that as the polite fiction it really is. However, because Recluse has to keep the outside world's view of him as the ruler of the Etoiles in a positive light as much as possible, he has to at least visibly support Longbow's actions, while behind the scenes he will work against them, hoping to divert resources away from Paragon City, thus weakening the premier heroic support and logistics organisation in the city, and therefore making conquest of Paragon even easier for himself.

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The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*

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AFAIK, the US does not recognize the government in the Etoile Islands.
Longbow are a private mercenary force. They're neither a federal organization or military.

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"The strength of their ideological conviction, coupled with the advanced training and munitions provided by NATO, render the Longbow soldiers a force to be reckoned with."

Gotta wonder why NATO continues to supply and train them if they're committing a very public, very blatant international crime.

Probably because they're not and the war on Arachnos is actually supported on the international stage. Because Recluse is a crazy person and his removal is key to the Defence of its members.

They are a member of Freedom Corps but they seem to also be be working for, or at least very closely with NATO.

It's just silly to think Longbow is committing a hugely illegal and fairly public war and no one calls them on it. You think at least one person would mention it in the game at some point. But it's never brought up in CoV, not once. Now sure because it's never explicitly stated what the politicians decision was you could pretend that it's all hugely illegal. But that's so out of character for Ms. Liberty and Longbow itself! That's why I pointed out the Vanguard thing, because it was trying to incorrectly paint them as people who break the law just to be petty.

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AFAIK, the US does not recognize the government in the Etoile Islands.
Longbow are a private mercenary force. They're neither a federal organization or military.

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"The strength of their ideological conviction, coupled with the advanced training and munitions provided by NATO, render the Longbow soldiers a force to be reckoned with."

Gotta wonder why NATO continues to supply and train them if they're committing a very public, very blatant international crime.

Probably because they're not and the war on Arachnos is actually supported on the international stage. Because Recluse is a crazy person and his removal is key to the Defence of its members.

They are a member of Freedom Corps but they seem to also be be working for, or at least very closely with NATO.

It's just silly to think Longbow is committing a hugely illegal and fairly public war and no one calls them on it. You think at least one person would mention it in the game at some point. But it's never brought up in CoV, not once. Now sure because it's never explicitly stated what the politicians decision was you could pretend that it's all hugely illegal. But that's so out of character for Ms. Liberty and Longbow itself! That's why I pointed out the Vanguard thing, because it was trying to incorrectly paint them as people who break the law just to be petty.

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I think, in open field, its a standoff when it comes to Arachnos vS Longbow. If Recluse were to say 'They are invading me' Longbow would simply slam down a wad of evidence against him. In turn, Longbow cant claim that evidence first as, under UN (I think) rules, etc, they are breaking the law.

Everyone KNOWS Recluse is evil (mostly) and everonye KNOWS Longbow is in the Isels (again, mostly), certainly in and around Paragon and that side of the US. Its one of things that people keep mum about.

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I think we're reading too much into it. I think the issue is that the game plotlines got scrambled and it only becomes a problem when we go into geek overload to try and explain it to ourselves I'm thinking that there are just a few essential elements in this:

1. Longbow are the good guys. They fight evil.

2. Recluse and his followers are evil. They really do have an evil empire.

3. It's not the real world, so (as has been said before) the niceties of real world diplomacy and law count for nothing here. It's one of the great things about a superhero game: you can exact spectacular revenge upon evil without worrying about getting sued afterwards

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It's one of the great things about a superhero game: you can exact spectacular revenge upon evil without worrying about getting sued afterwards

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Tell that to Countess Crey.

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The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*

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Gotta wonder why NATO continues to supply and train them if they're committing a very public, very blatant international crime.

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Remember Iraq? Technically, that was "a very public, very blatant international crime." The invasion was not ratified by the UN until after the fact, and even then the invasion itself was not ratified, they merely wanted in on making sure the clean-up was done right.

NATO is a military organisation, not a peacekeeping or political group. They do what the think is militarily required, according to the members. I'd tend to agree with them that Arachnos represents a threat. Unlike Iraq, Recluse probably could get his hands on WMD if he wanted.

Additionally, given that the Isles represent a situation not unlike Cuba, I can't see the US taking it well.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

It may not be perfectly supported (But what war is?) but to think they're doing it against the will of the world is incredibly unlikely. Especially with a 'Kill 'em all' attitude when practically every NPC you get notes on from Longbow show they're hard working, hero minded and determined to help.

The Longbow in Mercy voice, hesitantly that sometimes they wish they could just ... wipe people out. Which is the exemption that proves the rule that they DON'T kill people out of turn. They probably use rubber bullets, gel packed bullets, sonic disablers, muscle relaxing, whatever bullets to take people in without killing.

Recluse has also got his hands on WMD's. The Web wasn't a new form of internet!

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It may not be perfectly supported (But what war is?) but to think they're doing it against the will of the world is incredibly unlikely.

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I didn't say it wasn't. I was addressing your reference to NATO funding an unsanctioned invasion.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

It's a bad comparison though. Iraq was an incredibly dodgy war, this one really isn't. They're not hiding their intentions and they have NO below board activities going on in the Isles. Unlike Wyvern, who'd be a better candidate for this kind of label, but they don't even like or work with them.

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No Longbows quite willing to work with Wyrven, and the Legacy chaintoo, they have sort of a little thign going on between all three, just look at Nerva

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I've not seen that! Hmm, Wyvern are certainly dodgy while the Legacy Chain are again Light Boys. I guess even Longbow need a group they can ask to take care of problems where the 'Right' way simply won't work.

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Not so sure about the Legacy Chain being light boys. I mean, they seem to dislike villains, but the ones out in the Hollows don't exactly seem like they are nice people. I heard one remarking that they were playing along until the time was right (or similar), whatever that means.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

Could be one of the hundreds of loose plot threads floating about.

Personally I'm a bit miffed we might now find out what the coming storm is until later this year!

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<enter pedant mode>
By definition, it will be later this year, since we do not know, and they can't send someone back in time to retroactively tell us.
<exit pedant mode>

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

Could have a plot patch! Stupid Mission Architect, rah rah rah!

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Recluse has also got his hands on WMD's. The Web wasn't a new form of internet!

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What do you mean 'the Web'? Recluse is a walking Nuke in hiw own right, and coupled with the four patrons, (IC strength and least) a nuke looks rather cheap in comaprison.

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It's what he's building in Grandville. Do the Statesman Task Force some time to find out more.

It's pretty dangerous >.>

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Longbow DON'T have a crazy splinter faction

[/ QUOTE ] Not counting Yushenko's band of Longbow on Nerva, unbeknownst to the rest of Longbow.
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I've not seen that! (Wyvern and Longbow working together)

[/ QUOTE ]You've never been to Nerva Archipelago and heard the Longbow and Wyvern NPCs talking to eachother?

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It's what he's building in Grandville. Do the Statesman Task Force some time to find out more.

It's pretty dangerous >.>

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No, I just meant...nevermind -shuffles back to his corner-
Actually, need to do both of the lvl 45-50 Hero/Villain TFs

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