Fix PVP for the Casual PVPer. What's your remedy?
By
Assailant,
Posted on: 2008-12-29 18:00 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It seems to me that the casual players, those that *might* pvp occasionally for fun are put off by
1: Those with certain pvp powersets
2: Those with uber builds
3: Those with lots of practice
Dominating the zones.
I13 was trying to level out the playing field, which imho went horribly wrong.
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To be precise, the goal of the changes in I13 was to de-emphasise the first two of those items listed.
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First of all seriously the developers think that i13 solved the certain powersets issue?The people that were running around with "certain" powersets in their majority had 1 of every possible FoTM have the developers considered that?I was in top ranked PvP SG in EU with 8 members tops.Between us we shared a total of nearly 60-70 yes you heard me 60-70 level 50's in the majority fully tricked out with IO's/Prolly even more than that considering 2 of our members shared almost 60 level 50's between them.We had every possible combo for arena/zonal heroes and villains side.You think we were the only ones?US side the same deal was going on with people owning multiple accounts and powerleveling in 26 hours played toons.I13 would stop certain powersets?Of course not.You cannot avoid FoTM's but FoTM's without skill mean nothing.There is countless examples of people with FoTM's and 1billion builds getting owned by SO's or running to the boat in WB like little schoolgirls.
Uber builds without players that know how to handle them mean nothing really.Also if the purpose was to avoid uber builds to exist then IO's shouldnt have been introduced in first place and taking it a step further ED shouldnt have been there as well considering we were fed some myth that ED was introduced in order to gives us back pre-ED power through invientions and rewarding our efforts and time spent to perfect toons.From what i experienced in the short term test drive i had with i13 the developers managed to just switch the FoTM's around from ranged to melee and simply change the playstyle of some specific playstyles.Noone will want blasters in teams everyone will want stalkers now and well melee will be king.Funny from one extreme to the other.26 hours later all pvpers left will have the new fotms up and running,tricking out stalkers villain side through the SG/VG bases that are linked bug with hero market IO's that are cheaper and there u go.Same thing different archetypes.
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The third, assuming that practise brings skill, isn't as huge an issue. Anyone with a genuine interest in PvP (that includes 'casual' PvPers) should not be scared off by being beaten by player skill. Being beaten by a specialised niche build that saps fun (eg getting perma-dommed and being unable to do much of anything until you die) is far more likely to cause a prospective PvP player to not play.
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And what happen to the part where all this game was supposed to be balanced around teamplay?When suddenly the empath walked in and saved the day against perma dom?I guess it was better to nerf the dominator the empath the dps and everyone else for the sake of the person entering the zone for the first time and didnt know what was going on instead of providing resources as rewards through trying to increase your own personal skill.
It was of course very hard to introduce a merit system for pvp with pvp IO's that worked only in PvP and were acquired only through PvP and instead creating this failure from ground up was easier and more effective.
TG, I think you've made some reasonable points in most of your posts.
You know PVP far better than I, and I applaud that, but you have kind of missed the point of this thread. This thread is aimed at the "casual" PVPer, getting those who have (or would like) limited experience of PVPing.
You don't fit in that category. You're hard core. PVP seems to be your only interest in CoX (which I dont' see as a problem btw) but your evangelising and solution for every problem, perceived and real, may be scaring those more timid who don't understand the mechanics of PVP away.
I believe that for PVP to thrive and survive in CoX it needs to be embraced by the majority of players as being "doable" (not to be confused with winable) and most of all FUN but I'm concerned that your very passion for it is daunting to the less experienced player - which in turn means they will be less inclined to comment.
I am convinced that PVP in CoX is not broken beyond repair - but sadly it's close. What I can say is that from my days at Evo when I kicked off Friday Night Fight Club - which Prox took and ran with, it was always well attended, and people generally considered it to be a lot of fun - many of them very inexperienced.
FNFC isn't running any longer sadly but one observation I can make is that very few people I'd consider to be dedicated PVPers made regular showings, but when they did they got as good as they gave. The biggest difference I can glean from that is that being Arena PVP, it was managed and controlled and set to the relevant level - often we'd have as much fun playing level 5s as we would lvl 50s.
I can also say that we tried some zone PVP but on the few occasions that I attempted it we generally got ganked by people with a lot more experience, and skill than most of us casuals, and probably better builds.
Maybe the hard core PVPer doesn't have the love for CoX that they once did, but that isn't where the sub base is.
Thelonious Monk
Get good PvE game.
Add poor implementation of PvP
Spend too much time fixing PvE game so that PvP works.
Result a game where not enough is done to make the PvE experience perfect and a poorly implemented PvP system.
You cannot fix PvP in CoH1, even if you remove all the chnages in i13 and return to i12 values, PvP still isn't working as well as it should, yes perhaps more people like PvP with the old values, but it doesn't fix the underlying issues that its very difficult to do PvP without a good build.
CoH is a game that is aimed at the casual gamer, the old and indeed new implementation of PvP is not easily accessible to that same casual gamer. Until it is then PvP isn't going to be right and the devs will spend more time trying to make it fit that bill.
Only solution is to start from scratch and build a PvE/P game from the ground up. Whether or not that will happen is anyones guess, personally I think it will come with CoH2 whenever that arrives.
The sub base (main player base) just aint interested in PvP, your FNFC were great or the one i attended was, but out of all those people how many have embraced this new version of pvp?
It just gauls me that in a game this old with such glaring gaps in things as no villain sf from 40-45, they decided to waste this much time effort and money on something that was obviously not going to be popular from the beta.
They ignored what was asked for then, pushed this through and now its failed.
Sadly this lot wont ever admit that, and will no doubt continue to waste more money messing about with it, which is a shame.
PvP just aint going to ever be popular in this game, and i say that as someone who loved a bit of pvp, i wasnt any good at it, but i loved it.
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I believe that for PVP to thrive and survive in CoX it needs to be embraced by the majority of players as being "doable" (not to be confused with winable) and most of all FUN
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Righto i understand what u mean.
So in a small list without sidetracking here is my list of what i believe would make pvp more accessible.
- Balancing around teams and not solo
- Retain IO's but make sets for every category with pvp stats and accessible only through PvP.
-Keep current IO's without bonuses in PvP zones and only sets to provide bonuses should be gained through pvp
- Provide mini games in mini zones and arenas with rewards
- Shut down all comms between heroes and villains even emotes in pvp zones.
- Allow zonal balance buffs based on numbers.10 heroes 5 villains in zones should provide hp and damage buff to villains thus keeping scales equal at all times in zones.
- Restore mobility in pvp,turn some heals into hots instead of spikes.
- Give melee gap closing abilites with unresistable effects
- Allow dual builds to use first build enhancements.
Should be a good place to start.
Personally, I think to entice people into PvP you need a more level playing feild rather than a more unbalanced one. I know thats a bitter pill for hardcore PvPers who have spent biliions on a great build to swallow, but there it is.
of course, NCSoft may take the veiw that forcing people into grinding for uberness is good from a business perspective.
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As SR scrappers have a click mez protection that only takes 2 recharge to make perma I'd think your statement is incorrect.
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That and Shields are just the 'odd' of the dev. Why make a mezz protector a clicky, while all others have toggles? Afaik the only 2 clickies that are possible perma with only their own slotting, unlike hasten or such. (or boostrange also, not sure).
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Sadly the vast proportion of WoW isn't even an MMO IMO, you are actively discouraged from grouping, both by insanely low drop rates and losing XP in small teams. With no in game mechanic to balance out disparate teams (SK is the best game mechanic I have ever seen). Until you hit what ever the cap is this year and start gearing up its very hard to find a good team most of the time. CoH wins hands down over that IMO.
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We're talking PvP here, personal experience in lvling is not really relevant. WoW wins hands down by far if we're talking about PvP, specialy if you are on a pvp-server. Not only arena/bg but also during your lvling (be it solo or grouped). 90% of the time here you never encounter anyone, since you are in your 'own private map', while in WoW most of the time you are part of the big world.
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Roll back to i12 PvP and promote the use of the merit system (e.g increase the amount of merits for story arcs etc) and I think you will find better balance than this game has had so far. If this happens then its a win for everyone.
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That would make it even worse. You can 'forced farming', people are 'forced' to go in to a PvP enviroment they really dont like just because there is a cake out there.
Then again, pretty much everything 'rewardfull' is already been put by the devs in the box 'farming'. So the problem lies deeper then plain some balance within PvP to even make this game viable into the future. Ironic many say GW isnt a MMo since you never see others while doing missions, but what is CoH different to that?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Post deleted by GhostRaptor
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Get good PvE game.
Add poor implementation of PvP
Spend too much time fixing PvE game so that PvP works.
Result a game where not enough is done to make the PvE experience perfect and a poorly implemented PvP system.
You cannot fix PvP in CoH1, even if you remove all the chnages in i13 and return to i12 values, PvP still isn't working as well as it should, yes perhaps more people like PvP with the old values, but it doesn't fix the underlying issues that its very difficult to do PvP without a good build.
CoH is a game that is aimed at the casual gamer, the old and indeed new implementation of PvP is not easily accessible to that same casual gamer. Until it is then PvP isn't going to be right and the devs will spend more time trying to make it fit that bill.
Only solution is to start from scratch and build a PvE/P game from the ground up. Whether or not that will happen is anyones guess, personally I think it will come with CoH2 whenever that arrives.
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This.
PvP in CoX simply isn't going to be right unless the entire rules set for the game is rebuilt from the ground up so that there is no separate rules sets for PvE and PvP. All i13 did was twist the square peg to try and refit it into a round hole.
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Personally, I think to entice people into PvP you need a more level playing feild rather than a more unbalanced one. I know thats a bitter pill for hardcore PvPers who have spent biliions on a great build to swallow, but there it is.
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Well playing on an even field i agree is what casuals might look for.On the other hand there needs to be a sense of progression through PvP.The mentality of a PvPer in terms of progression is not different than someone who PvE's.You need to be given the sense of progression,reward for efforts and the feel that yes all that you do helps your character. And this is the tricky part really where the companies make or break PvP.CoX has done the everyone on a level field thing.Pre I9 everyone was on level field.The situation from my experience was not better.In fact there was no level 50 PvP pre i9 i spent most of time battling it out in Bloody Bay,Sirens and sometimes Warburg.Imo there have to be other ways for casual pvpers even hardcore ones to acquire IO's besides farming.Could be a merit system similar to PvE where u gain merits uppon completing the zonal events.That would give life to RV/WB/Sirens/BB even.Although imo those mini games are designed all wrong due to their heavy PvE nature.Also allow an auto balance system in the zones when 10 heroes 5 villains in the zone would mean villains gain 100% hp and damage.Tips the scales nicely and allows for battles to go on even with 1vs10 where the 1 person is buffed lets say 1000% to AV proportions and has an epic fight instead of getting ganked.
Much more fun in my opinion much more effective and well its doable cause bits and parts exist in other games as well so is not something unfeasible.
I would be 100% ok with such a rebuilt even if it meant that all my IO's would be worthless for PvP or totally scrapped from my character because it would mean more people in PvP zones and more fun at all times with more choices.
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of course, NCSoft may take the veiw that forcing people into grinding for uberness is good from a business perspective.
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To be really honest,CoX has turned into way too much grind.the road from 1-50 compared to other games if u take the normal way is much slower ( i aint talking powerlevel cause we are talking casual players here).The IO's story is something else and the uncontrolled market just makes it even worse.The grind for IO's i am sorry to say but atm is worse than WoW or WAR epic items.Took me a week of chilled gameplay with friends to fully epic a hunter in WoW while in CoX in 1 week a casual player can barely acquire half the IO's needed for a fully tricked level 50 toon.Now merits system might have changed that and if thats the case please let me know since i aint had some hands on with that system.
I don't believe in quick fixes for PvP. You need to get things aesthetically correct and balanced at the same time and so there are no real quick fixes.
There is only making things a little more accessible until fixes come over time. With such deep end, all at once, changes, I would of wanted more PvP zones for the I12 way to carry on whilst in the current PvE/PvP zones the players can become more accustomed by most of the changes.
Fixing PvP is both a mammoth and nightmare task if you ask me. Few people could fill the shoes to achieve it. I doubt any of those complaining could achieve it. I think its not just AT by AT thing but powerset by powerset.
A lot of people don't farm, and casually play alts so leveling up is slow, getting to a decent build takes forever. It's better if they have something accessible I wouldn't argue but a place for PvPers who've worked for their builds is still needed.
I don't see the implementation as a complete fail. More so if people who are thinking selfishly and who have shown lack of individual respect leave. But if it was me only some of what's been implemented; would of been, for now to maybe forever. This is because dual builds, which will take time for people to get into..I mean a long came the xmas event, (then comes this and then that), and earning stuff does take "a long while" for some but dual builds addressed a lot as what's concept or good in PvE may not be in PvP.
I would seriously lower the merit costs on most things and increase the base salvage drops, push things along abit or see full pvp zones in 20** on the one and only server left running for posterity.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I don't see the implementation as a complete fail. More so if people who are thinking selfishly and who have shown lack of individual respect leave.
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Wow!So anyone that left the game because they judged that i13 in regards to pvp changes was an utter failure are selfish and have no individual respect?Because you know some of us been sitting in the back waiting for some PvP changes since pvp was introduced without shoving it down anyones throats and just waited and waited and simply organised things ourselves.Its selfish to leave after 7-8 issues of asking some change and when the change comes to be a hard slap in the face and obvious letter of eviction from the game?The people that left did so because they had some self respect and was about time to be selfish.
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I would seriously lower the merit costs
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Merits shouldnt come from pve when it comes to PvP.People wanna get pvp merits to get pvp items,create pvp merits so people have a purpose in the zones and the zones are used for once how they are supposed to be used.
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WoW's casual play will never match up to CoH's so long as the population of WoW servers swaggers about in Raid gear crowing about the latest stunning item they got from some instance. Casual gamers cannot get this stuff, because they don't have an couple of hours to kill doing raids.
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Sadly the vast proportion of WoW isn't even an MMO IMO, you are actively discouraged from grouping, both by insanely low drop rates and losing XP in small teams. With no in game mechanic to balance out disparate teams (SK is the best game mechanic I have ever seen). Until you hit what ever the cap is this year and start gearing up its very hard to find a good team most of the time. CoH wins hands down over that IMO.
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAH. What a bunch of [censored]. You probably played WoW in 2005 and never touched it again.
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Say that to my level 75 Hunter and level 67 Death Knight... hell try playing the game yourself and it would be evident to you that WoW is a single player until you hit the cap with every game mechanic aimed at grouping hideously borked. Try doing 90% of the quests in a small team, a dynamic that works well in CoH, in WoW a)You are grinding in the open so other teams can kill the same mobs, b)Even when you kill the mob the drop rate isn't often 100% and c)Even if it is a 100% drop rate its really unlikely that the drop will drop for every member of the team. I duo a lot in CoH, it does slow the levelling down a bit. In WoW duoing means half XP, that is I get half what I would get in Solo play, which is stupid for a MMO.
Even forcing Group quests onto you just means you leave them for a few levels and come back when you're a higher level. Only dungeon quests encourage teaming and because so much of the WoW population knows zero about effective teams the PuGs on WoW makes CoH PuGs (even the worst) look like laugh a minute joy fests.
As for the PvP, I loved PvP in WoW right up to release of TBC, since then I haven't got round to doing any BGs and only a small amount of World PvP in Northrend, which I have enjoyed. When I hit 80 I don't doubt I will do some more PvP especially as my guild does Raid and PvP gear helps gear up for end game instances. Plus getting tokens for a Black Mechano Strider is a hell of a lot easier than grinding Rune Cloth. 
Edit:
To qualify my lack of PvP since TBC its like this: I didn't hit 60 till after the TBC release, I then played until I had hit 70 without PvPing and started raiding with my guild, but was getting bored of the game so stopped playing. I came back once LK had come out and have been mainly levelling since then. I don't much enjoy WSG I'm tactical player and WSG is more about speed. I've played IRO 100 Arathi Basin matches and in all but a few the Horde killed us... still a lot of fun. 
As for AV I'd only just hit the required level when TBC came out so never experienced it.
For this game, CoH, the easiest and IMO best option is to throw out PvP and start from scratch and use lessons learned from this and other games to make it right. PvP in CoH cannot IMO be fixed, its too broken. A fresh start is a must. And from the start have tangible rewards throughout the PvP progression, I'm less interested in built in match systems, but having a CM who can initiate a leader board or ladder each year to find the best PvPers would be interesting if not essential.
So yes I play WoW, I have an active subscription now. I have had a few long breaks its true, but then I have had long breaks from CoH also. I started playing with EU launch of CoH (played in EU beta too), yet I'm only upto 24 months or something. I forget how many months I have actually been playing WoW, and my longest break was something like nine months (great fro earning rested XP though ).
There are two different areas for change in CoH's PvP. There is the PvP mechanics as such -- the nitty gritty of hit-points and mez resistance and all that jazz -- and there's the PvP infrastructure: the arenas, PvP zones and their layout, rewards, scoring, the context of the fights and all those blues.
The first is important, sure, but primarily for the hardcore PvPers. For casual PvPers the second is really the more important, because the mechanics only determine how you win or lose -- the infrastructure determines how easy it is to have <i>fun</i> winning or losing.
Compare it to board-games: for <i>casual</i> players it's less important that the rules are exact, encompassing and allows for greath depth, than it is that the game can be picked up and played quickly and easily and doesn't involve a lot of paperwork to keep track of the scores.
That's not to say you can't have both -- chess is a great example of a game that's quick to pick up and play, and yet allows for great depth and strategy -- just that we shouldn't focus overmuch on the mechanics when talking about casual players, as that's not the more important for them.
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To be really honest,CoX has turned into way too much grind.the road from 1-50 compared to other games if u take the normal way is much slower ( i aint talking powerlevel cause we are talking casual players here).The IO's story is something else and the uncontrolled market just makes it even worse.The grind for IO's i am sorry to say but atm is worse than WoW or WAR epic items.Took me a week of chilled gameplay with friends to fully epic a hunter in WoW while in CoX in 1 week a casual player can barely acquire half the IO's needed for a fully tricked level 50 toon.Now merits system might have changed that and if thats the case please let me know since i aint had some hands on with that system.
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This made me laugh. Thanks. Grind and CoH, I bet you never played a game where grind means something. In my days playing (insert boring story about uber grindness of a mmorpg with special sauce). Leveling up is way way to easy in this game. Sure getting the uber IO's will take some time (unless your friends cash you up) but then again you don't need them. That is one of the things they tried to fix with the PvP thing.
Lets not make the accomplishment of hitting 50 mean even less ok?
PPl have already said all this, but still... here's my thoughts:
I don't pvp and I don't really wanna pvp because it's 99% solo and utterly pointless. Still I do get a HUGE kick out of massive pvp battles (16+ players) so what would it take for me and other casual pvp'ers to go to the zones more often?
1. PVP must be rewarded. Yes, Shivans and nukes are rewards, but not for pvp'ing. As I see it, Sirens is the only useful pvp place and there's rarely enough people on defiant there for it to be useful. So give good xp, inf or something for it. It's currently exploitable since there's not enough people in the zones but if it was successful there'd be enough people to gank you if you try to exploit it.
2. This IS a team based game. Apparently some people do enjoy one on one arena fights, but for me pvp is all about the zones and all out fights. The I13 balancing was therefore pointless and seem to have killed the zones totally.
3. If NC means bussiness, get the community coordinators to hold regular zone invasions like the one in Sirens years ago when we had 3 instances of sirens. If held on a regular time the community is likely to take care of it themselves after a few runs. I didn'd care much for Bridger but he made content where there where none and that's worth a thumbs up.
4. Don't ever expect pvp to be balanced or brilliant since it was put in after the game. Making a good pvp game is near to impossible, putting it in after is bound to fail, but can still be fun.
As for the old pvp, it was solo this, solo that and mindnumbingly boring on any alt I had. I either died in a few seconds on non-pvp builds, ended up chasing people running or bunny-jumping or even worse: found an opponent balanced against my build and fought for 15 minutes hitting my one-two-three powers over and over again. That way one could argue the new pvp might be better, but again I fail to see the point of soloing a MMO, doesn't matter if it's PVE, PVP or "RvR"
Introducing the Rikti playable faction would give a fun faction-vs-faction-vs-faction scenario though.
Happy new year folks. Don't drink too much and be careful with the fireworks (Yeah, thinking about YOU fireblappers)
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Say that to my level 75 Hunter and level 67 Death Knight... hell try playing the game yourself and it would be evident to you that WoW is a single player until you hit the cap with every game mechanic aimed at grouping hideously borked. Try doing 90% of the quests in a small team, a dynamic that works well in CoH, in WoW a)You are grinding in the open so other teams can kill the same mobs, b)Even when you kill the mob the drop rate isn't often 100% and c)Even if it is a 100% drop rate its really unlikely that the drop will drop for every member of the team. I duo a lot in CoH, it does slow the levelling down a bit. In WoW duoing means half XP, that is I get half what I would get in Solo play, which is stupid for a MMO.
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I did 80 with my hunter in 9 /played days. By then, i did nearly all instances to be done from RFC upto HoL. Few done with the guild, most done with Pug's. Pretty sure you were just on a old server, where the majority is 80 or the lowers are all helped by their guild.
Being in the same world, same mobs, same people gives what an MMO is. All in 1 huge virtual world. Unlike what CoH became, specialy on EU. On US there are sewerhunts, or who can remember the old perez park groups? Fighting between others, interact, not doing your 'own little box' city of solo. And it aint different in any game, ok GW excluded atm (or London for that mather, anyway), it is CoH getting less 'MMOish' rather then others become 'more grindish'.
You can get nice rewards in PvP WoW, gear, exp, mounts etc, good rewards that help your character but also require you to actualy engange into PvP (along with reputation). Only some stupid merits as 'playerkill' reward will only make it worse, yet another farm place outside the majority only go into the pvp zone just to get the nuke or shivan (for their TF farming - irony valore), with NO pvp interaction at all. Face it, this game became too small to make a 60vs60 pvp or sortlike (upto 125vs125 in cabal), WoW aint the best MMO (personaly) out there, but at least they made a easy-step-up PvP enviroment where everyone can or will go dispite their gear, 'slotting' or skill.
Now, imho, at the moment this whole game is about 1 thing only, IO's. 'it is too easy', 'you n00b cant finish? farm IO more', 'lolorz i pwn i solo AV!!' (generalised abit, i know). PvP wont make any difference in this system if you add merit rewards to it.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Sorry I was trying to make it clear to the troll I replied to that I still play WoW and know how it works, not how 'leet' I am at it...
I play WoW because I enjoy the game, just as I play CoH because I enjoy the game. Hit 75 a week or so ago and have spent most of he intervening week playing around old world instances, doinga bit of PvP, and generally enjoying myself. Something I take from CoH to WoW is its not how fast I get to the cap its how much I enjoy the journey.
And for the whole MMO thing or lack of it, the WoW world is far better populated because mostly you aren't in instances. But its much harder to play with a friend or two if you want to get anywhere you solo, which IMO is the reverse of what a MMO should be doing. Was questing in Zul-Drak last night and there must have been five or six other people who were doing the same quests, but none were in teams they were all solo and uninterested in teams (I asked), because due to the way the looting/drops system works its faster and easier for the most part to solo.
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I don't see the implementation as a complete fail. More so if people who are thinking selfishly and who have shown lack of individual respect leave.
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Wow!So anyone that left the game because they judged that i13 in regards to pvp changes was an utter failure are selfish and have no individual respect?Because you know some of us been sitting in the back waiting for some PvP changes since pvp was introduced without shoving it down anyones throats and just waited and waited and simply organised things ourselves.Its selfish to leave after 7-8 issues of asking some change and when the change comes to be a hard slap in the face and obvious letter of eviction from the game?The people that left did so because they had some self respect and was about time to be selfish.
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You have a problem with your reading and writing skills. Firstly I did not suggest anyone. Secondly don't bother reading my posts as you run off on some tangent with how you see things.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Step 1: Make it so that when you log into an arena terminal, it loads Warhammer, as it has possibly the only decently balanced and pick-up-and-play PVP system i've seen.
Step 2: ???
step 3: profit (and being sued for said profit by the makers of WAR)
In all seriousness, as a non-PVPer, the most fun i had PVPing was in WAR.
Classes seem to have a role in battles, pvp has an objective beyond "killing newbs".
The whole thing seems to be balanced well, and you have to use tactics to win.
If you take part in a pvp scenario and DONT get atleast 1 kill to your name, you must be REALLY bad.
Doing things in PVP felt like you where actualy acomplishing something.
The problem I have with PvP is not to do with the mechanics but rather the motivation behind it. The only motivation appears to be that of having a harder challenge or plain just beating people.
I don't PvP so I don't understand or even know any pvp tactics. As far as my untrained eye can see it appears to be a case of jump around like a demented tigger and hit someone repeatedly until either he or you are dead. This doesn't appeal to me.
What would appeal to me is this; a better objective than just killing/arresting people. A capture the flag type game is what is currently appealing to me. Perhaps you have two teams (or even two SG's) who each have a base on their own instanced map (would have to be a big map though). In each base there is a power switch which would lower the bass shields and allow the orbital ray to destroy the base. Access to the orbital ray's controls are restricted until one or more teams defences are down. The defences automatically restart after a short period of time.
Your team has to guard your base while attempting to take down your opponents defenses. Should your defences be taken down do you try and stall your opponent preventing them from getting to the controls in time or do you split the team and attempt to destroy their base while all their focus is away from defence?
Ok this idea is hideously complicated and not well thought out having been spouted from the top of my head but it gives an idea of something I would rather do than just hit people... at least in PvE there is a story and a reason to hit people!
Would be nice to hit people consistently instead of getting 'Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss' most of the time. (This both happens with my Warshade with 2 Acc SOs in each attack and a 9% ToHit buff from Nova Form, and my Brute with 3 Acc IOs in each attack)
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The problem I have with PvP is not to do with the mechanics but rather the motivation behind it.
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"And it's one, two, three,
what are we fighting for?
Don't care, I cannot recall,
next stop is Siren's Call.
Woohoo, we're all gonna die."
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So perma anything isn't a design problem, just certain things?
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If it can be done with a couple of enhancements, then the devs must be ok with it
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork