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Which would end up in this argument starting up all over again. If you remove the things that people are complaining about having to go to PvP Zones for, then you remove the problem.
Obviously, keep things like the Shivans, Nukes, exploration badges. The former do relate to engaging in PvP in game-lore sense as you're taking things from the other side, just remove the Accolade requirements and the increased XP, and you've got no reason for PvE people to complain if they're in a PvP zone, as what's left will be strictly PvP related.
[/ QUOTE ]But people are complaining about shivans, nukes, and exploration badges AS WELL.
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Well those people have no right to compain tbh. Shivans and Nukes are a part of the PvP content. If they want them, they'll have to put up with it.
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Well those people have no right to compain tbh. Shivans and Nukes are a part of the PvP content. If they want them, they'll have to put up with it.
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Agreed, same with Exploration badges - but then again, I'm sure someone may comment that it is the same with Accolades and I disagree with that.
There's no clear line of distinction and it's easy to argue from both sides.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Well those people have no right to compain tbh. Shivans and Nukes are a part of the PvP content. If they want them, they'll have to put up with it.
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Agreed, same with Exploration badges - but then again, I'm sure someone may comment that it is the same with Accolades and I disagree with that.
There's no clear line of distinction and it's easy to argue from both sides.
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Yup. But with Shivans and Nukes, there is no middle ground. They are there as part of a PvP mini-game. But trying to get them, you are taking part in PvP content.
Is simply high Risk high Reward. Maybe everybody should be made ubber and never die.
Balls to them.
PvP is for playing against a player.
Never get bored of these threads.
Orange target = attack. 
"Like War_Hero said, leave it as it is, it toughens up the softies." - Naz Nomad
Union Heroes
War Borg - Leader of The Paragon Knights
Union Villains
McCabe - Co-leader of The Rogue Knights
Defiant - Supreme Hero
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Balls to them.
PvP is for playing against a player.
Never get bored of these threads.
Orange target = attack.
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*Note to self: Try to prevent War Hero ever meeting Robert Kilroy-Silk*
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Balls to them.
PvP is for playing against a player.
Never get bored of these threads.
Orange target = attack.
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*Note to self: Try to prevent War Hero ever meeting Robert Kilroy-Silk*
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Hah!
Why is it that when ever I read these PvP threads I wan't to log on, go to the PvP zone and kick some butt?
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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Why is it that when ever I read these PvP threads I wan't to log on, go to the PvP zone and kick some butt?
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Because that's what the PvP Zones should be for, and not a place full of feeble ploys to get people into the zones, including Accolade badges which in all fairness, shouldn't be there? 
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Which would end up in this argument starting up all over again. If you remove the things that people are complaining about having to go to PvP Zones for, then you remove the problem.
Obviously, keep things like the Shivans, Nukes, exploration badges. The former do relate to engaging in PvP in game-lore sense as you're taking things from the other side, just remove the Accolade requirements and the increased XP, and you've got no reason for PvE people to complain if they're in a PvP zone, as what's left will be strictly PvP related.
[/ QUOTE ]But people are complaining about shivans, nukes, and exploration badges AS WELL.
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Pretty well covered that Shivans, nukes etc are part of the PvP game.
This thread narrowed it down to the villain Accolades a while ago.
As far as making any new accolades - hero or villain - dependant on entering a PvP zone? Unless the accolade related only to PvP, then it would be a very, very poor idea indeed.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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To me, it's some of the points I'm arguing against that are the ones finding nuances.It's called being on different sides of an argument, and I'd prefer it if you didn't tar people arguing the opposite point as having a problem with logic.
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Ok, you wanted to limit the discussion to PVP badges. That is fine. However, MaX and me were talking about the personal choice players have about getting a badge, accolade or whatever. In order to have a debate, it is good to occasionally check that we are debating over the same subject.
We wanted to point out that getting an accolade is optional, therefore getting any of the requirement badges to that accolade is also optional. It doesnt matter whether the badges in question are PvP or PvE badges, the player always has the choice to get or not to get the thing in question.
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This is the point isn't it. There is an IMBALANCE issue here. The fact that Villains need PvP badges to gain certain accolaids is FORCING those players into the PvP zones, while their heroic counterparts need never go near them.
Either make both hero and villain accolaid requirements come from PvP zones, or make none of them come from them. Its hardly fair on the villains (though they are evil, perhaps they'r being punished...)
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While Im not sure about the severity of this imbalance, I agree with you and requirements between hero and villain versions of accolades should be similar and it would be beneficial if none of them would require PvP badges.
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To me, it's some of the points I'm arguing against that are the ones finding nuances.It's called being on different sides of an argument, and I'd prefer it if you didn't tar people arguing the opposite point as having a problem with logic.
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Ok, you wanted to limit the discussion to PVP badges. That is fine. However, MaX and me were talking about the personal choice players have about getting a badge, accolade or whatever. In order to have a debate, it is good to occasionally check that we are debating over the same subject.
We wanted to point out that getting an accolade is optional, therefore getting any of the requirement badges to that accolade is also optional. It doesnt matter whether the badges in question are PvP or PvE badges, the player always has the choice to get or not to get the thing in question.
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And I agree, it is optional. But it's also wanted. And if I want to get it in Heroes, then I can merrily skip my way from PvE encounter to PvE encounter.
Not so in Villains, which seems more of a ploy to drag reluctant players into the zone, than it does a way of making the two games balanced.
Surely removing the "entering a PvP zone" Accolade requirements from villains would have zero effect on the PvP game?
It's not likely now, but it shows either desperate forethought or a malicious sense of humour.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Well those people have no right to compain tbh. Shivans and Nukes are a part of the PvP content. If they want them, they'll have to put up with it.
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Agreed, same with Exploration badges - but then again, I'm sure someone may comment that it is the same with Accolades and I disagree with that.
There's no clear line of distinction and it's easy to argue from both sides.
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There is a clear distinction in this case. Everything inside and obtainable from PvP zones is PvP content. Whether or not it is - or should be - usable outside PvP is another matter.
Corollary: Born in battle accolade and others that require PVP badges are PVP content.
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Corollary: Born in battle accolade and others that require PVP badges are PVP content.
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Yes. Yes, they are. But they really shouldn't be. After all, the PvP game would be no different if those requirements weren't based in a PvP zone - which, coincidentally, they're not in Heroes.
I've already stated my concerns behind the decision, I've already made the suggestion that they be removed from PvP content, but I don't really think anything will change.
I won't be entering a PvP zone for those badges. All it means is that my hero will always be more powerful in game than my villain ever will be. From a concept point of view, that doesn't work (hero/villain exact duplicate kind of thing), but I can live with that. This isn't a complaint against PvP itself, simply with the decision to place the accolade requirements in a PvP zone as nothing more than a lure to entice players in who wouldn't necessarily enter a PvP zone.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Surely removing the "entering a PvP zone" Accolade requirements from villains would have zero effect on the PvP game?
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You are right, and I support you. I just wanted to clarify the subjects under discussion and prevent false statements such as "PvP content doesnt exist" or "there is PvE content inside a PvP zone" from gaining ground.
However, I think that devs wanted to give something to 'gently nudge' pvE players toward PvP, and some of this content is added to that effect. Unfortunately the devs forgot that hero version of accolades (which were mostly created before PvP even got added to COH) dont have such requirements therefore creating a disparity between COH and COV.
Ultimately I think that the issue is not as severe as people make it to be. (note that the main issue that PvP players attack here in forums is "the complaining when trying to get this stuff and then getting killed")
I find the chat in PvP zones irritating, to put it mildly. When I go in a PvP zone the first thing I do is turn off the broadcast chat facilities, and sometimes tells too. As such I am completely oblivious to people's reasons for being in there, but I assume that everyone who has basic literacy read the big red flashy writing before they went in there, and as such, I attack them.
I'm probably late into this thread and it's so big I'm not gonna read 10 pages of the same thing, repeated over and over again...
Personally, I don't think people hate PvP.. I think people HATE the moronic-idiots that enter PvP zones and make it unenjoyable in every possible way they can think of, and then some.. or maybe that's just my opinion about some of the player-base.. *shrugs*.
When PvP was brought out, it was nice.. people enjoyed it.. but NOW people are seeing one common thing...
... PvP has brought out the ******* in people in some cases.
Those you thought were friends are now complete donkey-holes..
PvP has done both GOOD and BAD things for the community...
Like the old saying goes.. "heros and villians may not like each other.. but even enemies can show respect" -- something that is lacking in PvP-CoX these days.
Anyway, that's my view on "liking/disliking" PvP.
But I have to ask this myself, uncase I missed it...
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I'm not saying they should add them to existing ones, but that the new ones they eventually give us should have PvP requirments.
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Mmmm.. ok.. Why?
Why SHOULD they have PvP requirements...
I'm trying to think of something witty-reason like "because CoV has it, so CoH should." or "because it'll get more people to go into PvP Zones" or "it'll add a elemental risk factor to it (even tho this is a stupid reason because it's directly the same as the PvP reason, only reworded).
But, all I'm coming up with is the same old junk about "more players into PvP to expand the player choice blah blah blah"..
mmmmmm........ 
don't get it.. why should if any, new accolades need to have PvP requirements, when there is nothing wrong with the hero-side ones.. what possible "use" would the introduction of "PvP related requirements" to new accolades, have?
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I'm trying to think of something witty-reason like "because CoV has it, so CoH should."
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That IS the reason.. CoV has PvP requirements for accolades, CoH does not.
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I'm trying to think of something witty-reason like "because CoV has it, so CoH should."
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That IS the reason.. CoV has PvP requirements for accolades, CoH does not.
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Ohhhhhhh 
I see.. ok..
well.. ermm ok.. ::
CoV has elec/elec brutes.. we want elec/elec Tankers..
CoH has Ice/Ice Tankers.. we want Ice/Ice Brutes..
CoV has Energy Aura Stalkers.. we want Energy Aura Scrappers...
In fact, I bet a Brute would look nice with a War Mace or Axe.. mmmm *thinks*
Why?
Because CoV has it.. so CoH should too..
What use would that have to the game?
Because CoV has it.. so CoH should too..
Just because CoV has something, doesn't mean CoH should have it too...
...but then, if that was the case, we'd have all of the above and more.
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Just because CoV has something, doesn't mean CoH should have it too...
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You are grossly underestimating how much some people hate PvP requirements for something perceived as PvE content.. I mean most of this thread was about that..
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Just because CoV has something, doesn't mean CoH should have it too...
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You are grossly underestimating how much some people hate PvP requirements for something perceived as PvE content.. I mean most of this thread was about that..
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Rather than misjudge it..
I'll take your word for it and say::
"down with PvP requirements!" - *gets murderous mob with torches and pitchforks*
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[
You are grossly underestimating how much some people hate PvP requirements for something perceived as PvE content.. I mean most of this thread was about that..
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Anyone underestimating this should feel free to talk to me about it. I will tell them exactly how much I hate it. And how stupid I think it is to put badges etc in PvP zones. It hasn't got people into PvP as the Devs intended, all it has done is cause bad feelings and upset players. One of the most stupid ideas ever.
I would put this on the stupid list above ED. PvP zones are all well and good, in fact sure, the game should have them, some people like PvP. Putting PvE content in them NO NO NO!!!
Badges reflect the things you've done in the game - PvP badges aren't PvE content - they're PvP content - you earn them by PvP-ing.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Which would end up in this argument starting up all over again. If you remove the things that people are complaining about having to go to PvP Zones for, then you remove the problem.
Obviously, keep things like the Shivans, Nukes, exploration badges. The former do relate to engaging in PvP in game-lore sense as you're taking things from the other side, just remove the Accolade requirements and the increased XP, and you've got no reason for PvE people to complain if they're in a PvP zone, as what's left will be strictly PvP related.
[/ QUOTE ]But people are complaining about shivans, nukes, and exploration badges AS WELL.
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There is never going to be a good way to end this debate, but at least removing some of the catalytic material is better than the current situation we're in.