[ QUOTE ]
If N=1.5xE
When N=150, E=100; 50 point difference.
When N=75, E=50; 25 point difference.
When 3B>N, then 15 seconds of stun is not fun.
[/ QUOTE ]But it's still propotionally the same, and in this case N=5*E (12,5 BI vs 2,5 BI), which is a big difference in DPS no matter what the numbers.
[ QUOTE ]
No Energy Blaster would use Nova on an AV/or PvP/or on a Timed Mission/or where he was soloing unless he was showing off; so why would you take this Tier 9 power anymore?
[/ QUOTE ]
Can't comment on PvP, but:
* A Nova would barely have scratched an AV even before ED
* If soloing it's the one that you miss completely that kill you (so no ED-related change there either)
* I can't for the life of me see why you wouldn't use Nova on a Timed Mission, pre- or post-ED; you get 30 seconds inactive in return for masses of damage for a big crowd, and unless you're only catching 4-5 in the boom that's going to speed things up whether the mission's timed or not.
With BU + Aim my main's ED Nova flattens minions up to orange/red (depending on villain type), yellow/orange leuts and gives bosses and higher leuts a bad headache. Anything I hit but don't finish off tends to go flying, allowing me to scamper off backwards and wait for the end to come back while the rest of the team clean up.
So to answer the question, you'd take Nova for when you're on a team and not actively fighting an AV, which seems like it covers a lot of territory to me. 
(Don't like several aspects of ED, but also don't think it's rebalanced/debalanced the Energy primary in any significant way.)
Well, N=5xE with 17 seconds unavailable.
E+B+Bl can be cycled every 2 seconds.
Unless N can provide a greater one shot damage, then it's useless in comparison.
Tier 9 powers should be Heavy Hit, Long Recharge, Special Effects.
Now it's just Long Recharge, Better Effects, Less Damage.
definately weak set, only thing that is worse is prolly archery, although archery does have faster animation times 
But yeah people say AR/devices is the stalker hunter, its the */devices that makes it stalker hunter not the AR.
Although the gun and snipe is wickedly cool.
Oh yeah as for sonic, its awesome single target monster i have a sonic/nrg it owns, read the US boards to see how good sonic blasters are, brute's where complaining as it cut through their resistances. They are unknown. People rank ice and fire as the best, sonic is up there next to them, in single target its better than fire. Only problem is animation times hoever whirlwind negates that. Think of it this way with sonic res debuffs, its possibly for sonic to go past damage cap, Coupled with */nrg your looking at a force to be reckoned with.
(Hope me saying sonic rules doesn't turn it into a cookie cutter build 
)
[ QUOTE ]
You seem in a bit of a bad mood today Syn. Have another coffee, seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not in a bad mood in the slightest, I'm just disagreeing with you. Don't confuse my lack of sugarcoating on my words and lack of 
as my being angry or in an otherwise negative frame of mind, I'm just making my points plainly and clearly. And I don't drink coffee unless it's heavily disguised.
[ QUOTE ]
As I can pump Explosive blast, but pumping Nova has less effect as I'm already closing on Damage Cap; then using two /three Explosive blasts is cheaper/more efficient/safer/faster/less chance of danger/less annoying than one Nova.
[/ QUOTE ]
MaX already cleared up the first part, so I'll leave that alone; on the second part, I'll just say that the chances of you firing off three EBs and hitting every target every time (hence keeping the same DPS) is going to be damned difficult - not only because of the way accuracy works, but because of the Knockback inherent in EB. Seriously, those mobs are going to be everywhere after the first blast, you've got no chance of keeping up the DPS in the manner you stated.
[ QUOTE ]
For a Tier 9 power to do similar effects to a Tier 6/7; but to cripple you at the same time seems wrong to me; as you could just chain Tier 2/4/6 (for instance) and acheive the same effect of the Tier 9 with none of the associated risks.
[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of the preamble to this point is far too generalised to really debate properly, so I won't bore myself and everyone else by nitpicking through the specifics. This quote, however, is just plain wrong - for burst damage, no other primary power will come close to matching the nuke, either in Single-Target or AoE damage. As a result, there's a penalty to pay - but one that can be avoided by swallowing a few blues - which is hardly "crippling".
[ QUOTE ]
And I really don't post this on every other posts; a lot of mine are constructive; well-meaning or just silly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whenever the subject of ED comes up, you generally pop up with an "ED " comment - which is a shame, because I enjoy reading your posts otherwise (be they silly or constructive). If you have a point to make on any given subject, throwing in (what appears to be obligatory by now) "ed sux" at any point just tends to detract from anything you have to say. The ED-donkey's getting liquefied at this point; unless we all want mule-smoothies, it would really be best just to let it seep away.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Fair enough. Good points made, but I'd still see Nova as a complementary power now rather than a must have power; as it's effectiveness in most situations is limited at best.
Given that this is an AR discussion though; probably best to say we disagree on that point.
My problem is that a number of the 'changes' have been as a result of heavily swayed arguments and just because something has become 'canon', doesn't mean that those of us that don't like it should bow down to it's almighty rule.
If ED had promised what it's title suggested, it would have been a godsend. Enhancements that can change the personality of the character; what it seemed/seems to be is a heavy-handed force towards easier numbers to deal with.
Meh. For every Hooray, there has to be a Doooom; and maybe it's better to keep saying "It wasn't that good" rather than just "I'm leaving and taking my friends."
As for the 'swallowing a few blues' counter; should we really expect that every major change means we should respec/ store needed inspirations? That makes it far more a number-crunch than the original game ever was.
[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. Good points made, but I'd still see Nova as a complementary power now rather than a must have power; as it's effectiveness in most situations is limited at best.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I know I don't have it on my En/En - I've never had it (apart from playing about on Test), and never planned on taking it... and Doctor Gonzo has the Celebrant badge, so I'd tender the point that every power is, has been, and forever will be "optional".
[ QUOTE ]
My problem is that a number of the 'changes' have been as a result of heavily swayed arguments and just because something has become 'canon', doesn't mean that those of us that don't like it should bow down to it's almighty rule.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither does it mean you should bring out the famiy hyperbole at every available opportunity. 
There's nothing wrong with having and voicing a differing opinion - but "zomg ED sux 
", as these things invariably devolve into (in general, not targeted at you), is hardly a valid opinion. Likewise, a reasoned argument requires no emotional exclamation mark to further its validity.
[ QUOTE ]
If ED had promised what it's title suggested, it would have been a godsend. Enhancements that can change the personality of the character; what it seemed/seems to be is a heavy-handed force towards easier numbers to deal with.
[/ QUOTE ]
What it has done is to level the playing field to allow those who do not furiously min/max to be on a par with those who do. In addition with other changes, it's helped to shorten the distance between "t3h ubz0r" builds, and wacky concept builds. It's also made the game more challenging in places, which I'm very much in favour of.
[ QUOTE ]
Meh. For every Hooray, there has to be a Doooom; and maybe it's better to keep saying "It wasn't that good" rather than just "I'm leaving and taking my friends."
[/ QUOTE ]
There really doesn't, you know. It might seem that way, but there's no reason why we have to have this carry-on every time something gets changed. As to the latter part of the sentence - sometimes it's certainly debatable in certain cases (again, not pointed at yourself).
[ QUOTE ]
As for the 'swallowing a few blues' counter; should we really expect that every major change means we should respec/ store needed inspirations? That makes it far more a number-crunch than the original game ever was.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... that's always been the case for Nova powers, Weez, not anything that has been introduced by ED. The only reason that you might not have needed to use Insps prior to ED is because everything was already dead, letting you recover in peace - now you need to put a little more thought into it, which is far from number crunching, and much more along the lines of strategic gameplay. Is that really so bad?
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah as for sonic, its awesome single target monster i have a sonic/nrg it owns, read the US boards to see how good sonic blasters are, brute's where complaining as it cut through their resistances. They are unknown. People rank ice and fire as the best, sonic is up there next to them, in single target its better than fire. Only problem is animation times hoever whirlwind negates that. Think of it this way with sonic res debuffs, its possibly for sonic to go past damage cap, Coupled with */nrg your looking at a force to be reckoned with.
(Hope me saying sonic rules doesn't turn it into a cookie cutter build )
[/ QUOTE ]
I remeber when I siad sonic would be a killer build for PVP and people told me to shut up nice to see that what I have said would come to pass has.
No point into turning this into the Weasel/Synaesthetic show but one point made me wonder.
[ QUOTE ]
now you need to put a little more thought into it, which is far from number crunching, and much more along the lines of strategic gameplay. Is that really so bad?
[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I want to think, sometimes I don't. That's why I chose a blaster. ED removed some of the more strategic ways I can play and often resorts me to Kobi Yashi Naru.
That is bad, whatever happens.
[ QUOTE ]
No point into turning this into the Weasel/Synaesthetic show
[/ QUOTE ]
but ... aren't these the EU CO* forums?
Good luck keeping the billing that way round btw.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
Regarding sets that are laugable.
For example, a comparison of something like an archery/devices blaster against a fire/kin controller. Which was the stronger build prior to ED? Which got hit the hardest by ED? I think you'd be hard pushed to say that the answer to both those questions wasn't the same, and by a fairly considerable margin.
No, the game isn't just about number crunching, how you play a character has a lot to do with it, but in a stat based game, which underneath everything CoH really is, it does have to come in to it. ED hit hardest people who slotted their powers with 5 or 6 of the same enhancements, certain character types were more likely to do this. Not all the character types that did this were comparatively strong to start with, not all were weaker ones were either I'm well aware, but it didn't matter, it was arbitrary. If you 5 or 6 slotted most of your powers with the same enhancment type then you got hit quite hard, regardless of how strong the build was to start with. OK that's an over-simplification of the situation, but there's also a good element of truth in it as well.
Powernova, I've seen a sonic/energy blaster play, teamed with one for about 35 levels on one of my characters, and it certainly looked pretty decent. He seemed to be quite impressed with it although I always got the impression he didn't think it was as good as his ice blaster. I'd be interested to hear how it plays with a weaker secondary if anyone has one.
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding sets that are laugable.
For example, a comparison of something like an archery/devices blaster against a fire/kin controller. Which was the stronger build prior to ED? Which got hit the hardest by ED? I think you'd be hard pushed to say that the answer to both those questions wasn't the same, and by a fairly considerable margin.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what happens when you fail to take all changes into account - you can't look at ED in isolation, you have to see it as a change in a panoply of changes. With the changes made to Controllers - AoE hold adjustments, the lack of multiple Pets - you cannot say they haven't been rebalanced more fairly. The introduction of Containment makes levelling controllers far easier than it ever used to be, but the changes made have resulted in them being far less "uber" than they were post-32. Archery/Dev, on the other hand, really lost nothing more than the ability to 6-slot for damage; from my experience with AR/Devices, the most effective way to slot for DPS (generally speaking) was 2 RecRec/4 Dam anyway with Perma Hasten - so the ED changes are hardly a crushing blow, from my PoV.
[ QUOTE ]
ED hit hardest people who slotted their powers with 5 or 6 of the same enhancements, certain character types were more likely to do this. Not all the character types that did this were comparatively strong to start with, not all were weaker ones were either I'm well aware, but it didn't matter, it was arbitrary. If you 5 or 6 slotted most of your powers with the same enhancment type then you got hit quite hard, regardless of how strong the build was to start with. OK that's an over-simplification of the situation, but there's also a good element of truth in it as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
There may indeed be elements of truth in it, but that doesn't result in laughable/unplayable toons, as is the general supposition. Recently, I've been flying through the levels on my poor, abused Claws/SR - on paper, ED should have seen him reduced to the level of "weak kitten", but I have to report that he really isn't. I do have more trouble playing him than pre-ED, of course - I get into the red more frequently, push my limits more often, and end up bein slightly more cautious in certain situations than before... but I can still charge headlong into AVs and GMs, and come out the other side breathing.
[ QUOTE ]
Powernova, I've seen a sonic/energy blaster play, teamed with one for about 35 levels on one of my characters, and it certainly looked pretty decent. He seemed to be quite impressed with it although I always got the impression he didn't think it was as good as his ice blaster. I'd be interested to hear how it plays with a weaker secondary if anyone has one.
[/ QUOTE ]
My gf has a Sonic/Devices Blaster - it plays really quite effectively, and certainly doesn't appear to lack any "oomph", so to speak.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
No point into turning this into the Weasel/Synaesthetic show but one point made me wonder.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, you can stop guesting for now.
[ QUOTE ]
ED removed some of the more strategic ways I can play and often resorts me to Kobi Yashi Naru.
That is bad, whatever happens.
[/ QUOTE ]
When old strategies fail to work, new strategies must be developed. Out of curiosity, what can't you do now that you could do prior to ED?
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
No its a good set, lots of aoe and stuff. The long animations and drawanimation kills it in PvP though, well it isnt that bad it just isnt the best.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
The odd thing is that with a slightly weaker powerset, rather than BLAST! and SMASH! you tend to get more tactical - telemining ftw again...
Incidentally, nearly dinging 32 - so votes please:
...is Full Auto worth getting?
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
[censored] hell yes, Best power in AR
[ QUOTE ]
...is Full Auto worth getting?
[/ QUOTE ]
*slap*
If you don't pick up Full Auto, you'll be getting more of those.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Must... resist... kink... jokes... wrong... forum... auuugghh...
Just asking since several people baaaah'd at it a bit - "Full Aggro" was one name it got called. But will trust the Syn.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
[ QUOTE ]
Must... resist... kink... jokes... wrong... forum... auuugghh...
[/ QUOTE ]
If you really need to get it out, Dreamy, my PMs are always open.
[ QUOTE ]
Just asking since several people baaaah'd at it a bit - "Full Aggro" was one name it got called. But will trust the Syn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time, you used to be able to open up with full Auto on a tightly packed mob and nothing would be left standing at the end of it... those days are gone now, and you're going to end up with a face-full of hurt if you try it. You can still use Full Auto effectively if you employ a little skill, much like any nuke. "You're married to this piece. This weapon of iron and wood. And you will be faithful. " Trust the Syn.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
You have to be more careful with full auto than you used to. Was a great power, ED and I6 reduced its effectiveness dramatically. Could wipe the floor with huge groups of mobs.
It's still useful for finishing off a group of mobs or weakening them significantly IF someone else has the aggro. If you start a fight with full auto now or use it too early in a fight you'll probably get very thoroughly beaten up...
[ QUOTE ]
Must... resist... kink... jokes... wrong... forum... auuugghh...
Just asking since several people baaaah'd at it a bit - "Full Aggro" was one name it got called. But will trust the Syn.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was the one that dubbed it "Full Aggro". However I will join syn in the slaping if you don't take it. Flamethower then FA is still a good damaging combo. It just doesn't make sure everything goes down any more. Anything that doesn't go down will dance on your face if no one is holding the aggro. I may knock AR alot but one thing it has over any other blaster primary is a level 32 power you can use in a standard attack chain.
[ QUOTE ]
I was the one that dubbed it "Full Aggro". However I will join syn in the slaping if you don't take it. Flamethower then FA is still a good damaging combo. It just doesn't make sure everything goes down any more. Anything that doesn't go down will dance on your face if no one is holding the aggro. I may knock AR alot but one thing it has over any other blaster primary is a level 32 power you can use in a standard attack chain.
[/ QUOTE ]
ahem - Rain of Arrows ....
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
[ QUOTE ]
I was the one that dubbed it "Full Aggro". However I will join syn in the slaping if you don't take it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Form an orderly queue for the slapping, boys, ok?
How should Full Auto be slotted in your highly esteemed opinions?
Trust the Syn. The Syn is your friend.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
If N=1.5xE
When N=150, E=100; 50 point difference.
When N=75, E=50; 25 point difference.
When 3B>N, then 15 seconds of stun is not fun.