Illu Trollers Decieve.. good, bad or indifferent ?
By
Archy,
Posted on: 2007-02-05 05:55 in Controllers
One interesting thing with Deceive & AVs is that although Purple Shields protect them, once the shields drop they get hit with all Deceives still in duration at once. I've often stood deceiving the Clockwork King whilest the team assembles. His shields drop and suddenly he psi-nukes his minions 
It took me about 30 levels to spec into Deceive. Idiot that I am.
I open almost any EB/AV-fight with stacking Deceive as often as possible while the rest of the team assembles. It´s just a great way to make sure that the EB/AV is the only enemy left standing and as soon as the purple bubbles show up it´s a good opportunity for the team to stack debuffs and do some damage before he has any chance to retaliate. Plus, it´s hilarious.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
It's quite good fun against embalmed vahzilok too 
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
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It's quite good fun against embalmed vahzilok too
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Hehe
Deceive just rocks. period.
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Good power...usually better powers to take so no room for it.
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yes
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
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Good power...usually better powers to take so no room for it.
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yes
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Such as?
I'll have to look at my Ill/Rad powers again after reading all this. Never have had Decieve and i'm always short of options when i respec so there must be a whole lot oth other powers i've considered to be better.
Off the top of my head i could ditch group invis , but i do find this one more than useful. Choking Cloud , many slag it off but i always find it again a useful power. I have Recal friend , again useful with my mutate revive.
I like the sound of deceive but at the mo can't think what i could ditch that i wouldn't miss from my Primary or Secondary? 
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Good power...usually better powers to take so no room for it.
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yes
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Such as?
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From a PvE perspective:
Blind, spectral wounds, superior invis, phantom army, spectral terror, phantasm (maybe group invis and flash), healing aura, heal other, clear mind, fortitude recovery aura, regeneration aura, adrenalin boost(maybe absorb pain and resurrect), personal force field, deflection shield, insulation shield, dispersion bubble, force bubble (and maybe force bolt), tranfusion, siphon power, siphon speed, transference, fulcrum shift (and maybe increase density and inertial reduction), radiant aura, radiation infection, accelerate metabolism, enervating field, lingering radiation, em pulse (and maybe mutation and choking cloud), sonic barrier, sonic haven......deep breath....disruption field, sonic dispersion, clarity, snow storm, steamy mist, freezing rain, hurricane, tornado, lightning storm (and maybe o2 boost), hurdle, stamina, fly (maybe hover), tactics (maybe vengeance), combat jumping, super jump, acrobatics.....nother deep breath.....aid self, hasten, super speed, teleport (maybe recall friend) from the top of my head 
Ninja edit: Didnt mention any TA powers as I havent actually played the set so wont comment on it.
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
Everyone will have their own opinion on certain powers.
Only thing I'll say on the matter is this. An Illusion Controller without Deceive would be a challenge.
It's a wonderful power to have - particularly when used correctly.
I tip my hat to those Ill trollers who managed to get by without it.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Only thing I'll say on the matter is this. An Illusion Controller without Deceive would be a challenge.
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No.
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I tip my hat to those Ill trollers who managed to get by without it.
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Why thank you
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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I tip my hat to those Ill trollers who managed to get by without it.
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Why thank you
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Same
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
For PvE, try to take it (especially if you solo). For PvP, no problem if you skip it.
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
I see it being more useful for PvP than for PvE tho. For PvE I just used it to confuse AVs not to have to fight its minions when the team was tight
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Only thing I'll say on the matter is this. An Illusion Controller without Deceive would be a challenge.
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No.
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I tip my hat to those Ill trollers who managed to get by without it.
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Why thank you
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You're very welcome but it's notable that the part of my post you chose not to comment on was this bit ...
It's a wonderful power to have - particularly when used correctly.
Interesting
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Good power...usually better powers to take so no room for it.
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yes
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Such as?
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From a PvE perspective:
Blind, spectral wounds, superior invis, phantom army, spectral terror, phantasm (maybe group invis and flash), healing aura, heal other, clear mind, fortitude recovery aura, regeneration aura, adrenalin boost(maybe absorb pain and resurrect), personal force field, deflection shield, insulation shield, dispersion bubble, force bubble (and maybe force bolt), tranfusion, siphon power, siphon speed, transference, fulcrum shift (and maybe increase density and inertial reduction), radiant aura, radiation infection, accelerate metabolism, enervating field, lingering radiation, em pulse (and maybe mutation and choking cloud), sonic barrier, sonic haven......deep breath....disruption field, sonic dispersion, clarity, snow storm, steamy mist, freezing rain, hurricane, tornado, lightning storm (and maybe o2 boost), hurdle, stamina, fly (maybe hover), tactics (maybe vengeance), combat jumping, super jump, acrobatics.....nother deep breath.....aid self, hasten, super speed, teleport (maybe recall friend) from the top of my head
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LMAO. no point here really and a waste of breath
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Good power...usually better powers to take so no room for it.
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yes
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Such as?
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From a PvE perspective:
Blind, spectral wounds, superior invis, phantom army, spectral terror, phantasm (maybe group invis and flash), healing aura, heal other, clear mind, fortitude recovery aura, regeneration aura, adrenalin boost(maybe absorb pain and resurrect), personal force field, deflection shield, insulation shield, dispersion bubble, force bubble (and maybe force bolt), tranfusion, siphon power, siphon speed, transference, fulcrum shift (and maybe increase density and inertial reduction), radiant aura, radiation infection, accelerate metabolism, enervating field, lingering radiation, em pulse (and maybe mutation and choking cloud), sonic barrier, sonic haven......deep breath....disruption field, sonic dispersion, clarity, snow storm, steamy mist, freezing rain, hurricane, tornado, lightning storm (and maybe o2 boost), hurdle, stamina, fly (maybe hover), tactics (maybe vengeance), combat jumping, super jump, acrobatics.....nother deep breath.....aid self, hasten, super speed, teleport (maybe recall friend) from the top of my head
Ninja edit: Didnt mention any TA powers as I havent actually played the set so wont comment on it.
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Very funny. I consider for instance blind theoretically inferior than deceive.. But blind is more practical with its short animation.
Lets see..
Neutralize an enemy completely? Both.
Trigger containment? Both check.
Blind does small damage, yay.
In addition confuse lasts over 10 seconds longer out of the box than blind, causes no aggro, doesnt break super invis, makes the enemy fight on your side and buff/heal etc you. Elite bosses have no extra confuse protection with triangles, I have started to permaconfuse EBs since I got told of this. (mind Dominators for instance can build domination bar full from distance with this before engaging an AV or eb, because it causes no aggro.)
What exactly would be better in blind?
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I see it being more useful for PvP than for PvE tho. For PvE I just used it to confuse AVs not to have to fight its minions when the team was tight
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I've only found it useful in very specific PvP situations like duelling against another troller. In large maps or zone PvP, there are just too many ways to counter it. For PvE, I used it throughout all levels. It's a nice ghetto mez in the low levels when you solo and can be very helpful in team situations when used on (de)buffing foes. It's true that in the end-game, you will mainly use it on AVs. Still worth keeping imo.
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Trigger containment? Both check.
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Nope. Confusion doesn't set up containment. Only holds, immobs, sleeps and stuns.
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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Trigger containment? Both check.
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Nope. Confusion doesn't set up containment. Only holds, immobs, sleeps and stuns.
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Bah, not that I have bothered to even take notice since my troller isnt the one taking down mobs.. I have to rely on others for it anyway.
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Trigger containment? Both check.
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Nope. Confusion doesn't set up containment. Only holds, immobs, sleeps and stuns.
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Bah, not that I have bothered to even take notice since my troller isnt the one taking down mobs.. I have to rely on others for it anyway.
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Why? illusion has excelent damage. Spectral Wounds + Blind + PA.
It isnt that deceive isnt good, its just that in terms of practical useage the animation is too long for any kind of "proper" PvE. Its without doubt a fun power and it can speed up soloing a bit, but its NOT a power that will bring very much to a decent team cause its so darn situational. You might say hey what about deceiving those forcefield thingies that skyraiders have, problem is that whats the use when they are all dead 5 secs later...
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
Well I admit I was thinking my mind/ff when I said that.
Re the Little debate between Cobra MAn, Archy and Imaginary.
I think I probably COULD get by in PVE without Confuse so points there to Archy and Imaginary BUT why on earth would I want to because as Cobra Man pointed out it just makes things more of a challenge than they need to be.
Re Imaginary's comment about buffing Sky Raider FF generators being pointless coz they are dead 5 seconds later. They are when you are in a GOOD team and if thats the case, your ability to get by without deceive is due in no small way to the effectiveness of others as much as yourself. I tip my hat to your team .
If you are in a bad PuG or solo then the FF generators may well be around a bit longer. That being the case surely its better to have 'em working for you rather than the badguys coz that just makes an already overlong battle even longer again!
That's what I was getting at as well.
In an ideal, experienced, balanced large team that is ripping through the mobs the need for Deceive is less.
If you're lucky enough to have this situation at all times or even the vast majority of the time you won't really miss Deceive ... but lets face it we do find ourselves in 'weaker' teams from time to time.
I could spout several scenarios where not having Deceive would be detrimental but perhaps the most obvious one is when you want to neutralise a particular threat, i.e Malta Sappers, CoT Mages, Tsoo Sorcerers, Paragon Protectors, Lost/Rikti bosses etc - not to mention AV's.
With one or two applications of Deceive those threats are no longer a problem - allowing your 'weaker' and indeed any team make up to wade in and clean up.
As I said ... it's a wonderful power to have if used correctly.
Not having Decieve in those situations would be a real challenge for the team and even in a strong team it makes life a lot easier as well.
I would stress that is only my opinion and I do respect other peoples opinion who don't rate the power. Decieve just suits my style of play - it clearly isn't the same for everyone.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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but its NOT a power that will bring very much to a decent team cause its so darn situational.
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Err.. what is situational about it? You can always use it on any enemy.. On a solo mob its like a longer hold. Only thing wrong with it is its long activation which may make you want to use shorter activation powers.. Especially if youre on a good team, I give you that. But lets consider those of us who aren't.
If the goal is to neutralize mobs, I might be spamming blind and deceive after using AoEs. If the goal is to do damage of course I'd be rather using spectral wounds..
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Only thing wrong with it is its long activation which may make you want to use shorter activation powers..
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Since they removed the pause after casting, Deceive now has the same activation time as Blind.
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
hey I just remade my next firefighter toon into an Illusion/Storm Controller
and Decieve is an all out fun power to use!
I had this theory that you could still possibly get exp if you use spectral wounds and then get the other guys to finish the guy off! it actually works pretty well! dagnamit why didnt I pick this powerset when I made Frank?
oh right fire imps