AE system has ruined CoH/CoV for me...
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2009-06-25 10:11 in Mission Architect
Just so you get things straight. AE like any technology, is neither good, nor bad. It simply enables. It enables people to make wonderful missions and story-arcs, that are fun to play and interesting to read... but it also enables people to make farms, and by doing so, increase the level of exposure of both farming and using exploits as tempting concepts.
If you're looking for someone to blame, don't blame the tool, don't blame just the Devs who probably knew or were at least warned about the impact AE may have... if you're looking for someone to blame, blame also those people in the community who could not resist the temptation to create farming missions left and right and made a point to use AE to level up and gain rewards using the most effecient methods while not considering what impact this would have on the game, and its community.
We're all in this boat together... well, except those who leave.. 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
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DOOOM + 1
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No, it's not just Doom! This is a legitimate and real complaint and problem.
I have the same complaint. People just want to PL through AE now. Running around in a circle fighting the same enemies over and over is NOT my idea of fun. But when I put in my LFG description, and in my LFG shouts, "Not looking for farms" i still get invited to them left and right. AE HAS taken a lot of fun out of the game for me.
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
Check out my Deviant Art: http://darkauthor81.deviantart.com/
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DOOOM + 1
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No, it's not just Doom! This is a legitimate and real complaint and problem.
I have the same complaint. People just want to PL through AE now. Running around in a circle fighting the same enemies over and over is NOT my idea of fun. But when I put in my LFG description, and in my LFG shouts, "Not looking for farms" i still get invited to them left and right. AE HAS taken a lot of fun out of the game for me.
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Wierd, I put up my lfg and end up having to make my own teams. Guess youre wrong because my anecdotal evidence cant be.
l2p
For those of you who are lame. its okay to l2p.
Ae didnt ruin your game. You let your fear of AE ruin your game. You let your inability to get out of atlas/cap, turn off broadcast and hit up server channels for teams ruin your game. Im in several sg's and I just made a new one of all rads today on virtue with people on Vu2009.
Its not rocket science. THE DEVS do not need to fix anything. l2p
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DOOOM + 1
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No, it's not just Doom! This is a legitimate and real complaint and problem.
I have the same complaint. People just want to PL through AE now. Running around in a circle fighting the same enemies over and over is NOT my idea of fun. But when I put in my LFG description, and in my LFG shouts, "Not looking for farms" i still get invited to them left and right. AE HAS taken a lot of fun out of the game for me.
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Wierd, I put up my lfg and end up having to make my own teams. Guess youre wrong because my anecdotal evidence cant be.
l2p
For those of you who are lame. its okay to l2p.
Ae didnt ruin your game. You let your fear of AE ruin your game. You let your inability to get out of atlas/cap, turn off broadcast and hit up server channels for teams ruin your game. Im in several sg's and I just made a new one of all rads today on virtue with people on Vu2009.
Its not rocket science. THE DEVS do not need to fix anything. l2p
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Awww there's a troll that hasn't made it to my ignore list. Hey there little guy! Sorry I some how have missed you for this long.
It's depressing though. Your avatar picture is fantastic. Oh well. Guess you can't tell a book by its cover.
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
Check out my Deviant Art: http://darkauthor81.deviantart.com/
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But lowering the bar to let more people in doesn't necessarily mean that better quality people will enter. In fact, it means the opposite. My point is that the AE system, as it currently stands, has seriously lowered the bar.
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This "bar" of yours is very arbitrary is it not? And, why should it matter? They're not trying out for a sports team. CoH players are paying money to have fun in their own way. If they "suck," but they're having fun regardless, isn't that the ultimate goal of a game is suppose to be?
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if you're looking for someone to blame, blame also those people in the community who could not resist the temptation to create farming missions left and right and made a point to use AE to level up and gain rewards using the most effecient methods while not considering what impact this would have on the game, and its community.
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The impact is that they're getting the most enjoyment out of their monthly fees. There is no "right" way to have fun. Everyone has fun differently.
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I have the same complaint. People just want to PL through AE now. Running around in a circle fighting the same enemies over and over is NOT my idea of fun. But when I put in my LFG description, and in my LFG shouts, "Not looking for farms" i still get invited to them left and right. AE HAS taken a lot of fun out of the game for me.
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Not your idea of fun, but it seems to be fun for alot of other people. If you don't want to do what they do, then just don't do it, but don't expect other people to stop doing what's fun for them so they team with you and do only what's fun for you.
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The impact is that they're getting the most enjoyment out of their monthly fees. There is no "right" way to have fun. Everyone has fun differently.
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While this is true enough, there is a wrong way to "play" the game, which is determined not by any of us, but by the devs.
And if they determine that too many people are playing the game in this terribly-all-wrong fashion, they'll take steps to address it... as they've done in the past.
In the meantime, I think people need to just adapt and roll with it. The game isn't static. The experience evolves. Things change, break and need to be tinkered with. It's an MMO. It's just the nature of the beast. Ya gotta expect it.
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Here's my thought on AE in Atlas at least...it replaces the sewer runs. If someone dies the hospital is right there. Inspirations are available without having to "unlock" a contact that requires running around a big zone.
I like to stay until level 14 when I get my travel power without the "Kings Row" run around for temp travel powers. Then it's off to greener pastures with bunches of tickets to use for recipe/salvage so I can afford to buy DO's/SO's.
You don't even have to "farm", just run an AE mission, there are lowbie ones available. Some ain't half bad.
Noght 50 Scrapper Broadsword/Invulnerability
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Champion Server
I dont know what the answer is... but i was lucky enuff to get on a regular team the other day.
I am hoping as time goes by more and more people will feel the same.
DOnt get me wrong i love farming but i also love teaming... teaming is dead
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
i got so bored with all of this i actually made an arc the otehr day.... i just couldnt bring myself to sit in on another farm.... enuff is enuff
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
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DOnt get me wrong i love farming but i also love teaming... teaming is dead
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The only difference I tend to notice between most farms and most public group missions is enemy type and scenery. The actual teaming process is the same - people try to get the most efficient group possible to blow through all of the content in as short a time as possible in order to maximize rewards and minimize losses. In a way, I actually tend to find farms more fun than your average public team, especially on characters like my Bots/Pain Mastermind, because normal missions are so horribly easy that I can just turn Nullify Pain on auto and occasionally tab back in to make sure I'm still with the group. Farms - especially with less-than-optimal groups - are the only ones that end up providing any sort of challenge.
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DOnt get me wrong i love farming but i also love teaming... teaming is dead
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The only difference I tend to notice between most farms and most public group missions is enemy type and scenery. The actual teaming process is the same - people try to get the most efficient group possible to blow through all of the content in as short a time as possible in order to maximize rewards and minimize losses. In a way, I actually tend to find farms more fun than your average public team, especially on characters like my Bots/Pain Mastermind, because normal missions are so horribly easy that I can just turn Nullify Pain on auto and occasionally tab back in to make sure I'm still with the group. Farms - especially with less-than-optimal groups - are the only ones that end up providing any sort of challenge.
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That's it, then surely you haven't brought your MM on some of the real game challenges. Go on take him on the Impervious TF see how much of a cake walk that is speeding threw with your army of guys, even with your nullify pain
Sorry to hear that your enjoyment of the game is lessoned. I agree with you that finding Pugs is harder but everyone always says not to Pug :P
If you haven't left yet you could try running some missions with our group if you have or would like to roll a toon on Liberty. There is almost always one of us online and we team constantly. Since I joined the group my enjoyment of CoX has improved greatly as I use to solo a lot.
Give me a shout @Ghost Warrior.
I can't comment on the current status or availability of teams these days because I always solo. About a year ago I moved out into the country where the only internet connection available is dial up, so teams are lag-flavored death as far as I'm concerned.
However, even though I try to avoid Atlas Park, sometimes a contact will send me there for a mission and, unless it's dark-thirty in the morning, I'll lag out and drop connection shortly after zoning.
Of course I play on Virtue (have for years - can't switch now), so I dunno what it's like on other servers. So even though the team thing might not bother me so much (I'm sure it would if I teamed), I sure wouldn't complain if they moved the AE building out of that zone. Although I suppose that would promote some other zone to the AE hotspot, so I dunno.
I'm not naked right now, and for that I apologize.
Larry: Owen, what the hell did you do to my wife?
Owen: Well I don't want to say on the phone - all I can tell you is that I killed her last night.
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*Put up LFT tag* - no response
*Broadcast in two separate zones LFT* - no response
Team invite one (blind) - level 54 boss farm. *quit*
Team two - stands around for 30minutes and doesn't actually do a mission. *quit*
I broadcast for people to join my team - stating story rather than farm. No response.
Team invite three - leader quits on the first mission
Team four - I'm now the leader of team three. Try to recruit a few more. One guy quits because I'm not running a farm.
I give up and go and play something else.
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This is my experience just about everytime I log in. I'm waiting for the newness of the AE to wear off and things to go back to normal, or Going Rogue, or for CO to come out. As is I can't stand this game anymore. Makes me sad really.
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So far today:
*Put up LFT tag* - no response
*Broadcast in two separate zones LFT* - no response
Team invite one (blind) - level 54 boss farm. *quit*
Team two - stands around for 30minutes and doesn't actually do a mission. *quit*
I broadcast for people to join my team - stating story rather than farm. No response.
Team invite three - leader quits on the first mission
Team four - I'm now the leader of team three. Try to recruit a few more. One guy quits because I'm not running a farm.
I give up and go and play something else.
Unfortunately LordX is right. You can't restrict it to vets or over a certain level now. Which is a real shame. It should have been a separate level-restricted zone.
It has ruined teaming in this game. It's ok to say teach people but they have to want to learn. All everyone wants to do in AE is farm. They don't even *consider* some of those story arcs are a) good and b) decent XP. No unless you start a map of purple bosses no one wants to know.
What's the point of an MMO where the devs make it harder to find a team.
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I find this odd I play on one of the lower population servers in Pinnacle. I play mainly non peak hours like 9pm CST and later is my biggest play time sessions sometimes sneak in early or some longer play times on weekends. In the last few weeks where I been on ling enough to team I gotten one and they where non AE teams ran threw 3-4 missions including a safeguard mission on a lvl 33 Blaster just 3 days ago.
In fact since AE I been able to play on more teams than before but what do I know.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
It's funny cause when I do manage to form a little team now, all the other people on my team are all saying the same thing. They can never find teams anymore and they hate AE.
A few possible fixes to these issues:
1. Require a player to have a level 50 before he is allowed to do anything with the AE. This ensures they appreciate the difficulty of reaching a 50 and expierence some of the great content.
2. Make the required level 25 to enter the AE building. Thus forcing players to play a bit more before they get pled.
3. Make it so you only earn expierence for up to 25 levels in the ae. (NO idea how they would be able to track and do this) Examples: You ae it from level 1 to 25. But then you wouldn't earn any more xp from doing the ae just influence and prestige. You decide to do the ae thing at lvl 20 you can get all the way up to level 45 but then the last 5 you have to earn it the old fashioned way.
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By the way Farming sounds very negative and conjurs up sterotypes of what it is.
I refer to it as Training. And in the AE you are training your Hero or Villian to fight in the real missions. There is a significant amount of content you can expierence thru flash back so I see no problem in people that have allready done the traditional expierence of leveling up to 50 taking the most efficent route. But I understand and see how it is ruining the game in a few areas. There have always been farms before the AE they just were not as efficent, but still good enough to consider it "Farming". For all those people complaining about not being able to find a team, try joining an sg that teams togather. I know the Sg I belong to team up everyday at various times to do tf's and other random missions not in the ae.
You can't stop people from from farming, you just can't. If they deleted the entire AE system today, folks would just go back to Grandville and Peregrine. It's not the farming that is the issue. The problem is the AE has made it so easy to farm and PL that anyone can do it. You don't even have to make your way to a lvl 50 zone or pay anyone to PL you. There is really nothing that can be done that players won't find a way around. It's just sad that the majority of players are content farming day afetr day and don't actually care about playing the game and experiencing the CoX world.
Dear Forcewrath,
I'm sorry you're having such a poor experience. To a degree I understand your problem. But changing the way the AE works isn't going to fix it.
There's a lot of anecdotal evidence on the boards that states "No one will play with me, people only want to farm."
I don't have these problems (I don't farm, not for "moral" reasons, but rather because I find it boring.)
But I rarely have trouble finding a group.
Why? Because I have friends and I belong to a supergroup.
Your RL friends may have left for their own reasons, but there are still lots of players here. There are still lots of players that will team with you and play story missions in the AE or even the regular dev content.
We have an entire forum just for supergroup recruitment.
Maybe you should jump in there and see if you can find any SG's with philosophies similar to yours.
I assure you that there are people who will play this game with you the way you want to play it.
It'll just take a little effort to find them.
But once you do, won't that be nice?
The AE farm groups will die down in a little bit. They'll always be there, but as those players get bored and move on, the rest of us will still be here, ready and willing to group with you.
Take a look at the SG forum, you'll find something. If you don't, maybe ask yourself why that is.
Peace.
Good advice Lexx. I think I might need to do that that myself.
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Good advice Lexx. I think I might need to do that that myself.
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Anyone whining about not being able to team that has not done what Lexx76 stated needs to stop, do what he says and then be happy again. 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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A few possible fixes to these issues:
1. Require a player to have a level 50 before he is allowed to do anything with the AE. This ensures they appreciate the difficulty of reaching a 50 and expierence some of the great content.
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This would've been a great idea had they implemented it that way. There's no way they could do it now; revoking MA access from hundreds of accounts? Talk about doom...
OTOH, wouldn't that just be another incentive to PL?
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(I'm sure that a lot of people will not agree with me on this topic, but this is my opinion about it.)
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I do not agree that it has ruined the game and I don't agree that the AE should be for level 50's only, but I do agree with everything else.
They AE has the potential to pole vault this game far beyond what any other MMORPG is capable of. I think that the true core audience of this super MMORPG can make the AE sing the song it was intended to sign with a glorious sound.
That sound is being drowned out by the clanking of gears on the insides of mechanized farms that have nothing to do with a MMORPG -- for they are nothing more harvesting machines and power-leveling tools.
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfHlA3fmJG0 ]
The difference should be clear.
Either use the AE as a tool to creatively build and experience
- or -
You can become a slave of the machine.
btw, Farmers, welcome to the Machine.
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I have been playing CoH/CoV for well over 4 years now and have seen a lot of changes to the game, the zones and the missions. Though I peruse the forums, I have never really posted anything here - until now...
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I wish you would have posted before.
I didn't join the forums as soon as I started playing, and I certainly didn't start to contribute to the forums until I was miffed enough to do so either.
They say that we that post at the forums are a minority and that we don't have much impact, but I don't see that being the case regards to the impact that forumites have on the game - our City. We are the City's citizens - we are the population.
We need your help to keep this a super game.
Please post about the things that you feel are important, but remember to use your search-fu first. Many of the "new" threads that pop-up have come up multiple times already.
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IMO, The AE system as it currently is, has wrecked this game for me. The AE has made more players who have no clue about how to use their characters powers and has made more people more concerned about PL'ing than about actually playing the game. For new players, the fact that the only team that they can find is an AE team in Atlas further exacerbates this problem - this is only teaching the new players that CoH is only about doing AE missions and PL'ing. It is virtually impossible to get a normal mission team nowadays at any level.
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Take a moment to breath.
There are "normal" teams running, and not all of the AE content is farms.
If you can't find a team, start one. If you can't find enough players in your level range try switching characters (levels) and/or servers. Don't forget that the [Help] channel is accessible by using /hc [message]. If you call out that you are looking for a "normal" mission team on the [Help] channel you may get people willing to team with you.
If you remember, the [Help] channel tends to be watched by friendly, helpful players that like the game. A lot of this group of people like the game because it is an super MMORPG and not because it can be farmed or abused to PL characters.
If I player feeds you any garbage, simply state that you need "help" finding a non-AE team and isn't this the [Help] channel?
I know that I would be willing to accept a sk or switch characters to run "normal" content with you.
I'm on all the servers - on both sides of all of them.
If you are on Freedom, it seems time to jump ship. But I haven't been over there lately because all the farm broadcasts set me off and I don't have enough room in my ignore list to keep all these freaking farmers ignored.
(thankful, they can be 1 starred so I can punish them by not teaming with them if they suddenly decide they want to play normal content. Harsh, but they deserve more punishment than they are getting from the DEVS IMHO.
Once you 1 star a farmer, make sure that your options are set to show stars so that one star hanging over there head lets you know what kind of scum they are as soon as you see them.
It is unfortunate that the DEVs still have not added the "star" system to the search menu.)
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The AE system is ridiculous. IMO, the AE buildings should be moved out of the lower level zones and should be for level 50 players ONLY.
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Here is my idea. It keeps an MA in the lower zones and usable by all level characters, but restricts characters that are above a zone's level spread from using it.
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthre...ue#Post13595973
I've also pointed out that putting the "main" AE training contact in the lower zones was done with out any fore-thought of what it could cause. Obviously, it immediately lured higher level characters to the lowest level zones for training and, well, I'm sure you can see how the dominoes of abuse logic start falling rapidly at that point...
Very well put, Lex.
Finding teams is fairly easy. It only requires some minimal effort on the part of the player.
* Make friends in-game. Use the global friend function.
* Join an active SG. Use the forum section here for your server to find one, if you have trouble in the game.
* Use your server global channels. Again, look in the forum section here for your server. There should be a stickied thread listing your server's global channels.
Simply by doing the above, I have zero problems finding teams. Whether it is for AE, regular content, badging, Task Forces, it does not matter, the teams are there.
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The existence of other players is not to be your teammate. Why should other players change their playstyle to fit your needs, when you're the one that wants to team with them.
If some paying customers in CoH want to PL, AE farm, and be noobs, then that's what they're paying to do. They're not paying to please you. What you're suggesting is to restrict the enjoyment of other players to increase your own enjoyment.
Perhaps, you should be the one to adapt to doing more AE farms, if you want to team with others.
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Actually, I agree with you on this. However, I DON'T want to team with people who "want to PL, AE farm, and be noobs", I want to team with people who actually know how to use their characters powers and know how to play the game as a team. You are also right in that they DO have a right to play that way they want to. I don't expect them to change to my way of playing.
But lowering the bar to let more people in doesn't necessarily mean that better quality people will enter. In fact, it means the opposite. My point is that the AE system, as it currently stands, has seriously lowered the bar.
I see no reason at all to "change my playstyle to fit the others needs" per your original statement. As stated earlier, I already decided to move on to something else, so this is all probably a moot point.