Erm, its a PvP Zone. If a villain sees you, they are instinctively going to attack you, that is called PvP. Its not ganking, griefing or any other word. Its a PvP zone so anything goes. Get over it and stop whining.
I'm not whining, I'm commenting on people being a-holes to other people.
It's the base-camping, gloating and namecalling that gets me in the end. it's not being killed. It's the being killed by the same eight people over and over and over, and it's not one out of the four, it's all eight at the same time.
In my opinion, this is griefing and ganking and extremely bad behaviour, and it ruins the pvp experience for the people who is subject to it.
Other than the gloating and corpse dancing I cant say I see much wrong here. What you have to remember is that if there were more heroes than villains then the villains would be getting "ganked" (and I dont even see any problem with ganking when it refers to using your advantage of numbers).
What really impresses me though are opponents who stick around when severely outnumbered. Then when the tide turns I feel obliged to stick around through the hard times and give THEM someone to play against.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
I think the main problem is the attitude, newbie stalkers seem to think they are akin with god on the pvp zones and their broadcast behaviour reflects this. I will never describe myself as a good pvper but could easily batter these "uber stalkers" all the way around the zone and depending on how annoying the broadcast chat gets I will get a couple of people down and wipe the zone.
Stalkers in particular need to chill out and relax, enjoy not being seen and being able to strike with impugnity and ahve fun with the great people in the zone because you never knwo who you are annoying and which solo character they can get that can ruin your whole PVP experience. (A good spines/SR will ruin a stalkers day in Sirens as easily as a stalker can mess over a defender)
I have played stalkers A LOT more than most and they get a LOT of crap but these days they seem to be acting a LOT like jerks, I think we all just need to calm down and find the fun 
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
I think the main problem is the attitude,
[/ QUOTE ]
This is, as they say, hitting the nail on the head. Like I said, it's not the getting killed that bugs me, it's all the [censored] that came/comes with it. When you've been killed 14 times by the same four ppl, and then they start gloating and name-calling, the getting killed part does indeed become a problem. I'm not generally one to be talking about respect, but I honestly feel that other players should be respected in order to get a good game experience all around.
But the incredible lack of respect that comes from these n00bish stalkers is just getting way way out of hand. And you CAN be a noob stalker and still get kills by the handfull, because all it takes is to get stealth in addition to hide, and 75% of the opponents is not able to see you -no matter what they do-.
You are complaining about two things here, one, being outnumbered and two, trash-talking in broadcast.
There is not much that can be done when you are grossly outnumbered in the zone it happens to both sides. Generally when I'm in Siren's I either leave or stick it out until the sides even up, very rarely is there a perfect balance and sometimes you can hit effectively even when you are outnumbered. I'm not sure what either side is supposed to do when numbers are skewed. I know people who have toons of both heroes and villains will switch sides when it becomes uneven, many players don't have that option.
As far as trash-talking goes all I can say is it's actually very easy to entertain yourself by playing some reverse psychology, or ignore it; some players like to boast when they defeat others, they are poor players, the end. I like to boast when I am defeated, drives people nuts, or they think it's funny, or they put me on /ignore; result either way.
There's nothing particular to the villains side and stalkers, don't kid yourself. Controllers, blasters and scrappers behave in exactly the same way. I've had relentless name-calling, personal tells and badgering playing as a Dominator from heroes simply because they think it's unfair I should even be in the zone, since of course everyone knows Dominators are a rubbish AT and shouldn't have the temerity to show their beastly face in PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
Its a PvP zone so anything goes. Get over it and stop whining.
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Great solution!
Let's all stop caring when PvP becomes pointless for one side. Then we can just empty the zone and pretend it doesn't exist! Brilliant.
Being outnumbered is pretty bad, but being outnumbered by stalkers is absolute murder. If you don't have something like an interrupt aura, you're in big trouble. Most tactics that work against stalkers aren't very effective against multiple stalkers.
Fortunately, some of them are. What you need is a guy who can lay down some ice patches or the like - big area, slip up or knock back effects tend to help a great deal. I've seen how one hero with access to this sort of stuff can really galvanise the rest in the face of superior numbers. It's a sight to see, it works very nicely to let you fight enemies in a co-ordinated way.
The problem with stalker ganking, particularly multi-stalker ganking, isn't that you lose. It's that you don't get to play.
One time I found myself as a scrapper in a very similar situation. You would walk out of the base, get ASed by two stalkers and go straight to hospital. Every time you stepped out of the base.
What I did was challenge a brute to a one on one match. Try and make a bit of play happen. It was a bumpy road but we got our fight, he kicked my behind, lots of other people joined in the same idea on top of a building. Lots of play, lots of fun, even though there were about 3 villains for every hero.
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There's nothing particular to the villains side and stalkers, don't kid yourself. Controllers, blasters and scrappers behave in exactly the same way.
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Stalkers have an inherant survivability that many people incorrectly equate to their own "skill" but you are quite right, there are jerks out there regardless of ATs but its easier to stomp these when they are not TPing stalkers who can "pwn j00 all"
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
I spent quite some time in Siren's last night on Defiant, as a hero. In the beginning the sides were pretty much the same numbers, the hero side being slightly outnumbered and consisting of a couple of scrappers, a tanker and a couple of blasters. We held our own pretty well, but the sheer number of stalkers made it very hard. There were at least as many stalkers as there were heroes combined, plus a small asortment of other villain AT's (iirc there were one dominator, a corruptor and a brute).
It is very hard to get anything done when every time you attack you are standing still long enough to be AS'ed, and every time you get AS'ed there's AT LEAST two stalkers doing it, so there is NO WAY you can survive, even as a scrapper. I say this was pretty evenly matched, because it was the most matched fighting that happened all night.
After an hour or so, the heroes numbers hadn't changed, a couple people leaving due to the severe number of stalkers, and a few new faces coming in, but the number of villains had increased drastically. At this point there were 5/6 heroes, 6/7 stalkers, three MM's, a couple of dominators, corruptors and brutes. The hero side being horribly outnumbered we were pressed back into the base, with the entire cadre of villains hanging around within a couple hundred meters of the hero base. Every time we tried to break out of the base we got summarily ganked by every single villain in the zone, everyone of them wanting to throw a punch at the heroes. This is in my opinion bad enough conduct in it's own right, but then the gloating and the bragging started, the villains obviously thinking themselves teh ubar PvP'ers for bein able to keep us in the base. After a death there would be several villains gloating over the kill and standing around dancing on the corpses.
after a while, a couple of us heroes would try sneaking out and falling on the villains from behind with stealth and/or invis running, but as the stalkers get their +perception skills there were NO WAY we could have a hope in hell of surprising them. It was so bad after a while, when I stopped to attack a seemingly lonesome villain, I had FOUR [4] stalkers surrounding me in the AS position. Now it goes without saying that me being a blaster, only one or maybe if I got lucky, two of the stalkers actually got in their AS before I was dead.
And still the villains kept up the gloating, name-calling and "corpse-dancing". Is it really considered a good kill when 5 people manage to take down a single blaster? It sure seems like it, because the only villain in the whole zone that didn't participate in this was a corruptor called Dearch. Dearch, I salute you for your honor in PvP, cos there sure as [censored] isn't any other villains showing any.
And I am not exaggerating when I say there was between six and eight stalkers in the zone at the time. In the end, this was TWICE the number of heroes COMBINED. Now, the question I have is, if the stalkers are so lousy as all the people who play stalkers want us to believe, why the hell are there so many of them? The only answer I can come up with is that they ARE INFACT massively overpowered, and thus every NOOB villain is going to choose one, because they are so incredibly easy to get kills with.
Anyways, why is it generally accepted that people behave like spoiled children? Why is ganking accepted? What the hell has happened to common courtesy? Bad behaviour in PvP seems like the norm, and not the exception. Why isn't there moderators in the pvp zones when there OBVIOUSLY should be?
I used to pvp a lot, but when the new players found out how easy PvP becomes once they roll a stalker, the stalker population in the pvp zones exploded, and most of them being in my opinion BAD PEOPLE, I had no choice but to stop pvp'ing. I suffered severe withdrawals for a long long time, and finally this week I gave in and ventured into siren's again, only to discover that the problem isn't remedied, but has increased exponentially.
Ok. This probably doesn't happen every night, but it has happened three out of five nights I've been in there this week alone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was there for hours last night - what name were you using?
(I'd guess Sgt. Winter or Bio )
There sure were a lot of Stalkers about, but only one that I would regard as even slightly annoying - and even then, it was more down to the fact that he was unable to spell his favorite insult - and it only had four letters too 
I didn't see much corpse dancing - the Stalkers always went into hide mode the moment they made their kill
There was a lot of dancing outside the Heroes base, but that was just Max and Ob having a Nazi rave with their stormtrooper lackies 
The Villian numbers dropped a lot later on, so we moved the action to their base instead, 'cos it's not really fair for the outnumbered side to have to travel a long way to and from the hospital.
And back to the Stalkers - just think of it as a final, pre-I7 fling
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
You are complaining about two things here, one, being outnumbered and two, trash-talking in broadcast.
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No... I'm complaining about -one- thing. The griefing and the name-calling from the villains was a result of them outnumbering the heroes. The part about being outnumbered is something that can't be helped, and if you look at the title of this thread it should be pretty clear to you that -that- isn't the problem. it's the behaviour of the players.
Outnumbering and killing people isn't ganking and griefing in itself, but when you add in name-calling, gloating, base-camping and general bad behaviour, it turns into ganking and griefing pretty fast. (it's pretty much in the actual WORD griefing. Giving people grief. it's self explanatory.)
The only thing I sort of frowned upon about being outnumbered this badly, was that 80% of the villains in the zone were stalkers. Stalkers are so overpowered they should be an Epic AT, and not something every new player can just pick off the shelf the second they've installed the game. And when there is twice as many stalkers as there are heroes in the zone, this IS indeed a PROBLEM and should be looked upon by the devs promptly.
[ QUOTE ]
Let's all stop caring when PvP becomes pointless for one side. Then we can just empty the zone and pretend it doesn't exist! Brilliant.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what I honestly hope will happen, because it will force the devs to come up with a solution to this PROBLEM.
[ QUOTE ]
What you need is a guy who can lay down some ice patches or the like - big area, slip up or knock back effects tend to help a great deal. I've seen how one hero with access to this sort of stuff can really galvanise the rest in the face of superior numbers. It's a sight to see, it works very nicely to let you fight enemies in a co-ordinated way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Every single solution I hear to the stalker problem is specific sets or powers. People with these power(sets) isn't always redily available, and thus it's not a soulution at all.
Trash-talking should be done in a funny and humorous way - telling people they suck or questioning their sexuality does not fall into this category (unless, of course, it's said in such a way as to be obviously not serious )
You wouldn't really want a PvP zone where no one was talking, would you?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
And back to the Stalkers - just think of it as a final, pre-I7 fling
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean before they get their boost? Because I distinctly remember reading something from a redname about some boost or another that stalkers get in I7.
Ok, I'm going to assume you mean they will no longer be able to one-shot people, but to me this has never been a problem. it's the Plactate->follow-up that kills, and that problem is something that won't get looked upon.
[ QUOTE ]
Trash-talking should be done in a funny and humorous way - telling people they suck or questioning their sexuality does not fall into this category (unless, of course, it's said in such a way as to be obviously not serious )
You wouldn't really want a PvP zone where no one was talking, would you?
[/ QUOTE ]
Trash-talk is one thing, blatant insulting is something different alltogether. And it is possible to talk to people without insulting or disrespecting them.
I'm taking this all as a lack of proper upbringing, and parents inability to teach their children proper respect for other human beings. Because if this is adults behaving like this, this world is going to hell in a handbasket. If adults behave like this, there is something seriously wrong with them.
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I sort of frowned upon about being outnumbered this badly, was that 80% of the villains in the zone were stalkers. Stalkers are so overpowered they should be an Epic AT, and not something every new player can just pick off the shelf the second they've installed the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny how at the same time, Stalkers are complaining that the PvP game is now un-playable for them.
[ QUOTE ]
And when there is twice as many stalkers as there are heroes in the zone, this IS indeed a PROBLEM and should be looked upon by the devs promptly.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are or you aren't complaining about being outnumbered?
Try playing as a villain against scrappers or blasters or controllers when you're outnumbered.
If you're unhappy about the behaviour of players in the zone you should petition it. If you think the behaviour you witnessed is unique to stalker players you're kidding yourself.
I dont actually do any of that behaviour but its a pvp zone and i expect it, even the smack talk, flaming, winding people up business and the using the npcs to get people debt for fun or defence.
The reason i dont actually behave in that way is because there is no actual brilliance in anything, sharing a kill or taking a flavour of the month build, making it more pvp than pve and winning with it against a more pve specified build.
Villains are acting like villains imo, pvp has no rules and to win may require tactics (no matter how dirty) on both sides.
Its a pvp zone.
My one wish would be to see them played in as could be intended more like that night in sirens call where it was about winning zones but i still dont mind the pvp'in for fun business as some funny stuff does happen and some clever tactics does actually happen once in a blue moon.
When your ganked at your base and cant actually leave for being seen and instantly put back into hospital it does remove all reasons for being in the zone so whoevers outnumbered can stay out numbered and odds may even up if you could be teleported or have an undergound network of sewers (for heroes) or tunnels (for villains) to get out with and assemble elsewhere for a surprise ascension.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Villains are acting like villains imo,
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah - their dirty, sneaky, underhanded wickedness makes our cause all the more righteous
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
Villains are acting like villains imo, pvp has no rules and to win may require tactics (no matter how dirty) on both sides.
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I'm sorry for saying this, but "villains behaving like villains" is the most STUPID arguement in favour of acting like a-holes I ever hear. This is a GAME, and courtesy should be shown by and to both sides. This is a GAME, and so there SHOULD be rules and code of conduct. Having Player versus player with no rules is ONLY laziness from the devs, and nothing more whatsoever.
If your (I don't mean YOU specifically, just a general "you guys") idea of fun is to insult people and cause them grief, you should join a supporter club for football. Problem is, that people who think these things are fun are either children, or adults with serious personality problems and small you-know-what's.
[ QUOTE ]
Its a pvp zone.
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Yes. PLAYER versus PLAYER. There is actual humans on the other side of the avatar that you insult, gank and grief. respecting other human beings should be a requirement for being allowed in a pvp zone, but alas, this isn't so.
Poor behaviour towards other people only breeds more poor behaviour, and this is in my opinion the reason why it's got so much worse since last time I was in siren's.
I say again. PvP zones in CoX should be moderated, and griefing should not be tolerated. Griefing ruins the playing experience for everyone except the person doing the griefing.
[ QUOTE ]
Respecting other human beings should be a requirement for being allowed in a pvp zone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Damn, that'd be funny - it'd be like the "you must be at least security level x before you can enter this zone" window that comes up - imagine trying to enter Siren's Call only to get the message "You must respect other human beings before you enter this zone"
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry for saying this, but "villains behaving like villains" is the most STUPID arguement in favour of acting like a-holes I ever hear. This is a GAME, and courtesy should be shown by and to both sides.
[/ QUOTE ]
So don't imply that people are stupid.
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If your (I don't mean YOU specifically, just a general "you guys") idea of fun is to insult people and cause them grief, you should join a supporter club for football. Problem is, that people who think these things are fun are either children, or adults with serious personality problems and small you-know-what's.
[/ QUOTE ]
and again with the insults.
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Yes. PLAYER versus PLAYER. There is actual humans on the other side of the avatar that you insult, gank and grief. respecting other human beings should be a requirement for being allowed in a pvp zone, but alas, this isn't so.
[/ QUOTE ]
or on the forums apparently.
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Poor behaviour towards other people only breeds more poor behaviour,
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So take a chill pill and stop being so bloody offensive.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
Like I said. Bad behaviour breeds bad behaviour. If you can't accept this, then you shouldn't be able to accept "villains behaving like villains", because the argument is the same. I'm making a point, and you've not only missed the point, but underlined it. Several times.
Well, u cant expect a fair fight in the zones, nor can expect to be equalled numbered. Sometimes heroes outnumber villains and other times it's otherwise. If u want fair numbers u should go to the arena instead.
About the broadcasts, well i never been bothered about it, really. In fact it's a good way to make others come out from base , and besides some of the ones known to be fair PvPers do it too to find someone to play against (hello plight ). In short words, it's a game so dont get mad cuz of it
What what? i heard my name?
ah well, HEY I WPN JO0 ALL!!!1one!1two
50 blaster lf duels pliz 
and u missed red puton from ur alt list
Plight
P.S. PvP zones can be boring, so leave if they get that way, but griefing is not on and the culprits should be hunted down and suspndz0r3d!!1
[ QUOTE ]
If you think the behaviour you witnessed is unique to stalker players you're kidding yourself.
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The propensity of people to act like jerks is in no way limited to specific ATs but the ability to "hide" during hits turns normally easy going players into deluded miscreants. There is no other AT that spams so much crap over the broadcast when they are "newbies" with mighty pvp reps of 20 or so.
I usually know most in the zones and use the global ignore feature to confirm any suspicions. An example is here, I was playing against someone who I knew had just rolled a new stalker and was acting like an [censored], I was fairly sure they didnt know the toon i was on but thats irrelevant. They were sending torrents of crap over broadcast so I sent a PM telling them to chill and have some fun, I promtly received the obligatory [censored] then I told them who I was (as they knew me on others) cue silence then a couple of mins later I got a "oh yeah, I knew it was you, just messing, hows it going"
Know I know that jerks exist regardless of ATs but there does seem to be something about stalkers that delude people into thinking they are something they are not, Stalkers UNFAIRLY get a ton of greif but some sent far TOO MUCH back and theink they are great when they are not.
I love stalkers, playing them and playing against them (when all attitudes are great as they often are) STalkers are not overpowered or underpowered, its not often that I will sing the praises of the Devs but I think they got it bang on with this AT, its the players who need to "adjust" to the AT now in my mind.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
While I agree with most things in your post Stalk_Obot,
[ QUOTE ]
its the players who need to "adjust" to the AT now in my mind.
[/ QUOTE ]
This I just don't hold with. I've tried every trick that has been mentioned, and no matter how hard I try, I can't see stalkers with hide stacked with stealth. There's no way in heck. Before I respec'ed I had tactics, and this combined with IR-Goggles and two medium sized yellows still didn't allow me to see most stalkers. Even with CM most stalkers could saunter up to me and poke me, then que plactate and I was still none the wiser. Hide+Stealth, plactate, AS, very high defense, status protection, crit from hide, holds/immobs/disorients et cetera, more than decent scrappability and extremely short re-hide time is in my mind overpowered when compared with for instance blasters whose only weapon is damage. Blasters don't even get any defense powers aside from the lousy pool power defenses, and most of these don't stack with a travel power in the first place. Another hint that the stalker AT is overpowered you've already come with yourself: That any n00b with enough intelligence to pop a cd into the cd-rom is able to be highly successful as a stalker the first time they enter the PvP zones.
And it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about. Like I've said elsewhere, I have rolled a stalker and in one sitting I generated something in the vincinity of 50 rep. While this doesn't sound like much, it was done without stealth OR plactate in the first time I ever entered a pvp zone with said stalker. I was also lvl 22, and I was in Siren's.
But this wasn't intentionally an anti-stalker thread.
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Well, u cant expect a fair fight in the zones, nor can expect to be equalled numbered. Sometimes heroes outnumber villains and other times it's otherwise.
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LOL! Do you even read the posts?
EDIT:
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In short words, it's a game so dont get mad cuz of it
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Yes, it's a GAME, and I play it to have a good time, and my idea of a good time isn't getting [cencored] thrown in my face when it takes 8 ppl to kill me, neither is it to throw [cencored] in other ppls faces.
(lol. I had to self-cencor myself here. I expect the cencorship engine fried several posts back. )
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While I agree with most things in your post Stalk_Obot,
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its the players who need to "adjust" to the AT now in my mind.
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This I just don't hold with.
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Ah you ahve misread what I meant to say (via my own wording) I mean that people playing stalkers have to stop thinking they are almightly and something special because they are not, tactics is going to be a staple diet in RV and while i DO NOT BELEIVE stalkers will be slaughtered, they will have a harder time which is a good thing, this is how we all improve.
My alts are not fun for stalkers to play against so I know just how hard they have it, RV will be a defining zone IMO and I just jope the crap-talk will be kept to a minimum.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I spent quite some time in Siren's last night on Defiant, as a hero. In the beginning the sides were pretty much the same numbers, the hero side being slightly outnumbered and consisting of a couple of scrappers, a tanker and a couple of blasters. We held our own pretty well, but the sheer number of stalkers made it very hard. There were at least as many stalkers as there were heroes combined, plus a small asortment of other villain AT's (iirc there were one dominator, a corruptor and a brute).
It is very hard to get anything done when every time you attack you are standing still long enough to be AS'ed, and every time you get AS'ed there's AT LEAST two stalkers doing it, so there is NO WAY you can survive, even as a scrapper. I say this was pretty evenly matched, because it was the most matched fighting that happened all night.
After an hour or so, the heroes numbers hadn't changed, a couple people leaving due to the severe number of stalkers, and a few new faces coming in, but the number of villains had increased drastically. At this point there were 5/6 heroes, 6/7 stalkers, three MM's, a couple of dominators, corruptors and brutes. The hero side being horribly outnumbered we were pressed back into the base, with the entire cadre of villains hanging around within a couple hundred meters of the hero base. Every time we tried to break out of the base we got summarily ganked by every single villain in the zone, everyone of them wanting to throw a punch at the heroes. This is in my opinion bad enough conduct in it's own right, but then the gloating and the bragging started, the villains obviously thinking themselves teh ubar PvP'ers for bein able to keep us in the base. After a death there would be several villains gloating over the kill and standing around dancing on the corpses.
after a while, a couple of us heroes would try sneaking out and falling on the villains from behind with stealth and/or invis running, but as the stalkers get their +perception skills there were NO WAY we could have a hope in hell of surprising them. It was so bad after a while, when I stopped to attack a seemingly lonesome villain, I had FOUR [4] stalkers surrounding me in the AS position. Now it goes without saying that me being a blaster, only one or maybe if I got lucky, two of the stalkers actually got in their AS before I was dead.
And still the villains kept up the gloating, name-calling and "corpse-dancing". Is it really considered a good kill when 5 people manage to take down a single blaster? It sure seems like it, because the only villain in the whole zone that didn't participate in this was a corruptor called Dearch. Dearch, I salute you for your honor in PvP, cos there sure as [censored] isn't any other villains showing any.
And I am not exaggerating when I say there was between six and eight stalkers in the zone at the time. In the end, this was TWICE the number of heroes COMBINED. Now, the question I have is, if the stalkers are so lousy as all the people who play stalkers want us to believe, why the hell are there so many of them? The only answer I can come up with is that they ARE INFACT massively overpowered, and thus every NOOB villain is going to choose one, because they are so incredibly easy to get kills with.
Anyways, why is it generally accepted that people behave like spoiled children? Why is ganking accepted? What the hell has happened to common courtesy? Bad behaviour in PvP seems like the norm, and not the exception. Why isn't there moderators in the pvp zones when there OBVIOUSLY should be?
I used to pvp a lot, but when the new players found out how easy PvP becomes once they roll a stalker, the stalker population in the pvp zones exploded, and most of them being in my opinion BAD PEOPLE, I had no choice but to stop pvp'ing. I suffered severe withdrawals for a long long time, and finally this week I gave in and ventured into siren's again, only to discover that the problem isn't remedied, but has increased exponentially.
Ok. This probably doesn't happen every night, but it has happened three out of five nights I've been in there this week alone.