I dropped some suggestions for the mastermind patron pools here. But upto yet there has been little comment on them. Anyone got any comments on the powers I suggested? or ones to suggest yourself.
I have just read your suggestions, but I must say that I don´t like them too much.
These effects would be quite powerful, so in order to balance them they could only grant miniscule amounts of boost... and that way they would be hardly worth taking because we have better tools in our primaries and secondaries.
And I think I already mentioned that I would not be looking forward to having another pet buff. My robots are already strong enough to clear normal maps on highest difficulty without much interference (other than orders) on my behalf, so how much fun would it be to make them even stronger? (And I don´t really see them transforming into Coralax either.) I don´t have to be able to go afk while my little helpers do Infernal. (Warning: slight exaggeration 
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If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Man it's hard for brutes and masterminds to chosoe, but I have just made a necro/dark MM and if I were to get him to lvl 40(highly doubted) I would choose ghost widow's, Maybe her dark embrace, soul tentacles and soul storm.
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soul tentacles
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You indirectly get that through your liche, do you really feel you need yourself casting it too?
I don't think melee powers are the way to go either since you're then doing exactly what you're not supposed to and putting your MM in direct combat and I don't think even the new bodyguard thing will make us near strong enough to be leaping right into the fray regularly.
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I have just read your suggestions, but I must say that I don´t like them too much.
These effects would be quite powerful, so in order to balance them they could only grant miniscule amounts of boost... and that way they would be hardly worth taking because we have better tools in our primaries and secondaries.
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Not really. They could be excessively powerful and still not unbalance the game. Just look at unstoppable or MoG. Both very powerful moves. Each has weaknesses and recharges that stop them from being game ruling powers.
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And I think I already mentioned that I would not be looking forward to having another pet buff. My robots are already strong enough to clear normal maps on highest difficulty without much interference (other than orders) on my behalf, so how much fun would it be to make them even stronger? (And I don´t really see them transforming into Coralax either.) I don´t have to be able to go afk while my little helpers do Infernal. (Warning: slight exaggeration )
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My thoughts on the patron pools where that they would be more like the Epics from the heroes side. The would flesh out what you don't have, but since Masterminds are already a bit 'jack of all trades'. It is difficult to see how the can be fleshed out without stepping on the toes of the primary/secondary combinations. My Mastermind is necro/dark. All I can see the patron powers doing is duplicating things I already have or don't want/need. My thoughs were that if you cannot give something that they don't have then supercharge the ones you do have.
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soul tentacles
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You indirectly get that through your liche, do you really feel you need yourself casting it too?
I don't think melee powers are the way to go either since you're then doing exactly what you're not supposed to and putting your MM in direct combat and I don't think even the new bodyguard thing will make us near strong enough to be leaping right into the fray regularly.
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What are you on about, dark embrace is a protective shield, and soul tentacles and soul sotrm are good holds, which will help in both PvE and PvP to keep my mastermind out of harm's way.
Whenever I've ventured into Siren's Call I've found that by the time you get in range for a hold (or any non-pet attack for that matter) you've usually already been spotted so I don't think they'd be as useful in PVP as you're expecting.
I gues only the armor would be good in combo with that new damage-sharing. With a 10% per mob, you can hit nearly cap resist. PvP people have to focus your pets first again, but like assasins have unresistable damage in their strike.
But i dont know, i never did recent pvp with my MM
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That's why I think they really should've given us a sniper shot power, it's one MM's really could use, without going completely against all MM common sense (plunging into the middle of a fight just so we can use some pitiful power).
Agreed on that one. But with my current MM I'm not gonna use attacks, so I'm not picking up any of the patron powers for my MM.
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Agreed on that one. But with my current MM I'm not gonna use attacks, so I'm not picking up any of the patron powers for my MM.
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Know how you feel, have 1 hold power from my dark 2ndary, and the dark healing power from the same set, and the first two attacks from the zombie MM set. That's more than enough direct involvement in the battle IMO, the only reason I'd even care about patron powers would be if they helped in PvP, where MMs do seem to just be moving bullseyes.
So I suppose a nice set would be:
hide/stealth type power
Sniper shot type power
Area effect knockback, centred on MM
Area effect Immobilise, centred on MM
So the only ones which have even one power which I might consider at the moment would be Scirocco (3rd power) and Black Scorpion (1st power), and in both cases they require aiming at an enemy. The reason I give for the effects to be centred on you would be that they can allow a quick getaway when surrounded or getting pummeled by something big. I know there are a few cone attacks in the patron sets but that limits how many enemies you can use it to flee from.
The hide/stealth power, better to pass un-noticed when ordering your pets about, not really something new to a MM, since we can use the power pools for it, but still useful.
What do you guys think?
Well, as you say, not only can MMs get a stealth power from the concealment pool, but /Dark MMs like yourself have one in their secondary, so I'm not sure why you'd want access to a 3rd.
"I know 653 ways to kill a man. Fist to the face is #56."
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hide/stealth type power
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A bit like shadows fall? Which you already have in your secondary.
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Area effect knockback, centred on MM
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Your liche has a cone knockback already.
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Area effect Immobilise, centred on MM
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You could just use fearsome gaze which is a semi immob and a tohit debuff.
You see thats the problem. The primary/secondary combinations and the powers of your minions can cover the majority of powers. The sniper attack is the only thing that a Mastermind does lack.
The patron pools are full of powers I cannot see a use for. I usually play as a debuffer while my pets rip the enemy apart. So I have few if any blasts (at work atm and can't remember my exact build) they draw aggro to me instead of the fodder. So more blasts would be more aggro which would be more deaths. The armours and shields are of little use as I don't draw much aggro due to letting the pets get on with the slaughter while I debuff. Even the new little feature-ette for masterminds (passing damage onto your minions) strikes me as something I will get very little use out of. The minions are there to take the abuse not me. If I am not getting hit then shields and damage pass on are useless.
Suggested rebuild for Mastermind Patron Pools...
AoE Immob (As per current)
Self Shield (+Def as per current)
Snipe (Superior damage, as per Defenders)
Third Hench Upgrade (grants Patron-themed power to henchmen - hold or immob maybe)
Now that's not too different from what we have already - but feels much more in keeping with our set.
I just really don't like the single-target hold as the final power that requires two pre-reqs.
Replace AoE immob with something else and I could agree with it, that power is the only one I don't like in the current sets.
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Third Hench Upgrade (grants Patron-themed power to henchmen - hold or immob maybe)
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This is out because of the huge abount of work required 3 levels of henchman x 4 patrons x5 sets = 60(!) new versions of the henchmen, each requiring new AI which has to be carefully tested to make sure it still works with any upgrade (another 4 possible combinations). Plus the work increases exponentially whenever a new powerset is added.
Swap the immob for a snipe and rearrange the order and you have something much more workable.
I really should do something about this signature.
Non of the powers appeal to me another upgrade or summon would have been nice though
Not very inspiring powers, they should have used more time on developing something better than the current "copy to all" approach.
Sure, I could use a shield personally. Provided the effect is subtle and lag free. ( Yeah right. Haha. )
The rest of the powers just feels a bit generic, and not tailored for MM's at all. :-)
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i've had a think about the patron powerset, my MM is a technology themed guy and the only powers that fit in with him are mace and mu, the fish one kinda looks sucky and soul really doesnt match technology.
Firstly, the mace one has rattled my cage a bit because i really dont want these powers:
Web envelope - stops people from running/flying/jumping off , ok but it doesnt do any damage compared to the other imob making it less affective than the others also AoE not cone i prefer cone because i can control it more.
Scorpion sheild: eh? defence! i need resistance not defence, dodging a few shots wont save me in battle.
Mace beam volly: Great more agro...
Web cocoon: same as web grenade but a single hold, ok i can see it being partally useful in boss fights if u can get a couple in before he closes on you but not that likly.
Over all i'm disappointed with the tech-style PPP, i was expecting something like another pet from it or a decent buff, but instead i get agro imob and a hold. Not that good tbh lets hope the the Epic powersets or whatever are better.
Actually Defense is probably better for a MM than resistance. Resistance is better when you have a good chunk of hp, a self heal and mez resistance.
With bodyguard, resistance only reduces the damage you take, your bodyguards will still take the full whack, however Defense will protect your bodyguards as well.
I really should do something about this signature.
What I don't understand is the argument that a) "I don't need attacks, that's what my pets are for, and if i get any aggro I die", followed almost immediately by b) "A shield? What are you thinking? I don't attack, so I don't get aggro, what use is a shield to me?"
Am I being obtuse or does a + b not equal a solution that allows you to be more use to a team? I.e, I take a patron pool attack, this allows me to contribute more to the damage output of the team. I take a patron shield, which makes me more survivable, and able to handle the aggro generated by my use of the patron attack.
Surely more attacks from MMs themselves, and the ability to handle the aggro from using those attacks makes masterminds *much* more of a potent force, in PvE and PvP? 
I'm especially looking forward to the patron pools for MMs, as I think they offer something extra that will make my MM even more powerful.
I don't have problem with attack or shield, or a hold for that matter, but could take something actually useful instead of the AoE immob...
well, there is that 
But i daresay someone will find an inventive use for it that will change opinions on it (perhaps for when the fire corr goes Inferno? hmmm. using it with bodyguard to take the aggro from the dominator who just used their aoe immob? Using it as single target immob + -fly for PvP? some ideas to play with maybe...)
AoE immobs a re a bit rubbish on any AT apart from a Controller who can use it to set up an aoe contaiment attack. I respeced it out of my dom quickly enough.
Swap the aoe imob for the snipe/waterspout from the Stalker set. Make it the 4th power and move the others down one. Sorted.
I really should do something about this signature.
As it would seem, all we get thats no other class gets, is dark scorps Blaster staff thing, but its a cone shape attack.
While everyone else gets a pet, so they can basicly take away what makes MM a great class. -_- Why not give us some Mastermind ONLY melee attacks, such as the ability to use Dark Scorp's staff as a wide range axe, or anything like that.
Would make sense if your giving pets to non pet classes.