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Is that stated officially, or just your perspection?
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It's official, I think, but I awkwardly put it in word : the growing of fury against low level mobs is not slower than before, it's slower than the growing of it against high level mobs or players.
To sum up, it's the fury against players and high level mobs which has been improved in the patch.
[/ QUOTE ]Aye, that is correct, it always used to be that way but was bugged. The post just made it sound like there'd been a reduction in the speed it builds up when fighting ormal mobs.
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A brute running both will be most unbrutish
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not really, high def and res, mez protection going and also boosted HP regen, using mudpots and taunt to keep things on you and it's not so much an issue, pvp wise, kins, rads and psi are your worst enermies lol
[/ QUOTE ]High survivability isn't the point of being a brute, it's constant movememnt and attacking. Which is why /stone isn't a true brute set.
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Funny, last time I looked it was in the Brute's Secondary Power Sets, and thus a true Brute Set.
Anyway MaX, we've had this discussion before, I know your totally against Stone Brutes and won't give them the time of day and the only time you've played them is an instant 40 in the i7 test,so don't know how they truly work.
As for every other comment against them, have you tried them, in PvE a lot of brutes are back in hospital in situations a Granite can triumph in, i know, i only have 5 brute's, he doesn't do as much damage as some, but he's their to do the damage when others are yellin "Crash", tauntin away holdin aggro, smashin the enemy.
I'm with Trix on this one, Hammerok and Fen had a marvoulou time on a 2hr 4 min LRSF the other day. 
Sorry forgot...Constant movement.........hmmmm, teleport generally moves me instantly into the next mob, funny that, meaning i'm instantly in the next mob. 
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High survivability isn't the point of being a brute, it's constant movememnt and attacking. Which is why /stone isn't a true brute set.
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Not all - most, but not all - /Stone Brutes live in Granite. My Stone/Stone Brute is level 36, has gone those 36 levels without Granite, and will continue to progress without being in Granite all the time for the 12 levels after I pick it - except in the final stages of the RSF, perhaps. 
/Stone provides decent defence to the most frequently occuring damage types in CoV, increased regen, and an awesome +HP ability - this is at the cost of reduced mobility, but nothing that can't be easily circumvented by a few binds. I have an attack chain with excess without Hasten running, currently, and although the playstyle is different - more reliant on Taunt to maintain Fury-generation - my Stone/Stone is easily as 'brutish' as my EM/Fire, which is all about fast movement, high-damage, and relentless attacks.
It's also nice to have a Brute I can put up against AVs in a duo or trio and not have to worry about. 
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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this is at the cost of reduced mobility, but nothing that can't be easily circumvented by a few binds.
[/ QUOTE ]You need 8 kins to overcome -jump of rooted
/Stone for brutes is kinda like /DA for stalkers, both have few powers that are totally against the concept of the AT.
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/Stone for brutes is kinda like /DA for stalkers, both have few powers that are totally against the concept of the AT
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The only concept of the brute AT is to kill a lot of ennemies before to be killed by them. The /stone brute is able to do that perfectly, especially with teleport and/or teleport foe.
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"Then you stopped reading too early."
Whatever...
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This way a "low aggro"-primary like dark melee could prove problematic (if not soloing) while aoe-heavier sets have a better chance to keep the aggro of more mobs and thus generate fury more easily.
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DM has soul drain, dark consumption to name but 2 AoE "dark melee" attacks; shadow maul is cone effect. Plz know what you are talking about before commenting on my posts; and Ill let it pass when u say something really stupid like in the quote above. 
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Please be assured that I know fully well what I am talking about. But concerning you I have my doubts if you consider powers like Dark Consumption and Shadow Maul appropriate for holding mob aggro. If you consider Dark Melee "AoE-heavy" because of those powers while a single Lightning Rod or Fire Sword Circle can draw almost all the aggro away from Darkie McDark (and seriously damage those mobs) it´s definitely not me who is saying something "really stupid". 
Sorry, but you completely missed the point of my post.
EDIT: However, I have to admit that the DM/Stone brutes I have teamed with were pretty durable... I guess this was partially because my elec brute had all the aggro... or my kinetic corruptor... or was it my dominator? Hell, the only one of my toons that had less aggro than a DM/Stone brute is my stalker... and even that is not true all of the time.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Are we talking /Stone, or Granite armour?
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Are we talking /Stone, or Granite armour?
[/ QUOTE ]/Stone without granite is still /stone with rooted.
My fire/ can hold agro easily without an aura and pull agro from those with aura's. With my aura on I become the centre of attention.
Dark melee cant have quite the same success rate without the aura reall, but then only Elec really can come close to fire on AoE
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Any brute can get 100% fury on any team by being the first into the next mob, and once u have 100% fury any brute is welcome to AoE or taunt the aggro away.
Using shadow maul to best effect is very difficult without pulling mobs round corners (which is even more difficult on a team), which is why I respec'ed out of it. I have currently taunt and lightening field post lv 40, then I can get 100% fury on any team very easily. Soul drain works very nicely with lightening field too. However I find a brute with higher single target damage more to my tastes.
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Any brute can get 100% fury on any team by being the first into the next mob
[/ QUOTE ]Only on big teams.
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You need 8 kins to overcome -jump of rooted
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So the purpose of the Brute AT is to be able to Jump, then?
You'd be well advised to make arguments that hold water. Not being able to jump hinders you not one jot with the proper movement binds - in combat, I use Teleport; out of combat a quick click of button4 to detoggle Rooted, then button4 once more to retoggle and what do you know? Unhindered movement.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Not all - most, but not all - /Stone Brutes live in Granite. My Stone/Stone Brute is level 36, has gone those 36 levels without Granite, and will continue to progress without being in Granite all the time for the 12 levels after I pick it - except in the final stages of the RSF, perhaps.
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You'll change your mind once you've tried a fully slotted Granite
I find it extremely painful to revert back to rock armor or something else after Granite, feels oh so much squishy compared to the feeling of invulnerability Granite provides
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You need 8 kins to overcome -jump of rooted
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So the purpose of the Brute AT is to be able to Jump, then?
You'd be well advised to make arguments that hold water. Not being able to jump hinders you not one jot with the proper movement binds - in combat, I use Teleport; out of combat a quick click of button4 to detoggle Rooted, then button4 once more to retoggle and what do you know? Unhindered movement.
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Well, I guess we could go on forever nitpicking without looking at the whole point of the discussion ever again. Let´s face it: It all comes down to one´s definition of "being a brute".
In my opinion - which, as I explained earlier, might be influenced by the German translation (Berserker) - a */Stone brute running Rooted and Granite is most unbrutish. This is not to say that Stoney is not good at what he does, but that he has to do his job significantly different than a brute with any other secondary powerset. Sure, each set has it´s strengths and weaknesses, but the only set where you have to change your whole modus operandi as a brute is /Stone.
All other things being equal a /Stone always trades a fair bit of offensive power for defense. And the mobility... Well, being forced to circumvent mobility problems with certain workarounds and power choices is a fair disadvantage. There is no need to defend */Stone as a good set as it definitely is good at what it does. Saying something is different is not the same as saying it is bad.
So, again it comes down to what one defines as "being a brute" and arguing about this is like arguing over semantics, quite pointless.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Are we talking /Stone, or Granite armour?
[/ QUOTE ]/Stone without granite is still /stone with rooted.
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Its not the mobility that is such a problem (although it is of course a problem). Its the huge recharge and damage penalties of granite that worry me. Its bad enough for a tank with a slow recharging taunt.
Surely the tactic would be (in reasonable big teams). - Granite on, taunt, take alpha. Build fury to 100%, Granite off (hopefully by this time dominators and corruptors have laid down their various damage mitigation tools), and let rip?
I cant see using Granite for anything other than alpha's, oh s... buttons, and possibly some AV's, myself. Otherwise its plain innefficient.
Coupled with SS (e.g Rage), Granite's only real issue is the mobility. The +dmg of rage more than compensates for the -dmg on granite, and the recharge is taken care of with proper slotting and hasten. Haven't tried other combos though.
Do people actually PLAY a granite tank or brute before posting about them ?
Well my stone brute is only 17 so im really just casting about for advice really.
I still cant quite see the point of perma-granite for a brute to be honest - I know thing like hasten and rage mitigate the penalties of granite. But, a hastened and raged non-granite brute will do a lot more damage than a hastened and raged granite brute.
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Coupled with SS (e.g Rage), Granite's only real issue is the mobility. The +dmg of rage more than compensates for the -dmg on granite, and the recharge is taken care of with proper slotting and hasten. Haven't tried other combos though.
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Well, as I said earlier, SS/Stone is a nice compromise and is probably the */Stone combination closest to "normal" brutes (although highly Smashing resistant mobs could prove to be tiresome), but all other things being equal a SS/Stone will still miss a noticeable chunk of offensive power when compared to any other SS/(something else) brute.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Well, as I said earlier, SS/Stone is a nice compromise and is probably the */Stone combination closest to "normal" brutes (although highly Smashing resistant mobs could prove to be tiresome), but all other things being equal a SS/Stone will still miss a noticeable chunk of offensive power when compared to any other SS/(something else) brute
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You're talking about ss/granite, not about ss/stone. Do others brutes than /stone play only with their ultimate armor ?
By the way, a question is coming to my mind about the -deg of the granite : how does it work with fury ? With a full fury bar, and without the -30% degs, we have 100% base + 300% fury (or is it 200% ?) = 400% total degs. With the -30% degs, which is the result ? 70% base + 300% fury = 370% total degs, or 70% base + 210% fury (3 times the base) = 280% total degs ?
See, that´s one more difference. Other brutes do not play only with their ultimate armour while I do not see many Stoneys post lvl 38 who enter combat without granite. So, as we are talking about */Stone brutes as a whole and their fury a little bit of generalisation is hardly avoidable. So, yes, when saying */Stone I am talking about */Stone with Granite Armour as there is no such thing like a */Granite secondary set.
And to answer your question: Fury is always calculated in reference to base damage regardless of buffs or (in the case of granite) debuffs. So, the damage per hit is not too much behind with a full fury bar. But the main damage (and "active" fury) killer is the 65% -recharge anyway.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Not having the ability to jump and group would hinder my enjoyment of being a brute, but its not the purpose of the AT. But then I only seem to play squishy brutes anyway
I suppose the purpose of the AT is down to the player but the Op refers to fury building and /stone can cause issues with that if granite is used. I would say more so than if Ice armour had been available, but mostly I'd say that cause I wanted a /ice brute and it was fun breifly in beta while it lasted
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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I still cant quite see the point of perma-granite for a brute to be honest - I know thing like hasten and rage mitigate the penalties of granite. But, a hastened and raged non-granite brute will do a lot more damage than a hastened and raged granite brute.
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You don't see the point of it because you haven't experienced it, really.
For 37 levels with my /stone, I thought I was quite hard to kill with some already massive defense and extreme dmg with SS.
Granite made me understand what invicible really means. Unless you do something foolish or face a lot of psi mobs, you will *NOT* die.
And the ability to withstand so much dmg without flinching lets you face a lot more mobs than you normally could, which in turn means a lot more fury, which covers the dmg part you're concerned about.
I teamed on my corr with group with 3 stone brutes, 2 with granite and none of them had taunt and consistantly let me a stalker and maybe another guy I forgot die, over and over. Even when I was held no attempt was made to gain aggro. The way I play my brute is that, aslong as Im in no danger I hold the aggro and especially the aggro that is attacking squish team mates. I know at least 1 of these brutes is lvling up to be a RSF brute.
In the RSF unless a brute has a good healer he wont last 10 seconds. 90% cap doesnt mean much when u can get hit for 2899 damage by 1 hero. Conversely if the brute doesnt feel the need to hold the aggro, then no amount of explaining will help.
I guess its all about what team you are in? Seeing as its impossible to keep aggro on more than 15 people these days, you are limited to one group at a time - maybe two but things always get hairy with ambushes!
That being the case, its a simple calculation. Can I (reasonably) safely hold the aggro without granite? In which case, normal armours on. If I can't, its granite time.
Lots of factors to consider - taunt slotting, number of AoE you have, number of dominators for holds, and the mastermind/corruptors on the team and the powers they have.
Like most things in CoX, I guess no one answer fits all team combinations.
I guess the principle is - be in Granite when you need to, be ouut of it when you dont?
DC has a base recharge of 3 minutes,SD 2 minutes.
Yeah,real "every spawn" powers to supplement Mud Pots...