Can we get a revamp of the teaming system please.
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2009-07-16 09:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Nice idea, and this has been requested many times over the ages.
I truly believe that most people are just afraid of having the star. You can always find a team if you're willing to just form your own.
I do a few tweaks in the search function would be nice, though.
Actions speak louder than Vets.
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You can always find a team if you're willing to just form your own.
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I truly believe that most people are just afraid of having the star. You can always find a team if you're willing to just form your own.
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Yeah the star does freak some people out. But the game really does go about joining a team backwards. For example there is no way for me to look for a team forming for a TF. Unless I run to the zones and ask in broadcast. Sure I can ask in the user chat channels but not everyone has access to those.
And there is no way for me to tell people I want to form a TF team without doing the exact same thing. Endlessly spamming messages saying "Forming ITF. Want to join". Plus once I'm in a team people searching can't see me if they use the search correctly. The only way they can find me is if they see my messages.
It is one of the things that makes so many people cluster to AE in Cap and Atlas. You can find a team fast. Really really fast if your over lvl 30. No waiting. No searching thru lists of characters and sending tell after tell. Just post one or two messages in local and bam your in a mission.
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You can always find a team if you're willing to just form your own.
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Apparently reading comprehension is low today. I've never said I can't find a people to team with. My issue is this game makes it a PITFA to put a team together and it shouldn't be that way.
There should be a "Find Team" and a "Form Team" button next to the "Find Member" button in the team tab.
Form Team - Lets you form a team even if there is only one of you. You can make the team Private, Invite only, or Open and put in a description of what you plan to do.
Find Team - Lets you search all the teams. The list shows you the team leader, how many are in the team, and the tag. Maybe the mission they are currently running too. If it is an open team you just hit join and bam your on the team. If it is invite only you hit "Request Invite" and it pops up a window so you can send a short message to the team lead and he decides if he wants to invite you. Private teams and teams that have started a TF don't show up.
Find Member - Works like it does now.
I'm just wondering how that would even be workable. You seem to want to define a Team by the leader and how many people are in it. But both of those things can change. A team is a fluid object that can change completely over a period of time. You could start a team with members A B and C, over time gain members D E and F, then lose members A B and C. Is the current state of the team the same as the original state of the team when A first formed it? How do you organize these objects for searching? How do you organize them at all?
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me at all.
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I'm just wondering how that would even be workable. You seem to want to define a Team by the leader and how many people are in it. But both of those things can change. A team is a fluid object that can change completely over a period of time. You could start a team with members A B and C, over time gain members D E and F, then lose members A B and C. Is the current state of the team the same as the original state of the team when A first formed it? How do you organize these objects for searching? How do you organize them at all?
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me at all.
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I think it would be possible to make the team search window dynamic enough to handle such things. Would be up to the devs to decide how to implement it.
EDIT: The danger that the OP overlooks with the private team option however, is if what if most team leaders start marking their team as private?
THAT part of the suggestion could make finding teams even harder.
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Is the current state of the team the same as the original state of the team when A first formed it? How do you organize these objects for searching? How do you organize them at all?
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me at all.
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What would be displayed is the state of the team at the moment a player does a search. The team message would only change if the team leader changed it. And yes the team leader could change over time. It isn't that big of a deal. Several other games use the "Find a team" vs the "I need a team" approach and it works great.
I would organize it in a database table. I would be surprised if CoX isn't using a multitude of tables to organize everything. I can hack together a wild [censored] table if you like but I'm sure there are better DB experts here that could decide what to key off of and what columns you should have.
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I'm just wondering how that would even be workable. You seem to want to define a Team by the leader and how many people are in it. But both of those things can change. A team is a fluid object that can change completely over a period of time. You could start a team with members A B and C, over time gain members D E and F, then lose members A B and C. Is the current state of the team the same as the original state of the team when A first formed it? How do you organize these objects for searching? How do you organize them at all?
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me at all.
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I think it would be possible to make the team search window dynamic enough to handle such things. Would be up to the devs to decide how to implement it.
EDIT: The danger that the OP overlooks with the private team option however, is if what if most team leaders start marking their team as private?
THAT part of the suggestion could make finding teams even harder.
[/ QUOTE ]That's probably exactly what would happen, too.
Honestly, with how little used the team search feature is (people barely ever set their flags or search notes nowadays and the only real flag you can trust is the big red one), they definitely do NOT need to touch it.
Team search features in every single MMORPG I have ever played all vary from very in-depth and useful and easy to use to plain old arcane and they all have one thing in common: hardly anyone ever uses them.
In the end, even in a game that made teaming the easiest I'd ever seen it (by default, your team is listed as "Open" and anyone can join it unless it is full and even then you just create a raid/warband to make it bigger), Warhammer Online, the playerbase is still afraid to create a team themselves. And being the leader of a team in that game, in most circumstances, is generally meaningless.
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@Razoras
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EDIT: The danger that the OP overlooks with the private team option however, is if what if most team leaders start marking their team as private?
THAT part of the suggestion could make finding teams even harder.
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If everyone made their team private then you'd be in the exact same situation as today. Team leads would be using the search feature to fill the team with exactly the people they wanted.
The same applies to Invite Only as well. The team lead could just reject everyone that applies.
Really the only difference between Private and In
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Honestly, with how little used the team search feature is (people barely ever set their flags or search notes nowadays and the only real flag you can trust is the big red one), they definitely do NOT need to touch it.
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The fact that no one uses the current system at all is why I think it should be changed.
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In the end, even in a game that made teaming the easiest I'd ever seen it (by default, your team is listed as "Open" and anyone can join it unless it is full and even then you just create a raid/warband to make it bigger), Warhammer Online, the playerbase is still afraid to create a team themselves. And being the leader of a team in that game, in most circumstances, is generally meaningless.
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I used the heck out of the WAR teaming. It could have used some UI changes but it was great.
Agreed with the OP. The whole LFT tool could use a complete overhaul.
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I used the heck out of the WAR teaming. It could have used some UI changes but it was great.
[/ QUOTE ]So did I, so did I.
It's barely used now, though (but I'm willing to grant you that that might be because of a dearth of players). Just like the current team search got used pretty well for a few months after it was renovated and then settled into the state it is today. You might be unaware, but the search feature you use is a revamp and much improved system compared to what was released.
Team Search features are wasted effort and pointless this late into the lifespan of a MMORPG. We're not gonna use it much more even if it was the greatest feature ever made in any MMORPG.
Even in the most successful MMORPG ever in the history of the world, they tried to fix their teaming feature set and it did very little to improve the experience of trying to form a team. People just avoided using it and relied on the tried and true old searching and sending PMs or spamming general.
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@Razoras
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I truly believe that most people are just afraid of having the star. You can always find a team if you're willing to just form your own.
I do a few tweaks in the search function would be nice, though.
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<QR>
Not true. Many times that I play there is nobody (literally, nobody) in my level range that I can team with. I have no problem creating a team, I actually like getting teams together, its just not easy to do.
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You might be surprised how many players are willing to SK/LK up. Or how many 50s don't mind being brought down a few dozen levels.
I can't tell you how many times I've faced Frostfire at level 50.
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@Razoras
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Team Search features are wasted effort and pointless this late into the lifespan of a MMORPG. We're not gonna use it much more even if it was the greatest feature ever made in any MMORPG.
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If you get the chance check out the teaming system in Puzzle Pirates. Close to what WAR had but even easier to use. It makes every other MMORPG teaming system seem lame.
Razoras referred me here, so I'll post some of the suggestions that have come up for improving team search, in no particular order.
1. Remove the origin indicator.
2. Expand the list of players so that it doesn't get truncated.
3. Refine the range of levels used for searching (slider, maybe?)
4. Add an indicator to show the team leader.
5. Automatically remove players in TF mode from searches.
6. Add a function to allow teams to indicate they're looking for members.
The team scaling option was also long-desired, and I-16 should make it a reality. Hopefully, some other improvements will be in the works.
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Why are we wanting to make an easy process more complicated? There are global channels for anything and everything that work way better and faster than any menu feature the devs could come up with. All you have to do is ask.
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QR:
1. You have to join global channels (not that it's hard), but they can and do fill up or become closed. Search menus function without having to join a channel and include everyone, unless they opt out.
2. If you're a new player or new to a server, using the menu to find team members can be useful.
3. There's no drama, cussing or spam on menus.
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Why are we wanting to make an easy process more complicated? There are global channels for anything and everything that work way better and faster than any menu feature the devs could come up with. All you have to do is ask.
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<sarcasm>Because we know that everyone and their brother is on the same global channel and that global channels allow an infinite number of people.</sacarsm>
Something as simple as a Team leader having a "Looking for More" flag that they can set would go a long way. When searching for players, filtering out all the ones who are already on teams would help a lot as well so you don't have them burying all the people who are not teamed.
I think we are allowing our experience with the game to refer to things like channels as easy. They are not inherently easy and can be difficult for some players to find and use.
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If we had a team search option that showed all the PUGs that currently need members it would be incredible easy to get a team rolling.
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I'm all for new options, but I do have to say, we need to make sure teams really "need" members. I would hate it if my happy team of 4 or 2 or 6 could be found and solicited out of the blue, unless I have the ability to turn off your ability to find our team. That is because, personally, I am not one of those people who simply has to get on the most bloated size of team possible. I cannot count how many times I've got on a great little team of 3 or 4 and one of them insists over and over that we get more people until we hit the max of 8.
As long as I can hide from you, in case I dont "need" you, and specifically, in case I'm not open to trivial unsolicited perusal of team size, then I'm cool.
It is already irritating enough that can someone can just click on you and see your team size.
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Personally I'm 120% behind the idea of some constructive tweaks to the Create-a-Team process, specifically to the Find window.
I would especially like to be able to refine the by-Level search, as the current 10-level spread seems a bit excessive. Especially if you're say, level 45. Searching 41-50 turns up a gazillion 50s (post-i14, of course) and two level 45s.
Having said that, lemme just say that I put together, and maintain, 8-hero teams running regular mishes practically every night on Freedom.
Yes, it takes a bit of effort, but Leading a team has many advantages, and a few little tricks of the trade can speed and facilitate the process.
Most importantly, 2 Binds:
"t $target, Level $level (AT here) LFT - want to join forces?"
and
"t $target, Level $level-ish team LFM - join us?"
Open the Find window, refine your search for Level, & LF-flag to begin with.
If you need to refine it further, start with Zone (Atlas is a good place to search for every level now, and you'd be surprised at how many are actually grateful to be dragged out of AE into the "real world").
And I've just started toying with refining by AT, as well. You'll rarely find potential members this way, that you wouldn't have found in a broader search, but it's worth a shot if you're short on Healz or Holdz or Meat Shieldz.
Again, the Find window could benefit from some tweaking, but once you get the hang of it, the traditional way is relatively pain-free.
As somebody who always makes their own teams and uses teamseek extensively, I have two simple requests.
1. Let me filter out people who are ALREADY on a team.
2. Expand the list so it doesn't truncate as much. Though the above will dramatically help with truncating as well.
That is really all I need.
One thing I've seen over and over is "I can never find a team." My usual response is "Join a good SG", "Get in a teaming channel", etc. Honestly you can always find a team but it can be a PITA. Why should I have to spam zone broadcast with LFM messages, send out a bunch of tells, and ask in the teaming channels just to get a PUG going?
If we had a team search option that showed all the PUGs that currently need members it would be incredible easy to get a team rolling. If you wanted to team all you'd have to do is search for open teams, see if they were doing something you'd like, and join up.