Stalkers and Scrappers are they taking over?
By
Archy,
Posted on: 2006-08-23 23:09 in Everything about PvP
Maybe in Sirens, I was once in a 8 man team, 7 scrappers and me, the only blaster...so of course the villains picked on me. ^^
In RV, I'd say Brutes were the most popular toon around, as Stalkers are easily seen/fought against, but they fare better in Sirens as people have less Perception/powers too help fight detect them.
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Maybe in Sirens, I was once in a 8 man team, 7 scrappers and me, the only blaster...so of course the villains picked on me. ^^
In RV, I'd say Brutes were the most popular toon around, as Stalkers are easily seen/fought against, but they fare better in Sirens as people have less Perception/powers too help fight detect them.
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I feel your pain, today I was in a 8 man team 6 stalkers 1 brute and me the cor. Half the stalkers would be stealthed at the time leaving a few targets for the heros, soon as I poked my head out the base I would be chased by about 4 scrappers. As for rv I find controllers to be pretty annoying, most of them will put you in a hold and wait for their heavy to do work, saying that I've done exactly the same with my freeze ray and slow debuffs.
In Sirens call, yeah, for scrappers the figure is propably pretty accurate, but theres more variety on villain side (at least on defiant), Brutes are also quite common. Dominators are still rarest.
There's always a silly amount of scrappers in the PvP zones whenever I go there but that's only because everyone wants to play spine regen/sr as they're so easy in PvP.
That said, there's also plenty of blasters and trollers in the PvP zones.
Stalker wise, there are a few of them about in Sirens but they've also become less and less effective since people began to understand the importance of +PER powers and as you move on to Warburg and RV they become even less common as more people can fit those powers into their builds. You can always tell who the really good stalkers are as they're the ones that can still do well in the two high level zones despite the fact there's more +PER.
On the villain side, you also see a reasonable amount of Brutes and Corruptors but Dom's are still a rare sight. I do agree that if I join a PuG in Sirens though, I can normally bank on at least 2-3 of them being stalkers.
Dominators and Defenders are definitely the two AT's see the least of on each side in the zones, probably because they just become gank fodder for all the stalkers and scrappers after the easy kill 
There's definately more variety on villains side now then there was a few months ago. It's as if it has shifted a bit. Where as heroes used to have more support AT's now mainly has scrappers and with villains it was mostly stalkers before but now there's more support AT's around on their side.
Thats what I've come across during the hours I play.
stalkers and scrappers are sustainable in the sc environment which is why we see more of them in there. Stalkers have a built in survivability with hide so are pretty much pick up and play and scrappers are quite hardy anyway. Its sad that blasters/trollers/defenders/corrs/doms get jumped on as soon as they are spotted as it helps people gravitate to the stalker/scrapper sets :/
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Yea, seems so.
I think most people are getting tired of being victim of "gank the squishy" whenever they enters a PvP zone.....I am at least.
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Jeg lytter til havet, og ser tiden som var.
Jeg snakker med fjell, og tiden st�r stille.
Jeg snakker med meg selv, og tiden g�r.
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Right. You know why people are suddenly playing things like /Regen and Brutes so much in zones?
Because they nerfed Toggle Drops so hard they're virtually redundant in fast paced PvP.
Funny, some pointed out that this would happen when they announced the changes on Test before it even went live.
Yeah....of course they are. We already said this would happen before they implemented the toggledrop nerf with issue 7.
Why would you play the hard way when you can just play in easymode with tanks and scrappers nowadays? 
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SC does see a lot of em around, though Id say there are more corrupters thans stalkers...Lots and lots of em,with their evil Ice and kinetics :P
That said, Id rather be on a team with a good mix of the ranged type over a team of scrappers..Though the odd scrapper or tank can be good to make people ignore me 
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Right. You know why people are suddenly playing things like /Regen and Brutes so much in zones?
Because they nerfed Toggle Drops so hard they're virtually redundant in fast paced PvP.
Funny, some pointed out that this would happen when they announced the changes on Test before it even went live.
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yeah but we're not american so our opinions dont count 
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Right. You know why people are suddenly playing things like /Regen and Brutes so much in zones?
Because they nerfed Toggle Drops so hard they're virtually redundant in fast paced PvP.
Funny, some pointed out that this would happen when they announced the changes on Test before it even went live.
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yeah but we're not american so our opinions dont count
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You have a very good point there.
You can hardly call the old version of toggle drops "balanced" though. I remember fighting any blasters was an excercise in futility, because I'd have one toggle down. As a DA I have running: 3 shields, CoF, Acro, CJ, and FA. Once mez protection or acro was down, I would be holdable, then EVERYTHING goes down.
I don't agree with the extent of the nerf, it was far too overdone. Kind of like AV regen, it makes you wonder if they went "hey, that's a pretty number. Let's put that in. Oh, and would someone get the dictionary? The players keep using this "consequences" word, and I have no idea what It means".
Bring back toggle drop by all means, but by now means back to what it was.
And to the OP: Stalkers are ludicrously powerful in SC. This levels out by RV, since they can't just hit and run a big target like a scrapper or tanker, they can just shrug it off and fight back too easily. Stalkers in RV take more skill to play well than your average SC ganker has no chance of matching.
Sadly, this doesn't hold true hero-side, since scrappers are the best solo AT, and /regen is pretty much permanently one of the most picked of all sets in-game.
Not as many regens about as before i7 in my opinion 
I think scrappers are actually killing PvP, in Sirens at least.
I was on a team the other night, we worked together, there were double the villains to heroes, about 8 to 4, but because they were all scrappers we got owned over and over so everyone left through boredom in the end.
I asked a friend last night what it was like to see if worth going in and got told that the scrappers had taken over again so it was pointless.
They are way too powerful, specially the spines, and I cant see how it can be much fun for them either as they are just picking up easy kills all the time. They all have superjump which isnt as easy to lockdown as flight, so they bounce about all the time.
They need to either cut the range of their ranged attack, or make it non-minus fly, possibly make some powers minus SJ to even it up a bit too.
Or maybe, just maybe, people could try making something other than scrappers for a change or is that too much like hard work?
The worst thing is, that then you get some people getting all vocal and saying they rock and own the zone, when in fact it isnt that they are good at pvp, its the build they have picked.
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Builds dont make good scrappers, its about players. Good villain players would own the zone if there were mediocre players on the opposing side, given about equal builds and player numbers. One of the problems I see that most regular PVPers still seem to favor hero side. When ive been in sirens ive seen it being controlled by villains and heroes alike. Usually the side im on, o.O even if I try to switch sides to the weaker side always. LAtely ive been PVEing my blaster to 50 though.
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I think scrappers are actually killing PvP, in Sirens at least.
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Try playing a squishie on the hero side then you'll see the same problem can be attributed to stalkers.
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I was on a team the other night, we worked together, there were double the villains to heroes, about 8 to 4, but because they were all scrappers we got owned over and over so everyone left through boredom in the end.
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In this case you can't have been working as a team. In warburg a team of 2 blasters and 3 defenders(empath,kinetic,force field) can take on just about anything.
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They are way too powerful, specially the spines, and I cant see how it can be much fun for them either as they are just picking up easy kills all the time. They all have superjump which isnt as easy to lockdown as flight, so they bounce about all the time.
They need to either cut the range of their ranged attack, or make it non-minus fly, possibly make some powers minus SJ to even it up a bit too.
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I agree impale could do with a nerf. I'll re-iterate here. It's got greater range than all blaster primary high damage attacks, does more damage than energy's power burst and sonic's shout and almost as much as ice's bitter ice blast and fires's blaze - combined with the other effects, toxic damage, it's a bit OTT.
I don't think scrappers are 'overpowered', but since the toggle drop changes, it's very difficult for a blaster to take one out one on one.
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Or maybe, just maybe, people could try making something other than scrappers for a change or is that too much like hard work?
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To be honest, i see alot of other heroes in the zones. In SC especially. Warburg is another matter and any squishy needs more squishy support to be successful.
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You can hardly call the old version of toggle drops "balanced" though. I remember fighting any blasters was an excercise in futility, because I'd have one toggle down. As a DA I have running: 3 shields, CoF, Acro, CJ, and FA. Once mez protection or acro was down, I would be holdable, then EVERYTHING goes down.
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Try being a blaster when everything goes down anyway as you ran out of breakfrees, could have brought greens/reds/yellows/purples but can't as you need all the break frees as you have no mez protection to drop!
*snip*
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And to the OP: Stalkers are ludicrously powerful in SC. This levels out by RV, since they can't just hit and run a big target like a scrapper or tanker, they can just shrug it off and fight back too easily. Stalkers in RV take more skill to play well than your average SC ganker has no chance of matching.
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They can still gank the squishies, and do so with alacrity and regularity.
*snip*
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I think scrappers are actually killing PvP, in Sirens at least.
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Ive been going to SC with my scrapper and i all ive seen on villains are a couple of brutes the rest are stalkers.(so i didnt actually see em till they killed me)
from what ive seen there is more variaty on the hero side with the ATs being used.
That said defs and trollers usually leave after getting double AS'd for the 15th time.
I've seen all kinds of dangerous 'alternative' AT's in SC, there's something or some way out there to defeat any AT.
For example, my 'squishy' blaster makes a good target you'd think... but and Aid Self or a green later, an AS is worthless as the NRg powers unleash! Oh no -Fly, you have to come in close for me to Bonesmasher you? Okay, job done. Same goes for my villain attacking an 'unsuspecting' troller or defender... he can be owned by them too, pvp has too many factors.
As it goes, I don't have a pvp or main pve scrapper anyway, (my claws/regen was awesome in the RV test though... 
) i'm happy with my blaster... for now.
The way your AT is played goes a long way. I've seen several FotM's played by a variety of player experience, a rubbish player stating "I will own all with my new Spiney!" usually gets creamed quickly, whereas a balanced defender played by a pvp king will threaten anyone and back it up.
People have erred away from the Stalker since they were deconstucted BUT, a decent stalker won't let that stand in his way No sirree.
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Hero side has a lot more varoty than villain side, every jokers got a stalker and if im honest I have played the AT to death and they no longer interest me, theres nothing more to be done with them.
A telling difference between good stalkers and the many many wannabees who claim pvp godhood is simply who stays the moment an empath comes into the zone, 70% of the stalkers in SC will clear out in the 1st 5 mins. A stalker which relies on purely hide+stealth and AS isnt much of a pvper imo.
In the last few days there seems to be a tank renaissance in SC as they have outnumbered all other alts and there havent been many scrappers on at all.
It all comes down to the fact that we see varied ATs on the hero side far more than the villain side which is nigh on always 80% stalkers
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
In this case you can't have been working as a team. In warburg a team of 2 blasters and 3 defenders(empath,kinetic,force field) can take on just about anything. - Kronos
Yeah but the you are basing this on WARBURG, where you have all your powers. My corruptor does better there as I have my debuffs too. And we were working as a team.
"Hero side has a lot more varoty than villain side, every jokers got a stalker and if im honest I have played the AT to death and they no longer interest me, theres nothing more to be done with them.
A telling difference between good stalkers and the many many wannabees who claim pvp godhood is simply who stays the moment an empath comes into the zone, 70% of the stalkers in SC will clear out in the 1st 5 mins. A stalker which relies on purely hide+stealth and AS isnt much of a pvper imo.
In the last few days there seems to be a tank renaissance in SC as they have outnumbered all other alts and there havent been many scrappers on at all.
It all comes down to the fact that we see varied ATs on the hero side far more than the villain side which is nigh on always 80% stalkers " - Stalkobot
Sorry Stalk but I disagree.
Maybe on Union they are mainly stalkers, I wouldnt know, but on Defiant, I dont often see stalkers now.
On Defiant the figures are the other way around, hardly any stakers and mainly scrappers on the hero side of late.
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This thread makes me kinda sad.. I am new to CoH and in most games I tend to play a medium level melee or tank character. Its just the style I have always played. In linage2 I had a dark avenger and a gladiator, in warcarft i had a warrior (heavily damage specced one)
It is quite simply the style I enjoy. Now just recently arriving in CoX I initially played a brute, suited me down to the ground. Sturdy character, massively high damage output. Great. Though my major beef with it was the reliance on rage. As I understand it they have a lower damage multiplier than the scrapper until they have around 25% rage. Which isnt really possible to generate in a pvp environment.
Being a huge pvp fan in all games, this was my reason for trying the scrapper. It suits my playstyle to the ground, good damage, not made of cloth.
I then decided what primary/secondary I would like. My initial decision went with spines. Not beacuse I read it was easymode, not because I think it was the best pvp, I really didnt know much about the set other than I was attracted to the looks. I know alot of people hate the looks but I thought it had a very cool spin on just regular attacks. Upon further investigation into the set I didnt hear that it was the be all and end all of pvp, no. I learned that it was a brilliant AOE set, which solidified my position thinking that it could aid the leveling process.
secondary, yes.. I picked regen. Why? Because its one I couldnt have on my brute, I heard good comments about it, and it seemed logical to me if I was going to be pvping as I intended to, with stalker burst damage I was going to need self healing abilities to fight them effectively.
So yes, I ended up as a spines/regen scrapper. I love it, I'm only in my 20's but I am fond of both the trees and how they play.
So what is the point to this little story you ask, simple. It disappoints me that I made decisions based on what I found attractive at the time, what playstyle suited me and low and behold, I end up as a statistic fotm who will probably get alot of disrespect in pvp because of my choices.
On the other hand its kinda nice to know my choices were good and I will perform impressively. None the less, being considered an easymode class is not something I set out to achieve when I created him, and it discourages me from playing it even though I love it in thinking that I will be considered lame, or a skillless noob in the pvp that I so hope to participate in.
Can I not be a skilled pvper with this set? A valued team member, respected one. I dunno. I dont want to give up what I enjoy but at the same time I hate being lumped into that majority who took it for an easy ride.
My first and still main PvP toon is an elec/energy blaster. By many people who don't know that I've had this toon at level 50 since i3, I get the same comments about being a "fotm noob" (not that elec/ has ever been fotm) as soon as they have their face to the floor.
I now also get the same comments about my spines/sr scrapper.
Ignore these people. They just need an excuse because they lost and can find no other reason except that you beat them.
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I've been in sirens call a lot recently and I've noticed that about 75% of the heros or villians there are either scrappers or stalkers. No this is not a whine but simply a discussion do you agree/disagree what do you think? I myself have been playing cov for about 2 months now (never played coh) and have started to pvp much more being an ice/rad cor is a fun build to play while pvping. I've also pvped in rv and bb (for shivian shard) warburg dosn't really suit my taste but sirens call seems to be the main pvp zone. Just wondering what people think about this.