Exactly. And I would like to add that I am used to a speed that a well slotted AoE hold can be used every third mob at max. 
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
The only thing I expect from brutes in CoV at the end of the day is to find them in the frontline. I have seen one stay constantly at the back before which just leaves me so much disrespect.
However you would easily see my Dominator at the front, having got my 1st debt badge at 25 on my domie I can say that I am a nutter who waits for no one.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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However you would easily see my Dominator at the front, having got my 1st debt badge at 25 on my domie I can say that I am a nutter who waits for no one.
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And when i see people playing like this its exactly when i use the kick button for not contributing to the team but for just earning debt for themselves and possibly the team.
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I think that Sitriels point (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that most of the time teams will be steamrolling through mobs so fast that a Doms AoE hold would only be ready once every 2 to 3 mobs - so you would need multiple Doms for the AoE hold to be a viable opener for every mob. But as you say, there's nothing wrong with starting with an AoE hold.
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A lot of AOE Holds are Point Blank! Can make it difficult to drop em.
Better off opening with their alternate (and quicker to recharge) AOE Mez /Control power.
In combination alternating the two should mean every group gets AOE Mezzed in some form (once you hit SOs anyway).
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The only thing I expect from brutes in CoV at the end of the day is to find them in the frontline. I have seen one stay constantly at the back before which just leaves me so much disrespect.
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Good one. However, if Red Rag is punching above his weight in a big team, I will wait until the MM's pets go in before charging in myself. Otherwise even with healing flames all I'm gonna do is faceplant - not much use to the team then - except maybe when I get RotP.
UNION @Flitz 50, Lead Hose 50, Red Rag 50
DEFIANT Rose Bloodthorn 34
VIGILANCE Captain Caledonia 20 - Yeah, I made toons on the French server coz we only had 4 back then (might have to transfer/recreate them on one of the US servers)
..and many more!
You could wait until the brute get 'noticed' by the foes before launching a fire ball.
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You could wait until the brute get 'noticed' by the foes before launching a fire ball.
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This equates to everything tankers do, all you have to do is wait 2 seconds or so. I have noticed some people don't have the patience for even this, rather they start badmouthing the tank. Maybe its a symptom of something.
So from persepctive of a squishy, how much aggro management do you expect from a brute?
For me, its far below what I expect from a tank (which is 90% or so of aggro as routine) - that "all come hither" approach.
Its also above what I often see which is "I deal with mine, you deal with yours" kind of equal division of aggro.
Its somewhere in beteen. Get stuck in, take the alpha (or beta) [Mastermind Pets are a suitable alternative], make sure the boss is on you, make sure you are in the thick of it, but dont worry (like a tank should) about making sure all those scrattered / split off stragglers are pounding on you (unless somebody is in real trouble, in which case do your best).
I guess I kind of expect "Shoddy tanking". You know, making sure that that you are taking a goodly proportion of the aggro (particularly from boss / mezzers) but not really caring about getting the entire mob to rail on you.
Back from my OP, in an 8 man team, I had two brutes with no taunt aura, no taunt, and no AoE. To my mind, thats just not good enough "Bruting". Its sending out a message saying "I dont give a hoot about your aggro. I only care about my xp and me". SO I quit.
My standards are fairly low for "Brute - tanking", but you have to draw the line somewhere, and those two brutes (both of whom were around level 38 so had plenty of time to build their defences and get some aggo tool) fell clearly under it.
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Back from my OP, in an 8 man team, I had two brutes with no taunt aura, no taunt, and no AoE.
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In large groups, I sometimes get the feeling that my Brute is getting more than his fair share of the aggro. I think that I now know why! 
UNION @Flitz 50, Lead Hose 50, Red Rag 50
DEFIANT Rose Bloodthorn 34
VIGILANCE Captain Caledonia 20 - Yeah, I made toons on the French server coz we only had 4 back then (might have to transfer/recreate them on one of the US servers)
..and many more!
As I play two "squishy" brutes I dont like to accept the "I cant handle Agro" response. The fire can however deal with the agro thanks to Lightning Rod knocking most down and staggering incoming damage, but the dark just has to get Dark Regen right or dies.
Did an LGTF with an Ice Tank and was rushing in trying to get the Agro before he could. We both herded in the last room, him taking back to the team and me pulling to near them and taking them down with my own attacks (didn't want to miss out on speed boosts)
Clearing that room was fast and fun and proved brutes can take as much agro as a tank with the right support. Non AV agro that is. The AV's (except the Psi) I let him have
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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However you would easily see my Dominator at the front, having got my 1st debt badge at 25 on my domie I can say that I am a nutter who waits for no one.
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And when i see people playing like this its exactly when i use the kick button for not contributing to the team but for just earning debt for themselves and possibly the team.
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Learn to keep up!
My villains are fearless! Many a brute has shown more pointless fear than any single one of my toons and when I get that accolade that comes with debt I am even more fearless!! 
She is also my main badge and story content toon who has done every single arc including an entirely self earnt Verluta Lunata arc and couldnt give a stuff about wannabe efficiency experts.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You could wait until the brute get 'noticed' by the foes before launching a fire ball.
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The type of Brutes I have come across are self doubting, and definately fail to keep aggro and the MMs tend to stay back, the Stalkers hit, placate and run and I am simply a Plant/Thorns that couldnt give a monkeys about other peoples moralities/team thought in a villain game.
My Brute = in first
My MM = in first
My corrupter = in first
My dominator = in first
My stalker = in first but wait for team
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
My Brute Fire/DA = In first and often dragging second group
My Brute Elec/Fire = In first, group dead in one attack
My Dominator = In first and AoE hold, or Out of LoS and Ice Slick then in with AA and ISC
My MM = Cone fear then in, often others in melee before me
My lower MM = Stand back cone fear, heal ranged pets. Often attack first
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I'm a Leccie/Dark. On teams I try to sponge as much of the damage as possible at all times.
Sure, I faceplant a lot, but I can rez myself.
I usually run the taunt aura, cloak of fear, and sometimes oppressive gloom and then pump out the AoE skills. Though I don't much like taking the alpha, as dark's relatively lackluster resistance often leaves me dead. I rely on my mez (oppressive gloom, cloak of fear) to keep me alive.
Being able to heal pretty much all of my hitpoints every 20 or so seconds helps though.
Apathy is its own reward.
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On all my Resistance shield brutes I always go for the taunt aura (invincible on the INV one...)
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Does Invincible actually cop aggro like the lightning field/mudpots? Wondering if my elec/invun brute needs taunt essentially.
It does collect aggro within a small radius. Aggro control is good for fury, however too much is bad dps cos ya dead! I tend to stick with 10 max solo or teamed as thats what my maximum targetting ability with my own attacks, there is survival from just being the last one standing and so I need to be able to beat up what I got before they beat me up, my elec/elec looked like she had an unstoppable crash after every fight, no end and no health almost but the fights were faster from defeating 10 at a time than they would of been 1 at a time or even 6 at a time. With a good corrupter plus alot of team damage (and fast) maybe you can do more but I dont if I can actually help it as even sometimes doing 10 can be pushing it. Depends on the set alot of the time and enemy, their damage type versus your resistance or their accuracy versus your defense. There should be no pressure to play tankerlike anyway because CoV has no need for a tankerlike AT really, but being able to play in a tankerlike way can at times can be beneficial, mostly I would do it for Fury.
Be careful if ya rely on buffs, pay attention to when they drop. I know tankers on coh, who basically have fort drop without knowing and then run in. Id say its better to watch your buffs than rely on others to keep an eye on them especially if they come from offenders, controllers, corrupters or MMs as the buffs are sometimes like a secondary objective.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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It does collect aggro within a small radius. Aggro control is good for fury, however too much is bad dps cos ya dead! I tend to stick with 10 max solo or teamed as thats what my maximum targetting ability with my own attacks, there is survival from just being the last one standing and so I need to be able to beat up what I got before they beat me up, my elec/elec looked like she had an unstoppable crash after every fight, no end and no health almost but the fights were faster from defeating 10 at a time than they would of been 1 at a time or even 6 at a time. With a good corrupter plus alot of team damage (and fast) maybe you can do more but I dont if I can actually help it as even sometimes doing 10 can be pushing it. Depends on the set alot of the time and enemy, their damage type versus your resistance or their accuracy versus your defense. There should be no pressure to play tankerlike anyway because CoV has no need for a tankerlike AT really, but being able to play in a tankerlike way can at times can be beneficial, mostly I would do it for Fury.
Be careful if ya rely on buffs, pay attention to when they drop. I know tankers on coh, who basically have fort drop without knowing and then run in. Id say its better to watch your buffs than rely on others to keep an eye on them especially if they come from offenders, controllers, corrupters or MMs as the buffs are sometimes like a secondary objective.
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Thought of that alright, but I'd argue that if its in the Pool Powers then its not intended to be a primary function of that AT. It just means you could shoe-horn the ability into them (in the same way you could make an Ice/Ice Tank medi-bot with Aid Other since their HP means its does a decent heal).
They do make unsurpassed Alpha Absorbers but when you need to drag a Mob off the Dominator to save him it can be very difficult (from personal experience last night 
)
Maybe you can split "Tanking" into two parts? Alpha Absorbing and Taunt-absorbing aggro from specific threats after that, and that the heroes Tank function can be split over the two Villain ATs in different ways?
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I've had either Challenge or Provoke in my Bots/Dark MM's build for most of the time since Bodyguard was introduced as an MM inherent, and he fairly easily straddles both your divisions whilst still managing to have a foot firmly planted in both Crowd Control and Silly Damage. It all depends on how you build and (more importantly) play your character, and CoV is much more flexible in that respect than CoH is.
My Stone/Stone Brute has pretty easily stood up to a couple of AVs without external buffs for periods of time (i.e. team running back to the helicopter from GV hospital mid-LRSF), which is certainly more punishment than any of my other villains can withstand, but that's not to say that other ATs can't fulfil the role in the course of normal gameplay - again, my MM has stood up to AVs and GMs on his own, in a team only yesterday my Fire/Kin Corr was first in against the Radio whilst the rest of the team ummed and dithered about what to do.
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However you would easily see my Dominator at the front, having got my 1st debt badge at 25 on my domie I can say that I am a nutter who waits for no one.
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Interesting, I play my Plants/Fire Dom the same way and didn't pick up the first debt badge until the late 30s. In fact, despite the fact that she doesn't have a self-heal, I'd consider her around third in the list of my villains most capable of crowd-control (which is essentially the root of tanking) in CoV, much moreso than my other Brutes, both in terms of alpha absorption and aggro-absorption. (<3 Creepers + SoC)
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
My brute is usually the first one in but it have to be some one i like if i go out of my way to save them by taking the aggro away from them. he is no scrapper and no tank but a BRUTE a selfish killing machine that waits for nobody (and some times face plant because i went ahead with full Fury bar and the team resting ).
On a note. Some brutes i have met have been abel to fulfill a number of roles from the blue side. But expecting all brutes to tank is like expecting all defenders to heal
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My brute is usually the first one in but it have to be some one i like if i go out of my way to save them by taking the aggro away from them. he is no scrapper and no tank but a BRUTE a selfish killing machine that waits for nobody (and some times face plant because i went ahead with full Fury bar and the team resting ).
On a note. Some brutes i have met have been abel to fulfill a number of roles from the blue side. But expecting all brutes to tank is like expecting all defenders to heal
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I agree, playing like a tank is optional and most certainly there are some foes that your better off skirting around whilst another brute perhaps even plays tank. Whoever does it could be dependent on the enemies in the mission and their damage type.
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However you would easily see my Dominator at the front, having got my 1st debt badge at 25 on my domie I can say that I am a nutter who waits for no one.
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Interesting, I play my Plants/Fire Dom the same way and didn't pick up the first debt badge until the late 30s. In fact, despite the fact that she doesn't have a self-heal, I'd consider her around third in the list of my villains most capable of crowd-control (which is essentially the root of tanking) in CoV, much moreso than my other Brutes, both in terms of alpha absorption and aggro-absorption. (<3 Creepers + SoC)
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But for combat jump, sj and acrobatics mine currently has nothing but plant/thorn powers. Getting the first secret arc doing all those ghost pirates and not out-levelling other arcs as she is my main story content toon took a lot of debt. Debt is most welcome.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Any Brutes can tank, providing they know what they're doing and their group does too.
Probably the best thing I found in Villains is a combo of You (Brute) with a Kinetics Corruptor, and Thermal as a Main-Healer too if you need it. Kinetics should keep Taunt and AOEs up enough and Thermal will greatly increase your damage resistance.
My question was more: SHOULD a brute tank? And not even "tank".
GOt in another scrape a week ago. 6 man team. 3 Brutes. None had taunt aura or taunt. ONe had no AoE attack. Two had one only (foot stomp) and this was at level 40.
Ultimately, of course, anyone builds there toon how they want. But I quit that team in, quite frankly, disgust. Im free not to team with them too.
I dont expect a brute to tank. I expect a brute to brute, and part of that is taking a reasonable share of the aggro.
There seems to be this attitude in the air of "If I dont get aggro then it dissapears magically into the ether". Wake up folks. IT HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE, and if its not on your brute (who is the most resiliant member of the team and actually gets a benefit from getting it) its gonna go on somebody else.
I imagine that if you mostly kill folks around your anchor you should be fine.
I must say that that even witout taunt and taunt aura my level 34 brute often get more aggro than he can handel alone.
But he is a true villain so running away is in his bones.
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My question was more: SHOULD a brute tank? And not even "tank".
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With that revision, in the event that aggro is spilling everywhere in a team I would imagine that any decent brute should be able to pick up the reins and get any situation under control. However, if another member of the team - whether they be a brute, MM, or otherwise is doing a better job of either alpha-absorption, crowd control, or aggro-management, the Brute shouldn't accept that state of affairs too. (Although there's nothing more amusing than watching someone say "IM THE BRUTE I GO IN 1ST" and watching them get decimated by the same groups that your squishy dom was waltzing the team through only seconds before.)
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There seems to be this attitude in the air of "If I dont get aggro then it dissapears magically into the ether". Wake up folks. IT HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE, and if its not on your brute (who is the most resiliant member of the team and actually gets a benefit from getting it) its gonna go on somebody else.
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I don't even think it's that considered to be honest, it really just seems like people not understanding the (pretty basic) game mechanics and/or not being aware enough of their surroundings to notice - and that's not limited to Brutes, it's a condition that covers every AT, in both games.
Personally, I mainly pick up Taunt on my Brutes expressly for the purposes of aggro-stealing in large teams. 
The fact that I can (and do) then also use it to deflect fire from teammates in danger is a handy bonus.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
I think that Sitriels point (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that most of the time teams will be steamrolling through mobs so fast that a Doms AoE hold would only be ready once every 2 to 3 mobs - so you would need multiple Doms for the AoE hold to be a viable opener for every mob. But as you say, there's nothing wrong with starting with an AoE hold.