So the fire/kin era is over?
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2009-07-04 10:44 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just was in Atlas with my Fire/Kin to pay my rent and noticed a broadcast for "all kin team". I thought of this thread immediately and joined up.
We ended up with 7 /kins....mostly fire...and one Scrapper (a low level friend of one of the kins). I figured, ok...this will be easy.
Nope. Those lvl 54 bosses wacked us around pretty good. At least one death per mob. The team was begging for a Tank very quickly. We had two Tankers by the end of the mish. A good experiment though. Fire/Kins aren't the king of farms anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everyone on that team, including the scrapper, should reroll.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the standard is, but I believe you have it placed too high.
We've got a few "uber-players" who seem to think everyone else should be that good too. Well....the average player isn't going to charge a group of lvl 54 bosses and yawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
No I think his point was if 7 /kins and scrapper aren't tearing through stuff they ALL need to re-roll. I agree.
I think he is saying they are a bunch of NOOBS if a team like that can't get it done (I would have used a stronger word than noobs if I didn't fear the Ocho. Cause that type of team having issues seems idiotic to me. I mean for god's sakes, how many FS and SB is that? 
), not that he expects the scrapper or just one of the /kins to charge in alone one at a time.
Hell even if only 2-3 of the /kins had taken ID and used it on the scrapper, it would be like having a near tank.
Yeah that entire team needed to re-roll. Sorry.
[/ QUOTE ]
You hit the nail on the head.
There is no reason, NONE, outside of certain AV fights that a group of seven controllers shouldn't be able to lockdown ANYTHING that comes their way. Hell, even three trollers can perma-immob and, depending upon primary, perma-hold /-stun a group of bosses. Realistically two can do it, but there is that pesky 5% rule, so let's agree to make it three to be safe.
Bleh, that's all I got.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just was in Atlas with my Fire/Kin to pay my rent and noticed a broadcast for "all kin team". I thought of this thread immediately and joined up.
We ended up with 7 /kins....mostly fire...and one Scrapper (a low level friend of one of the kins). I figured, ok...this will be easy.
Nope. Those lvl 54 bosses wacked us around pretty good. At least one death per mob. The team was begging for a Tank very quickly. We had two Tankers by the end of the mish. A good experiment though. Fire/Kins aren't the king of farms anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everyone on that team, including the scrapper, should reroll.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the standard is, but I believe you have it placed too high.
We've got a few "uber-players" who seem to think everyone else should be that good too. Well....the average player isn't going to charge a group of lvl 54 bosses and yawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
No I think his point was if 7 /kins and scrapper aren't tearing through stuff they ALL need to re-roll. I agree.
I think he is saying they are a bunch of NOOBS if a team like that can't get it done (I would have used a stronger word than noobs if I didn't fear the Ocho. Cause that type of team having issues seems idiotic to me. I mean for god's sakes, how many FS and SB is that? ), not that he expects the scrapper or just one of the /kins to charge in alone one at a time.
Hell even if only 2-3 of the /kins had taken ID and used it on the scrapper, it would be like having a near tank.
Yeah that entire team needed to re-roll. Sorry.
[/ QUOTE ]
We're talking about big groups of lvl 54 bosses. And no matter how good you think your timing is....someone is going to get the alpha strike. Whoever hit flashfire a fraction of a second before anyone else gets at least 4 or 5 +4 bosses taking a shot at you. If there is some way that "experience" makes you have more hitpoints, I would love to hear it. That lowbie scrapper got faceplanted a couple of times trying to go in first. Sure you'll win....but someone is going to die almost every group. I even swallowed 3 purps and got killed once. +4 bosses have some great acc I guess. (And it doesn't take many hits from them to do you in)
I had a pretty fun time personally. I didn't think anyone "sucked" or anything. It's like the Clockwork King...a bunch of damage coming at you at one time. The Alpha Strike was the problem. Someone was going to get it more often than not.
It was an interesting experiment and we just found out we needed a more well rounded team. Nothing more to it than that. If that offends some that still want to think Fire/Kins are gods, so be it.
[ QUOTE ]
But you have a point. For a 54 boss mission, a good tank and a well-built team are not afterthoughts. Some people get that, some don't. I was on a team yesterday where the leader very carefully picked out veteran players/good players with good builds (he commented on mine so I know he was paying attention to these things). Took extra time to assemble the team, but it ran really smoothly. On a different team, similar mission, lots of people dying and the leader was frustrated because things weren't working the way they were supposed to..."something's wrong... we shouldn't be having this much trouble!" he kept saying... but of course he'd just assemble a random group of 8 people together, several of which were mid to lower level. No real clue what made a good team for that kind of mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, my few experiences AE farming were like the latter; I could have done better running radio missions, people kept dying and the team leader didn't know why, and I didn't have the time to explain how the game worked to him. For starters, a lvl 12 tank with no buffers on the team isn't going to be able to soak the alpha from an 8-person lvl 54 boss mission, sigh. . .
I agree it calls for more teamwork then old-style farming, but I fear that it generates a group of people with high level characters who don't actually understand why some teams succeed and others fail because they barely understand what their own powers do, let alone anyone elses. They become convinced that the key to success is picking the right AE farm mission, rather than actually having a few core competent players, because "it worked great last night on this OTHER AE arc. . ."
[ QUOTE ]
We're talking about big groups of lvl 54 bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't care what people farm, but saying that the era of Fire/Kin is over is crazy. They have been and still are the best solo toon to farm with. Can they solo 54 Bosses? Probably not. Can the solo 52 bosses? Mine can. Pre AE, there was no such thing as farming 54 bosses, let alone 54 anything.
[ QUOTE ]
And no matter how good you think your timing is....someone is going to get the alpha strike. Whoever hit flashfire a fraction of a second before anyone else gets at least 4 or 5 +4 bosses taking a shot at you. If there is some way that "experience" makes you have more hitpoints, I would love to hear it
[/ QUOTE ]
Anything that takes an alpha from level 54 bosses is 1)Going to die or 2) Survive, almost be dead and die from the next shot and probably has very little damage output.
The only way I've been able to run 54 boss farms is with team mates who have lots of buffs. 2 or 3 people fully IO'd and one of them being someone who can buff will probably be able to run a boss farm set on a team size of 8.
Usually, when I get blind invites, if the farm is 54 bosses, I quit. If I get tells for farms, I'll reply that if the farm isn't 54 bosses I'll join. 52 bosses are doable, but time consuming to drop. There was a reason people filled maps with a team size of 6 and not 8 pre AE.
[ QUOTE ]
That lowbie scrapper got faceplanted a couple of times trying to go in first. Sure you'll win....but someone is going to die almost every group. I even swallowed 3 purps and got killed once. +4 bosses have some great acc I guess. (And it doesn't take many hits from them to do you in)
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. Nothing that I know of can solo farm a large group of level 54 bosses and live. If I am wrong, please supply the toon and build that can do this in a timely manner.
[ QUOTE ]
If that offends some that still want to think Fire/Kins are gods, so be it.
[/ QUOTE ]
If being able to solo 52 Behemoth bosses on a team size of 8 != gods, then your point is valid.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fire/kins are still good. The real farmers use them on LT farms. These AE noobs are running 54 boss missions with tanks and emps, which is about as inefficient as you can get.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not if there are AVs mixed in with the bosses. And I've been on teams where lvl 54 bosses melt. And no I'm not talking about noob teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the beauty of it is that now, ANY team can farm as a team. So, in a way, farming is "worse", in that everyone is doing it, because they can. It isnt just the fire/kins.
Of course, I know some circles of farmers and some of them still simply have 1 or 2 of them run the classic maps on their fire/kins and spines/darks with only LTs and the odd boss or two, because its faster and simpler, and you have a chance at purple drops.
In a way, the AE / common denominator farming has kinda let a lot of the private farmers get some peace and quiet from the "loud" fire/kins that annoy everyone. Those loud guys seem to be moving over to AE stuff and with other builds. But hey, at least it is more egalitarian.
But, its just an impression, and I could be totally wrong.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're talking about big groups of lvl 54 bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't care what people farm, but saying that the era of Fire/Kin is over is crazy. They have been and still are the best solo toon to farm with. Can they solo 54 Bosses? Probably not. Can the solo 52 bosses? Mine can. Pre AE, there was no such thing as farming 54 bosses, let alone 54 anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are saying what I am saying. Fire/Kins were the kings of solo farming before AE.
I know something has changed... dramatically. One instance of PI on Freedom? On a Sunday afternoon? Nothing in broadcast? It's like we got a new zone for the 40+ game. Getting a team in that lvl range was a piece of cake this weekend. (Though I never had too much trouble before either.) No tells to fill? No one charging influence?
All the main things the anti-farmers used to complain about appear to be gone. I'm sure there are some Fire/Kins out there solo farming something....but I haven't seen them.
I do question the wisdom of this new farming though. Is lvl 54 bosses really that efficient? Some of those fights can last a while. There was a very good reason why Fire/Kins avoided bosses like the plague in the old days. While you can solo lvl 52 bosses, that appeared to be out of reach for most.
[ QUOTE ]
They'll be back.... AND in GREATER numbers!
[/Ben Kenobi]
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. Awesome.
[ QUOTE ]
I do question the wisdom of this new farming though. Is lvl 54 bosses really that efficient? Some of those fights can last a while.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, lvl 54 boss farms suck. Level 52 AE boss farms give you way more inf/xp/minute and can be done by a team post-SO level.
[ QUOTE ]
Fire/Kins were the kings of solo farming before AE
[/ QUOTE ]
Fire/Kins are still the kings of solo farming.
There are alot of close seconds.
[ QUOTE ]
One instance of PI on Freedom? On a Sunday afternoon? Nothing in broadcast? It's like we got a new zone for the 40+ game
[/ QUOTE ]
Atlas Park
[ QUOTE ]
No tells to fill?
[/ QUOTE ]
With AE, no fill is required. You can farm quite nicely now using defendable objects. They increase spawn size.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure there are some Fire/Kins out there solo farming something....but I haven't seen them.
[/ QUOTE ]
They fit in nicely on a group for a 54 boss farm team. They can now also farm solo without looking for fill.
[ QUOTE ]
Is lvl 54 bosses really that efficient?
[/ QUOTE ]
No
[ QUOTE ]
While you can solo lvl 52 bosses, that appeared to be out of reach for most.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can solo lvl 52 bosses that do damage which my fire/kin is highly resistant to. Any other group of 52 bosses would smother my fire/kin. It's still not effieceint to do those even. LT's is the best for a fire/kin.
[ QUOTE ]
Fire/Kins are still the kings of solo farming.
[/ QUOTE ]
That appears to be like bragging on how many 8-track cassettes you own. Because, as you say...
[ QUOTE ]
Atlas Park
[/ QUOTE ]
The Fire/Kin era was PI. That's now over. Maybe this past weekend was an abnormality or something, but it looked like farming is a team thing now. The Fire/Kin is "king" of something that isn't done any more.
[ QUOTE ]
With AE, no fill is required. You can farm quite nicely now using defendable objects. They increase spawn size.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sweet. So everybody wins on that one. I didn't mind filling so much, but I know that was the #1 complaint before. Now it's even easier to avoid any contact with the farmers. 
[ QUOTE ]
The Fire/Kin era was PI. That's now over. Maybe this past weekend was an abnormality or something, but it looked like farming is a team thing now. The Fire/Kin is "king" of something that isn't done any more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, what? Fire/Kins farming anywhere other than PI don't count? Fire/Kins don't exist if they're farming in Atlas instead of PI? I don't get what you're saying. Fire/Kins are still around, and still farming, possibly even more than before, they're just doing it somewhere else. And you're saying that doesn't count and it's the end of an era?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
I still play my lvl 50 fire/kin and have fun doing it. I usually just solo, since I typically play at 5 am est. I could farm maps or team but everyone in America is asleep. Either way works for me. The best thing about AE is meeting new ppl, the worst thing is meeting new ppl that are lvl 50 and suck at using their toon.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Fire/Kin era was PI. That's now over. Maybe this past weekend was an abnormality or something, but it looked like farming is a team thing now. The Fire/Kin is "king" of something that isn't done any more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, what? Fire/Kins farming anywhere other than PI don't count? Fire/Kins don't exist if they're farming in Atlas instead of PI? I don't get what you're saying. Fire/Kins are still around, and still farming, possibly even more than before, they're just doing it somewhere else. And you're saying that doesn't count and it's the end of an era?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think some are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
I'm not saying Fire/Kins now suck.
I'm not saying they can't farm.
I'm saying their era is over.
By "era" I mean...well...surely you know what it was like when Fire/Kins ruled, yes? Farming meant "Fire/Kins" before. All weekend I saw a completely different farming culture....one that does not center around the Fire/Kin. A player would not even have to own a Fire/Kin to farm non-stop now. And wouldn't have to pay either. If it isn't different now, then I don't know what qualifies as "different". This is as dramatic a change as I've seen. Now they seem to start with a Tanker and fill out the team from there. Sure they'll take a Fire/Kin....just like they will take a Defender. (Nothing like a debuffed boss)
If Fire/Kins are "farming more than before" they are certainly well hidden. Nothing could have been more visible before. So I find it tough to believe that they have all suddenly gotten secretive.
Mmmm
Fire/Kins are the best farmers bar none, still under AE conditions. But in order for them to be truly efficient, the environment has to be just right.
To begin with, they are controllers. As such, they have extremely good chances to lock down in one cast any Minions and most LTs. But Bosses will require 2 to 3 mez hits to lock them down, this is really bad, for bosses have their own status effects and hit really hard; two things that can bring down a controller really, really fast. If you have one boss in a large group, the controller has a reasonable chance on locking them all down and surviving the bosses one or two attacks. If the boss opens with a mez, the controller is generally owned, unless using a break free; but depending on break frees can become very costly.
When one thinks of AE farms, we think level 54 all boss mobs; well this is way too difficult for any controller to handle alone. Thus the more common team approach of aggroe holding tank, emp to keep the tank alive and blasters to clear the mobs quickly comes much more into mind as the right set up.
But if you keep devs happy, and fight mostly Lts and Minions, then the Controller gets to shine. I figure if one was to do a ticket/hour or inf/hour study; I bet the controllers superior clear the map efficiency would produce better results despite of them fighting level 52 Lts and Minions as opposed to the full group defeating 54 Bosses.
I do know that bosses have a superior chance to drop something than a LT; what I do not know if the level difference does. Thus for tickets, it may not be a good idea to fight anything beyond 50 from a drop wise perspective, exp or influence that is enterly a different matter.
Hugs
Stormy
[ QUOTE ]
The Fire/Kin era was PI. That's now over. Maybe this past weekend was an abnormality or something, but it looked like farming is a team thing now. The Fire/Kin is "king" of something that isn't done any more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your assuming that nobody is solo farming lvl 52 lt's on a Fire/Kin. It's incorrect to try and predict what people are doing behind closed doors. You'll never know for sure.
[ QUOTE ]
By "era" I mean...well...surely you know what it was like when Fire/Kins ruled, yes? Farming meant "Fire/Kins" before. All weekend I saw a completely different farming culture....one that does not center around the Fire/Kin. A player would not even have to own a Fire/Kin to farm non-stop now.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is correct. You can now farm with any toon since you can customize your enemies to your strengths. However, a fire/kin is still the "best" soloer.
[ QUOTE ]
And wouldn't have to pay either.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's always good practice to charge influence if you are going to run more than one person on your farm. It weeds out all the people who are new. I hate PLing new players to the game. Most of the time I'm farming with friends, but occasionaly, I'll get extra people.
A Fire/Kin is still the best for this because they have the DPS and the survivability to solo farm, so people paying can either door sit, or participate.
Do people have to pay? No. Most likely, they'll be able to get on a team that will be able to PL themselves. But low level toons are the most likly to pay influence because unless your a low level on a high level team, getting a free ride to 22 is hard, with the exception of the new farm which will probably be fixed soon.
[ QUOTE ]
Now they seem to start with a Tanker and fill out the team from there. Sure they'll take a Fire/Kin
[/ QUOTE ]
I always try to get any type of /kin or kin/ on a farm team. FS is the best buff in the game by farm. It maxes everyone's DPS. A Fire/Kin offers the best buff in the game, and DPS on top of it. So out of all the /kin or kin/ I prefer fire/kin.
[ QUOTE ]
If Fire/Kins are "farming more than before" they are certainly well hidden. Nothing could have been more visible before. So I find it tough to believe that they have all suddenly gotten secretive.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll admit, I'm not farming with my fire/kin at the moment. I have been playing a fire/kin for quite awhile, but my best fire/kin is on the justice server, and I recently started playing on virtue. I've made a change to see what all the hype was about arch/mm blasters, and made a ss/ice tank. My fire/kin is still better than my arch/mm or my ss/ice tank.
I can't see an argument for anything other than fire/kin on the solo front. Too much synergy going on.
I do my farming with a fire/rad- he's not as fast as a fire/kin, but he gets the job done and everybody wants him for teams when I'm in that kind of mood.
He's also a ton of fun to duo with my pal's fire tank.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I'm not sure if any of you have noticed, but the mobs in 54 boss farms (post I15) seem to be smaller. There are some mobs that seem to be normal, while others only have five.
Another thing is if a lowbie is sk'd to a 46, and we're on a 6 or 8 man warrior clan/bm/demon/freak farm, that lowbie will get the same or better xp as a lvl 53 boss farm (54 boss farm will give more xp per kill, but if there's one lowbie in a lvl 54 boss farm it'll slow the run down).
Over all, as long as you have a good fire/kin, a warrior clan/bm farm will give more xp per hour to a lowbie than a 54 boss farm, and possibly a 53/52 boss farm.
The only reason some people think the fire/kin era is over is because everyone is in Atlas Park. Which is bad because all of the new people will probably never leave AP.
Now if the newer players, and the vet's who have apparently forgotten, learn that Peregrine Island farms (when sk'd to a 46) give more xp than a boss farm in AP, they'll more than likely go to PI, and even pay a mil or two.
OK, that's how we get the lowbies over there, how would you get the fire/kins out of AP then?
Tell them that if they charge 1 mil for a 48-50, and 2 mil for a 46/47, they would be making anywhere from 4-8 million before the run, than u have to take into account drops (which may include purple drops).
Most runs last 15 minutes on a BM map, and approximately 45 minutes on a lib. map, so I'm pretty sure if better xp for the lowbies and more influence for the fire/kins get involved, the farming in PI will get back to normal.
Here's something for all of you that don't want fire/kins to go back to PI, whether that be because you're against farming (but somehow you're ok with ae boss farms) or because you never built a fire/kin (or because you built one and couldn't farm well with him for some reason): if we bring back PI farming, than the market (as far as invention recipes go) will get back to normal.
If you want to argue with me for some odd reason (trolling) go ahead.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just was in Atlas with my Fire/Kin to pay my rent and noticed a broadcast for "all kin team". I thought of this thread immediately and joined up.
We ended up with 7 /kins....mostly fire...and one Scrapper (a low level friend of one of the kins). I figured, ok...this will be easy.
Nope. Those lvl 54 bosses wacked us around pretty good. At least one death per mob. The team was begging for a Tank very quickly. We had two Tankers by the end of the mish. A good experiment though. Fire/Kins aren't the king of farms anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everyone on that team, including the scrapper, should reroll.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the standard is, but I believe you have it placed too high.
We've got a few "uber-players" who seem to think everyone else should be that good too. Well....the average player isn't going to charge a group of lvl 54 bosses and yawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
No I think his point was if 7 /kins and scrapper aren't tearing through stuff they ALL need to re-roll. I agree.
I think he is saying they are a bunch of NOOBS if a team like that can't get it done (I would have used a stronger word than noobs if I didn't fear the Ocho. Cause that type of team having issues seems idiotic to me. I mean for god's sakes, how many FS and SB is that? ), not that he expects the scrapper or just one of the /kins to charge in alone one at a time.
Hell even if only 2-3 of the /kins had taken ID and used it on the scrapper, it would be like having a near tank.
Yeah that entire team needed to re-roll. Sorry.
[/ QUOTE ]
We're talking about big groups of lvl 54 bosses. And no matter how good you think your timing is....someone is going to get the alpha strike. Whoever hit flashfire a fraction of a second before anyone else gets at least 4 or 5 +4 bosses taking a shot at you. If there is some way that "experience" makes you have more hitpoints, I would love to hear it. That lowbie scrapper got faceplanted a couple of times trying to go in first. Sure you'll win....but someone is going to die almost every group. I even swallowed 3 purps and got killed once. +4 bosses have some great acc I guess. (And it doesn't take many hits from them to do you in)
I had a pretty fun time personally. I didn't think anyone "sucked" or anything. It's like the Clockwork King...a bunch of damage coming at you at one time. The Alpha Strike was the problem. Someone was going to get it more often than not.
It was an interesting experiment and we just found out we needed a more well rounded team. Nothing more to it than that. If that offends some that still want to think Fire/Kins are gods, so be it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I by myself on my plant/kin was able to ID a single scrapper to be able to withstand the alpha from a Lord Recluse mob and a Statesman mob.
Not buying it.
EDIT: To clarify, if a single /kin can ID a scrapper to withstand something like that then 7 /kins should be able to do so for the scrapper to take the alpha. Unless they don't buff or NONE of them didn't take ID. I find that highly unlikely.
I find it more likely that since they are fire/kins they are NOT used to buffing others and they didn't take ID. In that case ya, they need to re-roll.
Solo farming is NOT the same as farming on a team.
A team of fire/kins and a scrapper should HAVE NO ISSUE taking on lvl 54 bosses. Sorry. The amount of transfusions, transferences, ID, sb and Fulcrum shift, and stuns and immobs and imps going around should not give such a team an issue.
EDIT 2: Team farms in AE that are going after lvl 54s are VERY coordinated in what they do, unless they are utter and complete noobs. It's very easy to tell if such a team will be able to do it within the first few mobs. Just putting together any haphazard team and thinking that you can farm lvl 54s is foolishness that is common.
However, it is VERY easy if you pre-plan to build a EXPERIENCED team where SOMEONE on the team can take the alpha of a lvl 54 boss farm VERY easily.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Fire/Kin era was PI. That's now over. Maybe this past weekend was an abnormality or something, but it looked like farming is a team thing now. The Fire/Kin is "king" of something that isn't done any more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your assuming that nobody is solo farming lvl 52 lt's on a Fire/Kin. It's incorrect to try and predict what people are doing behind closed doors. You'll never know for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming nothing.
I'm stating very clearly that we do not have Fire/Kins running around dominating the farm culture any more. I'm stating that things have changed....dramatically. And they have. The whole farm culture is a completely different thing than it was a couple of months ago. If Fire/Kins are running solo farms out of sight then that is more proof of what I'm saying. Nothing in the game was more visible before...seemed like half the toons in PI were Fire/Kins. Now we have to "assume" they are out there still doing it? How is that not dramatically different than before? (Which is what I'm saying)
My Fire/Kin was the only one on the first farm I tried and I wasn't the lead/most important member of the team by any means. This new farming is nothing like the old farms. My Fire/Fire Blaster was more valuable than any Fire/Kin could hope to be. And Blasters in general seem to be in demand...which is kinda nice. Probably right after the Tanker you would grab Blasters I would think. Get some Controllers for immobilization, Defenders for debuff/buffing/healing and you're ready to roll. I consider this a vast improvement.
[ QUOTE ]
I always try to get any type of /kin or kin/ on a farm team. FS is the best buff in the game by farm. It maxes everyone's DPS. A Fire/Kin offers the best buff in the game, and DPS on top of it. So out of all the /kin or kin/ I prefer fire/kin.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm more of a /Rad person myself. Most versatile and stacks like no other. 
[ QUOTE ]
I by myself on my plant/kin was able to ID a single scrapper to be able to withstand the alpha from a Lord Recluse mob and a Statesman mob.
Not buying it.
EDIT: To clarify, if a single /kin can ID a scrapper to withstand something like that then 7 /kins should be able to do so for the scrapper to take the alpha. Unless they don't buff or NONE of them didn't take ID. I find that highly unlikely.
I find it more likely that since they are fire/kins they are NOT used to buffing others and they didn't take ID. In that case ya, they need to re-roll.
Solo farming is NOT the same as farming on a team.
A team of fire/kins and a scrapper should HAVE NO ISSUE taking on lvl 54 bosses. Sorry. The amount of transfusions, transferences, ID, sb and Fulcrum shift, and stuns and immobs and imps going around should not give such a team an issue.
EDIT 2: Team farms in AE that are going after lvl 54s are VERY coordinated in what they do, unless they are utter and complete noobs. It's very easy to tell if such a team will be able to do it within the first few mobs. Just putting together any haphazard team and thinking that you can farm lvl 54s is foolishness that is common.
However, it is VERY easy if you pre-plan to build a EXPERIENCED team where SOMEONE on the team can take the alpha of a lvl 54 boss farm VERY easily.
[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of "smarmy" in that post!
I guess no one on that team shares your opinion of ID. Perhaps that power will become a standard farming power like some of the other ones were before. A "farm build" should include ID maybe.
The "issue" was that someone tended to die almost every fight....we able to kill them after that. /Kin doesn't stack well either....so 7 of them wasn't any better than 3 of them. 7 /Rads would have kicked the crap out of 7 /Kins, performance-wise. The recharge time was a thing of beauty though...sigh. Having the AOE hold up every fight was nice.
I'm certainly not re-rolling because I couldn't find room for ID. As a teleporter, I need Hover...which led to Fly (for moving fast inside missions...teleport sucks for that). I also love things like Bonfire more than ID...because it is great solo. (I open every Boss fight with it) My epic pool (psi) was also more important to me than ID. Sorry...it's my build and it's worked for years with no complaints from anyone thank you. I won't insist you take Bonfire, deal?
Your 2nd edit describes what I'm talking about. The common farm now is a coordinated TEAM. You also admit that the " haphazard team and thinking that you can farm lvl 54s is foolishness that is common". This was a quick pickup team that the leader thought would be fun. (remember fun?) He wanted an all Kin team. We managed to get 7 plus the lowbie Scrapper. That was all the thought that went into it. It doesn't mean "everyone should reroll". It just means that the Alpha was a problem and that there is a good reason why the standard farm team now isn't one Fire/Kin and 5 doorsitters. (It also could mean that most of those Fire/Kins were ex farmers who still think they are gods)
As you say, "However, it is VERY easy if you pre-plan to build a EXPERIENCED team where SOMEONE on the team can take the alpha of a lvl 54 boss farm VERY easily." That is the current climate in farming. Which is dramatically different from the Fire/Kin era where there was zero planning. You needed a Fire/Kin....end of "planning".
So to sum it up:
Pre AE farms-no planning...roll and Fire/Kin, get the demon map, and invite 5 people.
Post AE farms-plan or fail...grab a Tanker, Blasters, Controllers, Defenders....but you don't even need a Fire/Kin.
[ QUOTE ]
), not that he expects the scrapper or just one of the /kins to charge in alone one at a time.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just was in Atlas with my Fire/Kin to pay my rent and noticed a broadcast for "all kin team". I thought of this thread immediately and joined up.
We ended up with 7 /kins....mostly fire...and one Scrapper (a low level friend of one of the kins). I figured, ok...this will be easy.
Nope. Those lvl 54 bosses wacked us around pretty good. At least one death per mob. The team was begging for a Tank very quickly. We had two Tankers by the end of the mish. A good experiment though. Fire/Kins aren't the king of farms anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everyone on that team, including the scrapper, should reroll.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the standard is, but I believe you have it placed too high.
We've got a few "uber-players" who seem to think everyone else should be that good too. Well....the average player isn't going to charge a group of lvl 54 bosses and yawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
No I think his point was if 7 /kins and scrapper aren't tearing through stuff they ALL need to re-roll. I agree.
I think he is saying they are a bunch of NOOBS if a team like that can't get it done (I would have used a stronger word than noobs if I didn't fear the Ocho. Cause that type of team having issues seems idiotic to me. I mean for god's sakes, how many FS and SB is that?
Hell even if only 2-3 of the /kins had taken ID and used it on the scrapper, it would be like having a near tank.
Yeah that entire team needed to re-roll. Sorry.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!