My thoughts on character builds...H34L0R syndrome?
By
Ammon,
Posted on: 2005-11-19 08:25 in Corruptors
Who's Viscord? o.O
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I agree with Viscord. I have been playing a /FF MM but I find keeping a team bubbled a tedious activity. I expect this is one reason why /thermal /ice and /sonic Corruptors sometimes give them a miss.
The H34L0R syndrome is probably why these people select /Theraml in the first place though.
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I was about to ask the same as Jemma as it looks like you are replying to me 
I think i found what Viscord says but plz quote if its miles back your post would make sence then.
In answer to his point on darks where he says that there are a lot of darks out there who are IHO clueless as to their powers erm thats a resounding NO- I gotta defend my race - darks powers are uber - no doubt there and the corruptors and MM's should be taking what tehy can when they can - that doesnt measn they dont know what their powers do ok some may want a blaster only but its uunfair to say there are a lot, and it aint laziness to priorotise twighlight grap itself a debufff too,although the lazyness can be said for some not all FF MM's who only bubble their pets - which is lazy TBPH. A lot of MM and CO with dark are dark defenders from COH who know their stuff believe me. But complaining that you have to heal or bubble is just plain sily - thats the point of those toons It bugs me folk whinging about having to do what their made for, well that and hero defenders saying they cant heal as their offenders - get a grip the only ones who need to attack are darks and kinetics same here.
Back on corruptors though 
If you want to be a more team built healing type then the closest you'll get is thermal - it gets as close as villains dare to empaths and can actually do some damage 'offenders take note'
If you dont want to bubble, heal, debuff, buff or add shields then dont choose this AT - its like a stalker not wanting to hide or a tank who feart of everthing hitting him. It takes seconds to buff and bubble and helps the team emensly (MM's note thats T E A M not PETS)
I solo'd for ages on my ice which is why she has no shields but the others do and she will have before she goes into PvP (as i plnned that from the start)
IMHO i think its a cop out to complain about 'healer syndrome' its simple - dont make that AT or learn to deal with what you have i.e healing etc.
The H34L0R syndrome refers to those who want to do nothing but heal. Since Corruptors are not as good at just healing as Defenders if your corruptor only heals its not pulling its weight.
When i'm playing my MM I bubble my pets first, since they are pretty much always in range. I usually find I have to go chasing after other players in order to bubble them. Lastly I bubble the pets of other MMs, since it is sometimes hard to tell if they have been bubbled.
One issue is that the shields are useless if you mostly solo, so loners may avoid picking them. However if I was going to create a solo Corruptor I wouldn't pick Thermal as a secondary.
I really should do something about this signature.
Well while I do a lot of healing in groups, I also buff lots (I'm looking at you stalk and aria). But you will normally find me in the thick of the fight while I do it.
Another random thought about people going for healing instead of shiedling, (which may already have been mentioned in the six pages so far), is that I have already lost count of the number of times I've seen people ask to not have the fire shield cast on them, because of the limitations of their PCs.
It's comfortably into double figures now - "I don't want fire shield, it kills my frame rate" - now if I'd taken the power and slotted it and it was oooh so shiny and then I end up standing around not using it, then I'd be fairly miffed and may end up rerolling a new toon or respeccing away from the shield.
I don't know that this is the thought process for even a single player out there, but I can say that it wouldn't surprise me, due to people's requests to not have the shield.
I certainly noticed my rate drop when I was Fire Shielded. The new shields are a lot more graphics intensive than my Fire Tanks ones.
Of course if most of your team is already shielded chances are your rate is already suffering so adding you probably won't make a huge difference
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Of course if most of your team is already shielded chances are your rate is already suffering so adding you probably won't make a huge difference
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dunno, having had a mate's singularity park itself right on top of me in CoH and seen my framerate plummet compared to when they were just floating around it may have that effect. however, there would still be a good argument for them to just turn the settings down on their box rather than gimp themselves and their team.
I'm not replying to anyone in particular but to the thread as a whole.
My experience of doing the buff/debuff/heals thing comes from being a defender, who is Kinetic. He treats Siphon Power, Siphon Speed and the endurance drains as debuffs, Tranfusion and Transference are kind of like heals ( to health and end ) and Speed Boost and ID are definitely buffs.
I found that the single target buffs were great in the early levels, when I concentrated on Tranfusion, Siphon Power and Speed Boost, however when I got more powers it just got all too hectic. Healing ( whether health or end ) seems to be more fun to me than repetitive single target buffs. However the more offenderish debuffs were the thing that really made the character good.
From a general survivability point of view a combination of all of them is best, this is one of the great things ( in concept anyway ) about some of the new Corruptor powersets, the combinations of Heals, Single Target Buffs and Debuffs.
Unfortunately people don't often see the effect of debuffs and buffs but notice heals more.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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Unfortunately people don't often see the effect of debuffs and buffs but notice heals more.
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True, it's a bit of a digression but I think it's also to do with healing being reactive.
Most more experienced players will hopefully understand the relative value of debuffs, buffs and healing, most will appreciate playing with a good defender/corruptor/controller/mastermind who's using their set well, but when I'm playing a blaster and I suddenly get stunned and wacked to about 5% hit points and someone instantly hits me with AP to put me back to full before I've even had chance to think "break free" let alone start mashing the inspiration tray then I'll say thanks. It doesn't mean I don't notice the debuffs or appreciate them, it just means that, well, someone just saved my [censored].
A general reply to the topic, I have a Dark/Kinetics Corrupter who I adore oh-so much. She's level 27 and has yet to pick her 3rd Kinetics power, though for the time being it's okay as I'm managed to get a nice level of Fitness and Travel Powers.
She's pretty okay for now, her attacks are accurate, and she has (I forget the names) the healing power and attack siphon from Kinetics mainly because I'm used to playing a Defender and getting my <bleepy> kicked as a Blaster and knew I'd be needing it, the damage is a nice way of changing the odds ever so slightly when I'm playing with my nice Robotics/Forcefield MM friend (who's now almost always in my team).
I think that everyone should be allowed to build their characters in their own way, except for my one pet peeve which is when a Corrupter broadcasts "Level x Healer LFT". My instant reaction is 'You're NOT a healer! You have the ability to heal, please don't think that is the purpose of your existence!". But the only reason I think that way is because I hear that most healers have only the heals, and they are unable to protect from damage and rely on the ressurection powers so much. But that's all I hear, I have no experience in that department.
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However if I was going to create a solo Corruptor I wouldn't pick Thermal as a secondary.
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Hmm My fire/thermal rocks solo .. your all going on about taking heals and such for thermal but your all forgetting 1 major thing ... well actualy 2 major things ... heat exhaustion and melt armour !
-dmg -end -recovery -regen -def -res = PVE/PVP ownage
Speaking for my lvl 35 fire/thermal i've take most of the secondrys except plasma shield as its res V some lesser common damage types.I do heal but have the backup of fire if the brown stuff hits the fan.. the only down side to this is i manage to out damage pretty much all the other AT's due to fires high DPS so it is pretty much pick and choose but i do buff alot.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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Speaking for my lvl 35 fire/thermal i've take most of the secondrys except plasma shield as its res V some lesser common damage types.
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Thats answered one question. I was wondering if the plasma shield was more use at a higher level. My dark/thermal is only 16 so far and has 3 attacks, 2 heals, rez and 1 shield.
The guy that aggroed everything and then moaned about getting killed made me grin. It reminded me of the stone tanker that only used brimstone armour as the others didn't look very good. I juse laughed as he charged into a load of clockwork. (he had rock, crystal, stone skin and brinstone. No rooted or EE. He kept complaining that the stone armour set didn't have any mez protection)
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The guy that aggroed everything and then moaned about getting killed made me grin. It reminded me of the stone tanker that only used brimstone armour as the others didn't look very good. I juse laughed as he charged into a load of clockwork. (he had rock, crystal, stone skin and brinstone. No rooted or EE. He kept complaining that the stone armour set didn't have any mez protection)
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Hehe you should see how many invul brutes there are without unyielding and then they moan about no hold or KB protection
A lil quote.
Someguy: omg my toggles keep getting knocked off and i keep getting held.
Me: its because you don't have unyielding
Someguy: i respecd it out coz it sucked and is -def
nuff said 
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
Honestly, it seems to me that the b145t3r syndrome is at least as common as the H34L0R one among corruptors. IMO anyone who focuses solely on just one facet of their AT is going to be less powerful overall than a person who chooses a more balanced build. And although this might get me some hate here, I think this is especially true for corruptors whose primary and secondary powersets are actually roughly equal in effectivity (both somewhat penalized compared with blaster/defender primaries, but both less penalized than, say, dominator or defender secondaries).
It just makes me wonder a bit why someone would skip the buff/debuff powers and focus solely on damage in a game where every AT does some damage, most do at least as much and buffs and heals are in very short supply.
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Honestly, it seems to me that the b145t3r syndrome is at least as common as the H34L0R one among corruptors. IMO anyone who focuses solely on just one facet of their AT is going to be less powerful overall than a person who chooses a more balanced build. And although this might get me some hate here, I think this is especially true for corruptors whose primary and secondary powersets are actually roughly equal in effectivity (both somewhat penalized compared with blaster/defender primaries, but both less penalized than, say, dominator or defender secondaries).
It just makes me wonder a bit why someone would skip the buff/debuff powers and focus solely on damage in a game where every AT does some damage, most do at least as much and buffs and heals are in very short supply.
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As a counterfoil to that I've had Speed Boost two days and last night I've started getting the "Speed Boost pls" requests while I'm busy AOEing things in combat.
Actually I suppose I'm agreeing with you really. With corrupters its a balance of primary and secondary. But I've had players on my team who believe that its my job to follow them around and make sure they're Ok...
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As a counterfoil to that I've had Speed Boost two days and last night I've started getting the "Speed Boost pls" requests while I'm busy AOEing things in combat.
Actually I suppose I'm agreeing with you really. With corrupters its a balance of primary and secondary. But I've had players on my team who believe that its my job to follow them around and make sure they're Ok...
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I agree with you too, those people are annoying. No AT in CoX should be forced to be someone else's babysitter
I have two corruptors now one is a sonic/thermal (TL27) and the other is a Dark/Kinetic (TL10) - my higher lvl toon has all 5 of the powers from thermal available at this level as well as the first 3 attacks from sonic (taken mainly for the -DEF it gives rather than the damage) the rest of my powers are taken from pool (SSpeed for haste and the ability to get around mishes undetected & Fly to get around outside of mishes in high lvl areas, and for the defences from hover) as you can tell this corruptor is specced entirely for support meaning that while i can (just) solo on heroic im always better off in a team (normally the highest lvl i can find at the time without being LKed - thankfully because i rarely aggro and can get away quickly i don't die very often and can normally hold my own as a healer in a team of +3/+4 villains.
My other corruptor however has the area heal from kinetic as well as siphon strength and siphon speed, also i am focusing on the holds from Dark as well as the DoT attacks. The problem is that most people (in my experience) expect evey corruptor to take a heal - heavy secondary pool and i find my self being relied in a defender's role with a single heal when really my guy plays more like a controller - i've tried explaining to people that im not a healer but all i ever get is a tell when someone days saying "you're [CENSORED]" or something along those lines - even people who are my friends IRL actively blame me when they run off on their own or seperate on either side of the room and die because i have one heal thats an AoE around a mob (at least with thermal i can stand next to the one with the least problem and use Warmth, and use Cauterize on the other dude to keep him alive). Some people seem to be having problems discerning between what a corruptor is - either they think its a blaster or a defender not a choice between the two, and frankly as much as i love my dark/kin corruptor i'm thinking of dropping him just to stop the abuse
Dark / Kinetics is a real support build to be honest.
However I'd say that Support != Healer. I always let people know at the start of mishes that :
(a) You're going to get Speed Boosted unless you tell me not to
(b) Shout if you get mezzed or slept
(c) My heal is an AOE centered around MY target. So if you want healing you need to stand beside my target. Plus it misses occasionally.
Of course my target tends to be the one the rest of the meleers are on anyway so it rarely comes up but I don't tolerate "HEAL FFS". I'll either leave at the end of the mish or plonk you to the bottom of my priority list for healing and buffs in the future.
In big teams I focus on buffing people, containment with Tentacles, DP and Nightfall and healing, in that order.
Stick with Dark Kinetcs. Once you hit 20 you won't be able to move for Team offers and if you find some decent Brutes you'll be gods together. I've played with some great team-minded Brutes and its a blast.
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Plus it misses occasionally.
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Heh...was playing a couple of nights ago and some guy in my group was annoyed that I "wasn't healing" when we were fighting mobs 4 levels above me and TG kept missing. I told him this, and he replied something along the lines of "Well, who's fault is that?" So, I replied "Well, yours actually, if you would turn tactics on, I might be able to hit..." He shut up, turned it on, and suddenly he got healed 
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Dark / Kinetics is a real support build to be honest.
However I'd say that Support != Healer. I always let people know at the start of mishes that :
(a) You're going to get Speed Boosted unless you tell me not to
(b) Shout if you get mezzed or slept
(c) My heal is an AOE centered around MY target. So if you want healing you need to stand beside my target. Plus it misses occasionally.
Of course my target tends to be the one the rest of the meleers are on anyway so it rarely comes up but I don't tolerate "HEAL FFS". I'll either leave at the end of the mish or plonk you to the bottom of my priority list for healing and buffs in the future.
In big teams I focus on buffing people, containment with Tentacles, DP and Nightfall and healing, in that order.
Stick with Dark Kinetcs. Once you hit 20 you won't be able to move for Team offers and if you find some decent Brutes you'll be gods together. I've played with some great team-minded Brutes and its a blast.
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IMHO buff > healing, I'd rather have a support character making it so I dont need to be healed than healing me. The damage taken badges may be shiny but I'm happy to not have them all, honest.
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Back in CoH when I was always a heal-type controller or defender nobody really complained about dying because they wandered off on their own. It wasn't because they didn't wander off, it wasn't because I'm undescribably awesome... it's because I had tp friend and a sharp tongue
If some idiot wandered off and went into red hp I'd tp them back to me, heal them and give them a rollicking for being so silly. Sometimes it felt like a glimpse of what it must be like to be a mother ^^;
On the bright side people never complained and they'd learn quickly enough with the end result being fun for everyone :3
I played with an Ice/Ice corruptor the other day who was sufferning from B14ster syndrome - although he had both shields it didn't occur to him to cast them on anyone when fighting a Hero(AV) until I suggested it.
I really should do something about this signature.
Thats even worse than not taking them. If you've got shields you gotta use em
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I played with an Ice/Ice corruptor the other day who was sufferning from B14ster syndrome - although he had both shields it didn't occur to him to cast them on anyone when fighting a Hero(AV) until I suggested it.
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Well... in some crazy twisted way I can understand him.
When I created my corruptor, I was convinced by the class decription, that I would be a "damage dealer", and in no way a support class. How wrong I was.
But than again, if he'd thought like that, then why'd he pick up shields anyway? 
I agree with Viscord. I have been playing a /FF MM but I find keeping a team bubbled a tedious activity. I expect this is one reason why /thermal /ice and /sonic Corruptors sometimes give them a miss.
The H34L0R syndrome is probably why these people select /Theraml in the first place though.
I really should do something about this signature.