Thats just because stalker AT's seem to create a lot of sloppy players, who then think that stalkers are underpowered when it comes to the crunch. The skillful stalkers stand out, because it seems there are so few of them that truly excel or even seem to know more than the very basics.
It goes both ways, clear-minds and other quick +perception powers do have a habit of nullifying stalkers ability to hide, but stalkers ability to nullify -players- kind of makes it needed. Its an arms race, where when the hide strength escalates to the point of no-detection, the detection strength escalates to give themselves a fighting chance. Its a see-saw thing, stalkers really like hide, and non-stalkers really like being able to hit the instant mass-damagers. The gray area is very small, and casual players in the hide/detect equasion are instantly squished. You need godly amounts of perception and godly amounts of stealth to be effective amongst people making an effort. The ones who are ahead by even a little, often have the major upper hand. The game of nullification is a harsh one. xP
4stalkers vs 2blasters and an empath eh?
Anyone want to play gank the empath 
And how do you do that when hes flying invised above the blasters :P
Everyone talks about how to see Stalkers... But the stealth pool isnt for stalkers alone. The only thing i wish for, when playing chap is that all the people that scream 'CM/Fort pls!!!!!' would actually think of empaths when PvP respeccing and pick up grant invis!
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And how do you do that when hes flying invised above the blasters :P
Everyone talks about how to see Stalkers... But the stealth pool isnt for stalkers alone. The only thing i wish for, when playing chap is that all the people that scream 'CM/Fort pls!!!!!' would actually think of empaths when PvP respeccing and pick up grant invis!
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And having +perception isnt a hero only thing, neither is fly...There are stalkers who can see straight through superior invisibility and indeed through other stalkers Hide+Stealth in warburg.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Dark armour, Ninjitsu and super reflexes all have +perception. Throw in black scorpion patron power OR web grenade temp powers OR fly temp power OR fly travel power OR impale, the empath is owned
Not to mention tp foe 
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Dark armour, Ninjitsu and super reflexes all have +perception. Throw in black scorpion patron power OR web grenade temp powers OR fly temp power OR fly travel power OR impale, the empath is owned
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Your quoting form theory. Im quoting from practice. Dont see many stalkers taking the time to fly, find me and execute an AS when 1) I can see them, 2) The blasters in my team can see them, 3) Interrupt on Fly is annoying, you have to be absolutely still to execute an interruptable power, hence i get a few more seconds to react, 4) Chap has Air Superiority. Which commonly lands the squishy stalker amongst my trigger happy teamates below.
Oh, and please throw in a Patron power in Sirens Call and see how much use that is. 
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Dark armour, Ninjitsu and super reflexes all have +perception. Throw in black scorpion patron power OR web grenade temp powers OR fly temp power OR fly travel power OR impale, the empath is owned
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Your quoting form theory. Im quoting from practice. Dont see many stalkers taking the time to fly, find me and execute an AS when 1) I can see them, 2) The blasters in my team can see them, 3) Interrupt on Fly is annoying, you have to be absolutely still to execute an interruptable power, hence i get a few more seconds to react, 4) Chap has Air Superiority. Which commonly lands the squishy stalker amongst my trigger happy teamates below.
Oh, and please throw in a Patron power in Sirens Call and see how much use that is.
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He didn't say patron powers, he said temp powers (u know, those u can buy from the contact at the entrance). Besides, air sup is pants for -fly when compared to ranged impale.
Quoting from practice, i can say that a spines stalker, or any other with tp foe, doesn't need to fly to hunt fliers. In fact, heroes with flying are the easiest prey, since they dont have a quick way to run away. Besides impale and tp foe range are both longer than 10 ft, which is the radius where someone with perception cap would spot me
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Dark armour, Ninjitsu and super reflexes all have +perception. Throw in black scorpion patron power OR web grenade temp powers OR fly temp power OR fly travel power OR impale, the empath is owned
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Your quoting form theory. Im quoting from practice. Dont see many stalkers taking the time to fly, find me and execute an AS when 1) I can see them, 2) The blasters in my team can see them, 3) Interrupt on Fly is annoying, you have to be absolutely still to execute an interruptable power, hence i get a few more seconds to react, 4) Chap has Air Superiority. Which commonly lands the squishy stalker amongst my trigger happy teamates below.
Oh, and please throw in a Patron power in Sirens Call and see how much use that is.
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Please feel free to drop by sirens on defiant, my flying spines stalke is more than adept at ASing targets in the air, indeed it is one of the more fun things to do in the game As for air suping stalk into the waiting throngs of heroes below Im afraid that Stalks superspeed is quite fast enough Besides which I could just impale you and drop you into the hoards of villains waiting below......
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Dark armour, Ninjitsu and super reflexes all have +perception. Throw in black scorpion patron power OR web grenade temp powers OR fly temp power OR fly travel power OR impale, the empath is owned
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erm....why bother with all the effort, u only need to poke us and we die, u giant n00b! ;D
roflmao 
True.
"Like War_Hero said, leave it as it is, it toughens up the softies." - Naz Nomad
Union Heroes
War Borg - Leader of The Paragon Knights
Union Villains
McCabe - Co-leader of The Rogue Knights
Defiant - Supreme Hero
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Dark armour, Ninjitsu and super reflexes all have +perception. Throw in black scorpion patron power OR web grenade temp powers OR fly temp power OR fly travel power OR impale, the empath is owned
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Your quoting form theory. Im quoting from practice. Dont see many stalkers taking the time to fly, find me and execute an AS when 1) I can see them, 2) The blasters in my team can see them, 3) Interrupt on Fly is annoying, you have to be absolutely still to execute an interruptable power, hence i get a few more seconds to react, 4) Chap has Air Superiority. Which commonly lands the squishy stalker amongst my trigger happy teamates below.
Oh, and please throw in a Patron power in Sirens Call and see how much use that is.
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He didn't say patron powers, he said temp powers SNIP...
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Learn. To. Read!
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Throw in black scorpion patron power
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Point is - my empath build makes it Difficult hunting for Stalkers. 10feet is 10feet. TP Foe pulls you out of stealth. All these things you suggest are great! Stealth cap? Ill tell you exactly how many people are at the stealth cap in SC on union... Erm - Zero. Not enough team work. Not enough people taking Grant Invis.
So - i refer back to my previous post. Im quoting from practice. Indeed, spines stalkers immob is a pain. But 25 Break frees go a long way! (Prompting: 'iNsPirAti0nz R 4 n00bs! I'd So PWn yOu wi7h0ut Insps!!!')
I think everyone agrees that 1vs1 an empath is supposed to get owned by everything in sight. Please forgive my hearty broadcast laughter should you ever try it and fail!
There is a lot of arguing about empaths here. Empaths make a great addition to any pvp team...
Well, a well played empath anyways.
However, having an empath isn't the be all an end all.
We did very well in s4 having a rad/rad defender. We knew our strenths, and our weaknesses, and played accordingly.
interesting, doesnt all this discussing of "stalker does this to empath" "empath does this to stalker" "stalker reacts to empath with this" etc kinda proves the point that PvP aint as linear as your previous example stated?
Oh and I dont think you should fear the immob from spines, its rather that nasty -fly (which i think breakfree doesnt solve, but could be wrong)
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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There is a lot of arguing about empaths here. Empaths make a great addition to any pvp team...
Well, a well played empath anyways.
However, having an empath isn't the be all an end all.
We did very well in s4 having a rad/rad defender. We knew our strenths, and our weaknesses, and played accordingly.
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Of course! No arguement, and both Nikta and Chaplain are parked in SC a the moment. Nikta is more for solo pvp, chap needs a team. Also, Nikta doesnt do well when the zone is well populated. I can use my Debuff toggles, but I have to stay IN THEM with my target to be safe from stalkers and brutes, which is bloody hard. Small confined spaces and 1vs1's and Nikta is a lot of fun. SC is a toughy when its busy. I find Empathy less relevant for Hero vs Hero pvp because of the whole stealth stalker thing. CM was never asked for from a none squishy before the advent of stalkers. Now all i get in PvP zones is 'Triple Stack CM on my Pls!!!!'. Gets quite boring doing that. Especially when the buggers run half way accross the map before asking for it.
This isnt a whole debate about Stalkers vs Empaths. The Stalkers are just becoming defensive about the whole perception debate. The original point, is that an Empath, managed to provide 2 blasters with enough tools to down, repeatedly, an onslaught of 4 stalkers + 4 other assorted villains.
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[...] He didn't say patron powers, he said temp powers (u know, those u can buy from the contact at the entrance). [...]
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And how often can villains purchase those temporary powers again? I've seen the zone in villain control very few times .
Thats cuz most villains that go there are stalkers and brutes who like to engage heroes more than do the hotspots
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Oh and I dont think you should fear the immob from spines, its rather that nasty -fly (which i think breakfree doesnt solve, but could be wrong)
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Nope you cant break free from -fly, -jump, slows etc
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
The problem with the empath/blaster team is that the empath is key to it all. Whether the empath has invis or is flying is irrelevant as they're both very easy to bypass... With teamwork.
Swap one of those blasters for a second empath or a tank to make the empath harder to gank and you're talking a whole new ball game however.
As mentioned, the real problem with some stalkers is their perceived 'uberness' when there are actually so few who are really that good. Stalkers can be split into two classes, those who can kill you thanks to hide and those who can kill you regardless of it they have hide available due to +PER.
The sad fact is the first group, any old fool can play with and do well, the second group are few and far between.
Well i have a spine/ninj on union and she pwns alot but stalkers are only really good at ganking to be honest but i have seen hero teams with empaths blasters and scrappers together i get near the empath and i get sniped by the blasters and defenders while getting impaled and Kbed (no prtoection from kuji in rin to kb 
) so u can say that all chars can pvp and i've seen tankers pwning loads of ppl my m8 is a fire/ss and he has perma rage and burn on loads so u cant AS him without feeling his Burn. have u seen a /Sr scrapper btw if they have their defenses 3 SO slotted for defense ive seen someone have like 6 stalkers all ASing and unfortunately missing him while the brute is trying to SMASH! the scrapper and got a few measly hits in on him.
Just my opinion
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Well i have a spine/ninj on union and she pwns alot but stalkers are only really good at ganking to be honest but i have seen hero teams with empaths blasters and scrappers together i get near the empath and i get sniped by the blasters and defenders while getting impaled and Kbed (no prtoection from kuji in rin to kb ) so u can say that all chars can pvp and i've seen tankers pwning loads of ppl my m8 is a fire/ss and he has perma rage and burn on loads so u cant AS him without feeling his Burn. have u seen a /Sr scrapper btw if they have their defenses 3 SO slotted for defense ive seen someone have like 6 stalkers all ASing and unfortunately missing him while the brute is trying to SMASH! the scrapper and got a few measly hits in on him.
Just my opinion
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Was that scrapper Stryka by any chance? Its my new one from the US (BS/SR) and I remember an incident like that from the other day, I manage to keep parry double stacked most of the time
The lack of KB protection in ninj is a problem as most will have to go for acrobatics which means sj for the travel which brings with it "problems" If you get web grenaded you are pretty much done for. I alwasy recommend speed on stalkers, they are stikers not scrapper and thats how I build them. Try a EM/EA in PVP gin, its a lot of fun and with my build you can run straight through hurricane with ET loaded and land a hit and be miles away before they even notice (also note EA has the best mez protection toggle in the game, immune to knockback, tp foe, repel etc etc.
Heres my build, I built it like this as I played it (not when i took the slots though ) and died very rarely and I did all my own missions too so didnt steal a few levels here to set myself up Its viable in pvp and pve so long as you play it right (run away lots )
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Stryka
Level: 41
Archetype: Stalker
Primary: Energy Melee
Secondary: Energy Aura
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01) --> Energy Punch==> Acc(1) Acc(5) Dmg(25) Dmg(27) Dmg(37)
01) --> Hide==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(33)
02) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(11) Rechg(27)
04) --> Barrage==> Acc(4) Dmg(34)
06) --> Assassin's Strike==> Acc(6) Acc(7) Dmg(7) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) Rechg(34)
08) --> Build Up==> Rechg(8) Rechg(11) Rechg(15)
10) --> Hurdle==> Jump(10) Jump(19) Jump(19)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12) Rechg(13) Rechg(13)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14) Run(15) EndRdx(40)
16) --> Placate==> Rechg(16) Rechg(17) Rechg(17)
18) --> Entropy Shield==> EndRdx(18) EndRdx(33)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20) Heal(21) Heal(21)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Stealth==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25)
26) --> Grant Invisibility==> DefBuf(26)
28) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(28) Acc(29) Dmg(29) Dmg(31) Dmg(33) Rechg(34)
30) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(30) Jump(31) Jump(31)
32) --> Stun==> Acc(32)
35) --> Total Focus==> Acc(35) Acc(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Overload==> DefBuf(38) DefBuf(39) DefBuf(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Pfft why do u give ur gimped build to that poor guy? .
Nah being a lil serious, 2 empaths and a blaster would be a real problem, 2 blasters and 1 empath is quite easy for 4 stalkers imo. Can always try tho if u are on defiant
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Fortunately the game (dispite people protesting when one build is played well) is pretty well balanced and there is ALWAYS an antithesis available, its just a case of finding it.
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Everyone should remember this, before they start screaming for nerfs.
As for people thinking that 4 stalkers can win against 2 blasters and an Empath..... I'd say it's possible, but it's more likely the blasters will win. Why? Simply because the Blasters and Empath are forced to team up while people playing Stalkers generally try to solo everything. The only time I've ever seen Stalkers use a coordinated team effort was when me and my SG where playing them. Guess what happened there...