Quote:
Of course. But you still have to be exposed to something before you can learn it.
|
Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
fast learners being the exception of course
 |
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Quote:
Oh, the irony.|
Originally Posted by Hugginator
Most PL'rs and Farmers are too short sighted, they can't see the forest for the trees.
|
Quote:
| Maybe some of the points have value or are even correct in a vacuum, but against the bigger picture they don't carry much weight. |
Here are some things that have been stated that aren't opinion:
* Those opposed to draconian restrictions on MA are not all power-levelers and farmers.
* MA has not caused "massive inflation" in either market.
* MA has had little to no negative impact on the play experience of many players.
* Many players are playing the regular content.
Failure or refusal to recognize any of the above is the very definition of myopic. Alt has refused or failed to recognize at least two, probably three, and quite possibly all four.
If you think that's "bang on the point"... well, your version of "the point" must be roughly the size of Nebraska.
All I'm saying is: if you think there's a problem, find a solution that doesn't take MA away from everyone. I'm not abusing the system, and neither is anyone I interact with. I'm not exploiting the system, and neither is anyone I interact with. If you want to push for a solution that accommodates your playstyle and preferences, please come up with one that doesn't shaft ours in the process.
That would be taking the "big picture" into account.
Thanks.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
Quote:
This is something I could support. Good idea.|
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
I beleive that the new players should be required to run the AE tutorial b4 being able to do AE, and have the AE tutorial a little more in-depth.
|
Edit to add: I'd be for the same requirement and embellishment for the game tutorial as well.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
My overall opinion and observations of these threads have been:
§-There are two sides
§- Alt_o_Holic really shouldn't post opinions when he doesn't have the desire to communicate with other people.
§- Both sides are both correct and incorrect.
§- I fail to see anyway that "farmers" or "PL'ers" are impacting the game anymore then usual
§-I see alot of AE newbies farming alot. Which could be affecting the overall state of the game, but these newbies are neither farmers nor PLers as they are often running very poor farm missions and do not run them efficently. Making them PuG's at least, at most a very most a poor farm imitation.
*A step toward further group distinction would help these threads be anything but flame wars
Quote:
Actually, I'll go back a bit further and say that the groundwork was laid down with IOs in general.|
Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
And what seems to be overlooked here all too often is that MA didn't create that problem. Merits did.
MA added fuel to that particular fire, sure, but it didn't start it. And of the two contributors, it honestly looks like the lesser of the evils. I'm hoping I16 will deflate the prices of purple recipes a bit. |
In the first couple of years the game was out, there was no real "loot" other than Hami-Os. People farmed Hamidon. There was no reason to farm anything else. Other than Hamidon, the only thing you could focus your attention on in the game was the provided content. If you played a task force, it was because you felt like taking on a longer sequence of missions for nothing more than being able to say "I did it!".
Of interest is that one of the things that was extolled in the forums by players was the lack of "loot" in the game and that nobody felt they needed a certain rare item or weapon or charm or any of those other things people obsessed about in the other games. "You can just play the game and not have to worry about collecting your loot!"
Jump to IOs. What a marvelous addition. Finally there was a way of customizing your character in ways never possible before. You can now have blasters with some basic defense (I chose regeneration, but that's besides the point). You can get knockback protection, stealth, and any number of cool traits for your toons. But since they were only obtainable as random drops or through the consignment house, there was now something new to focus on besides the content.... maximizing their drop rate. It was at that point in the game that farming took off and playstyles changed (speed running task forces and trials so you'd get the reward faster). Merits only made the distribution of the reward more fair, it was the addition of the rewards themselves (IOs) that made the major shift.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
I posted this in a different thread, but I'll stick it here, for whatever it's worth.
There's a couple different factions more or less battling it out.... the players who enjoy AE or support it and feel that as long as they pay their money and aren't exploiting, they should be able to play as they see fit, and the players who feel that AE is ruining the game.
Both sides have valid arguments and both sides are equally right in voicing their displeasure.
To better understand the other side, let's use an example that's not part of this game. Let's say a new business opened up in your town letting gamers hook up with each other and play a variety of games. For a modest membership fee, you can enter a comfortable environment and play chess, backgammon, or Risk with other players. You enjoy chess and backgammon and are not too crazy about Risk, but no big deal. A few nights a week you head over and hook up with people and play chess and backgammon. A year or two passes, it's part of your normal routine and you look forward to it, and the club decides it will expand and puts out playing cards so people can play card games. No big deal, you're not big on playing cards, but live and let live. Shortly after this introduction of playing cards though, you see that a significant portion of the membership is now playing poker. You don't mind, but find that it takes you longer to find partners to play chess with. Whereas before there were normally 20 or 30 people looking to hook up for chess, now there's 8 or 9, and on some nights it takes you significantly longer to get a game of chess going.
Is it wrong for the patrons to play poker? No. But is it wrong for the chess lover to feel that his experience is now less than it was before? Once again, No. The club underwent change. The change was neither beneficial nor detrimental, it was simply change. Some people benefited, and have the right to exclaim how much they love the change, but likewise, some people were impacted and have just as much right to say how much they dislike the change.
That's basically what happened to CoH. We can go back and forth all we want whether it's good or bad. It's neither and it's both. To the person who enjoys the game as it was, it's bad. For the person who wanted more than what was offered before, it's good.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Quote:
This is a sound point. I approve of this, and it is basically what I've been trying to say, more or less.|
Originally Posted by Barata
I posted this in a different thread, but I'll stick it here, for whatever it's worth.
There's a couple different factions more or less battling it out.... the players who enjoy AE or support it and feel that as long as they pay their money and aren't exploiting, they should be able to play as they see fit, and the players who feel that AE is ruining the game. Both sides have valid arguments and both sides are equally right in voicing their displeasure. To better understand the other side, let's use an example that's not part of this game. Let's say a new business opened up in your town letting gamers hook up with each other and play a variety of games. For a modest membership fee, you can enter a comfortable environment and play chess, backgammon, or Risk with other players. You enjoy chess and backgammon and are not too crazy about Risk, but no big deal. A few nights a week you head over and hook up with people and play chess and backgammon. A year or two passes, it's part of your normal routine and you look forward to it, and the club decides it will expand and puts out playing cards so people can play card games. No big deal, you're not big on playing cards, but live and let live. Shortly after this introduction of playing cards though, you see that a significant portion of the membership is now playing poker. You don't mind, but find that it takes you longer to find partners to play chess with. Whereas before there were normally 20 or 30 people looking to hook up for chess, now there's 8 or 9, and on some nights it takes you significantly longer to get a game of chess going. Is it wrong for the patrons to play poker? No. But is it wrong for the chess lover to feel that his experience is now less than it was before? Once again, No. The club underwent change. The change was neither beneficial nor detrimental, it was simply change. Some people benefited, and have the right to exclaim how much they love the change, but likewise, some people were impacted and have just as much right to say how much they dislike the change. That's basically what happened to CoH. We can go back and forth all we want whether it's good or bad. It's neither and it's both. To the person who enjoys the game as it was, it's bad. For the person who wanted more than what was offered before, it's good. |
All we can do is adapt to changes. CoH is not -my- game. CoH is not -your- game. CoH is the game that belongs to all of its subscribers. And the only people who actually know what's best for the community as a whole, as those who spend most of their lives designing this virtual world. This debate is as pointless as it can get.
Can we please drop this topic, move on, and adapt?
Is it really hard to just drop this stupid argument and log back into CoH and enjoy the game we love, the way we want to?
Quote:
And that's why your so freggin' stupid. Whenever someone who makes sense puts you to shame, you put them on ignore.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I don't reply to Hydrophidian because I have him on ignore.
|
I stand by what I said in an earlier thread, your that crazy guy who comes in, babbles nonsense, and goes running off because you can't hear what anyone else on the forums are saying since they are all on ignore.
The new forums must have been a nightmare for you, purging your massive ignore list.
Quote:
It reminds me of the kid who says something, then puts his hands over his ears and starts singing "I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALALALA!"
|
Originally Posted by Folonius
And that's why your so freggin' stupid. Whenever someone who makes sense puts you to shame, you put them on ignore.
I stand by what I said in an earlier thread, your that crazy guy who comes in, babbles nonsense, and goes running off because you can't hear what anyone else on the forums are saying since they are all on ignore. The new forums must have been a nightmare for you, purging your massive ignore list. |
Here's the problem with your logic, alts, and everyone else opposed to farming.
Quote:
This is opinion.|
Originally Posted by Hugginator
The_Alt_oholic, is bang on the point.
Most PL'rs and Farmers are too short sighted, they can't see the forest for the trees. Its a self destructing pattern of short term thinking and greed. (yes there are exceptions and caveats, but the overarching concept is true) |
Quote:
| The truth, as Alt and others have tried to explain, is that the trivialization of the game is dangerous long term. |
Quote:
| Maybe the devs want to push the subscribers to more of a churn rate subscription type where people play for a month or 2 and move on, away from the previous type where people generally subscribed longer term, if so they should let us know asap. |
Quote:
| But I doubt it, its more likely they are busy elsewhere and maybe they are even clueless about the damage this thing is causing. |
Quote:
| It could even be they are trying to figure out how to close pandoras box, but I doubt that as well. |
Quote:
| Whatever it is, pretending that you and others are somehow 'explaining' away the points that Alt and others have made isn't working. |
Quote:
| All 'you' have done is present another opinion, and in my opinion they have been generally myopic. |
Bring something that is factual to the table instead of opinion. Until then, I doubt you will ever change anyones mind. The funny thing is, no matter how many facts the farmers bring to the table, it doesn't change the anti-farmers mind, but it does change the minds of people who don't care either way. This is why the hardcore anti-farmers are hated on these boards.
Quote:
You actually think the developers are not aware of what is happening in their own game.|
Originally Posted by Hugginator
But I doubt it, its more likely they are busy elsewhere and maybe they are even clueless about the damage this thing is causing. It could even be they are trying to figure out how to close pandoras box, but I doubt that as well.
|
Wow.
Quote:
Fine analogy, and if that were as far as it went, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it often goes further than that.|
Originally Posted by Barata
To better understand the other side, let's use an example that's not part of this game. Let's say a new business opened up in your town letting gamers hook up with each other and play a variety of games. For a modest membership fee, you can enter a comfortable environment and play chess, backgammon, or Risk with other players. You enjoy chess and backgammon and are not too crazy about Risk, but no big deal. A few nights a week you head over and hook up with people and play chess and backgammon. A year or two passes, it's part of your normal routine and you look forward to it, and the club decides it will expand and puts out playing cards so people can play card games. No big deal, you're not big on playing cards, but live and let live. Shortly after this introduction of playing cards though, you see that a significant portion of the membership is now playing poker. You don't mind, but find that it takes you longer to find partners to play chess with. Whereas before there were normally 20 or 30 people looking to hook up for chess, now there's 8 or 9, and on some nights it takes you significantly longer to get a game of chess going.
Is it wrong for the patrons to play poker? No. But is it wrong for the chess lover to feel that his experience is now less than it was before? Once again, No. The club underwent change. The change was neither beneficial nor detrimental, it was simply change. Some people benefited, and have the right to exclaim how much they love the change, but likewise, some people were impacted and have just as much right to say how much they dislike the change. |
When the chess player starts declaring that the cards should be thrown out, that they're bad for the club, that the card players are fleecing everyone... that's when my response reflex begins to twitch.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Can we please drop this topic, move on, and adapt?
|
I'll tell you why I've started responding to it again, though...
The other day, someone sent me a /tell, asking for help with the market. Why they chose me, I dunno, but they did. When I agreed to help, they proceeded to rant at me about how MA had ruined everything. It soon became apparent that they were pretty new to the game, so, in their rant, they had to have been just parroting what someone else had said to them.
This kinda bothered me.
I helped them out, explained what some of the real issues were (impending 2XXP being the big one), showed them a few things, and remained on hand as they made their first pure-market profit of several 100k in just a few minutes. That made them happy, and suddenly the game wasn't "ruined" anymore.
Then there was the player who, on the help channel, asked where the "AE action" was, only to be met with vitriolic refusal to help them 'ruin the game'.
From what I've seen, both on these forums and in the game, the anti-MA sentiment, aside from oft spreading misinformation, is frequently surly and vicious. I'd rather not see that drown out opposing viewpoints, lest the false impression be given that that's the dominant perspective.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
Quote:
Fair enough. Like I said in my post, it was only to illustrate the validity of feelings on both sides. Nothing more. I wasn't addressing actions on either side of the debate.|
Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
Fine analogy, and if that were as far as it went, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it often goes further than that.
When the chess player starts declaring that the cards should be thrown out, that they're bad for the club, that the card players are fleecing everyone... that's when my response reflex begins to twitch. |
Personally, I like AE but feel it gives out too many rewards. When such a large number of people flock to one single mechanism because the experience and drops (cashed in with the tickets) are perceived to be so much better than the rest of the game, then it's out of balance. I'd also remove it from the lower zones because from a purely game-design point of view, I'd want my new users to first see the "real" game world before engaging in player-created content. Existing users would already be aware of the building in the higher zones , and new players would have the best chance of experiencing the game as you designed. Many RPG games start our linearly and then open up. They do that so you can familiarize the player with the game and the environment before hitting him with too much.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Quote:
That's because, from what I've seen, most of the members of the anti-AE group have a very "elitist" reaction to things. I'm not generalizing. I've seen lots of anti-AE members who bring very sound, logical solutions and arguments to the table.|
Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
From what I've seen, both on these forums and in the game, the anti-MA sentiment, aside from oft spreading misinformation, is frequently surly and vicious. I'd rather not see that drown out opposing viewpoints, lest the false impression be given that that's the dominant perspective.
|
But I've also seen lots of people whose arguments basically go like:
1. I'm a veteran of this game.
2. In the old days, we didn't level like this.
3. New players aren't experiencing the same game we experienced.
4. Thus, AE is ruining the game.
I think these people are taking their veteran badge status way too seriously.
Quote:
The problem with this is, it's more complicated than that. The rewards in AE are notably less if you're playing it solo or in smaller teams.|
Originally Posted by Barata
Personally, I like AE but feel it gives out too many rewards. When such a large number of people flock to one single mechanism because the experience and drops (cashed in with the tickets) are perceived to be so much better than the rest of the game, then it's out of balance.
|
Which is actually why I think many people have returned to regular content. I think those are the people who play like I do. During the 2XXP weekend, for example, I didn't step foot into an AE building until the very end... and then only so we could have wildly disparate levels on the same team.
So, while I agree with your point on balance, the solution can't be a simple as just removing rewards from AE, because the rewards are already subpar in many instances. There has to be some sort of scale to it.
Despite the many players that loathe it, the developers seem to like the general concept of Diminishing Returns. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see that coming down the pike in the near future.
Quote:
| I'd also remove it from the lower zones because from a purely game-design point of view, I'd want my new users to first see the "real" game world before engaging in player-created content. |
Quote:
| Many RPG games start our linearly and then open up. They do that so you can familiarize the player with the game and the environment before hitting him with too much. |
But, I've had a handful of occasions now where I've been glad it didn't.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
Quote:
And that's why I keep posting about the subject whenever I can find the time.|
Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
From what I've seen, both on these forums and in the game, the anti-MA sentiment, aside from oft spreading misinformation, is frequently surly and vicious. I'd rather not see that drown out opposing viewpoints, lest the false impression be given that that's the dominant perspective.
|
For the record, we actively recruit people to play this game and when they join up into our global channel, we take care of them. For the people I play with, MA has been nothing but a positive experience since it's brought back old players and new ones alike. More players = good.
They can farm all they want or whatever, but they have a support structure from day one telling them what powers are good, bad, etc. They have a whole private forum full of user guides, builds, build advice, assistance in putting TF/SF's together, etc, etc. We talk them into trying the game and we take care of them when they stick around.
How many of these folks who are out to nuke the MA from orbit can claim this?
How about instead of talking about how much you hate these newbies you create a support structure for them?
Then again, I haven't played in a PuG in (literally) years. I only play with people I know (well, not exactly know but are at least in my channel). Why? Because I have found players just as bad as the ones being described every time I've joined one since I first started playing this game. Bad players are everywhere and always have been. In fact, I'd assume that if you only play on PuG's, you're probably even the kind of player that got me to drop them in the first place. I apologize if my sympathy is a tad limited.
Quote:
I've played things I liked...|
Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
Has anyone actually played quality content on AE?!
|
I'm banned now, aren't I?
As I said, if you want new players to experience regular content (RC), then offer to take them out of the AE building and show them. This is your chance, as a veteran player, to show off your favorite things about the game. Take advantage of it.
All the hostility of the anti-AE players seems to be extremely counterproductive. For example, they complain that no one is teaming with them, yet they viciously attack anyone who even appears to be an "AE baby", which causes the AE-only player to view RC players as hostile, which glues them to the AE building even more.
Therefore, if the anti-AE players want to get people out of AE, they should be nice to the new players, and offer to show them the full scope of the game. If the new players are already in AE, then do a few missions with them (even if it means going into AE yourself) and talk constantly about your favorite RC arcs/missions/TFs/contacts without putting AE down in any fashion. When the new players get curious, show them what you were talking about. BE NICE and answer their questions politely, even if your first reaction is "OMG you should know this already" (the beauty of the internet; you can think faster than you can type, and you can also backspace).
None of this is guaranteed to work, however. The best response for an anti-AE player would be if the new player will completely agree with you and never go back to AE again. If you are polite and courteous, then the worst possible response would be for them to go back to AE and never leave it. However, when questioned by their friends as to where they were, they should be able to truthfully reply that, "This really nice vet showed me some other stuff. I didn't like it, but at least I made another friend."
Please remember that, ultimately, the "AE decision" is up to the individual player. Even if you're extremely against AE, you must respect other players' decisions since, after all, what's fun for you isn't necessarily fun for everyone. Attempts at coercing new players in a threatening or hostile manner will lead them to ultimately quit the game, which means that the devs are out one subscription and can't do as much for the rest of us.
All in all, a little respect and understanding (which does not imply agreement) could go a loooong way.
Quote:
And yet all the endless nerfs and adjustments to the game are primarily caused by Farmers and PL'ing (and PVP, but not PVP because 'they' specifically said they wouldn't nerf because of PVP except for the parts where they did).|
Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
* Those opposed to draconian restrictions on MA are not all power-levelers and farmers.
|
Quote:
| * MA has not caused "massive inflation" in either market. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=140479
Fulmens thinks that inflation is so bad he wants to destroy a huge amount of Inf as fast as possible:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...hlight=fulmens
Quote:
| * MA has had little to no negative impact on the play experience of many players. |
Quote:
| * Many players are playing the regular content. |
Quote:
| Failure or refusal to recognize any of the above is the very definition of myopic. Alt has refused or failed to recognize at least two, probably three, and quite possibly all four. |
I don't know why anyone is arguing with him, his points are simple, they are valid, they make sense.
Quote:
| All I'm saying is: if you think there's a problem, find a solution that doesn't take MA away from everyone. I'm not abusing the system, and neither is anyone I interact with. I'm not exploiting the system, and neither is anyone I interact with. If you want to push for a solution that accommodates your playstyle and preferences, please come up with one that doesn't shaft ours in the process. |
Originally I was of the opinion that everyone needed to police themselves (still am, but!), but in that case its incumbent upon the devs to provide a reasonable 'backstop' to the whole process, and they have failed miserably for the above reasons.
I think the MA could be an amazing addition to the game, I have found a few fantastically fun missions amongst the hundreds of thousands of currently published farms.
Do I have a fix? No, but then I didn't open the box did I.
That being said, I have made 1 suggestion ever about 'fixing' MA its in this thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=139198
I said:
'Or maybe an inverse logarithmic sliding scale, lvl 1's get 0 XP and go up to something close to full XP as you approach lvl 50.
Tied to real level of course not any SK/LK. '
Quote:
| That would be taking the "big picture" into account. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bright_Shadow
You actually think the developers are not aware of what is happening in their own game.
Wow. |
Their pattern and timing of responses doesn't support that idea no, not in the least, it has repeatedly taken them weeks to fix HUGE exploits and to finally post public expectations, and to punish exploiters.
No the devs attention to the released AE has been absolutely unarguably dismal.
Quote:
Short sighted, take for example the housing bubble (wow it was great), a huge boom of everyone simplisticly thinking that housing prices 'never' go down, add a bunch of opportunistic lenders, and then add a bunch of opportunistic investors, and you get a 70 trillion dollar bubble that still has to reset.|
Originally Posted by Folonius
This is opinion, but I would also call it false. Proof of the success of AE can be found in Atlas and all the new subs running around. Your just crying doom. AE is a blazing success due to the number of people constantly in the AE building, maybe to much of a success, but a success nonetheless. This little tidbit is factual, and I dare you to prove it wrong.
|
Blah blah, the point being, that the short term thinking, that some new players in AE getting to lvl 50 in days 'probably' won't stick around, they have no long term interest, meaning they havn't spent any real time in game to achieve anything so why bother, they already 'won the game'.
A short term bubble of new players means nothing, the long term outlook is for players that stick around.
Quote:
| Why get rid of something that is a benefit to the game? |
Quote:
|
the points? you mean your opinions? Why do we need to explain away someones opinion? BINGO! It's opinion vs. opinion. The only fact that I can present is the amount of Atlas broadcast and new subs I've seen. Everyone can see the increase in Atlas broadcast, and everyone can see the increase in "annoying noobs" as the anti farmers call them. Personally, I call them Co*'s future. Bring something that is factual to the table instead of opinion. Until then, I doubt you will ever change anyones mind. The funny thing is, no matter how many facts the farmers bring to the table, it doesn't change the anti-farmers mind, but it does change the minds of people who don't care either way. This is why the hardcore anti-farmers are hated on these boards. |
Quote:
The thread was about whether or not the markets are settling, not about whether or not MA caused massive inflation. Again, MA has demonstrably not caused "massive inflation" on the market.|
Originally Posted by Hugginator
The market denizens were split on that concept based on your own thread
|
I repeat: MA has not caused "massive inflation" on the market.
In fact, it's deflationary effects are still evident in many places.
See that level 50 Adjusted Targeting: Recharge recipe that you can get for a few 100k?
You couldn't touch those for under 3.5 million before MA.
That's one of many, many recipe/IO examples I can cite.
Then there's the rare salvage, most of which has become very stable in price and, compared to pre-MA, rather cheap. Even under the strains of a 2XXP weekend.
Not to mention a significantly increased availability of many things redside.
So again: MA has not caused "massive inflation" on the market. It contributed to inflation on certain items, inflated some, and brought the price down on others, dried up supply over here, and flooded it over there. It's impact on the market was, and continues to be, mixed... and has been showing signs of diminishing since its release.
It's not a matter of opinion, not a "concept" that can be "split' on. It's simply a reality.
But please, continue to deny it. It illustrates my point rather succinctly.
Quote:
| Fulmens thinks that inflation is so bad he wants to destroy a huge amount of Inf as fast as possible |
Quote:
| So conversely it has major impact on some players. |
Also, by definition, the number of players on which the impact has been negative must be a minority. Because if they were a majority, well, there wouldn't be a problem at all, right?
Quote:
| So conversely again many players aren't. |
Yes, many people are using MA a lot. Declaring that to me as if I've denied it is a straw man. I've not denied it. The market supply reflects that they're using MA. Just as it reflects that many people are doing regular content. Again, this is simply a reality, not a matter of opinion.
Quote:
| Whatever the split is, its significant. |
I could very well be wrong on that, though. I depend on the developers to monitor things like that.
Quote:
| Alt clearly is very passionate about the game and wants to see everyone enjoying it for as long as possible. |
Quote:
| I don't know why anyone is arguing with him, his points are simple, they are valid, they make sense. |
Quote:
| I think the MA could be an amazing addition to the game |
Quote:
| The big picture is the long term longevity of the game, and as I said, trivialization of the whole thing is significantly detrimental to the same. |
That seems like trivialization to me.
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DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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Your assuming that more players will leave because they consider beating the game getting to 50, and they don't bother with end game content. I don't know anybody that plays like that.|
Originally Posted by Hugginator
Short sighted, take for example the housing bubble (wow it was great), a huge boom of everyone simplisticly thinking that housing prices 'never' go down, add a bunch of opportunistic lenders, and then add a bunch of opportunistic investors, and you get a 70 trillion dollar bubble that still has to reset.
Blah blah, the point being, that the short term thinking, that some new players in AE getting to lvl 50 in days 'probably' won't stick around, they have no long term interest, meaning they havn't spent any real time in game to achieve anything so why bother, they already 'won the game'. |
New players getting to 50 in under 10-20 hours of game play isn't impossible, but have you been on some of these newbie teams in AE? They think they can take on the hardest groups, and team wipe and everyone quits. I very rarly play any toons in AE that are under level 22 unless it's with some higher level friends.
As for new players getting to 50 in days, that can be accomplished in regular game play. I made a level 50 in 2 weeks of game play, and it was my second toon in Co*. Excluding the Comm Officers and Bubbles, getting to level 50 in AE is still difficult. If you play missions similar to those in regular content, the pace is slower. If you play the hardest missions in AE to gain the greatest rewards, the team wipes. There will always be outliers to this, but you have those same outliers in regular content.
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| A short term bubble of new players means nothing, the long term outlook is for players that stick around. |
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| When the nerfs come then you will know who was right. |
The dev's are the one who maintain this balance, and if they mess the balance up, they are the only ones that can be blamed, not the people paying their bills.
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Huh? Alt is out of his mind. He only cares about his play style and listens to nobody else. |
Originally Posted by Hugginator
Alt clearly is very passionate about the game and wants to see everyone enjoying it for as long as possible.
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This link is a great example of what Alt preaches.
Alot of what ppl claim the AE noobs don't know is covered in the tutorial, most new players play the tutorial. Does this infact point to AE being the problem? or the tutorial needing a slight update?
I beleive that the new players should be required to run the AE tutorial b4 being able to do AE, and have the AE tutorial a little more in-depth.
Not knowing how to play your character is an objectional complaint, some will say you're playing your character right if you know how to attack.