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Bending canon slightly is alright. For example, Blitz and the Unbroken Column (which I am a part of too) isnt really official canon, but its there, and fun.
I think the general thing that can be applied is 'if its god-moding, its bad'. For example, vampires that are suddenly immune to absolutely everything. I ran into TWO in Pocket D in one night, and a couple more dimensional/demonic undead beasties. My priest, who is a human, armed with a gun, lots of holy ammunition and basic skills with holy flame, basically got bounced off the walls, as 'Oh look we're immune to holy light too and holy bullets dont work either.'
/rant. Anyways, with canon as with most other things. Make it fairly sensible, dont drop one on other people and try to make it realistic.
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You're also forgetting that a lot of vampires state that the religious aspect is just superstition, because in order for it to affect them, it would have to actually be holy, rather than (in their eyes) just crazy men with 'special' water.
Does holy water and crucifixes really have power over undead or was it just a way of making the frightened and gulliable see them as powerful?
This is of course all a point of view in roleplaying but is just as valid as your own, so if that starts happening, just invite them to a team and talk with them OOC about it. If they really are godmodding, then you'll know as soon as you start talking OOC with them.
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I use the Bram Stoker's Dracula way to describe the weaknesses and powers of my Vampire Queen. Therefore she can walk in daylight... climb walls... turn into smoke... even command lower creatures.
As of weaknesses to holy stuff... That holds two sides... Fist the vampire has to see it as holy. He/she has to acknowledge the god as being there. In Liz her case the Katholic?Christen god excist as she was of that faith before she died / turned to demon gods. As is the case for Dracula himself. Second... there is a lot of faith that has to be put behind the user of such weapons. If the user is not believing... Him holding up a cross is not going to do much then annoy terribly.
Some are using bloodline and some keep the origin of Anne Ryce. Most of these vampire back grounds / origins can be combined though.
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
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Actually Horizon does ding IC. Her bracers absorb a little knowledge and experience from people she fights (Knowledgfe being power after all!) and give off an audible dinging sound when they've pieced together enough to weave and pass a new enchantment to Horizon's body.
A lot of effort just to make some bad puns, but worth it!
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For at least my two main RP toons that is not possible.... As both are immortal and should came to Paragon already at their current (lvl 50) power levels. So the levelling while levelling up was just ignored IC.
The others ... gainiong trust and new info on how to be a hero can be tought by any experienced old hero. So Back Alley Brawler can actually teach me how to be a better hero. Even if I am a fire blaster.
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
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Well, let's set the record straight, shall we?
Jessica in my mind is a powerful mage.
In play she's about average with a lot of confidence. This play is RP/plot, btw, not just ingame missions.
She has a lot o behind the scenes resources, meaning she can do what ever is needed and or entertaining, with enough time to research and such.
She's a real believer of "magic is what you make it, not what I make it" so when handling a curse or spell or what ever, there's plenty of possibilities and angles and stuff.
There is NO flicking fingers to fix stuff, unless it's desired and I find it plausible (the latter part about as unlikely as the former)
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Dr Strange in other words?
Basically battling limitless powered entities from beyond mortal ken in his own series?
Not wanting to attract said things to Earth by using that kind of level of power, for Earthly matters?
But without the awesome stache
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Owner and creator of the biggest Dr. Strange site here (www.drstrange.nl) And been for years now I can tell you thet although he can do almost everything... All has a price. And that in most cases his enemies are scaled to hi power levels. Something that is common in comics.
For instance...
Spider-Man vs. Dormammu... Spidey is dead in the water alone
Dr. Strange vs. Green Goblin... usually the Goblin has no chance
What often happens in these cases is the use of human problems and descisions. Stories can be twisted that Spidey finds an magical artifact or weakness to stop Dormammu or that the Green Goblin tricks Dr. Strange and bind his hands and mouth so spells are not possible.
The best magic manipulator only has low magic abilities without invoking powerful deities. The last will need the use of hands (for movements and postures) and voice (for incantations). The more powerfull spells need complete rituals.Dr. Strange was able to put down Galactus with one spell. But that spell was researched for hours before he ever arrived to the scene.
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
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For at least my two main RP toons that is not possible.... As both are immortal and should came to Paragon already at their current (lvl 50) power levels. So the levelling while levelling up was just ignored IC.
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I usually ignore it IC too, just Horizon's got a slightly jokey explanation for it that quickly explains the main focus of her powers. It's all about the bracers!
And yet, levelling has been integral to Nitoichi. Her drive to get to level 35 and be allowed into Vanguard has been key to her character. Her subsequent search for something to give her life meaning after getting where she wanted to has caused almost all her current problems.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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I usually ignore it IC too, just Horizon's got a slightly jokey explanation for it that quickly explains the main focus of her powers. It's all about the bracers!
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I thought it was all about the brassiers?
@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity
If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.
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I use the Bram Stoker's Dracula way to describe the weaknesses and powers of my Vampire Queen. Therefore she can walk in daylight... climb walls... turn into smoke... even command lower creatures.
As of weaknesses to holy stuff... That holds two sides... Fist the vampire has to see it as holy. He/she has to acknowledge the god as being there. In Liz her case the Katholic?Christen god excist as she was of that faith before she died / turned to demon gods. As is the case for Dracula himself. Second... there is a lot of faith that has to be put behind the user of such weapons. If the user is not believing... Him holding up a cross is not going to do much then annoy terribly.
Some are using bloodline and some keep the origin of Anne Ryce. Most of these vampire back grounds / origins can be combined though.
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I've noticed that you do already combine many of these origins under the bloodline idea. Your Council of X consists of various founders of bloodlines.
The bloodline meta-meme is the most efficient way of dealing with vampires. Pretty much any origin can be slotted right in. Be it Stokers vampires, Anne Rice's, even White Wolf's can be accommodated. Player created vampires like mine are probably the easiest to work around. I simply made up my own bloodline, complete with idiosyncratic traits, with my character as its founder.
I suppose the golden rule with vampires is that all vampiric bloodlines emerged independently. This way there is no single progenitor of vampires. Now, my character is a little bit cheeky in that respect because I have him as the founder of the first bloodline. He is the first vampire, but he is not the ancestor of all vampires, so think I'm ok an that one.
Come to think of it, It might be an idea to create a codex of vampiric bloodlines for the Handbook.
----- Union's finest underachiever -----
Farewell CITY of HEROES
The First, the Last, the One.
Union: @ominousvoice2059
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Now, my character is a little bit cheeky in that respect because I have him as the founder of the first bloodline. He is the first vampire, but he is not the ancestor of all vampires, so think I'm ok an that one.
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You might want to watch that. I created a character ages ago who was meant to be the first of the Nictus, and CERTAIN people tore me a new one over it! *glares* I used pretty much the same as you did; he was the first nictus, but he wasn't the ancestor to all nictus. That didn't stop the righteous though!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Now, my character is a little bit cheeky in that respect because I have him as the founder of the first bloodline. He is the first vampire, but he is not the ancestor of all vampires, so think I'm ok an that one.
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You might want to watch that. I created a character ages ago who was meant to be the first of the Nictus, and CERTAIN people tore me a new one over it! *glares* I used pretty much the same as you did; he was the first nictus, but he wasn't the ancestor to all nictus. That didn't stop the righteous though!
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Mainly because I'd guess the likely hood of the first Nictus being an NPC Villain at some point, is like 90%
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
That may be the thinking behind the reaction, but a lot of players would simply react to it without thinking.
Rule-of-thumb - never, ever make your character the 'first of' anything that already exists in-game. That's Story Canon, and even if it's not described, it's not up to us as the players to mess with it.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Now, my character is a little bit cheeky in that respect because I have him as the founder of the first bloodline. He is the first vampire, but he is not the ancestor of all vampires, so think I'm ok an that one.
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You might want to watch that. I created a character ages ago who was meant to be the first of the Nictus, and CERTAIN people tore me a new one over it! *glares* I used pretty much the same as you did; he was the first nictus, but he wasn't the ancestor to all nictus. That didn't stop the righteous though!
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I know the risks of creating characters like that. That's why as a failsafe, my character projects a deliberate degree of uncertainty about his status in RP, it's treated as myth. That way if people want to take it as BS they can do. If however they are more open to it then yay for me.
Ultimately, claiming that status for my character doesn't impose on anyone else to the best of my knowledge, and as far as I know no-one else has claimed 'first vampire'.
As for your Nictus, I think I can understand why you got flak. Nictus are exclusively CoX canon and as such have a defined history (written or unwritten). Rewriting said history is never a popular decision.
----- Union's finest underachiever -----
Farewell CITY of HEROES
The First, the Last, the One.
Union: @ominousvoice2059
Game Canon can only do so much. To be able to effectively RP within the game, we need a lot of detail and its up to us to fill in those gaps. Of course, we may all fill them differently and therein lies the problem. And of course, there are situations where game lore comes along and trumps player canon. Dante used to be one of the last members of the Midnight Squad but with i12 where anyone with a gaudy costume and a baseball bat can be part of the order, I had to retcon that out. In a recent plot, I had to speculate on how the Will of the Earth virus works. If we get an issue that focuses on the Devoured Earth, I can see myself having to do the same again. Hey ho. I think it would be more or less impossible to cover the millions of details required in some sort of game lore bible so of course, there will be some fudge required regardless of what were provided with.
As for overpowered characters, I really dont see the need. I find them, and no offence intended to anyone who plays one, dull. I like my RP to work within the game world and having someone who is almost god-like in their abilities spoils that as nothing is really a threat to them. Rikti invasion? Sent them home in the wink of an eye. Nemesis plot? Bah, saw right through it. Lord Recluse? Smacked him around with one arm tied behind my back. There would be no danger to me, no thrill of triumphing over incredible odds. It would all just be in a days work. Wheres the danger? The risk? The only threats to them would have to RP threats rather than in-game and that would make it difficult to actually play the game with them. Its why I find Superman consistently boring and why most of my characters are reasonably normal folk who have acquired power some way.
The one exception is Dante but even then, just because hes old, doesnt mean hes invulnerable. He can do some fairly powerful conjuration if given the time and concentration but the powers he has in-game tend to be the things he can do immediately and without preparation. I also find that having a character too powerful can be immersion breaking. If Im in a team where were all kissing the floor regularly, why doesnt the uber-character just hit their I Win button?
Of course, therell always be things that cant be described in game terms. Ive struggled forever to find an acceptable AT for my villain, mainly because they wont let us create Necro/Mind Control MMs (Boo Hiss!!! ). But at least having something that can be threatened by in-game events would be challenging. I guess it all depends on individual styles of RP. For those who do a lot of forum and IIRC RP, in-game restrictions apply less and there will be appropriately levelled threats to them within their stories.
But of course, were all here together, in one game and the styles will rub against each other occasionally, causing friction. And when that happens, the best we can do it respect each other and work out a compromise.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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As for your Nictus, I think I can understand why you got flak. Nictus are exclusively CoX canon and as such have a defined history (written or unwritten). Rewriting said history is never a popular decision.
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Perhaps, but I had an out as well. I stately quite clearly that though he claimed he was the first, all knowledge of his experiments and even his existence was wiped from the minds of his fellow beings by some mysterious "others", and they imprisoned him for screwing with the balance of things.
When the procedure was rediscovered millennia later, it wasn't quite the same procedure as he used. I still got flak for it though.
Ah well... I was a newbie RPer at the time, and I got rid of him a LOOOONG time ago.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Sorry, slightly OT here, but... Kheldians aren't superstrong? I assumed Peacebringers and Warshades were rather strong and tough, at least towards the upper limits of the human scale, if not more, due to being Kheldians. I've always played Luna like that... Is this not so?
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That was my impression too, though I suppose one might read the various PB melee attacks as being more about the energy discharge than strength. Still, if they can shapechange into Dwarf form, I think they can manage a little strength boost in human form.
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Energy tends to trump the densest of matter, so it passes between and disrupts molecular bonds much like Talsorian weapons apparently do.
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Problem here - besides the more in-depth stuff mentioned by Khorak - is that all Peacebringer powers are energy based. If Ellie's claws being made of energy is enough to let them cut impervium, then her beam attacks will similarly punch straight through any target, no?
My closest character to "uber" status is probably the man himself, Sebastian Wolfram. He's a sorceror of considerable age and experience (though still a newcomer compared to some), which - theoretically - opens limitless possibilities. When I first began to consider roleplaying as him, I came up with a few limiters which are really supportable only by my own player canon: Wolfram has high skill with magic, but not a huge amount of actual power; he can only effectively memorise a limited number of spells; he prefers not to actively use magic if there's an alternative; and his reliance on a balance of positive and negative energy powers to keep himself alive restricts how far he can branch out. He's still a major potential risk in a RP environment, because none of these limits are very well defined. If I really wanted, I could justify all kinds of overpowered stuff within those limits.
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
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Sorry, slightly OT here, but... Kheldians aren't superstrong? I assumed Peacebringers and Warshades were rather strong and tough, at least towards the upper limits of the human scale, if not more, due to being Kheldians. I've always played Luna like that... Is this not so?
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That was my impression too, though I suppose one might read the various PB melee attacks as being more about the energy discharge than strength. Still, if they can shapechange into Dwarf form, I think they can manage a little strength boost in human form.
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I suppose that given that Kheldians are described as 'masters of energy' there's a number of ways that they could exploit that talent.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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I know the risks of creating characters like that. That's why as a failsafe, my character projects a deliberate degree of uncertainty about his status in RP, it's treated as myth.
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Of course one could look at all vampires as being like RL vampires: a bunch of nerdy emos who self harm and like to go "Blaeh" while claiming to be immortal, despite being born 20 years ago in Devon to middle class parents.
Not what i do, i just refer to them as parasites, but the option is there.
anyway, on the subject of community acceptance of cannon.
'purely' theoretical example.
Say a certain well known RPer wrote a piece of fiction where her male peace bringer character has its way with another slightly lesser known player's main male power suited blaster, including tentacles and crying like a little girl.
If the entire community decided that this was cannon, and became common knowledge, and that player B's denial was purely IC denial of something he was (understandably) ashamed of, would it then become "player cannon"?
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If the entire community decided that this was cannon...
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You expect us to agree on something? All of us?
If the piece was written without player B's consent then that's clearly god-modding and should be explained and denied OOC.
If player B goes along with it and does the denial IC, then I would expect the two collaborators to have agreed the events, so yes, it would become player canon for both of them.
I think.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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'purely' theoretical example.
Say a certain well known RPer wrote a piece of fiction where her male peace bringer character has its way with another slightly lesser known player's main male power suited blaster, including tentacles and crying like a little girl.
If the entire community decided that this was cannon, and became common knowledge, and that player B's denial was purely IC denial of something he was (understandably) ashamed of, would it then become "player cannon"?
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If player B had granted OOC consent for this, then I'd say yes; it would become player canon. If they'd NOT given OOC consent, then it's just a godmod, and particularly nasty one at that.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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besides the more in-depth stuff mentioned by Khorak
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It's like an illness, I can't stop!
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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'purely' theoretical example.
Say a certain well known RPer wrote a piece of fiction where her male peace bringer character has its way with another slightly lesser known player's main male power suited blaster, including tentacles and crying like a little girl.
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Relevant to my interests!
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Problem here - besides the more in-depth stuff mentioned by Khorak - is that all Peacebringer powers are energy based. If Ellie's claws being made of energy is enough to let them cut impervium, then her beam attacks will similarly punch straight through any target, no?
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As Dante said, Peacebringers are described as "masters of energy", so it wouldn't be any great stretch of the imagination for them to be able to vary the effect their attacks have. In fact, I can even DO that to some extent with IO's and their procs.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
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Problem here - besides the more in-depth stuff mentioned by Khorak - is that all Peacebringer powers are energy based. If Ellie's claws being made of energy is enough to let them cut impervium, then her beam attacks will similarly punch straight through any target, no?
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As Dante said, Peacebringers are described as "masters of energy", so it wouldn't be any great stretch of the imagination for them to be able to vary the effect their attacks have. In fact, I can even DO that to some extent with IO's and their procs.
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Simplest answer would be, for the energy to have enough power to shred stuff like that it needs to be intensely focused. Beams, blasts etc lose to much intensity by increasing the area of attack, and thus don't have the 'punch' the claws do.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
That works too.
Plus, the claws are a cat thing. We ALL know how vicious cats can be.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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That works too.
Plus, the claws are a cat thing. We ALL know how vicious cats can be.
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Now the real question is how do hyper dense super strong characters take a wee?
Seriously it'd be coming out with the force of a jet cutter!
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Energy tends to trump the densest of matter, so it passes between and disrupts molecular bonds much like Talsorian weapons apparently do.
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Everything you do to interact with matter is based on energy in some form, leaving that statement almost entirely pointless. It's blatantly obvious Impervium isn't dense at all, people are wearing full bodysuits of it, and the effect you described is nothing more than a monomolecular edge. Being thin enough to sidestep the problem of some sort of funky, obscenely strong molecular structure reduces your energy requirement to slice it somewhat.
Being a so called 'energy weapon' isn't some magic qualifier, it depends heavily on what you're using, what you're hitting, and when it really gets down to it, the sheer brute amount of energy you're using. A laser has to deliver vastly more energy into a human target in order to do the same damage as a bullet, because shooting a big bag of water with what amounts to a thermal energy beam is just a rubbish idea. Smacking it with a hypersonic pellet that simply bludgeons through the soft matter causing brutal hydrostatic shock? Ouchy.
Seeing as Impervium seems to maintain its tag of being virtually indestructible despite everyone toting Talsorian weapons, merely having a monomolecular edge seems to do squat to Impervium (or the Rikti wouldn't bother using utterly massive power weapons for the job). Those Vanguard soldiers won't be dying because of holes blown through their armour, they'll be dying because physics is a harsh b**** who will still horribly kill you with sheer concussive force and massive burns, since Rikti infantry weapons can apparently be used to level city blocks.
Where the hell was I going with this s***? Oh right. Even an M-16 is an 'energy weapon'. Cutting through any amount of Impervium like some sort of living lightsaber would make your character massively powerful, let alone a couple centimeters in one strike.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."