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One, the question was on the one specific power, that was why I mentioned taking it out of the set, and commented on not really being overpowered.
Two, SS in not fully balanced on rage. SS has a quick recharge power as it's first power, and lacks a third tier attack on a 10-12 second timer. Other sets with a 2-3 second at the start tend to have more quick recharging attacks to build an attack chain sooner. Really looking at the numbers SS actually does fall in line with most brute attack formulas before Rage, which makes me think rage is overpowered before double stacking.
Three Footstomp is overpowered, it doesn't follow the aoe attack formula. It's radius is out of proportion.
I also disagree that it is fine as is. Rage needs to lose the -defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
The bottom line is, WITH rage, SS does damage on par with other top sets like SM and EM, which has been shown in several calculations by many posters on these boards. In fact at the top end, even with rage, it does less damage than sets like stone melee. Without rage, SS would be a bottom feeder in regards to damage dealing ability. So clearly, SS was in fact balanced with rage in mind, or maybe the devs just got really, really lucky.
And I do not agree that footstomp is 'too good'. Again, it's SS's only aoe power and only real dmg mitigation, and it's the set's teir nine power - it should be very good and it is. And the idea that it doesn't follow some inconsistent 'formula' and that makes it 'too powerful' is nonsense. They put in a static 'formula' in pvp, how'd that work out?
Could SS be redone and rebalanced? Sure. But why, lol? SS is a set the vast majority of players are very happy with, outside the kiddies using competing sets who have some kind of bizarre set envy, lol. As I've said, the devs would be wise to focus their time and effort fixing the things that are not liked by players rather than messing with things that most of the players like. Or they can keep listening to the nerf monkeys and keep running off customers. If the devs are really worried about SS with all the problems and underplayed powersets in this game, then COH is headed in the wrong direction.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I'm not disagreeing with you, this line of thinking holds no water with the powers that be.
I think they have moved away from balancing sets "as a whole" (for damage dealing sets) and have moved much more toward a power by power standardization/balancing system.
Everyone knows when SS gets "adjusted" it is going to come with a lot of dev hate. It might be the most popular set in the game! That's why I say Castle will hide it in the patches that follow shortly after Going Rogue.
*by hide I don't mean stealth nerf I mean distract with one hand (GR) while you pull your trick with the other (nerf SS).
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with your analysis. They are trying to impliment some kind of static formula, and we've seen an extreme version of that in pvp, and the results were a bit less than well received by their customers (though they do seem oblivious to that fact... lol).
But the bottom line is, it's a really bad idea to mess with stuff that's really popular unless it's clearly 'game-breaking', and FS and rage are not game-breakers.
Just turn Rage into a toggle. :P
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If you really 'love ss', then you shouldn't be asking for changes. Are you new, lol? The last time the devs tried to 'fix' rage, they added a -recovery that made the crash flat out deadly, so deadly in fact, that the devs, who rarely ever reverse a move, reversed the move, lol.
[/ QUOTE ]The change never made it to live. It was on test. They tested it. And shock and horror, after testing, they decided not to do it. Not quite the same scenario you outline, which I know is kinda bad because it makes your point a bit weaker, but still.
On the other hand, constantly repeating 'the set is weak' doesn't make it true. The set is out of whack, yes - KoB and Foot stomp and Rage all behave differently to what they look like they should - but to act like the set needs to be so ridiculously powerful because otherwise it would be feeble and weak is disingenuous.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, how exactly did you get 'the set is weak' from me saying the set is 'fine as is'?
And there was nothing inaccurate about what I said regarding the minus recovery to rage change they tried out. It was so over the top that they reversed themselves on it, completely. I remember arguing that would be the case (that the nerf to rage would gimp the power and set) before they even tested it, and having many posters come in and claim it would be fine and not cripple the power or the set...
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re: Footstomp should be left alone "as the only AoE"
Check the other sets that are being talked about. Stone Melee? One AoE. Energy Melee? One, and it's also the only AoE mitigation, with a low percentage at that. Dark Melee has 3 AoEs - one is a small melee cone and the other two have a 2- and 3-minute recharge.
And as pointed out above, just because you choose not to use the AoE mitigation power in SS doesn't mean it doesn't have one, and by saying that it doesn't you're simply whining over nothing.
Do I think Footstomp really needs to be changed? No. But your case for leaving it alone is extremely weak and ignorant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Stone melee only has one aoe power? Looks like I'm not the only one who forgets about additional aoe powers. And yeah, I did forget about handclap, like most players who completely ignore the power because it's so pitiful.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're only counting AoE damage powers, yes. I was conceding the point that SS only has one AoE damage power, but also saying that it makes a pathetic excuse as to why it should be left alone, and pointing out other sets with similar issues.
And yes, I have played Dark Melee recently. It's AoE potential is still crap, which is what you were talking about. How nice of you to change subjects when the facts don't support any of the garbage coming out of your mouth.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
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re: Footstomp should be left alone "as the only AoE"
Check the other sets that are being talked about. Stone Melee? One AoE. Energy Melee? One, and it's also the only AoE mitigation, with a low percentage at that. Dark Melee has 3 AoEs - one is a small melee cone and the other two have a 2- and 3-minute recharge.
And as pointed out above, just because you choose not to use the AoE mitigation power in SS doesn't mean it doesn't have one, and by saying that it doesn't you're simply whining over nothing.
Do I think Footstomp really needs to be changed? No. But your case for leaving it alone is extremely weak and ignorant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Stone melee only has one aoe power? Looks like I'm not the only one who forgets about additional aoe powers. And yeah, I did forget about handclap, like most players who completely ignore the power because it's so pitiful.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're only counting AoE damage powers, yes. I was conceding the point that SS only has one AoE damage power, but also saying that it makes a pathetic excuse as to why it should be left alone, and pointing out other sets with similar issues.
And yes, I have played Dark Melee recently. It's AoE potential is still crap, which is what you were talking about. How nice of you to change subjects when the facts don't support any of the garbage coming out of your mouth.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, sounds like somebody needs a hug.
The post you were referring to, mine, was talking about aoe powers, and part of the discussion was damage mitigation through such powers, so clearly the discussion was not just about damage dealing aoe's. No subject change on my part.
And pointing out that SS has only one viable aoe power, for both damage and mitigation is definitely a strong point to consider when talking about nerfing said power, as it would have a far more damaging affect on the set than if you nerfed say one of electrical melee's many aoe powers. And again, the fact that it is the only good aoe power in the set, and the fact it comes last as a tier nine power, further justifies the FS's strength, and further explains why other competing sets do not have a singular aoe power that is as good, because they get several aoe powers, many of which are available much earlier than FS is for SS. (And again, I would exclude EM from the discussion because after [censored] ET, EM's pitiful aoe output is no longer justifiable by any reasonable person)
And in talking about DM, if you still think DM has poor aoe ability after the range increase, then you just need some practice with shadow maul. And no, you won't hit as many baddies with it as you will with FS, but it does have some pretty nice advantages like recharging every 8 seconds instead of 20, doing some lightly resisted negative energy damage, AND BEING AVAILABLE AT LEVEL 2 RATHER THAN LEVEL 32. And on a decent sized team, properly using soul drain, you'll be doing better single target damage too, with most of it lightly resisted negative energy. Plus you get a great heal that does insane damage as well, a fear, and an endurance recovery power. SS gets a soul drain like power with a crash, smashing damage, and footstomp at level 32. No end recovery, no heal, no 'tool' powers - so after level 32 SS had better be doing better aoe damage/mitigation than DM - but if you nerf footstomp, what exactly does SS have on DM? Not much if anything imo.
<.<
>.>
doom?
most recent 50 - psy/mm blaster
[ QUOTE ]
No end recovery, no heal, no 'tool' powers - so after level 32 SS had better be doing better aoe damage/mitigation than DM - but if you nerf footstomp, what exactly does SS have on DM? Not much if anything imo.
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You're one of those people that lolhandclap aren't you?
People knock HC alot around here but that power offers ALOT of mitigation. Take off your blinders.
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With high recharge builds DB will blow SS out of the water still. At least vs single targets. Double rage means double crash. Over time it kills your DPS.
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From the "high recharge" link in my sig where BillZ used the chains provided (note: procs not included):<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Brute Dark w/ 10 222.7 4.53 EPS
Scrap Dark w/ 10 222 4 EPS
Brute Stone 218 5.2 EPS
Brute Fiery 213.2 3.83 EPS
Brute Strength 212.6 4.59 EPS
Brute Energy 207.4 3.84 EPS
Brute Warmace 203.4 4.71 EPS
Brute Dark w/ 3 201.7 4.53 EPS
Brute Dark w/ 1 194.7 4.53 EPS
Scrap Fiery 190.3 3.48 EPS
Brute Battleaxe 187.2 4.34 EPS
Scrap Dark w/ 3 181 4 EPS
Scrap Dual Blades 169.7 4.42 EPS
Scrap Dark w/ 1 169.3 4 EPS
Brute Electric 169 4.69 EPS
Brute Dual Blades 168.3 4.42 EPS</pre><hr />
At extremely high recharge, Electric Melee outdoes Dual Blades.
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lol dual blades, at least you get camspin during thousand cuts!!!
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Should have been more clear. High is a little low for DB to start doing great single target damage. More like extreeme recharge. Like this for example. Chain of Blinding Feint, Alabating strike, Sweeping Strike, Alabating strike. Somewhere around 228 DPS
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />
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No end recovery, no heal, no 'tool' powers - so after level 32 SS had better be doing better aoe damage/mitigation than DM - but if you nerf footstomp, what exactly does SS have on DM? Not much if anything imo.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're one of those people that lolhandclap aren't you?
People knock HC alot around here but that power offers ALOT of mitigation. Take off your blinders.
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Depends on what its paired with. Pair it with WP and the knockback works against RTTC. Footstomp is much better because it lets you heal up off the critters.
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No end recovery, no heal, no 'tool' powers - so after level 32 SS had better be doing better aoe damage/mitigation than DM - but if you nerf footstomp, what exactly does SS have on DM? Not much if anything imo.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're one of those people that lolhandclap aren't you?
People knock HC alot around here but that power offers ALOT of mitigation. Take off your blinders.
[/ QUOTE ]
I Lolhandclap. Doesn't do any damage, so I don't take it. Just my personal preference.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
Yea handclap sucks. If you need a mitigation power that does no damage you may want to rethink your slotting of your secondary.
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Should have been more clear. High is a little low for DB to start doing great single target damage. More like extreeme recharge. Like this for example. Chain of Blinding Feint, Alabating strike, Sweeping Strike, Alabating strike. Somewhere around 228 DPS
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That was the exact chain used in the thread - "high recharge" means that up to 250% in each power was allowed. Were you factoring in the server ticks in your damage figure, and/or were you using procs to get the extra boost?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
I will scream if the rage fix is to give it a recharge rate like Instant Healing has for regens >.<
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
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No end recovery, no heal, no 'tool' powers - so after level 32 SS had better be doing better aoe damage/mitigation than DM - but if you nerf footstomp, what exactly does SS have on DM? Not much if anything imo.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're one of those people that lolhandclap aren't you?
People knock HC alot around here but that power offers ALOT of mitigation. Take off your blinders.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it wasn't knockback it would be a decent power. As it is, it does no damage and scatters everything. Use it regularly on an average team and see how popular you are, lol.
And yes, I'm one of those people, because the power blows in most cases.
use elec fence first.
the cherry coke of hold powers.
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Should have been more clear. High is a little low for DB to start doing great single target damage. More like extreeme recharge. Like this for example. Chain of Blinding Feint, Alabating strike, Sweeping Strike, Alabating strike. Somewhere around 228 DPS
[/ QUOTE ]
That was the exact chain used in the thread - "high recharge" means that up to 250% in each power was allowed. Were you factoring in the server ticks in your damage figure, and/or were you using procs to get the extra boost?
[/ QUOTE ]
Procs and the occasional -resist from procs. The ones that are not really an option for SS except for Footstomp. +Recharge is a better one for that though.
And that chain needs more than 250%. That build is +206.3 global plus the slotting. Sadly the damage is higher on scrappers due to the +damage stacking of BF and crit potential.
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Yea handclap sucks. If you need a mitigation power that does no damage you may want to rethink your slotting of your secondary.
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Do you say the same thing to people who take Fault from SM?
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Depends on what its paired with. Pair it with WP and the knockback works against RTTC. Footstomp is much better because it lets you heal up off the critters.
[/ QUOTE ]
We all know FS > HC. I didn't suggest otherwise.
HC is a great power for mitigation. Those that have a problem with the power are the efficiency experts who strive for max exp/min or who solo.
For a fun, themed build, HC is great and the mitigation is phenomenal.
However, the power needs to be revised by lowering the endurance cost and recharge time.
Castle JUST made adjustments to Rage like 2 issues ago. I really doubt he already wants to revisit super strength. If it wasn't over powered two issues ago when he tweaked it, I doubt it is over powered now. Only thing wrong with SS is that punch is not a punch and haymaker is not a haymaker. Other than that it is fine. People just like to farm with it cause of footstomp.
It seems you forget when Castle said he would revisit Rage at a later date. This came about on Test when the first changes to Rage were reverted.
There are balance issues with SS and I know eventually Castle will get around to balancing the set or just Rage. It's only a matter of time.
There are not nerfs to SS, so what did you call?
[ QUOTE ]
There are not nerfs to SS, so what did you call?
[/ QUOTE ]Ghostbusters?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
use elec fence first.
the cherry coke of hold powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
It still does no damage.
And what if you don't have that particular patron. Or if your like me and have no patron?
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
[ QUOTE ]
re: Footstomp should be left alone "as the only AoE"
Check the other sets that are being talked about. Stone Melee? One AoE. Energy Melee? One, and it's also the only AoE mitigation, with a low percentage at that. Dark Melee has 3 AoEs - one is a small melee cone and the other two have a 2- and 3-minute recharge.
And as pointed out above, just because you choose not to use the AoE mitigation power in SS doesn't mean it doesn't have one, and by saying that it doesn't you're simply whining over nothing.
Do I think Footstomp really needs to be changed? No. But your case for leaving it alone is extremely weak and ignorant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Stone melee only has one aoe power? Looks like I'm not the only one who forgets about additional aoe powers. And yeah, I did forget about handclap, like most players who completely ignore the power because it's so pitiful.
So in summation, SS's FS is balanced by the lame that is HC, which puts it on par aoe-wise with SM, imo. Pretty much every other set has more than two aoe powers, with the lone exception being EM. And you bring up DM like DM is outclassed by SS which is just silly if you've played DM at all after the recent buffs. So again, the idea that FS needs to be nerfed doesn't mesh with the facts.
In regards to EM, I've stated many times that after the devs gutted ET they should have buffed it's aoe capabilities, because the set as is, is a clunky, slow as molasses mess with pitiful aoe abilities. Hey, there's a set that could use some dev attention...