Advice please from some "Senior Scrappers"?
By
BurningFist_EU,
Posted on: 2006-05-30 10:27 in Scrappers
Regen is the best defensive set (well, DA is on paper, but in practise it isn't without heavy support), as well as having QR which means you don't run out of endurance easily, which makes it good offensively as well.
Regen works very well with any of the primaries really so if it fits the concept you can't go wrong. SR I have heard is good for BS as BS's main draw back is its recharge/attack rate, SR comes with built in hasten in a way which helps combat this. However on paper I could see a BS/SR being quite end heavy. Invuln IMO is like the mule of the secondary, not much flare to it really but does the job.
So I'd say you are looking between Regen, SR or invul. I would say that SR is the purest of them (if that makes sense) I have an MA/SR and one of the reasons I went for SR was cos he does not really have powers but is well-trained in martial arts and thus in avoiding attacks. But then the same can be said for invul in a way, claming your hero is very durable.
In short I think you could explain SR and invul away more than regen, but any of these would compliment your broadsword.
I'd say for your purity, Super Reflexes would fit the feel of your character & suit your focus on the sword.
If you're interested in a great character background/orgin for a broadsword/super-reflex scrapper, talk to Plasmarch 
.
Both sets are pretty endurance hungry however, but then you do get a pretty interesting & not too common build in the deal.
Well, let's think about the origin for a moment. You've said magic origin. Well, then IMHO you don't need to worry about purity considerations. You can heal, regenerate, be shrouded in back clouds, fly, shoot beams with your eyes, whatever. It's magic.
Personally I'm a fan of Regen, mainly because of QR. With QR and Stamina you can be pretty much on infinite endurance, and keep attacking non-stop for hours once you have a full attack chain. Broadsword can be fairly end-heavy because of the cone and PBAOE attacks, so regenning that endurance right back can be useful.
Regen is also supremely easy and fun to solo at all levels.
On the other hand, as a Regen you're closer to a WoW "rogue" than "warrior". You're a damage dealer in a group, not a tank, not even a light tank.
SR... well, SR promises to be very powerful in I7, but SR is sorta the opposite of Regen. Instead of getting an endurance regen early, you get some powers which suck unholy amounts of endurance and don't even protect much until you're finally on SOs. So SR is going to be a freaking nightmare in the teen levels.
SR also completely lacks a heal, so you'll end up having to skip some powers to get Medicine. Again, it's something you won't even have power picks for until much later, so that's even more grind to get there. By comparison Regen gets a very nice heal right away.
SR also has a build in semi-Hasten, yes, but I wouldn't base a choice on that one. The sheer number of extra powers you have to take as a SR, including that semi-Hasten... well, let's put it like this: if you just took attacks instead of those, you'd have a full attack chain without it. And Broadsword has plenty of attacks.
Pretty much the only primary I currently see SR as being palatable to pair with is Dark Melee. Between DM's heal, endurance replenish and the accuracy debuff that stacks with SR's defenses, they seem to be made for each other. But since you've already picked Broadsword, that's out of the question.
Don't get me wrong, SR has its good points too, but you can count on at least 20-30 levels of being permanently out of breath before you can reap the rewards for that grind. Your decision if you want to put up with that for the later benefits.
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What I am wondering is my best choice of secondary?
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Regen....nuff said. 
@Willow R
Main Hero:
Willow R (Emp/Rad Defender, lvl 50)
Matakoshi (kat/regen Scrapper, lvl 50)
Thanks all for some excellent advice there. Particular hanks to Moraelin!
I am an impatient cuss and am looking for early effectivenes in this character so from the info in your post I can pretty much rule out SR.
I accept that the magic origin means I could justify any and all weird powers but I kinda figured on him simply having his fighting abilities enhanced to superhuman speed and skill, hence the "pure" broadswaord focus. Regen/INV/SR would all fit wih this of course but I think, to be honest that its gonna likely come down to REGEN in the finall call.
Thanks again for all the help folks!
Catch you all on the flipside!
Regen is CoH on "easy" 
But only if you get your build right. No stuns, no knockbacks and no downtime. You gotta love it.
And contrary to popular opinion; you *can* tank, but only certain types of mobs. Oh, and expect yourself to be the designated sapper-killer when you start meeting Malta.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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I am an impatient cuss and am looking for early effectivenes in this character so from the info in your post I can pretty much rule out SR.
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Funny thing i've found is that having done regen high and having had a sr up to 32 the sr was so much easier to play thru and much more effective than the regen at the lower levels pre 16 and pre so's.
SR doesnt have to be an end drain, nor does broadsword, as long as you slot to fit and fight clever.
Plus, SR gets its status protection at 10, not 16. priceless.
@ExtraGonk
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What I am wondering is my best choice of secondary?
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Regen....nuff said.
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SR....nuff said :P
A Paragon Defender
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What I am wondering is my best choice of secondary?
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Regen....nuff said.
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SR....nuff said :P
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says the guy with two regens 
Regen is for winners
SR is for nimmers
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I am an impatient cuss and am looking for early effectivenes in this character
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a regen scrapper is a little gimpish until level 16 and integration. before then you have a couple of clicky heals and fast healing but you can still be very squishy compared to "normal" defensive sets who get some sheilds early on. you just need a few big hits quickly whilst your heals are charging and you're in trouble. i'm not saying that it's terrible at lower levels, but it's not the most satisfying of sets.
then you get integration at 16 and it's like a different game 3 slot it with heals at 17 and you are regenning pretty damn well and have great status protection.
i don't want to sound negative about regen here, i just want to impress upon you the importance of getting it up to level 16 before deciding it's not for you.
I love my Regen. It rules.
On a more serious note, i have no experience with other secondaries. I love Regen, plain and simple.
For me, Regeneration gives you the ability to be the crazy scrapper i always want to be. Wait for the team? wait more that 10 seconds between each mob? hell no! Regen has so little downtime, especially at higher levels when you're fully slotted with SOs. BUT! beware. Regen scrappers can very easily be one-shotted. Its happened to me more than once (thank you Infernal, you son of [censored]!), and i've seen many scrappers go down in one shot during my time to 50 with Willow. While I love regen and would pick regen over any of the other secondaries, you can be VERY tempramental. you have no +def or +res excluding Resiliance which gives a tiny +res, but an auto res to disorient (very useful after popping an awaken). Also, with Quick Recovery you needn't worry about endurance at the lower levels! The only troubles i came across were in he low 20s til i got stamina, and that was with the constant use of lotus drop and soaring dragon (i got stamina at 30). Regen also has the best Mez protection that i know of, cos of its +regen. The only mez protection which gets close to it, for scrappers, is that from SR which is a clicky, not a toggle. As its a clicky it means it can't be knocked off when your end drops (which it will against sappers. I swear they've made they far more powerful than ever before, they can take off ALL my end in one shot!). If the SR mez protection (name? sorry!) gave a +regen it'd be better than Integration, but as it stands regen still wins.
there are very few draw backs to regen that i can really think of. the massive +regen from fast healing and Integration means your health goes back to full in a few seconds (i think its about 30 or so from next to nothing), and the +recovery from QR (and better when stacked with Stamina) is a godsend for those of us who believe to scrap is to bounce around like a lunatic and hit stuff til one of you stops moving. Regen makes me feel invincible. +2/3 bosses seem like nothing. Hell, i tried to solo a crystal the other day! Failed, but i say it was cos of the minions around it. If the crystal had been on its own, i would've killed it. Especially when you get Moment of Glory at 38. Any room that the team goes "we're gonna get annihilated", just hit MoG and go and clear it. Then say "okay, you can come in now". I'd say pick Regeneration. cos basically, it rocks! 
@Willow R
Main Hero:
Willow R (Emp/Rad Defender, lvl 50)
Matakoshi (kat/regen Scrapper, lvl 50)
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On the other hand, as a Regen you're closer to a WoW "rogue" than "warrior". You're a damage dealer in a group, not a tank, not even a light tank.
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In the lower levels, you cannot tank, I agree there, however higher levels with DP, integration, IH and MoG, you can sit there soaking up the damage and smiling (admittedly not for too long, you won't be main tank, but if you want to be that, you should have rolled a tank in the first place), you can certainly tank for a mob or so if the main tank goes down etc.
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then you get integration at 16 and it's like a different game 3 slot it with heals at 17 and you are regenning pretty damn well and have great status protection.
i don't want to sound negative about regen here, i just want to impress upon you the importance of getting it up to level 16 before deciding it's not for you.
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I agree, regen pre 16 is a bit odd, relying on a clicky heal and slightly better than normal regen rate. At low levels don't underestimate the importance of reconstruction. This is your best survival power and should be slotted equally with recharge and heals.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
pre i6 i used to have dp on auto, now i have reconstruction on auto and keep dp for emergencies. As endurance is not really an issue with QR and Stamina, a nice steady burst of hp. (slot 3xheal and 3 recharge in both) sweet
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Regen is CoH on "easy" But only if you get your build right. No stuns, no knockbacks and no downtime. You gotta love it.
And contrary to popular opinion; you *can* tank, but only certain types of mobs. Oh, and expect yourself to be the designated sapper-killer when you start meeting Malta.
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*raises hand* Designated Sapper killer for my duo. I duo with......... A REGEN.
So why? Cause they have to hit me twice to fully sap me, two attacks hits a regen twice, usually takes a bit more than two for them to get me twice.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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Regen is CoH on "easy" But only if you get your build right. No stuns, no knockbacks and no downtime. You gotta love it.
And contrary to popular opinion; you *can* tank, but only certain types of mobs. Oh, and expect yourself to be the designated sapper-killer when you start meeting Malta.
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*raises hand* Designated Sapper killer for my duo. I duo with......... A REGEN.
So why? Cause they have to hit me twice to fully sap me, two attacks hits a regen twice, usually takes a bit more than two for them to get me twice.
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most of the teams im the sapper killer. +Res EndDrain ftw!
@Shift
Shift 50 DM/DA Scrapper ][ TTL 50 Kat/Reg Scrapper ][ Shabriel 50 Peacebringer ][ Ion Shift 46 Rad/Rad Corruptor ][ Thermal Shift 35 Fire/Fire Blaster
"A Scrapper is a lot like a chainsaw. Somewhat hard to handle, incredibly dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane."
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*raises hand* Designated Sapper killer for my duo. I duo with......... A REGEN.
[/ QUOTE ]Only when I don't have MoG up
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*raises hand* Designated Sapper killer for my duo. I duo with......... A REGEN.
[/ QUOTE ]Only when I don't have MoG up
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Stupid nonconceptual *mumble mumble mumble* power
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
So basically anyone but an inv scrapper or a non-MoG'd Regen scrapper can be the designated Sapper Killer
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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What I am wondering is my best choice of secondary?
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Regen....nuff said.
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SR....nuff said :P
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says the guy with two regens
Regen is for winners
SR is for nimmers
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Regen beats SR... but SR beats everything that beats regen
I don't even have MOG and I eat Sappers for breakfast with, say, my MA/Regen. Focus Chi while running towards the sucker, Eagles Claw, Crane Kick. Dead Sapper. Chances are good (60%?) he's Disoriented after the EC, so being that they take while to aggro, most of the time they don't even shoot at me.
And if I actually were worried about Sappers, I'd take Cobra Strike again, not MOG. *SMACK* One disoriented minion or Lt.
But honestly, even that's not the main trick. The main trick is to hit them first. Even if you miss once, all's still good if they're dead after they shot once or twice. (Pop a catch a breath if you got hit twice so you don't detoggle. Or just take the hold when soloing. Two minions left and a turret won't kill you.)
Pay attention to the sound, for a start. The Sapper jetpacks make a characteristic "*hissssssss*" sound. So you can know one is around the corner or up the stairs you're about to take.
Sprint+Swift goes a long way towards closing in before they shoot. Super Speed is even better, if you have it.
If you're not sure where around the corner the bugger is, pop a Luck and have a CAB ready. As I've said, even if hit twice, your endurance has to actually hit zero to get held.
More importantly, "know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to _run_." You have a short while before your endurance hits zero. If you have no chance of getting the Sapper before that (e.g., you got ambushed before even seeing where he is), use it to get the heck out of there. Hit the travel power if needed.
So basically there are non-MOG ways of getting a Sapper.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort zu::[/color]<hr />
i'm not saying that it's terrible at lower levels, but it's not the most satisfying of sets.
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Actually I did find it the most satisfying set at lower levels, because of QR. _Easily_ the most satisfying set.
Sure, my SR had shields and the Inv had damage resistance, but:
1) I was out of breath all the time. In I4 for example I'd run out of endurance as the SR just with the two actives and Sprint on, for crying out loud. And in I6, let's just say my shiny new SR with the shields on, now has endurance for a whole two groups of 2-3 minions when soloing before getting detoggled for lack of endurance.
Seriously, it's like playing The Amazing Asthmatic Avenger. I might as well go to the tailor and make that character fat, pasty white and pimple faced. And ask the devs for a "sucking on the inhaler" animation.
(No offense to the asthmatic or over-weight people, of course. They have all my compassion. Just not the way I picture a _Super-Hero_.)
2. Here's what really gets my goat: those shields didn't even _do_ much before SOs.
3. Mez protection? Yeah, SR gets that earlier, but before SOs it's not even possible to have it permanent, or not without 6 slotting it at the expense of your attacks and respeccing the slots out later. So in terms of who gets a _permanent_ mez protection, Regen wins by, oh, 4 levels or so.
I'll take the clicky heal instead of that any day, thank you very much.
just goes to show how diverse the scrapper sets, playstyle and opinion are, i was pretty much the opposite, going thru regen again i find it tiresome having to wait for the heals to recharge and some mobs just chew it up. the sr i did notice a difference even with nothing but endredux on the shields.
another point for weapon wielding scrappers, sr only makes you put the weapon away once, regen is every heal you do.
concerning perma protected, before 16 i'd have it as a clicky not on auto (brawls on auto!) so you use it when you hit the mobs that you need it against.
@ExtraGonk
Hi all,
When I7 comes on line and I have all the cossie options I intending rolling up 4 toons with a linked backstory. One of these is going to be a magic origin Scrapper with Broadsword as his primary set. What I am wondering is my best choice of secondary?
I want the character to be fairly "pure" in terms of his sword being his main attack. This means dark/fire/ice stuff is probably out of the picture. I was thinking regen would be useful but someone else has suggested elsewhere that Invulnerability might be better.
Any thoughs and pointers are greatly appreciated.
Thanx in advance.