I don't really have a problem with that, but there should be a massive reduction in merits if you're fighting EBs and the entire TF is spawned for 1 person.
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I don't really have a problem with that, but there should be a massive reduction in merits if you're fighting EBs and the entire TF is spawned for 1 person.
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I've seen this suggested before, have suggested it myself, have agreed with it and will continue to do so. As far as I'm concerned, I'm prepared to give up ALL merits for a TF done solo and scaled as described. I'm interested in seeing the content and maybe pretending I were a unique snowflake hero for just a while. If that means I have to give up the true rewards of the encounter, then so be it. People mostly do TFs for the merits these days anyway, and since merits would only drop from classic, forced-teaming TFs, I don't see this having too much of an adverse effect on them.
The rare few occasions I've done TFs, myself, have been either gunning for an unlock, like the Romulus Broadsword, or just looking for some fast experience when the opportunity presents itself. This would not change with an addition like this, as the rewards and the big team experience would still be in the team TFs.
And I'm perfectly fine with keeping the Statesman and Recluse ones team-only.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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But the whole point of a Task Force is to have an epic struggle that requires a group of several heroes in order to overcome the challenge. It's not meant to be soloed.
Perhaps a compromise. Introduce some new content along the lines of the Ouroboros TFs; surely a difficult challenge, but one that can still be soloed for those who desire a harder fight than the regular content, which even at highest difficulty can still be pathetically easy for some toons. I wouldn't do this to the existing TFs though, as it probably wouldn't make sense storywise for those tasks to be undertaken by a single person.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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I don't really have a problem with that, but there should be a massive reduction in merits if you're fighting EBs and the entire TF is spawned for 1 person.
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No problem. Like Samuel said, I'd happily forego any and all merit rewards if it meant I had the chance to experience these particular stories at my own pace.
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And I'm perfectly fine with keeping the Statesman and Recluse ones team-only.
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Perhaps, but wouldn't it be fun though to take on the entire Freedom Phalanx single handed?
Mind you I expect that would be like the final room of Mender Lazarus x 2, with no allies, so even as EBs it would still be far from an easy win.
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I don't really have a problem with that, but there should be a massive reduction in merits if you're fighting EBs and the entire TF is spawned for 1 person.
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No problem. Like Samuel said, I'd happily forego any and all merit rewards if it meant I had the chance to experience these particular stories at my own pace.
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And I'm perfectly fine with keeping the Statesman and Recluse ones team-only.
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Perhaps, but wouldn't it be fun though to take on the entire Freedom Phalanx single handed?
Mind you I expect that would be like the final room of Mender Lazarus x 2, with no allies, so even as EBs it would still be far from an easy win.
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I don't see the reasons why reward should be changed for solo vs team: For example, you getting the same reward for 3 men Posi as 8 men posi. Why solo posi should be any different?
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Perhaps a compromise. Introduce some new content along the lines of the Ouroboros TFs; surely a difficult challenge, but one that can still be soloed for those who desire a harder fight than the regular content, which even at highest difficulty can still be pathetically easy for some toons. I wouldn't do this to the existing TFs though, as it probably wouldn't make sense storywise for those tasks to be undertaken by a single person.
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Pretty much all of the Surviving Eight TFs are old and outdated, children of an age when we were still supposed to be gnats who would look for a five-man team just to take down a boss. 1 hero = 3 white minions, remember? The game has moved on from that, however, and our heroes are not taking out things much worse than that. At the same time a full team of heroes are struggling to just about barely take out the Clockwork King, a single hero is laughing in the face of Dr. Vahzilok. At the same time people are just getting to grips with the Sky Raiders and the overpowered Colonel Virgil Duray, people in Faultline are defeating Captain Castillo. And long before people are having to gather a team to challenge Nosferatu, people are beating up Nosferatu, Brukholder, Vandal, Maestro and Requiem solo.
I'd say let scaling difficulty take care of the "epic struggle" and let people lower their difficulty and try the TF alone. After all, what's so epic about a TF that doesn't even have an AV in it like Positron? Yet it will still not let you start it alone. What's so epic about beating up Countess Crey's fat bodyguard that requires seven people when I can take care of the countess herself just a few levels later? The only reason the TFs, especially the OLD TFs, are hard is because they've been artificially bumped up in difficulty.
I'm of the opinion that if any TF is doable by a single player if allowed to scale down, then that TF should be allowed to be done by a single player at the cost of forfeiting all TF rewards. Obviously, not all will be doable solo. I struggle to imagine how a single player could defeat Nictus Romulus even as an Elite Boss. At least, a player NOT power-built to solo AVs. Or take out the weakened Hamidon, for that matter.
I really don't see why we can't all get what they like. Those who want epic battles of many heroes squaring off against a greater evil can play the classic form of team TFs while those like me who don't find a group effort to be as interesting as a single hero standing up to a (scaled-down) greater evil can have their own fun. I mean, we added a whole Inventions system just to broaden the game's group appeal, did we not?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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But then a Task Force or Strike Force wouldn't be a Task Force or Strike Force. The whole meaning of those terms is out the window if they are all soloable.
If you want to read the story and whatnot then take the star and lead the TF/SF yourself. You can experience the TF/SF without being solo.
Also, many TF/SFs are soloable as is. You just need help getting them started is all.
Note: I am not against this suggestion. I am just pointing out reasons why they may not ever make this change.
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But then a Task Force or Strike Force wouldn't be a Task Force or Strike Force. The whole meaning of those terms is out the window if they are all soloable.
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So call the soloable versions something else. We've all seen how much most people care about the content anyway, so stripping the phat rewards from a Not Task Force would, I guarantee you, simply ensure that people still do the full-reward Yes Task Force, instead.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'd like to suggest that the regular TFs/SFs be reworked along the lines of the Oro TFs - specifically that instead of AVs you have the option of facing EBs.
Why? Because the core of I15, so far as I can tell, is 2 new high level TFs. I'm not overly excited about that, since although I've enjoyed the TFs I've been on with various characters - Synapse, Moonfire, Katie, the Cap au Diable SF and the ITF - in every case I've only been able to follow the story by reading the Wiki entry after it's over.
The ITF is probably the worst case - I didn't even know that Imperious is supposed to be an ally in one of the missions - as far as I recall the team skipped past him in accordance with the rules of 'speed' TFs. It would be nice to be able to stop and follow the story, drink in the atmosphere. I'm not saying make them easy - I've done the Mender Lazarus SF and that last room is hard, even if they are 'only' EBs.
It works for the Oros - indeed 'A Spider Spins His Web' in particular feels like it was written as a solo TF - especially the second mission where you have to fight Recluse's champions.
AV soloing is, I think, not for everyone. Downscaling the AVs, as is done in every other mission and story arc in the game, would open up the TFs to people who, for one reason or another, seldom experience them.
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BTW, just came to my mind, there are TFs/SFs/Trials that are impossible to solo unless objectives are scaled down as well. These are like: Hess ( click 2 puters at the same time ), Dr. Q (multiple missions with 4 simultaneous clicks), CoT Trial (8 clicks), etc...
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I wouldn't do this to the existing TFs though, as it probably wouldn't make sense storywise for those tasks to be undertaken by a single person.
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I see your point, in theory, but in practise TFs are being done with near total disregard for the story - the ITF being a prime example.
The irony is that some of the TFs have good stories, unique maps and unusual enemies - all of which are things that the content doers are always craving more of - and yet they're frequently done by teams who approach them as nothing more than a quick merit grab.
Technically, a solo friendly task force is a story arc. If the task force is solo friendly, it defeats the purpose of making task force instead of a story arc. I don't object the suggestion, I think it depends on how firm the dev stands on this issue. As for the reward, there is no need to forfeit the reward at the end of a solo task force, maybe a story arc reward merit is fair enough.
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The ITF is probably the worst case - I didn't even know that Imperious is supposed to be an ally in one of the missions - as far as I recall the team skipped past him in accordance with the rules of 'speed' TFs. It would be nice to be able to stop and follow the story, drink in the atmosphere.
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Yeah, this is really bad. I observe such situation as well. There are some people who know a tf inside out so they want to skip everything and just grab the final reward. But there are some people who want to go through a taskforce in some greater detail. In principle, you can lead and organize the tf yourself, and when you recruit, you have to tell people that you're doing a "slow" and scenic ITF, and probably no people gonna join. 
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BTW, just came to my mind, there are TFs/SFs/Trials that are impossible to solo unless objectives are scaled down as well. These are like: Hess ( click 2 puters at the same time ), Dr. Q (multiple missions with 4 simultaneous clicks), CoT Trial (8 clicks), etc...
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Have them scale to group size. If you normally need 8 people in an 8-man team, scale it to 1 per person. Scale Dr. Q's 4 clicks to 1 click per 2 people.
Also, I am for solo TFs/SFs or, rather, TFs/SFs that scale to group size from 1 to 8 players, even if that means scaling the rewards back as well.
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
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Technically, a solo friendly task force is a story arc. If the task force is solo friendly, it defeats the purpose of making task force instead of a story arc.
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I'm going to have to agree with the sentiment here.
Story arcs are designed for a single player with the help of small groups on occasion (for EB/AV situations). Task Forces are, by their definition, designed for a group of players to tackle at once. If you want to solo a Task Force, you should go into it knowing that you're trying to solo something designed for a group.
It's not the fault of the devs that most players are purposefully skipping over the stories just to get to the rewards faster. If you really want to take it slow and fully enjoy the story, get together with some friends who all want to take their time with it. You're not being forced to PuG.
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Technically, a solo friendly task force is a story arc. If the task force is solo friendly, it defeats the purpose of making task force instead of a story arc.
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I'm going to have to agree with the sentiment here.
Story arcs are designed for a single player with the help of small groups on occasion (for EB/AV situations). Task Forces are, by their definition, designed for a group of players to tackle at once. If you want to solo a Task Force, you should go into it knowing that you're trying to solo something designed for a group.
It's not the fault of the devs that most players are purposefully skipping over the stories just to get to the rewards faster. If you really want to take it slow and fully enjoy the story, get together with some friends who all want to take their time with it. You're not being forced to PuG.
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/this.
Sometime after Croatoa came out, there were specifically... the one on pinn was called a "Smell the roses" run. Time was taken, the story shared, oohed and ahhed over.
That and, really, the majority of the content in this game is able to be soloed. A little (very little) team specific content isn't a bad thing. Could they use reviewing and revamping? Sure. Put in a solo "cliffs note" side arc if they want? Fine. But a task force of one isn't a task force. It's a mission.
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I don't see the reasons why reward should be changed for solo vs team: For example, you getting the same reward for 3 men Posi as 8 men posi. Why solo posi should be any different?
[/ QUOTE ] Almost all the the TF have at least one AV in them. By scaling them down to EB level they become significantly easier.
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Technically, a solo friendly task force is a story arc. If the task force is solo friendly, it defeats the purpose of making task force instead of a story arc.
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I'm going to have to agree with the sentiment here.
Story arcs are designed for a single player with the help of small groups on occasion (for EB/AV situations). Task Forces are, by their definition, designed for a group of players to tackle at once. If you want to solo a Task Force, you should go into it knowing that you're trying to solo something designed for a group.
It's not the fault of the devs that most players are purposefully skipping over the stories just to get to the rewards faster. If you really want to take it slow and fully enjoy the story, get together with some friends who all want to take their time with it. You're not being forced to PuG.
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/this.
Sometime after Croatoa came out, there were specifically... the one on pinn was called a "Smell the roses" run. Time was taken, the story shared, oohed and ahhed over.
That and, really, the majority of the content in this game is able to be soloed. A little (very little) team specific content isn't a bad thing. Could they use reviewing and revamping? Sure. Put in a solo "cliffs note" side arc if they want? Fine. But a task force of one isn't a task force. It's a mission.
[/ QUOTE ] FWIW, I agree with Umbral and Memphis_Bill. I like the idea that some content is made for teams. I was just trying to compromise.
I'll have to say...naaa.
TF/SF are suppossed to be team oriented. Not that they can't be done solo. I've only done Positron solo myself.
You want to take time to take in the story, start/find such a group for the TF/SF.
I've run RP TF/SF for all the blue side, and took the time to at least read what we've been given for the redside.
Imperius is met right at the door on the 4th mission of the ITF, I don't know how you couldn't realize he was an ally to you in that mission, even if the team ditches him fast.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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But a task force of one isn't a task force. It's a mission.
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And a task force of 8 isn't a task force. It's a merit run.
I15 has been on Test for what... hours? I took a glance at a couple of threads about it and already there's discussion of how fast it might be possible to do them, and whether or not they'll be a viable alternative to repeating the ITF.
A team of 6 or 8 is the worst way to experience any new story in the game for the first time. From my point of view, if this is all there is to the next issue, then I15 is a non-event, because by the time it goes live the speed run tactics will already be up and running, and that will be the norm.
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I don't see the reasons why reward should be changed for solo vs team: For example, you getting the same reward for 3 men Posi as 8 men posi. Why solo posi should be any different?
[/ QUOTE ] Almost all the the TF have at least one AV in them. By scaling them down to EB level they become significantly easier.
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Even if TF has AV in it, AV will be scaled down to EB in case if only 2-3 players are on TF and all others quit...
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I don't see the reasons why reward should be changed for solo vs team: For example, you getting the same reward for 3 men Posi as 8 men posi. Why solo posi should be any different?
[/ QUOTE ] Almost all the the TF have at least one AV in them. By scaling them down to EB level they become significantly easier.
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Even if TF has AV in it, AV will be scaled down to EB in case if only 2-3 players are on TF and all others quit...
[/ QUOTE ] Why would it scale down because people quit? I was assuming you only get the EB if you start it solo.
My 1st(knee jerk) reaction to this was no!
You may be on to something though. While I don't really think it should be called a TF if you can solo it I'm not entirely opposed to the idea.
The original TFs need to be revamped. Posi is the most repetitive and ultimately boring TF in the game. I've done it on many of my characters merely because I need it for the accolade.
Until the developers get out of the mind set that time=difficulty=merits...we are probably stuck with things the way they are.
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But a task force of one isn't a task force. It's a mission.
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And a task force of 8 isn't a task force. It's a merit run.
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Or it's a group of 8 friends RPing and experiencing the content together, like the folks I generally run with.
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I15 has been on Test for what... hours? I took a glance at a couple of threads about it and already there's discussion of how fast it might be possible to do them, and whether or not they'll be a viable alternative to repeating the ITF.
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What, you mean to say that there are obsessive merit grinders in the game? I am shocked - shocked!
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A team of 6 or 8 strangers is the worst way to experience any new story in the game for the first time.
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Fixed that for you.
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From my point of view, if this is all there is to the next issue, then I15 is a non-event, because by the time it goes live the speed run tactics will already be up and running, and that will be the norm.
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My advice? Find some friends to play with who agree with your pacing. People like that exist, trust me. Don't rely on PUGs to help you experience the story.
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RMT spammers WILL steal your credit card.
I like this idea. First of it does allow you to go at your own pace and play the way YOU want to rather than the way an entire team does. Be that speeding through just to get the badge or grinding it out making every mission a defeat all becasue they want the XP. Solo you can run the TF however you please and don't need to compromise to make the other team members happy. Second it solves one of the ongoing problems we all face .. I want to do this TF but can't find anyone else that wants to do it with me.
Would the TF still award the badge at the end if soloed? I think it should simply because of the time and effort a solo player would put in to accomplish it. The rewards might need to be amended since they are usually based on the difficulty and time involved for whatever sized team is required but I could live with that.. les XP/INF bonus at the end and less merits (hey as already mentioned I'd be happy with no merits if I could solo instead of waiting on 3, 4 or more players to join a team so we can do one).
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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Technically, a solo friendly task force is a story arc. If the task force is solo friendly, it defeats the purpose of making task force instead of a story arc.
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I'm going to have to agree with the sentiment here.
Story arcs are designed for a single player with the help of small groups on occasion (for EB/AV situations). Task Forces are, by their definition, designed for a group of players to tackle at once. If you want to solo a Task Force, you should go into it knowing that you're trying to solo something designed for a group.
It's not the fault of the devs that most players are purposefully skipping over the stories just to get to the rewards faster. If you really want to take it slow and fully enjoy the story, get together with some friends who all want to take their time with it. You're not being forced to PuG.
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/this.
Sometime after Croatoa came out, there were specifically... the one on pinn was called a "Smell the roses" run. Time was taken, the story shared, oohed and ahhed over.
That and, really, the majority of the content in this game is able to be soloed. A little (very little) team specific content isn't a bad thing. Could they use reviewing and revamping? Sure. Put in a solo "cliffs note" side arc if they want? Fine. But a task force of one isn't a task force. It's a mission.
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This.
I'd like to suggest that the regular TFs/SFs be reworked along the lines of the Oro TFs - specifically that instead of AVs you have the option of facing EBs.
Why? Because the core of I15, so far as I can tell, is 2 new high level TFs. I'm not overly excited about that, since although I've enjoyed the TFs I've been on with various characters - Synapse, Moonfire, Katie, the Cap au Diable SF and the ITF - in every case I've only been able to follow the story by reading the Wiki entry after it's over.
The ITF is probably the worst case - I didn't even know that Imperious is supposed to be an ally in one of the missions - as far as I recall the team skipped past him in accordance with the rules of 'speed' TFs. It would be nice to be able to stop and follow the story, drink in the atmosphere. I'm not saying make them easy - I've done the Mender Lazarus SF and that last room is hard, even if they are 'only' EBs.
It works for the Oros - indeed 'A Spider Spins His Web' in particular feels like it was written as a solo TF - especially the second mission where you have to fight Recluse's champions.
AV soloing is, I think, not for everyone. Downscaling the AVs, as is done in every other mission and story arc in the game, would open up the TFs to people who, for one reason or another, seldom experience them.