[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This would be my my favorite TF if I didn't always end up on teams that fail it.
I understand that it doesn't seem to be a big deal to most people these days, but some how what ever PuG I end up on, We almost always fail. I have actually had teams that win far less than 50% of the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, I've been on PUGs that had 50% level 50s, the rest lackied level 35s, with no regard for mix of ATs, and I have yet to fail it or even complete team wipe. I can only shudder at what the PUGs you must have been on were like!
[/ QUOTE ]
The funny thing is, they weren't even that bad. The few times I have done an ITF successfully, it was what you just described. It was a Pick up group with side-kicked people and no regard to what ATs are involved, we got through and we won.
The other times it was the same as well. Random PuG and the weird thing is. Everyone is competent, we have no trouble through the entire ITF, we get to Rommy and all of a sudden we can't do damage, we can't get him separated, we just can't get him taken down.
It seems I just have bad lucky because no one I talk to, besides me at this point, runs into this problem.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
[ QUOTE ]
Co-op is not overdone, and there are only two Co-op zones/TFs in this game.
If anything I WANT SUM MO, I WANT SUM MO! 
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually kinda tired of heroes and villains being all chummy. I'd like to see things where we have PVE vs PVE, much like the battle zones in Siren's Call, but not necessarily PVP. Task forces that counter each other (via Oroborous for example) as villains do X and Heroes try to undo it, giving nice rewards to wresting control from one side or the other.
I want to see COMPETITIVE zones. It can't be that hard to do without resorting to lolpvp.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
You want players to compete against each other, so that it's one player versus another player, ergo player versus player, but you want it to somehow not be PvP?
You must be a CEO!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Co-op is not overdone, and there are only two Co-op zones/TFs in this game.
If anything I WANT SUM MO, I WANT SUM MO!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually kinda tired of heroes and villains being all chummy. I'd like to see things where we have PVE vs PVE, much like the battle zones in Siren's Call, but not necessarily PVP. Task forces that counter each other (via Oroborous for example) as villains do X and Heroes try to undo it, giving nice rewards to wresting control from one side or the other.
I want to see COMPETITIVE zones. It can't be that hard to do without resorting to lolpvp.
[/ QUOTE ]
This FTW!
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
Oh I take it back. You're not CEOs, you're consumers! They're always wanting you to do something and somehow not do that same thing, at the same time.
I'm suddenly reminded of those commercials which I only vaguely remember, where this woman wanted a sandwich with bread that was toasted, but not toasted, or something.
[ QUOTE ]
You want players to compete against each other, so that it's one player versus another player, ergo player versus player, but you want it to somehow not be PvP?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I want competition, not a fight. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Oh I take it back. You're not CEOs, you're consumers! They're always wanting you to do something and somehow not do that same thing, at the same time.
I'm suddenly reminded of those commercials which I only vaguely remember, where this woman wanted a sandwich with bread that was toasted, but not toasted, or something.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your lack of imagination is not a failing on my part.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
Me, I like the ITF. I haven't spammed it but it's a reasonable TF that runs quickly even with a full team (unlike Posi), has variable missions (Effin Citadel), and has a lot of versatility on how you can run it successfully (anything that has a temp power required to beat). And I like co-op 'cause when you roll redside as much as I do, finding enough people willing to commit to a TF can be sorta difficult.
I think I've got a 50% success rate on the ITF at this point, usually only marred by player drop-outs, or that "oops our 50 lost their exemp/mal" that shoots up the diff to impossible. I've seen it beaten a different way each time - sometimes drawing the nictus, sometimes just killin' Rommy far enough away that he never rezzes (that was sorta fun once we managed it), sometimes mezzing all three AVs and pulling one at a time, and sometimes just a knock down drag out brawler run. I've knuckle-dragged up Lag Mountain, I've tp-skipped and worked backwards, I've done pick & pull. I haven't done a "tank-stealth" on the cave mish, but I'd be interested to see it.
I think it's a good ITF 'cause it doesn't stick to one thing. Which, seeing as its a co-op TF that can bring in any variety of ATs - is probably a good thing.
"...his madness keeps him sane.": My Profile on VirtueVerse
Can You WIN the Internet? MA Arc #85544
Inhuman Resources - At Work with IE #298132
Task Force Mutternacht #349522 <-- 1st AE Challenge
[ QUOTE ]
No, I want competition, not a fight. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think he might mean something like SC or RV, where the ultimate objective is to control some outside objective.
For example, the TF involves trying to gain control of an "Item of Power". Heroes have their version of the TF that, if successful awards a control point for blueside. Villains have the the same for redside. Each alignment will compete to see who can successfully control the MacGuffin for the cause of Good or Evil. I would assume that the MacGuffin would somehow provide temp powers or buffs to the players of the controlling alignment, but that's getting ahead of myself.
That's what I see Smurch means as a "competitive TF"
"...his madness keeps him sane.": My Profile on VirtueVerse
Can You WIN the Internet? MA Arc #85544
Inhuman Resources - At Work with IE #298132
Task Force Mutternacht #349522 <-- 1st AE Challenge
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Co-op is not overdone, and there are only two Co-op zones/TFs in this game.
If anything I WANT SUM MO, I WANT SUM MO!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually kinda tired of heroes and villains being all chummy. I'd like to see things where we have PVE vs PVE, much like the battle zones in Siren's Call, but not necessarily PVP. Task forces that counter each other (via Oroborous for example) as villains do X and Heroes try to undo it, giving nice rewards to wresting control from one side or the other.
I want to see COMPETITIVE zones. It can't be that hard to do without resorting to lolpvp.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would be extremely interesting to see and take part in; I would totally be there.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Co-op is not overdone, and there are only two Co-op zones/TFs in this game.
If anything I WANT SUM MO, I WANT SUM MO!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually kinda tired of heroes and villains being all chummy. I'd like to see things where we have PVE vs PVE, much like the battle zones in Siren's Call, but not necessarily PVP. Task forces that counter each other (via Oroborous for example) as villains do X and Heroes try to undo it, giving nice rewards to wresting control from one side or the other.
I want to see COMPETITIVE zones. It can't be that hard to do without resorting to lolpvp.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would be extremely interesting to see and take part in; I would totally be there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Competitive raid. Villains trying to bust Recluse out of the Zigg following the STF, and heroes trying to stop them. Part of it involves summoning the signature heroes or villains to tip the scale. Optional PvP element in the "middle" where the raids overlap that can help tip the scale but isn't required or crucial. Generous rewards to draw people in. Hero or villain side can start it, but rewards go up depending on how many opponent players participate on the other side. Lesser rewards are assured just for taking part.
.
[ QUOTE ]
<some valid points snipped>
4) Few Mezzers: But tons of mobs with AoE heals, and every lieutenant or above is immune to mez. Combine this with ...
5) Melee Centric: Did you know that Arachnos Soldiers are weak to melee? Cimerorans tear my Bane Spider character up, even on lowest difficulty settings. The stacking -def(all) from all those spammed Broadsword attacks makes Cimeroran Traitors just about the only enemies that threaten my bots/FF mastermind, too. Let me guess: you're a tank with a resistance-based primary?
6) Enemies that are "just right"? Are you including that one spawn of 8 overlapping elite bosses? Or the long path going up the hill that tends to drop three spawns on you at a time (regular spawn, patrol from in front, patrol from somehow behind) right at the moment that the team lags out? No other TF or SF has ever produced so many consecutive team wipes for me, not even mission 3 of the Positron TF.
<more snippage>
8) Painless Maps: Except, of course, for the one map that lags everybody out just as they're coming into the middle of a swarm of overlapping ambushes. Or that cave where every 3rd spawn is a team-wiping Nictus crystal.
<snip>
10) Ample Reward: And deserves it, because it's a pain-in-the-neck TF.
11) Time: About right when it goes well, but time to completion is wildly variable, since your estimate of one hour doesn't include any of the time to line up the right mix of levels, doesn't include waiting for people to come back from any possible team wipes due to massive simultaneous elite boss fights or overlapping ambushes, and doesn't include however long the team spends standing around arguing about how we want to take down Romulus this time. I've had ITFs wrap up in less than an hour. I've had two of them give up at above the 3 hour mark, counting from when recruiting started.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, because you can't adapt your playstyle and are incompetent enough to "continually teamwipe" while almost everyone else posting has said that it's relatively easy, fun, and quick, the TF is the problem?
And since I don't know you, I'm just going by what you wrote. Your VEAT dies because you're too lazy to maintain range while mobs are closing in. Your team wipes on the cysts, presumably because nobody bothers to buff anyone else, try to debuff the enemies, or apparently build a character competently enough to survive a spawn that a mostly-SO'd Dark/Cold Corruptor was able to take out solo. You cite the healers as a problem when anyone with two neurons to rub together would be able to think to kill the minion that's causing the issue, and not only is "they can't be mezzed" just flatout untrue but if you have to have something mezzed and unable to attack in order to fight it then you should stick to bubble farms.
Learn2Play.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Co-op is not overdone, and there are only two Co-op zones/TFs in this game.
If anything I WANT SUM MO, I WANT SUM MO!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually kinda tired of heroes and villains being all chummy. I'd like to see things where we have PVE vs PVE, much like the battle zones in Siren's Call, but not necessarily PVP. Task forces that counter each other (via Oroborous for example) as villains do X and Heroes try to undo it, giving nice rewards to wresting control from one side or the other.
I want to see COMPETITIVE zones. It can't be that hard to do without resorting to lolpvp.
[/ QUOTE ]
A very cool idea! I nominate Boomtown for the PvE Competitive Zone!
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
1) Wide Range: Which means that just like regular missions and just like saucer raids, you get level 35s who feel entitled to have half the team be level 50s, because they feel entitled to be sidekicked. So recruiting for one, once you get the four level 35-45s, grinds to halt as you try to recruit more 50s.
[/ QUOTE ]
As far as I'm concerned there is no point in trying to do this unless you already got several people all around the same level. It's worse than trying to recruit for a Respec Trial as the level range is even bigger so good luck finding several level 41s to do it with you. You're better off waiting till 50 or joining a team of 50s.
[ QUOTE ]
Miniobjectives. There are things that simply have to be done, X number of mobs that have to be defeated, bosses that have to be fought. You can't sit at the door and stealth your way past the entire damn thing, get the hostages killed, stealth/tp to the end and fight the AV... You actually have to fight.
I like to fight. Yes, the TF can be finished fast by a steamroller team, but there still has to be fighting. That's why I TF.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rampant stealthing and speedrun merit farming is why I don't do TFs without my friends anymore. Recruiting a PuG is too much of damn crapshoot.
[ QUOTE ]
I do agree that the idea of soldiers with swords being able to go toe to toe with level 50 heroes and villains is just ludicrous.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. At least the Rikti are believably threatening.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do agree that the idea of soldiers with swords being able to go toe to toe with level 50 heroes and villains is just ludicrous.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. At least the Rikti are believably threatening.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree at all. A sword is low tech but it'll kill you just fine. To use a comic book analogy, while someone like Colossus would laugh at swords, a solid sword blow could kill Spiderman and most other characters in a heartbeat if it landed. What it would take for swords to be a threat to the average comic book character would be extremely large numbers of trained swordsmen with an absolutely suicidal desire to engage in combat. Which is exactly what's present on the ITF. I honestly don't see any verisimilitude problems at all.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree at all. A sword is low tech but it'll kill you just fine. To use a comic book analogy, while someone like Colossus would laugh at swords, a solid sword blow could kill Spiderman and most other characters in a heartbeat if it landed.
[/ QUOTE ]
The thing is, we've got Colossus-like characters in game and enough swords can kill them just fine.
You take a stock Invul Tanker, and by that I mean one running on just the powers in their Primary and not supplemented by Tough and/or IOs, and they're not laughing at Cimeroran swords at all.
Enemies wielding common swords shouldn't be featured in high level content as a any kind of challenge threat because common swords shouldn't be a threat to many high level characters. High level firey characters should be melting them on contact. Characters covered in stone should be breaking swords against their bodies. Invulnerable characters (even those without the Fighting pool) should be yanking them harmlessly out of their opponents hands and twisting them into knots.
By level 50, my character has stood up to anti-aircraft fire and not flinched. He's been hit by lightning countless times and walked away with a smile on his face. He's fought living infernos and robots with death rays.
Common Iron Age swords shouldn't scrach him in is prime. Five swords or fifty-five swords shouldn't matter.
Keep the scrub weapons and scrub enemies in the scrub levels.
.
[ QUOTE ]
The thing is, we've got Colossus-like characters in game and enough swords can kill them just fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a specious argument. That's the difference between a game and a comic book. If you're literally immune to any type of attack it breaks game balance.
[ QUOTE ]
Five swords or fifty-five swords shouldn't matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
One person against a soldier with an automatic weapon stands no chance. A huge mob will kill him if they're enraged enough not to run. Or for a slightly older analogy, one Sherman tank didn't stand much chance against a Tiger, but what about 5 Shermans or 10? This idea that "one of something isn't a threat so tons of that same something can't be" is rubbish.
[ QUOTE ]
Keep the scrub weapons and scrub enemies in the scrub levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
A sword doesn't have to be magical or a light saber to be dangerous. Who says Cimeroran Traitors are scrub enemies? By your reasoning I guess all Natural Origin broadsword scrappers are scrubs too, because all they're using are the same big pieces of sharpened steel the Cimerorans are. If Cimerorans are lvl 50-53 in the game world that means these dudes are tough and a huge threat, just the same as any broadsword scrapper can be a huge threat.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep the scrub weapons and scrub enemies in the scrub levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
A sword doesn't have to be magical or a light saber to be dangerous. Who says Cimeroran Traitors are scrub enemies? By your reasoning I guess all Natural Origin broadsword scrappers are scrubs too, because all they're using are the same big pieces of sharpened steel the Cimerorans are.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually he frequently makes arguments saying as much and the gist is basically that he has an Inv/SS Tanker and so he should never take damage because he's "invulnerable" and deal more damage than anything else "because he's super strong" in the game because that's his "concept".
He wants to play Superman, only without having to worry about Kryptonite.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
What a specious argument. That's the difference between a game and a comic book. If you're literally immune to any type of attack it breaks game balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
Characters are essentially "immune" to pistol fire after level 20 or so because the enemies stop using them and anything you encounter that does, is grey con. Characters are immune to Warrior and Tsoo swords too by the time they're 50. Which is where the Cimerorans and their crappy swords belonged; the mid levels.
[ QUOTE ]
Or for a slightly older analogy, one Sherman tank didn't stand much chance against a Tiger, but what about 5 Shermans or 10?
[/ QUOTE ]
That analogy is flawed. Tiger tanks weren't inulnerable to Sherman attacks. They could take more damage from a Sherman than a Sherman could take from them in the same ammount of time. A better analogy is someone throwing rocks at a Tiger. No matter if you have one person throwing rocks or a hundred, they're just going to plink off the sides. They are invulnerable to thrown rocks. Thrown boulders? Maybe not. But a boulder is not a rock, just as an energy blade is not an Iron Age relic.
[ QUOTE ]
By your reasoning I guess all Natural Origin broadsword scrappers are scrubs too, because all they're using are the same big pieces of sharpened steel the Cimerorans are.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Boradsword Scrapper get a pass because they are the star (I don't want to say 'hero' because this applies to CoV too) of the show.
Just in the same way John McClane can survive multiple gunshot wounds and still function while the nameless mooks he's fighting generally drop dead from one bullet, even though they're both just Natural men with guns.
Batman and Captain America fighting giant robots armed with death rays just shows how badass they are. Superman and Thor getting punked by ninjas armed with normal katanas is BS.
The Hero Rule(TM) of suspension of disbelief doesn't extend to NPCs like Cimeroran Traitors. This isn't their adventure.
.
I just find it amusing that I can take missiles and plasma beams to the face without blinking and be stomped on by a giant robot yet get away with hardly a scratch, yet suddenly a bunch of normal humans with swords are a huge threat.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, I want competition, not a fight. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think he might mean something like SC or RV, where the ultimate objective is to control some outside objective.
For example, the TF involves trying to gain control of an "Item of Power". Heroes have their version of the TF that, if successful awards a control point for blueside. Villains have the the same for redside. Each alignment will compete to see who can successfully control the MacGuffin for the cause of Good or Evil. I would assume that the MacGuffin would somehow provide temp powers or buffs to the players of the controlling alignment, but that's getting ahead of myself.
That's what I see Smurch means as a "competitive TF"
[/ QUOTE ]
Something along those lines, yes. Something that encourages a back-and-forth struggle between either side. Indirect conflict, if you like. Action-reaction. That sort of thing. The TF example is a very simplistic one, but it's pretty spot on for as far as it goes.
Something to give more of a Good vs Evil feel to the gameplay. Heroes and Villains cooperating sometimes is fine, but sometimes we should also be competing.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Batman and Captain America fighting giant robots armed with death rays just shows how badass they are. Superman and Thor getting punked by ninjas armed with normal katanas is BS.
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't get to be Superman, and you don't get to be Thor. Superman or Thor would be one-shotting bosses, and soloing AVs.
Batman or Captain America would be more in keeping with a level 50 character's power level. And they would still worry about being attacked by a swarm of ninjas, because a swarm of ninjas CAN KILL THEM.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Co-op is not overdone, and there are only two Co-op zones/TFs in this game.
If anything I WANT SUM MO, I WANT SUM MO!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually kinda tired of heroes and villains being all chummy. I'd like to see things where we have PVE vs PVE, much like the battle zones in Siren's Call, but not necessarily PVP. Task forces that counter each other (via Oroborous for example) as villains do X and Heroes try to undo it, giving nice rewards to wresting control from one side or the other.
I want to see COMPETITIVE zones. It can't be that hard to do without resorting to lolpvp.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would be extremely interesting to see and take part in; I would totally be there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Competitive raid. Villains trying to bust Recluse out of the Zigg following the STF, and heroes trying to stop them. Part of it involves summoning the signature heroes or villains to tip the scale. Optional PvP element in the "middle" where the raids overlap that can help tip the scale but isn't required or crucial. Generous rewards to draw people in. Hero or villain side can start it, but rewards go up depending on how many opponent players participate on the other side. Lesser rewards are assured just for taking part.
.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this idea. I'd be completely on board with that. There's so many forms this sort of thing could take. PVPVE like the above is one idea.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
Co-op is not overdone, and there are only two Co-op zones/TFs in this game.
If anything I WANT SUM MO, I WANT SUM MO!