So far, it looks as if the passives are gonna be granted the most changes/buffs, by adding secondary effects of some or other kind that has not yet been disclosed.
So while Im positive towards these changes, I am actually a bit worried they will be of the kind that will require me to use a respec to add one or two (already have rpd).. atm im quite happy with my build. At least for the purposes of tanking, PvP is another matter..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
IMO, the resistance passives are where a buff is needed most. Since HPT from WP is better than all 3 Inv resistance passives combined, they're a little overdue for some love. I always take them anyway, great places to slot the +psi and +res/+def IOs.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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IMO, the resistance passives are where a buff is needed most. Since HPT from WP is better than all 3 Inv resistance passives combined, they're a little overdue for some love. I always take them anyway, great places to slot the +psi and +res/+def IOs.
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^ This... plus for defence freaks like yours truly, losing the -5% def on unyielding makes me drool.
Biggest fear is what will we get in exchange for that tbh since an inv with more def and more res on passives looks quite overpowered to me
Edit: Wait, any link to this? There's nothing about passives on OP's quote
[ QUOTE ]
So far, it looks as if the passives are gonna be granted the most changes/buffs, by adding secondary effects of some or other kind that has not yet been disclosed.
So while Im positive towards these changes, I am actually a bit worried they will be of the kind that will require me to use a respec to add one or two (already have rpd).. atm im quite happy with my build. At least for the purposes of tanking, PvP is another matter..
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They tend to give free respecs when they announce changes that require rejigging of ATs.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Biggest fear is what will we get in exchange for that tbh since an inv with more def and more res on passives looks quite overpowered to me
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Edit: Wait, any link to this? There's nothing about passives on OP's quote
[/ QUOTE ]
Blimey. You people need linkies for everything? I'm not likely to have made that up am I?
But... ta da!
He doesnt mention passives definitively. But as he has a list of 5 improvements its likely passives are amongst them because in their current state they make invul a lopsided and unthematic (and some would say, unattractive) set.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
Also, to throw out an idea I had earlier this week (bearing in mind I know this will never happen 
)
Replace Dull Pain with Instant Healing
Divide the HP boost from Dull Pain into the 3 Res passives
TADA!
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
[ QUOTE ]
Also, to throw out an idea I had earlier this week (bearing in mind I know this will never happen )
Replace Dull Pain with Instant Healing
Divide the HP boost from Dull Pain into the 3 Res passives
TADA!
[/ QUOTE ]
Got no prob with that, at least in theory. Don't know how that would play out but I've never felt dull pain was thematically suited to invulnerability in the first place.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Blimey. You people need linkies for everything? I'm not likely to have made that up am I?
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Did I say you made that up?
The -Def from Unyielding bit was clear enough for me, hence why I asked for a link because of the passives which I didn't see 
Castle has made a number of posts on this topic, and it appears that he was pursuaded to look at Invun on the grounds that it was uninteresting, rather than underpowered.
He thinks that one reason it underperforms is people skip the passives, so he is going to make them more interesting by adding secondary effects. e.g. slow resist to Resist Elements, Energy Drain resist to Resist Energies, and def debuff resist to Tough Hide.
He also recognises that it is difficult to fit many larger mobs into the radius of Invince, so that may get increased.
The other thing he could do is remove the resistance from Unyelding along with the -def, and share it out to the passives.
I really should do something about this signature.
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The other thing he could do is remove the resistance from Unyelding along with the -def, and share it out to the passives
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An interesting change indeed, probably a bit radical removing all the res, but removing part of the res and transferring it to the passives (and maybe bump them a notch) would be more balanced imo since it would allow more choice, he could apply one of his beloved "balancing algorithms" that people are so fond of I guess.
Looking forward to see what's in store for Inv.
Edit: Now, what if unyielding becomes only a mez protection? would it be interesting if it become a perma clicky like Practiced Brawler? Hasten not in auto anymore... maybe a good change?
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He thinks that one reason it underperforms is people skip the passives,
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He isnt making sense when he says that. By definition he's saying the set would perform better if people did take the passives, as they stand now. I think he's looking at his spreadsheets again, which worries me, because over the last three years Invul Tankers would have picked up on that if that was the case in a real life gaming scenario.The fact they haven't is game set and match on that point and its odd he's trying to point out otherwise.
The passives are virtually worthless.
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so he is going to make them more interesting by adding secondary effects. e.g. slow resist to Resist Elements, Energy Drain resist to Resist Energies, and def debuff resist to Tough Hide.
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As much as I would love a resist against slow or energy drain, I hope he isnt thinking along those lines. And I'd have a problem understanding why they would go that route at all. There is nothing about being "invulnerable" that woiuld prevent an opponent slowing you down or draining energy so that would make no thematic sense. Better to buff the resists and be done with.
What makes a set attractive is fairly subjective but I dont think anyone ever expected anything other from invulnerability than to be invulnerable. Maybe noit to the old levels (i wish) but if you treat the term as a relative one, then the invulnerability you have should be better spread across the board. Cause like the posters in the usa say, thats all the set does.
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He also recognises that it is difficult to fit many larger mobs into the radius of Invince, so that may get increased.
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Its a bloody good point too.
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The other thing he could do is remove the resistance from Unyelding along with the -def, and share it out to the passives.
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Again, because that handicap was put in place when Invul was way more powerful than now, strictly speaking it shouldn't be spread across anything cause then all you're doing is creating a zero operation. Replacing it with an effect that means the bottom line remains the same.
And the -def is currently a handicap too many.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
Yea, the passives was from THIS post:
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Quote:
The point of all is is to point out that the passive powers help a lot more than you might think, in the general case. Kaiserin's example of using Invoke Panic to essential shut down most incoming damage via a control power is nice and shows an alternative methodology to survival. If the enemies cannot attack, your survivability is infinite. That's really outside the scope of this discussion, though.
/quote
Another thing I think is important is that some people might like taking the Medicine Pool, or the Presence Pool, or whatever else instead of the passives. It may be for concept reasons, it may be because they like the mechanics, whatever the reason, those people don't want to see the passive resists become "must-have" powers.
That's why I suggest keeping them at their current levels, but with some secondary effects.
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to which Castle made THIS response:
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I'm certainly not planning on reducing them any! Adding Secondary Effects to them is my current plan.
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UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
YAY! 
I'm more than happy to hear these news that invuln is finally being balanced with other sets. Removing the -def from unyielding was long due and is one of the things that specially make me happy. Also, whatever boost the passives are getting (more resistance, mez protection/resistance, debuff resistance) I'm more than happy to remove non-necessary powers such as hasten in favour of the passives.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Replacing it with an effect that means the bottom line remains the same.
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That's the point. Bottom line, Invun doesn't underperform mathmatically relative to the other sets, if you take the passives.
It underperforms subjectively, at leat partially because people look at 7.5% and say "not worth taking", when in reality, over the lifetime of a character it represents millions of hp of damage not recieved.
So the objective is to make it look and feel better, without making significantly more powerful, because that would make it overpowered.
I really should do something about this signature.
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As much as I would love a resist against slow or energy drain, I hope he isnt thinking along those lines. And I'd have a problem understanding why they would go that route at all. There is nothing about being "invulnerable" that woiuld prevent an opponent slowing you down or draining energy so that would make no thematic sense. Better to buff the resists and be done with.
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I'm not sure adding secondary effects to the passives would be wrong conceptually. Consider -Recharge resistance in Resist Elements for example. If the cold, which is a common source of -Recharge, does not affect you as much then you shouldn't get as much -Recharge either. Same argument can apply to endurance drain in Resist Energies, or Slow in Resist Elements. In the latter case, there are Toxic attacks that can slow you. Granted, physical impediments such as a sticky web -should- slow you down regardless of what kind of damage you can resist. Then again, you can consider Resist Physical Damage and Caltrops...
My impression of "thematic sense" in CoH is that it can require a lot of suspension of disbelief due to the nature of the game mechanics. There's often no right or wrong, just different viewpoints. Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing what changes will be made to the passives. And if there are secondary effects added, I'd be very happy as endurance drain and debuffs in general are dangerous holes in the Invulnerability defenses.
On an unrelated note to the above I am particularly interested to see what will happen to the defense debuff in Unyielding. Even if a removal is compensated by a decrease of the defense available in Invincibility, it would represent an increase against psionic damage defense as well as being a boost when all enemies are firing at the character from range. Small mercies, but they could occasionally be significant.
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My impression of "thematic sense" in CoH is that it can require a lot of suspension of disbelief due to the nature of the game mechanics. There's often no right or wrong, just different viewpoints.
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An interesting point, worthy of its own thread. For me, I think concept and theme are key to a game like this. I think every effort should be made to make a power look like its in tune from a consistency point of view, even if game machanics require that, in the background, its actually something quite different.
Its all about buying the game and thinking right: I want to be this kind of hero or that kind of hero. The experience should match, at least to a degree, your expectation of what the power is supposed to do. (or, more to the point, a hero with those powers)
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Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing what changes will be made to the passives. And if there are secondary effects added, I'd be very happy as endurance drain and debuffs in general are dangerous holes in the Invulnerability defenses.
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See we differ here because I expect invul to be invulnerable (up to quite a high level) and accept the game will create obstacles such as slow to "balance" my levelling progress. I dont regard them as holes in invuls defences because, although I take your point, I personally see those types of attacks as being outside invuls remit.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
If they remove the -def from unyeilding then my scrapper will def cap, the tank I have planned will be laughing and gain back a power which means it would be able to take another passive. That alone would be a fantastic change for me, but it would mean an invul would def cap easier than an ice...... which I dont see as a big problem cause Ice still hold agro better than anyone and can still cap. I guess I am relatively pleased with this as it buffs a character of mine, but to be honest it was strong enough really so not something I'm likely to rave about.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I recently stopped playing my invul. I was going to reroll a willpower but this may make me stick with it. But I have nvr cared bout the -5 def if I'm invul I should't be trying to dodge hits. It's all bout the res 
Carlsberg don't do Farming,
But if they did..........
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I recently stopped playing my invul. I was going to reroll a willpower but this may make me stick with it. But I have nvr cared bout the -5 def if I'm invul I should't be trying to dodge hits. It's all bout the res
[/ QUOTE ]Def doesn't have to be dodging. I could be a bullet that hits you and just bounces off doing nothing because you're so tough.
[ QUOTE ]
I recently stopped playing my invul. I was going to reroll a willpower but this may make me stick with it. But I have nvr cared bout the -5 def if I'm invul I should't be trying to dodge hits. It's all bout the res
[/ QUOTE ]
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Def doesn't have to be dodging. I could be a bullet that hits you and just bounces off doing nothing because you're so tough.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's resist. Defence is dodging. Check the animation.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
lol @ my uber'd inv/ getting stronger
I love INV (it is my main) the tier 9 crash is rather dissapointing but then if I can pretend I'm a stone tank for 3 minutes then I'm happy (call me easily satisfied if you like)
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Def doesn't have to be dodging. I could be a bullet that hits you and just bounces off doing nothing because you're so tough.
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That's resist. Defence is dodging. Check the animation.
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Think about Ice Armour and most of Stone Armour - those don't dodge, the attacks glance of their armour. Same with Invincibility and Tough Hide. Resistance is taking it on the chin. Defense is either evasion or deflection.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
[ QUOTE ]
That's resist. Defence is dodging. Check the animation.
[/ QUOTE ]
Def is dodging, or the attack bouncing off without making a scratch. Check the text that floats above characters heads. If you are SR and an attack misses because of def, the word "dodged" apears above your head, howver if you are Ice or Invunrability the word "deflected" appears.
It seems odd, by armour class in D&D has always worked this way too.
I really should do something about this signature.
Quote directly from Castle:
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I added 5 lines to my todo list today, all addressing issues with Invulnerability. They'll likely be in I13, assuming I get approval. Yes, this means the -Def in Unyielding Stance might go away.
Again...pending approval, I13, don't take this as a promise, etc, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know it has to be approved but I have to say...FINALLY!
now I'm really looking forward to I13..
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...