GM Soloing

Are there any other powersets, besides /Rad and /Traps, that can solo GMs?

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A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

I know a Team/Team can take one down pretty well.

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@Mechaniker
Official Old Angry German Guy of CoV.
My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787

I consistently solo Paladin and Babbage with my fire/kin troller. Those two were very easy as they lack any kind of stuns and anything above that has been a stalemate for her so far. Haven't hit 50 or put much into her slotting though.

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I think a heavily IO'd dark/shield with fully saturated AoO and Soul drain SHOULD be able to do it. I've never heard of one actually pulling it off though.

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I think a heavily IO'd dark/shield with fully saturated AoO and Soul drain SHOULD be able to do it. I've never heard of one actually pulling it off though.

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AFAIK, the damage it puts out is incredible, but the regen of GMs is just too high to be outdone. GMs regenerate on the order of 350 hp sec. A twinked out, fully saturated DM/Shield can put out ~300 dps.

The primary reason that some specialized controllers and defenders can defeat them is the comparative potency and dps contribution of -regen debuffs. Lingering Radiation will do an absurd amount of functional dps, especially since, iirc, GMs lack the incredible debuff resistance of Archvillains, though they do gain some benefits from the purple patch thanks to their coding.

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GMs lack the incredible debuff resistance of Archvillains

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Not quite. GMs have the same debuff resistances as an AV of the same level (all GMs have base levels)

Babbage is base level 17, Lusca is base level 25, Jurassik is base level 40 and Kronos Titan is base level 50, just to cite a few examples. They all have the same resistances as an AV of the same level (effectively making the Kronos Titan harder to kill than Lusca for a defender)

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GMs lack the incredible debuff resistance of Archvillains

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Not quite. GMs have the same debuff resistances as an AV of the same level (all GMs have base levels)

Babbage is base level 17, Lusca is base level 25, Jurassik is base level 40 and Kronos Titan is base level 50, just to cite a few examples. They all have the same resistances as an AV of the same level (effectively making the Kronos Titan harder to kill than Lusca for a defender)

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I knew about the levels I just couldn't find anything to support them also having the Archvillain Resistances. It still doesn't matter much because when you're reducing 350 hp/sec by 75% (15% of 500%) that's drastically reducing the dps required to take them out (to 87.5 hp/sec).

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The regeneration figure of 350 hp/sec also isn't a set number. It greatly varies from GM to GM. While they all have the same regeneration rate, they don't all have the same amount of hitpoints (Kronos with his 73k hp would regenerate alot more health per tick than Paladin with his 11k hp)

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The regeneration figure of 350 hp/sec also isn't a set number. It greatly varies from GM to GM. While they all have the same regeneration rate, they don't all have the same amount of hitpoints (Kronos with his 73k hp would regenerate alot more health per tick than Paladin with his 11k hp)

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Pali is also going to be taking a lot less damage per second because he's lower level as well, but that's beside the point. The entire point was that you're pretty much going to need -regen in order to solo a GM because without it you're just not going to overcome their incredible regen.

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The regeneration figure of 350 hp/sec also isn't a set number. It greatly varies from GM to GM. While they all have the same regeneration rate, they don't all have the same amount of hitpoints (Kronos with his 73k hp would regenerate alot more health per tick than Paladin with his 11k hp)

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Pali is also going to be taking a lot less damage per second because he's lower level as well, but that's beside the point. The entire point was that you're pretty much going to need -regen in order to solo a GM because without it you're just not going to overcome their incredible regen.

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Or just have -resistance available to you consistently and in a sufficiently large amount. -Regen is far overrated when it comes to taking down AVs and GMs. My TA/A Defender single-handedly allowed a group to take down the Kronos Titan with just his two -Resistance debuffs, though I only needed to use one of them anyway.

-Regen helps, but -Resist can help even more. Having both is, of course, far better.

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Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage

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Pali is also going to be taking a lot less damage per second because he's lower level as well, but that's beside the point. The entire point was that you're pretty much going to need -regen in order to solo a GM because without it you're just not going to overcome their incredible regen.

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Or just have -resistance available to you consistently and in a sufficiently large amount. -Regen is far overrated when it comes to taking down AVs and GMs. My TA/A Defender single-handedly allowed a group to take down the Kronos Titan with just his two -Resistance debuffs, though I only needed to use one of them anyway.

-Regen helps, but -Resist can help even more. Having both is, of course, far better.

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-Regen is overrated when you've got a team. While you're solo, -regen is going to contribute more than any other effect at your disposal just because you don't have much damage to multiply. Since we're talking about GM Soloing, -regen is probably the most important tool at your disposal (aside from the player, that is).

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-Regen is overrated when you've got a team. While you're solo, -regen is going to contribute more than any other effect at your disposal just because you don't have much damage to multiply. Since we're talking about GM Soloing, -regen is probably the most important tool at your disposal (aside from the player, that is).

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This. "Who can solo a GM?" pretty much boils down to "What powersets combine good -regen, good damage, and enough survivability to not die while applying that -regen and damage?"

I don't believe any Blasters, Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, Dominators, Tanks, or Epic ATs get any significant -regen, so that lets them out. A softcapped Rad Corruptor might pull it off, possibly even a /Kin Corruptor if they can get enough survivability. A Rad Defender might also do it if they can get enough damage... maybe a Rad/Sonic with lots of recharge buffs. /Traps MMs have done it, and I suspect /Poison could too. And of course /Rad and /Kin Controllers can do it... with Illusion/Rad being pretty much the only set proven to be able to solo every single GM in the game.

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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

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Babbage is base level 17, Lusca is base level 25, Jurassik is base level 40 and Kronos Titan is base level 50,

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Minor correction, Babbage is 19, Jurassik is 39.

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I don't believe any Blasters, Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, Dominators, Tanks, or Epic ATs get any significant -regen, so that lets them out.

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Actually, Blasters get Drain Psyche in Mental Manipulation which gives -250% Regen to the target for 30 seconds.

So, something like a Sonic/MM Blaster might have a shot.

You'd probably need a super IO'd build in order to get a decent amount of survivability, though. Or I suppose having a trayful of Lucks might work.

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-Regen is overrated when you've got a team. While you're solo, -regen is going to contribute more than any other effect at your disposal just because you don't have much damage to multiply. Since we're talking about GM Soloing, -regen is probably the most important tool at your disposal (aside from the player, that is).

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Agreed.

If you've got a team of six people averaging ~200 DPS apiece, a 30% DR debuff* increases the total DPS by another 360 - much more than the contribution of adding another person at 200 DPS.

Compare that to laying on 500% regen that's resisted by 85%. If a GM regens 350 HP/sec, that is still going to be the equivalent of 262 DPS - vastly more than the +60DPS you'd get from a 30% DR debuff. Regen debuffs serve the soloer (or the low DPS team) much more than it does a high DPS team. Of course your best off if you can manage both - which Rad Emission and Dark Miasma both can. Lingering Rad has the better best-case uptime with large-scale global recharge buffs, which seems a likely scenario for the typical GM hunter.

* Remember that neither GMs nor AVs explicitly resist DR debuffs any more than any other mob. The math behind DR debuffs mean that a debuff of X% results in +X% total damage dealt after factoring any foe damage resistance. DR debuffs do honor "purple patch" degradation, as do Regen debuffs.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

I dunno, I always looked at it this way:

-Regen decreases HP Regen by a flat percentage.

-Res increases DPS in a multiplicative fashion.

Both have the net effect of lowering the gap between 'Defeat Possible' and 'Undefeatable', albeit in two different ways. Subtract and multiply.

...I really can't explain it too much better then that at the moment.

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you're pretty much going to need -regen in order to solo a GM because without it you're just not going to overcome their incredible regen.

[/ QUOTE ]A few weeks ago Smurphy called me in to help him kill the Grandville Flier. I arrived to help just as the Flier landed at its second stop, and it was nearly dead before it lifted off again, because Smurphy was just about matching the Flier's regen on his Brute, and adding a second damage source knocked it down fast.

If the Flier didn't have such a small window to fight it, and if it stayed in one place, I'd guess Smurphy would've been able to solo it on that character, since he would've been able to take his time and he would've been allowed to keep his Fury.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

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...with Illusion/Rad being pretty much the only set proven to be able to solo every single GM in the game.

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I keep hearing this but never seen any actual proof. I've yet to see an ill/rad who can solo the Kronos Titan or a DE Monster (bonus points if no temps/insps are used)

Not saying it can't be done, just saying I want to see screenies or a video

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...with Illusion/Rad being pretty much the only set proven to be able to solo every single GM in the game.

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I keep hearing this but never seen any actual proof. I've yet to see an ill/rad who can solo the Kronos Titan or a DE Monster (bonus points if no temps/insps are used)

Not saying it can't be done, just saying I want to see screenies or a video

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I tried to solo DE monster (Quarry) on my ill/rad, gave up after 10 minutes. I couldn't produce enough DPS and -regen to even scratch him.

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...with Illusion/Rad being pretty much the only set proven to be able to solo every single GM in the game.

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I keep hearing this but never seen any actual proof. I've yet to see an ill/rad who can solo the Kronos Titan or a DE Monster (bonus points if no temps/insps are used)

Not saying it can't be done, just saying I want to see screenies or a video

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Sadly I don't have video, but I've done both on my Ill/Rad, and she isn't even fully tricked out. No perma-PA, for instance. With no insps/temps, we're talking about a long, boring 30 minute fight, but it is possible.

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you're pretty much going to need -regen in order to solo a GM because without it you're just not going to overcome their incredible regen.

[/ QUOTE ]A few weeks ago Smurphy called me in to help him kill the Grandville Flier. I arrived to help just as the Flier landed at its second stop, and it was nearly dead before it lifted off again, because Smurphy was just about matching the Flier's regen on his Brute, and adding a second damage source knocked it down fast.

If the Flier didn't have such a small window to fight it, and if it stayed in one place, I'd guess Smurphy would've been able to solo it on that character, since he would've been able to take his time and he would've been allowed to keep his Fury.

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Yes, there are some extreme DPS builds that can counteract/overcome a GM's regen without debuffing it.

They're far less common than builds that can solo AVs, though. Much easier to just get a high DPS Corruptor.

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...with Illusion/Rad being pretty much the only set proven to be able to solo every single GM in the game.

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I keep hearing this but never seen any actual proof. I've yet to see an ill/rad who can solo the Kronos Titan or a DE Monster (bonus points if no temps/insps are used)

Not saying it can't be done, just saying I want to see screenies or a video

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I tried to solo DE monster (Quarry) on my ill/rad, gave up after 10 minutes. I couldn't produce enough DPS and -regen to even scratch him.

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That's what I suspected, since I encounter the same problem on my Rad/Sonic defender. If I used a full tray of reds I might be able to get one to half health before running out, and If I used a Shivan then it wouldn't really mean a whole lot.

On the other hand, my Corruptor and Mastermind can both obliterate DE Monsters and every other GM redside (all 3 of them) with no temps/no insps and in a relatively short amount of time (10-15 mins). Can't wait for GR so I can bring them over to blueside and try both Lusca and the Kronos Titan

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I've seen a Rad/Psi do it. A very tricked out build, of course.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

A Grav/Kin controller I know soloed Echoai during the Halloween event. He even posted screenshots. Of course he also used several temp pets but hey, it was a solo player killed GM.

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Pinnacle
Heroes
When in danger, or in doubt; Run in circles, scream and shout.

A scrapper (either Iggy_Kamikaze or Powerforge, I don't recall which) soloed the door mission version of Kronos, with video to prove it.

I feel pretty confident that once I get my ranged defense up to snuff I'll be able to solo a couple of the weaker ones on my Sonic/Devices blaster. Maybe Babbage would be my cut-off point, I can already almost get Kraken with him. I haven't pulled it off yet, because he gets a few too many hits in after I run out of Lucks. I can definitely move his health bar and keep it going down though. Just survival is the only issue I'm encountering thus far.

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