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It does seem a tad daft no ouro poral for cimerora time travel,
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If you think its daft you havn't been reading the mission text and clues.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It does seem a tad daft no ouro poral for cimerora time travel,
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If you think its daft you havn't been reading the mission text and clues.
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And you didn't read the rest of that sentence 
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And witches (along with wizards, sorcerers etc) can be both male and female. I'm proof of that as in RL I'm a spirtualist and practice a form of traditional witchcraft (closest term is wiccan but thats too specific for what I do, think and practice) and lets check... yep still a bloke so I'd say that wizard/witch/sorcerer is not gender specific - its just our cultural stereotyping of them that makes it so.
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Well, when speaking of language you need to remember that there is a difference between what's written in the dictionary and what a word is commonly used for and how specific people use certain words. For you, the words bear no gender-specific information, but someone might have been raised to distinguish "sorcerer" from "sorceress" and "witch" from "warlock".
To them, you, as a bloke, are not a witch, but a warlock. I can say I am a "frog", but it doesn't make me one in the eyes of my friends even if I claim that I use the word "frog" to describe the meaning "dork" (until they accept my word meaning as their interpretation of it). When talking about terminology like this it's useful to either go back to their roots and figure out what they were originally used for or talk about what seems to be the use in certain circles. And the latter rarely is useful in internet environment where people come from so varied locales with different background to the language.
And furthermore a good thing to remember is how the whole English language is very gender-divided. It might not have feminine and masculine forms for most words anymore, but it differentiates gender in almost every conversation, starting with "he" and "she".
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Actually warlock is a term for a scottish demon originally.
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Also, and I'm trying my best not to sound like a total jerk here, but can you give some source for this? Mainly the "originally" part of this. It (the etymology of "warlock") is a thing we've talked about with friends now and then and if you have some source for the demon origin, it would be nice to hear about it..
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
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It does seem a tad daft no ouro poral for cimerora time travel,
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If you think its daft you havn't been reading the mission text and clues.
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And you didn't read the rest of that sentence
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I did, but you implied that the explanation would be coming in the future, when in fact it's all explained already.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Also, and I'm trying my best not to sound like a total jerk here, but can you give some source for this? Mainly the "originally" part of this. It (the etymology of "warlock") is a thing we've talked about with friends now and then and if you have some source for the demon origin, it would be nice to hear about it..
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Old English waerloga (this is spelt as close as poss - forums wont allow the characters);a weak masculine (="traitor, enemy, devil, etc.")
Also:
Warlocks are, among historic Christian traditions, said to be the male equivalent of witches (usually in the pejorative sense of Europe's Middle Ages)
Above info shamelessly ripped from wikipedia
Emphasis here being traditional Christian definitions. Christianity warped and corrupted many old words from Western Europe (especially the UK) along the course of the centuries to suit the church and move people closer to it (the witch trials are a prime example).
A lot of practitioners of witchcraft consider the term warlock as a negative one used for witches that have dishonored themselves or betrayed their coven. Hence a greater leaning to the ancient meaning of oathbreaker. I could also list a large number of books on my shelf behind me regarding the words origins as the term its commonly used for today by the mainstream - which currently its still Judaeo-Christian but I'm half asleep lol
EDIT more info available here also:
http://www.websters-dictionary-onlin...a/Warlock.html
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The etymology of the word witch supposedly comes from the Old English "wicce", which is the feminine form of "wicca" ("sorcerer, wizard, man who practices witchcraft or magic"). Which means it's meant what it means for a while.
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Well, not counting the negative things that were attached to it
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Well, not counting the negative things that were attached to it
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But that's the "woman" part of... *ribbit* *ribbit*
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
the meanings of words change through the ages. Quite a number of words would raise eyebrows these days, but were simple words a hundred years or so.
So does it matter how words originate? Although interesting to me, the question of how it is perceived nowadays is more important.
Witch may once be seen as either male and female (the witchtrials also convicted male witches by the way), but due to popular programmes such bewitched, charmed or books like, for instance Harry Potter, the word witch has been attributed to mainly female charachters. As such the general public regards the word witch as a female magic user (i leave the negative connotations out for the time being). Samantha (bewitched), Hermoine (Harry potter) and the Halliwell sisters (Charmed) are all good witches and female. So I do understand that most people would consider the word witch meaning a female magic user. Despite what the word was used for once upon a time or how some people still regard them. And then there are individual interpretations as well.
The same goes for sorcerer, sorceress, wizard, mage, warlock, enchanter, enchantress and what other magicusers I may have forgotten.
When you ask ME. I would consider a witch a female magic user, she could be good or evil, or something in between!
;-)
Whereas, I'm quite happy with the concept of a male witch. I probably know some though people keep telling me I'm a huge block and failing to demonstrate anything even vaguely supernatural near me. *sigh*
Then again, I'm the kind of guy who spent a lot of time researching magic, witches, etc. So I possibly don't have a standard viewpoint.
To counterpoint Goldy's view, you do get good witches. Wizard of Oz, Betwitched, Charmed, Good Omens. On the other hand, warlocks are pretty much never good guys. The only example I can think of is the professor in Bednobs and Broomsticks, and he's a fake. I was always bothered that witch was pseudo-neutral, but warlock was just plain evil. Sexual slurring, that's what that is.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
But a warlock is an evil male wizard, so it's right to portray one as evil - but there isn't an alternative for women.
Wizard = male magic user, warlock = evil male magic user.
Witch = female magic user, witch = evil female magic user.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
No, wizard is a morality neutral term. Warlock is specifically used as a term for male witch, generally by those, like yourself, who ascribe to the idea that witches cannot be male.
I'm sorry, but your assertion is wrong. For starters, you have this idea that witches and wizards are just magic users. Actually, wizards fit the archetype of the book learning, complex spell type of magic user. Witches are more fokelore derived, the village wise woman.
When witches became devil worshippers during the witch hunt period, they needed a name for male witches. Wizard wasn't viable because, if you believe the propaganda, part of the demonisation of witches was to promote male surgeons and doctors who, at the time, were probably less effective than the village midwife. Demonising 'learned men' was not part of the plan, so warlock came into use. That oath-breaker aspect of the name just helps.
If you know a bit more about real world magic, you start to make these differentiations. (Please bare in mind that I don't believe in magic. I know a fair few people who do, and I know a fair bit about the subject, but personally I don't believe in it because I have never seen evidence of it.)
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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When witches became devil worshippers during the witch hunt period, they needed a name for male witches.
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That's just what I said - different words to distinguish types of male magic users, but one catch-all term for female magic users.
Witchcraft was a female crime, and calling a man a witch was simply accusing him of practicing a female type of magic.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
No, because a good percentage of the 'witches' (and they were called witches) tried, convicted and killed were males. They were not convicted of 'practicing a famale kind of magic', they were accused of consorting with the Devil.
There are also plenty of terms for a female user of magic. I'm sure you will claim they all have a negative twist since it's apparent that you are either doing this to have a one sided argument or are so rampantly feminist that you aren't worth the discussion.
So I'm going to stop. I so dislike talking to people when they have a fixed viewpoint, no knowledge and a chip on their shoulder. You dissapoint me, Goldy.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
For what it's worth, from the Online Etymology Dictionary:
warlock
O.E. wærloga "traitor, liar, enemy," from wær "faith, a compact" (cf. O.H.G. wara "truth," O.N. varar "solemn promise, vow;" see very; cf. also Varangian) + agent noun related to leogan "to lie" (see lie (v.1)). Original primary sense seems to have been "oath-breaker;" given special application to the devil (c.1000), but also used of giants and cannibals. Meaning "one in league with the devil" is recorded from c.1300. Ending in -ck and meaning "male equivalent of witch" (1568) are from Scottish.
witch
O.E. wicce "female magician, sorceress," in later use esp. "a woman supposed to have dealings with the devil or evil spirits and to be able by their cooperation to perform supernatural acts," fem. of O.E. wicca "sorcerer, wizard, man who practices witchcraft or magic," from verb wiccian "to practice witchcraft" (cf. Low Ger. wikken, wicken "to use witchcraft," wikker, wicker "soothsayer"). OED says of uncertain origin. Klein suggests connection with O.E. wigle "divination," and wig, wih "idol." Watkins says the nouns represent a P.Gmc. *wikkjaz "necromancer" (one who wakes the dead), from PIE *weg-yo-, from *weg- "to be strong, be lively." That wicce once had a more specific sense than the later general one of "female magician, sorceress" perhaps is suggested by the presence of other words in O.E. describing more specific kinds of magical craft. In the Laws of Ælfred (c.890), witchcraft was specifically singled out as a woman's craft, whose practitioners were not to be suffered to live among the W. Saxons [...]
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No, because a good percentage of the 'witches' (and they were called witches) tried, convicted and killed were males. They were not convicted of 'practicing a famale kind of magic', they were accused of consorting with the Devil.
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Accused women outnumbered accused men by at least 4 to 1 - witch hunting was gender related persecution in most cases.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
You're funny.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
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No, because a good percentage of the 'witches' (and they were called witches) tried, convicted and killed were males. They were not convicted of 'practicing a famale kind of magic', they were accused of consorting with the Devil.
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Accused women outnumbered accused men by at least 4 to 1 - witch hunting was gender related persecution in most cases.
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Just because the organised persecution focused on the female gender, it doesn't mean that the words etymology is explicitly synonymous with women.
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No, because a good percentage of the 'witches' (and they were called witches) tried, convicted and killed were males. They were not convicted of 'practicing a famale kind of magic', they were accused of consorting with the Devil.
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Accused women outnumbered accused men by at least 4 to 1 - witch hunting was gender related persecution in most cases.
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No it was none christian persecution and a method for the village elders to control the rest of the village.
And unless you've got 'hard' evidence backing up your claims don't be pulling figures like 4 to 1.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
It was a gender related persecution becuase religous teachings at the time said women were evil.
And the figure of 4 to 1 is mentioned in books on the subject - and I don't mean the crazy ones that try and exaggerate the death toll - I mean properly researched books.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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It was a gender related persecution becuase religous teachings at the time said women were evil.
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Well it wasnt Adam who took the apple you know.
And it wasn't Eve who was at fault for taking the apple - it was the (male) serpent that lied to her
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And it wasn't Eve who was at fault for taking the apple - it was the (male) serpent that lied to her
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Technically, it was a snake possessed by Satan, which had no masculinity or feminity, except we've been brainwashed by popular mythology that Satan is male. And let's not even start on Lilith...
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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And it wasn't Eve who was at fault for taking the apple - it was the (male) serpent that lied to her
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So women just do whatever told them and thus cannot be held responsible for their actions? Go to the kitchen and make me some pie!
*ribbit*
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
Actually warlock is a term for a scottish demon originally. And witches (along with wizards, sorcerers etc) can be both male and female. I'm proof of that as in RL I'm a spirtualist and practice a form of traditional witchcraft (closest term is wiccan but thats too specific for what I do, think and practice) and lets check... yep still a bloke so I'd say that wizard/witch/sorcerer is not gender specific - its just our cultural stereotyping of them that makes it so.
Anywayyyyyyyyy back to the actual topic. It does seem a tad daft no ouro poral for cimerora time travel, but I'd say its all part of the "coming storm" plot line so makes sense there may be more than one faction twisting time for their respective ends.