I never expect to be power levelled.
My pb was useful at level 1 and although ive only recently started to feel powerful in human form (level 27), I was able to contribute massively as nova with build up and using radiant strike a lot.
the knockback is annoying. I have 3 aoes that do knockback and it can mess up a herd quite nicely 
.
However, most experienced people know about using walls to contain knockback, or to fly above the mob so knockback becomes knockdown to the floor.
I'd say you've played with some rubbish kheldians basically.
My pb is the only reason I still play coh.
The abilities Khelds have in the lower levels (travel power straight out the box, cosmic balance giving big boosts, nova form being far more effective than a blaster at that level) means they are great fun early on. Plus it has great posing value whe you switch to Nova in a level 6 team of newbies and they all go "Ooooh, what's that?!" 
I can't say I've noticed Khelds asking for PLing more than any other AT tho.
Actually I have to admit that I do see a disproportionally large amount of low level kheldians sidekicked up in teams. But honestly, I think it's just the fact that they already have a 50, not that the AT they're playing is a kheldian. Does that makes sense? Some people just don't feel like going through the low levels again, whatever the AT. Maybe the AT makes it easier though, since it's a bit like walking credentials. I know I get more global friend requests in PUGs when I'm on my PB than with any other toons and as incredible as the PB is, I doubt it's all because of skill.
I actually thought my peacebringer was great at low levels. Travel power right away and Nova at level 6 is just uber. I don't understand why people would want to PL more than on any other ATs as they seem to be specifically designed to make low levels go smoother. I guess someone skipping Nova might have worse time of it, though.
It seems like it, but it's often because, for PLers, a kheldian is like a sign that writes 'I have a level 50, be proud of me', that can also yell 'PL ME NOW!'
However, most of them are very nice and some of my best friends have a kheldian rolling, some *cough*raz*cough* has both of them at level 50 *cough*double*cough*. It's all because they are fun and, indeed, epic, if you can use them.
@Double
Double Flame 50 fire/devices
Double Shade 50 tri-form warshade
Double Light 50 dwarf-human peacebringer
Double Control 50 earth/rad
[ QUOTE ]
It's all because they are fun and, indeed, epic, if you can use them.
[/ QUOTE ]
/seconded 
As a person who has just got a kheldian for the first time, (lord Blue hit 50 on wednesday!! YAY!!), I can't say that I'm even vaguely interested in PLing as such. I'm interested in teams, and if it means SKing to a level 5 or 6 higher than my own then I'll do it but by no means am I interested in SKing to level 20s or 30s just to level quicker.
I'm not sure if thats just me, but I'm really enjoying the whole thing of the epic archetype and the game feels brand new again. I have however accumulated a good global friends list as well as a lot of SG friends so there is always the possibility of helping out with someone elses missions which is a different argument altogether.
When I made my PB first off a lot of my friends were still in Peregrine fighting AVs and naturally they asked me along. Nothing wrong with that.
But the way most ATs develop and become so much more effective as they get higher levels just doesn't seem to happen with khelds. They're great when you start and they carry on much the same for atleast as far as Ive gone with mine. (33 so far)
So really I see no advantage to Power Leveling a Kheldian.
I'd spent the last five levels with my troller grabbing every XP I could to get to 50. Coz lets face it, you're not going to see any major changes or improvments to your char at that point.
By the time I hit it and got my PB I was ready to relax and enjoy the game again.
Maybe some people just get into the habbit of rushing through their levels in the high 40s and forget to relax and slow down.
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As a kheld, do you need to powerlevel the first 20 odd levels before things start getting fun? Is that why we never see kheldians in the hollows LFT? (ok they might avoid the hollows, but you know...)
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Hi-Firstly I personally found the first 20 lvls essential to learn how to play a kheldian and great fun to. As stated before pre 20s-nova form is great for damage, and fantastic for hunting mobs in the hollows. Teams seem to me very appreciative of the damge output u can provide at those levels and consequently I found I shot up the levels without the requirement of a powerlevel. Again post 20 and post dwarf I personally find it much more effective and fun to team with others on invicible for example for xp.
I think you do however find more khelds sked up in high lvl teams. There is I think a generally good reason for this. If other khelds are like me there are about 10 people on global friends that are very good mates (a few that I have teamed with now for the 25lvls on coh and 40 on cov). These people want to team with me and I want to team with them. We dont farm mishs we dont try to power lvl but I do admit that my warshade may have some badges that she shouldnt have lol.
DD
esselburns:
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When I made my PB first off a lot of my friends were still in Peregrine fighting AVs and naturally they asked me along. Nothing wrong with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dark_Dom:
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These people want to team with me and I want to team with them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity... If you had rolled a scrapper, say, would you still have joined them with it, or changed back to your 50 to actually be able to help?
I, personally, wouldn't take any of my toons that were so far removed from the levels of the team into a mission with them. Granted an SK solves that, but there's no way that you're there to help with the mission, right? Your powers would be slotted with trainings, maybe DOs, which (AFAIK) don't scale up to SOs, and you have far fewer powers that can be of a great deal of help.
If I had dinged 50, and then taken my PB/WS in with my old 49 team, I would have felt like a leech. No I'm not saying that you should or would, but that's how it would have felt. Not only that, but if I had instead kept my 50 out we could have worked on dinging their 49s, then starting a whole new host of level 1s, be they khelds or otherwise, to do the trip again. Or even staying on as our 50s, to do the final story arcs and help our other friends up.
If there was more content at 50, I'd still be mostly playing Tech Tower. I played through all the arcs I could find with Tech (bar the World Wide Red one, which I'm holding - near the end - to help the some 'Union Badgehunters' get the Master of Olympus badge), and since I'm not a huge PvP fan, I'm playing other toons instead.
enforcer:
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I'm not sure if thats just me, but I'm really enjoying the whole thing of the epic archetype and the game feels brand new again.
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Interesting statement. When I dinged my first 50 (Skull Bender, ill/emp controller), and started playing Tech Tower, everything was fresh and new. Then when I finished him off, and started Satisfaction (& other alts), it once again felt like meeting a bunch of mates I hadn't seen for ages (... and beating them up). I guess my point is that yeah I know where you're coming from, but I think that's due to not doing those levels for such a long time, rather than the fact that it's a kheldian. Maybe the PL ones are the ones who have loads of alts going at once and just want to skip it because they are seeing the content forever at once? Hmm interesting.
Shrug.
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esselburns:
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When I made my PB first off a lot of my friends were still in Peregrine fighting AVs and naturally they asked me along. Nothing wrong with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dark_Dom:
[ QUOTE ]
These people want to team with me and I want to team with them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity... If you had rolled a scrapper, say, would you still have joined them with it, or changed back to your 50 to actually be able to help?
I, personally, wouldn't take any of my toons that were so far removed from the levels of the team into a mission with them. Granted an SK solves that, but there's no way that you're there to help with the mission, right? Your powers would be slotted with trainings, maybe DOs, which (AFAIK) don't scale up to SOs, and you have far fewer powers that can be of a great deal of help.
If I had dinged 50, and then taken my PB/WS in with my old 49 team, I would have felt like a leech. No I'm not saying that you should or would, but that's how it would have felt. Not only that, but if I had instead kept my 50 out we could have worked on dinging their 49s,
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Hi again-Great points-I did team with my 50 and help toons ding from 49 as u suggest and I did that with my brute as well. I do not personally ask for this favour in return but if a friend invites me and is prepared to sk me in nova or tank form AND I think I can survive and help without being a liability then I will mish. As I stated I do not think that a lvl 6 sked to a 49 is a particularly satisfying or easy way to get xp, and therefore if u and FRIENDS freely agree to participate in such an arrangement for fun and enjoyment-sorry but fair enough. I am in full agreement with you if however you ask for sks and generally become an annoyance to everyone in an sg/coalition/world and affect there game. Then I agree you are becoming a leech and are not a team player.
Just out of interest and to widen the debate do you support influence transfers or any other perks between your high and low alts to speed progress?
I got a tell from a stranger in st martial last night asking for his lvl 4 mastermind to join my lvl 39/40 team.
Fortunately rather than get into a possible morality debate followed by a "you suck" comment for refusing him an invite i could just flat out tell him "no" because no one could sk him.
Low levels in high level teams lessens the chance for other high levels to find teams and for lower levels to find teams and for low levels to learn from experienced people. Poorly balanced teams are only of benefit to those causing it to be unbalanced.
It also means you are most likely giving as easy ride for someone who will forget you the moment they no longer have a use for you.
Just because someone has a lvl 50 br/regen and has rolled a low level doesnt mean they know the game. They might know something about the game from a scrappers perspective and little more. I prefer to know people who really grow to know their toons through alot of experience and not end up teaming with 50's who you have to explain things to for the benefit of themselves and the rest of the team.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
We're talking in very vague terms here if we're talking in terms of being SK'd up to the high 40s. I agree that generally if you've not got SOs then odds are you're going to struggle - but then; SO WHAT? The game is WAY too easy as it is and if your high lvl mates want your low lvl Kheldian to come along then go and give not one jot to the space you're denying to some poor high lvl toon who's looking for a team.
I've played on A LOT of pickup groups and 95% of them are DREADFUL. I would rather take a low lvl toon belonging to someone I know to be a good player than an unproven high lvl toon.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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However, most of them are very nice and some of my best friends have a kheldian rolling, some *cough*raz*cough* has both of them at level 50 *cough*double*cough*. It's all because they are fun and, indeed, epic, if you can use them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Naaah, Raz doesnt got both lv50 khelds cuz they r fun. He has them to fullfill his ego (someone said something about khelds as walking credentials).
And then again, PL? I didnt even TEAMED with mine, soloed all way thru till lv28, then started teaming (before that i didn't think it would be good enough and i got a reputation to keep u know 
). Obviously on permadebt until lv20 and dwarf (damn quant/voids, it was orgasmical owning them easily with dwarf tho 
)...
Having said this, I think the only 'epicness' on khelds is the look sooooo good, all those flashies and shadows... yay!. But any other AT is more valuable in practise IMO.
[ QUOTE ]
I, personally, wouldn't take any of my toons that were so far removed from the levels of the team into a mission with them. Granted an SK solves that, but there's no way that you're there to help with the mission, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Did it today with my Brute. Level 5. My girlfriend and a couple of friends were running missions and having a nearly 40 dominator and too many alts to count I was quite sick of seeing the newbie levels again and soloing through them.
So I got SKed up to level 39. Then when the friends left SKed to my girlfriend to level 38.
As for not helping with the mission, this may be that Brutes are just good at this, but once I picked up steam and with various team buffs I was pretty much still an asset. In fact while duoing we came across a pretty nasty named werewolf form archon. I died twice and raked up debt helping my gf to kill it, and it was two shotting her henchmen and took 4 or 5 shots to kill me.
I kept it on the ground when I hit, my fury shot up, and I did solid damage. She wouldn't have been able to take it if it hadn't been for me.
Probably a flimsy tale, but just goes to show even a lowbie SKed or LKed up to high levels can be there to help, not just stand back and sponge up xp. If I'd been there for that, why would I've racked up debt trying to tank bosses way past my abilities?
I think the worse part was having to have people escort me to mission doors rather than slacking off when actually inside the mission.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the worse part was having to have people escort me to mission doors rather than slacking off when actually inside the mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point, since this is what the Kheldians can avoid, having a travel power at level one.
If you were earning debt fighting the wolf you shot up levels rather quick
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Two points to cover here. Firstly, It took nearly 18 months to get my first toon to 50 because I'm such an altoholic. I have tried so many different types of character, some I've loved and others I've got bored with and deleted. For me, the game is there to be played for fun not just to ding as quickly as possible. I'm now learning how to play a kheld and loving the fact that I'm going to "screw up" my build at some point. I know the general thrust of how to build a good solid build for the other ATs and now I have the fun of learning all over again what works and what doesn't (for me). In all honesty, I need the low level play to get a good handle on the epics, the same way I needed them when I was a newbie with the others.
The second point is that ultimately, SK is allowed as part of the game concept. As a function, it is perfectly acceptable. That said, the way people use it can be abused. If it is between people who know each other, either in game or real life, nothing is off limits. You want to help your mate power level past the boring bits of the early levels? Thats entirely your choice. Your girlfriend is online with a level 30 and you have a level 10 and you want to play together? Feel free. What people do consensually that doesn't affect other people is perfectly acceptable in my opinion.
The opposite side of the coin is where someone is being annoying and is begging the high levels to PL their low level. If they don't know the other players in the group. or haven't been specifically invited then it is wrong. When we were doing an AV mission the other day we were having problems without a tank. There weren't any of comparable level online so we invited a tanker of late 20s to play. He got an SK up to 49 and all the buffs we could throw at him. Technically it was power levelling but it certainly wasn't leeching. He saved us all numerous times with his aggro control and didn't die once as we kept an eye on him. I'm not saying he wasn't able to hold his own as he could, but we felt responsible for his safety. We had fun, the player of the tank had fun, and it was a group decision to invite him. At the same time we had a couple of /tells from people under level 14 wanting to join our team and get an SK. As a group we decided that they were too low and refused. Our choice, and a different set of players in the team might have made a different choice.
[ QUOTE ]
So really I see no advantage to Power Leveling a Kheldian.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the whole point.
I needed 4 respecs on my WS to find out a build I like to play, is effective and found out the best way to slot powers and when/how to use them.
Kheldians more than any other AT need to be played to understand HOW to play them, if you just PL them you'll end up with a useless and gimped toon due to the severe slotting and power picking issues you can get.
On the OP subject, I don't think Kheld will request PL more than any other AT.
Altho back in I4 the AT I've seen more in PI before lvl 30 was the PB...
I think what I want most in my WS will actually be the new missions they have, otherwise any other level 1 toon would do for me after I get 50
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Never had the pleasure of teaming with many Kheldians on my way to 50 but I did bump into one that seemed to spend most of the time "answering the door" or the phone or somesuch.
[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity... If you had rolled a scrapper, say, would you still have joined them with it, or changed back to your 50 to actually be able to help?
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutly would have taken the new toon. I said they wanted to team with me, I didn't say I was effective. If I want to play a fun game I don't need to pay £8.99 per month. If I want to play a game with a community I play CoH. Toons effectivness is secondary to having a good time.
[ QUOTE ]
Toons effectivness is secondary to having a good time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted for truth.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a level 10 Brute to take to an Infernal fight.
[ QUOTE ]
We're talking in very vague terms here if we're talking in terms of being SK'd up to the high 40s. I agree that generally if you've not got SOs then odds are you're going to struggle - but then; SO WHAT? The game is WAY too easy as it is and if your high lvl mates want your low lvl Kheldian to come along then go and give not one jot to the space you're denying to some poor high lvl toon who's looking for a team.
I've played on A LOT of pickup groups and 95% of them are DREADFUL. I would rather take a low lvl toon belonging to someone I know to be a good player than an unproven high lvl toon.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont have a problem with the idea of mates staying together its the people who make 50 or say they have on another server and seek high level game from people they dont even know in order to powergame. A little bit of fast xp never makes a bad player out of anyone, constant fast xp can do in my book. Just because you have made a good defender say doesnt mean you will make a or play a decent warshade. Whats the point in having a lvl 50 but not knowing enough or having played enough to even come close to being as good as you can be.
I dont like the idea of carrying people or people getting to 50 not having much of a clue as to what their doing or what they can do because they've had someone else doing their job in teams for them and things happen and they dont even know how, what or why it happened. (For example low level tanker in a team with another tanker whose doing all the tanking).
I know the game is social but its a game too lets not forget the game part, the game would be easy to someone who has been in good teams all the time and not tried to make a good team out of a bad one.
Avoiding PuGs is just being L33T, i dont avoid them but its a case of i have to make them in order to get a balanced one. I have met my friends over time through them, i can make more friends through them, to avoid them is tarnishing everyone with the same brush and to not be there to pass on experience or gain any from other people. There are PuG players that may start missions completely shammy but learn to work together and move onto other teams with that added experience. There are people who are simply say" i pay, i play, my way - even if it means i cause teamwipes! " who are simply best avoided (could be those 95% of people actually:P). If your unsure about the type of PuGs you are joining then make the teams yourself and keep them balanced. Anyone that doesnt fit in by constantly refusing to cooperate for the good of the team just kick them. Thats what the kick buttons are for. Id much rather not sit here and confine anyone new to being a noob, sad fact is for me i often find the its sometimes the noobs who have 50's who turn around and say "I have a 50 there is nothing i dont know" then kills the anchor first. Its often the new people who are looking to adjust and willing to cooperate. The amount of people with level 50s playing new toons in PuGs who are absolutely shockingly bad is astonishing, some peoples powers do work against other peoples and it creates problems - "my caltrops under a tankers feet cant be a problem i have a 50 i do know this game"....that just makes me grrrr.
I'm prepared to team with new people, to try and learn new things and i look for people who also give what i have to say a chance or allow me the proper chance to go about things my way.
The game would be easy if you only team with the same people but i prefer to team with lots of people as i'll probably learn more.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont have a problem with the idea of mates staying together its the people who make 50 or say they have on another server and seek high level game from people they dont even know in order to powergame. A little bit of fast xp never makes a bad player out of anyone, constant fast xp can do in my book. Just because you have made a good defender say doesnt mean you will make a or play a decent warshade. Whats the point in having a lvl 50 but not knowing enough or having played enough to even come close to being as good as you can be.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aye, this was along the vein of my original post. I wouldn't join my lvl 50 mates with a lvl 5, but some do, and it's their games and they can play that way if they like. If it were against the EULA, then SKing would only work within a 10 level difference or so... Hmm.
But it has irked me when low kheldians ask for high teams. Like outside their circle of friends. Or when a high level joins my team... with an sk'd low level. Like the only reason why this person joined was to find a good team to PL his/her SK.
Next time I get a request like that... I'll reply with a 'Oh I know what, you go get out your level 50, and I'll bring on my level 5 defender and team with you! Weee!'. Anyone got odds on whether this option would be accepted? I really doubt it
I gotta spend more time in FBZ. That cuts down all PL requests.
Shrug.
Ok the subject may be a little misleading. But I do find it amusing...
I was reading through the 'Guide to teamfinding' or whatever it was called, and the subject of a lvl 14 PB asking a lvl 50team to invite it was up there.
So.
I understand that people who have high level PB/WSs find them great, and that's fine, I'm not trying to rip on them. Personally I haven't been able to get into them and they vanish pre-15ish, and I think that everyone agrees that's also fine. I mean lots of people can't get into various ATs, I just find khelds the hardest to.
With that in mind...
Is the best thing about having a kheld, being a high level kheld? I teamed with a very nice PB last night, level 28 or so (with my then-29 scrapper). She kept messing up my herds (with her knockback), so my AoEs kept missing, doh, but had a nice li'l heal, which I'd never seen a PB use before... But she was playing it properly, and not looking for PL.
As a kheld, do you need to powerlevel the first 20 odd levels before things start getting fun? Is that why we never see kheldians in the hollows LFT? (ok they might avoid the hollows, but you know...)
Recently I've found myself dropping the occasional person from my global friends list. Why? Let me give you a scenario.
I'm on as Tech Tower, and in a random PUG, which is fun. I'm a good tank, and will sometimes get a gfriend request from some of the team. If they seemed fun, then great! Then something weird happens... While running around as Tech later on, I get tells from them (usually as kheldians, but oft as other ATs) in the form 'Hey mate, it's <blah>, can I join your team and get an SK?'. A quick glance at global friends shows them as level 6 or something ridiculous, so they will recieve a negative response.
On the other hand I'm happy to help most people with things. I know I'm very effective at level 6, where as I know that you won't be, even SK'd to level 49. You won't hit anything, you won't do much damage if you do..
But aside from that.
Is it just me or do low kheldians ask for random PL far more than other ATs? And when I get asked for such services, there always seems to be and underlying feel that I should be obligated to do it, because they obviously have a 50 and that gives them some right? I mean most PLers will just ask to join a team... and then you /sea them and find they are a lvl 8 scrapper or something... but a kheld will come right out with that info 'Got room for SKing a PB?'.
Shrug.
Anyway, I'm hoping this doesn't read as an assault on all khelds, as I don't mean that. Granted I don't particularly like to play them, but I've tried to put that aside. Just trying to work out why it seems a higher percentage of khelds are far more willing to /tell for PL than other ATs, and why it always seems to me they consider it a right when they do...