Hero low lvl travelling and defeat-all's
By
Assailant,
Posted on: 2009-01-10 20:01 in Suggestions and Ideas
Zone hopping.
A small pruning of missions would improve the game. They did a few improvements with changing where you need to go in Hollows and changing some contacts location in Kings Row. But I agree that we need more pruning.
Kill all missions.
I fully fully agree here. I hate those missions and it only has to happen once in a TF to utterly despite them.
We need an "force finish" mission button that lets you finish of the mission despite a clicky or a loose minion running somewhere. Put it on a time limit, don't give xp/inf for force finishing the mission either. It would safe so much frustration.
One thing I don't like is the mission description "Find xyz". You've found the item and clicked it but in order to complete the mission you still have to defeat every mob in what appears to be a sphere around the thing, even if they're on a different floor. How flamin stupid is that? If defeat nearby mobs is a mission objective then say so but lets not have to defeat things on different floors as well just because they happen to be close to the thing in another dimension!
yep, i hate the missions where you have to take an item, and then i have to kill everyone there is in the building.
i have the item, be done with it.
Not to mention the changing missions while in-mission..
...you know, where it first says find the blahblah, then when you click it, it suddenly changes into a defeat-all, some of them are even on a timer.
Level 14 now, and just got tossed around four zones again. Guess what! It's gonna be another 2 years I stay away from the blue side because this is #¤%#"¤% "#¤%"#¤% stupid REDICULOUS!
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We need an "force finish" mission button that lets you finish of the mission despite a clicky or a loose minion running somewhere. Put it on a time limit, don't give xp/inf for force finishing the mission either. It would safe so much frustration.
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There's already the "Drop this mission from the current contact" option. Just talk to the contact that gave it to you. Works once every 3 days per character and flags the mission as complete, granting you full completion reward (excluding any mobs you failed to defeat of or glowies you didn't get to interact with, of course.) Specific missions are exempt though, like badge missions.
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Kill all missions......love those missions, nothing I like more than to be running around inside a mission looking for one single generic nasty for an hour that's usually stuck in between a box and a wall....
Oh yes what fun 
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3) Never had issues with hostages and elevators. What's wrong with them?
Well Col_blitz
Sometimes when your in a team (dont think it has happened to me when i have soloed) and the mission is a lead hostage to exit or down up to another part of the mission map...
The hostage sometimes gets stuck near the elevator and vanishes.
To prevent this from happening, make certain that the one who has the npc following him/her/it is the LAST one to enter that elevator. Cause everytime you enter that elevator the npc will try to follow you etc.
I remember this happening alot when i played villains... Damn the Vimes woman 
It did also happen a few times during father time mission, but I recon the npc got confused to.. whom to follow.
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Oh, that. That's only ever happened to me on the Lord Recluse Strike Force; but then it sounded like a bug specific to that mission to me at the time, based on peoples' comments.
Do not really have a problem with defeat all missions. Beside them being boring most of the time. But I agree that the zoning issue must be dealt with. The go talk to missions need to go and some other stuff.
I'm surprised nobody came here and called you lazy for that...
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They do need a major look at the spread of stuff in Blueside. ONE monorail, that would be nice, rather than having to mess around to get somewhere.
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I can accept the need for kill all missions, story wise. However putting them on a timer or on very large maps have no justification.
An example of a good kill all mission is the, kill all snakes in casino mission on mercy isle (red side).
One thing I would add here is that the missions where you have to click a glowy, and then clear out nearby mobs, it seems to be all enemies in the same room. The worst of thoughts are of cause the CoT maps with the large multi layered cave.
There is no excuse for it that kind of mission, other then the fear of players ghosting the mission and thus getting to much xp for the effort.
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One thing I would add here is that the missions where you have to click a glowy, and then clear out nearby mobs, it seems to be all enemies in the same room. The worst of thoughts are of cause the CoT maps with the large multi layered cave.
There is no excuse for it that kind of mission, other then the fear of players ghosting the mission and thus getting to much xp for the effort.
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And then they go and increase the inf/exp you can get at the end of a mission simply by logging out for a while...as the Americans would say - go figure...
Actually the worst thought out maps are the rare but incredibly dull/painful Defeat-alls in the massive Orabenga map (you know the one, takes ages to clear it from front to back in a straightish line let alone all the mobs) or a 'rescue the more than 1 hostage' in the same map. I hate that map with a passion.
There actually is a reason why you have to kill the bad guys around the object as well as getting the object itself sometimes (I've had missions only on heroside where just getting the glowie in question was enough to complete it...and the reason you never see them redside is the following..) is because back when CoV first came out the devs had forgotten they had a stealth based AT who could complete glowie clicking missions at speed since they could go straight past all the mobs, click the glowie, mission complete XP thank you and then onto the next one. They could do it incredibly quickly at any level and so were levelling quickly just by doing click glowie missions.
The devs responded to this by making it so that you had to kill every enemy within a radius (normally just the room the glowie is in) of the glowie so the Stalker had to actually do some work to get their mission complete.
Edit: Personally with the introduction of merits I've pretty much guessed that the devs simply don't care to fix older content (loads of merits for Boreitrons TF instead of actually making a decent TF...way to go >.> though the fact the Hollows got a face lift has given me some hope but the fact that the Hollows was stated to be THE number 1 reason people simply gave up on the game at low level was more the reason for the fix than anything else.
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Edit: Personally with the introduction of merits I've pretty much guessed that the devs simply don't care to fix older content (loads of merits for Boreitrons TF instead of actually making a decent TF...way to go >.>
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Not convinced about that, TBH.
When the devs had finished setting up the merit system they had two options:
1) Spend lots of additional time rewriting various TFs (Posi, all the Shards ones, maybe Citadel) and release these plus the merit system together. That way the TFs would be nicer, and have rather lower merit rewards, but you might hold things up by an Issue or two while the TFs are being worked on.
2) Release the merit system as soon as it's ready, leaving the TFs unchanged and with a high merit reward to make up for the pain.
They've clearly gone for (2), but I don't see that that's necessarily an endorsement of the TF status quo; just a desire to get out a new reward system that's not particularly tied into TFs' actual content.
I don't mind defeat alls, to be honest. Sure, when I'm Ouroborosing a story arc on my badge-hunter, I'll compare the number of defalls in the arc to pick the one with the least, but I don't particularly mind them, as such. What does get my goat is, as several other people have said, the "Defeat All, with added conditions" missions. Okay, not so bad when the added conditions are glowie clicks, especially if it's in context (say... Go into the council base, nick the experimental whatsit doodah, and wipe the base off the face of the Earth so that no one knows it's missing), but WHAT THE HELL is the point of a "Rescue the kidnapped whosits" under a "Defeat all enemies in base"? Every time I see one of those, I groan. There is NO reason for them. None whatsoever.
What I would like to see for those missions is a new piece of tech, actually. Primary and Secondary objectives, with the option of completing the mission without having fulfilled the secondary objectives.
So, the mission is "Rescue the kidnapped models", with a secondary objective "Defeat all of the fashion victims" (so that none of the fashion victims who were outside the mission know it was you that did it). Once you have rescued all of the models, you are given a dialogue box asking if you wish to complete the mission or if you would like to complete the secondary objective. Completion of the secondary objective will grant a further (not full) bonus amount of XP/Inf/Prestige.
Further tech that could be brought in would be branching story arcs, which would then adjust future missions in the arc depending on completed secondary objectives earlier on in the arc.
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Well I do hold out hope that the many boring TFs are changed now that they know (and have known for quite some time) their original idea of people running TFs (as a group over several play sessions) is and never was true for most people.
Citadel isn't too bad...it can be completed quite quickly (hour, hour and a half max) the only bad thing about it is that it's all Council all the time which to be fair is the entire focus of the TF.
Anyway I can see being forced to zone god-knows how many times as off putting for a newbie but then I remember playing WoW and being told to go talk to some dude who was on the otherside of the zone and I had to run there which took 10-15 minutes of boring running only to be told to go deliver something back to the original contact and run all the way back.
Which is much longer than it gets to take a tram to the zone and get to your contact from one zone on the same tram line.
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The hostages and elevator bug is really annoying. It can happen almost always when youre in a team or as MM. For some reason the chance of it happening faster with the Recluse Strike Force is bigger. I have even seen the hostages walk on air and through buildings there. This is going on for ages now and is a reason several RSF teams quitted.
The defeat all problem is directly based on the fact the engine makes it possible to fall or walk inside walls. Only a new engine that makes toons vs. map really solid in all aspects will solve this bug.
Some missions are specificly build to make you travel the whole world it seems. The cape mission hero side is ridiculus easy compaired to villain side but the travelling is simply crazy. I just did it again on my blaster (who can fly). From memory... Atlas - Galaxy - Skyway - Independence Port - Talos and aside from Galaxy they are all miles away. Especially IP... that one is on the other side of the map.
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Actually the worst thought out maps are the rare but incredibly dull/painful Defeat-alls in the massive Orabenga map (you know the one, takes ages to clear it from front to back in a straightish line let alone all the mobs) or a 'rescue the more than 1 hostage' in the same map. I hate that map with a passion.
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I dislike all the cave maps to be honest. They're just so awkward to navigate. You get stuck on every tiny bit of scenery so if someone puts speed boost on you, you're forever bouncing all over the place. On the Orabanga maps, if those damn portals would actually put all the people who went through them in the same place it really would help tremendously. I've lost count of the number of times the team has been split into 4 by those stupid portals. As for that huge cavernous multi level room of frustration you get on a lot of CoT missions...well...
Still the best game around though, as far as I'm concerned anyway...
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We need an "force finish" mission button that lets you finish of the mission despite a clicky or a loose minion running somewhere. Put it on a time limit, don't give xp/inf for force finishing the mission either. It would safe so much frustration.
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There's already the "Drop this mission from the current contact" option. Just talk to the contact that gave it to you. Works once every 3 days per character and flags the mission as complete, granting you full completion reward (excluding any mobs you failed to defeat of or glowies you didn't get to interact with, of course.) Specific missions are exempt though, like badge missions.
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I know and guess what I use that option often enough. However imagine yourself having used up that option. Only to have to wait 3 days before you can finish the mission with the stuck mob. OR even worse. You are in one of the last missions in a tf and there is that missing mob?
A game should be about fun. Not about being frustrated and this frustrates me. So yes I want a lets get this over with button.
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I know and guess what I use that option often enough. However imagine yourself having used up that option. Only to have to wait 3 days before you can finish the mission with the stuck mob. OR even worse. You are in one of the last missions in a tf and there is that missing mob?
A game should be about fun. Not about being frustrated and this frustrates me. So yes I want a lets get this over with button.
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Sounds like a Win button to me.
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I know and guess what I use that option often enough. However imagine yourself having used up that option. Only to have to wait 3 days before you can finish the mission with the stuck mob. OR even worse. You are in one of the last missions in a tf and there is that missing mob?
A game should be about fun. Not about being frustrated and this frustrates me. So yes I want a lets get this over with button.
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Sounds like a Win button to me.
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I can see that it could be implemented that way but it is by no means my intention to make it a win button. Therefore it should offer no rewards (no xp/inf, no merits, no badges) except for the simple fact that the mission is done and you can move on doing more interesting stuff then looking for a minion lost somewhere in that big CoT map.
Maybe Kill alls could be made Kill 99%s that way the odd mob you've missed as they are stuck in a wall could be much less annoying?
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Maybe Kill alls could be made Kill 99%s that way the odd mob you've missed as they are stuck in a wall could be much less annoying?
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That would work for me. Or perhaps a special command such as /stuck that would work only when almost every minion has been defeated
Most of you may know me as a redside only, but I recently returned to the hero side after basically staying away for two years. Unfortunately several of the reasons I stay redside are still there and it's amazing to me nothing's been done about it:
I now have two alts running, one fire/rad powerteam'er that's basically without problems, and another alt I basically solo with. With the solo one I'm trying to do a lot of story arcs since that's what I really liked about heroes, but find that I still hate actually doing it:
1. From level one to level 14 I have now changed zone more than 100 times. Yes, not kidding, I've kept track of it. 64 of those times I've changed zone due to the games and the missions, being ordered around in a single arc to more than 6 zone swaps. THIS IS SILLY!
Yes, in the new content that problem is pretty much gone, later on you can stay in themed zones etc and ouroboros, bases etc helps a bit, but think of it like this:
You're a new player in a game that's new to you, you wanna get some experience and not make a fool of yourself so you start of soloing quite a lot. You end up dead, dead and more dead because you don't know how to get around, ending up back in the hospital to do that long jumping/flying once again - if you've learned that you can get a jetpack/jumppack that is. Once again, these story arcs and all go-talk-to assignments need some thinking.
This was a major part for going and staying redside for me, I was going nuts on my old computer zoning and running all over IP, skyway etc over and over again just to talk-to some dude/dudette. Sure, I don't RP but I seriously doubt that's a good argument to have that much insane travelling at low levels. Some, yes, to get to know the game, but it's way silly still.
Personally, f'coz I know the game, but I'm surprised how incredibly annoyed I got by it. I keep logging off because I just can't stand it. (I'm also still lvl 20 in Lotro due to the same issue, been in that game since beta, rofl)
2. Defeat-all: I'm getting surprised as I level villains when I find these, because it was another major part to leave blueside. Unfortunately they're still there in huuuge quantities and not rarely in huge maps where someone is hiding somewhere or worse, stuck in a wall.
The "hidden last minion standing" issue needs a smart fix. Yes, you can auto-complete, yes you can reset mission, but spending near 45 minutes slowly solo-"defeating" everything on the map in a timed mission won't make you go out and reset it and it happens way too often, so auto-complete isn't really a fix.
3. Hostages and elevators. Sigh... Really a bug, but can we agree to not put hostages etc in maps with portals, elevators etc?