They are great primaries still. Good AoEs and heavy hitting powers. Just because they aren't discussed as often as other primaries doesn't mean they are worthless. Instead of doing a scan, try a search and you can find all kinds of useful posts.
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WM and BA are great sets, the reason they aren't talked about on this board that much is that they were proliferated over from tanks recently. They are both pretty much similar but WM does more damage, but battle axe has better mitigation IMO.
Wait what?
How does WM do more dmg, BA have better mitigation? Shouldnt that be reversed. Since Clobber got its DPS raised, WM should hold title for both, 
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
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Wait what?
How does WM do more dmg, BA have better mitigation? Shouldnt that be reversed. Since Clobber got its DPS raised, WM should hold title for both,
JJ
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Mace is slightly better in both areas since the above mentioned buff (love castle), and the reason they're not talked about around here is because they're weapons, and redraw hampers Fury. ;]
I personally find my new BA/Shields to be my favorite brute by far. So many enemies popcorning around and so many big, red numbers it's ridiculous. I love it. Can't wait till I can pick up my AOE, that'll be even more fury-filled fun.
I've played Axe/WP to 50 so I'll share my thoughts on the Axe part.
I'll start with the positives. Axe comes with a bunch of AoEs: Pendulum, Cleave, Whirling Axe. Just about everything you do causes knockdown or knockup. Combined with the AoEs, and you have a lot of protection. Juggling enemies is very easy. The raw numbers of the set are also high. Finally, the set, to me, just feels brutish; you're smashing your enemies with a big axe. It's brutal.
The set does have some big drawbacks: lethal only, recharge and endurance cost. Large raw damage numbers on the attacks sounds good until you realize everything is resistant to lethal damage. Axe has some of the most (if not THE most) endurance-heavy attacks. Even with Quick Recovery and Stamina, I can eat through my blue bar. Lengthy recharges also hampers the set, though since a lot of the attacks are quite good, you'll usually have something available to swing. Finally, there's the redraw, which never really bothers me.
I've found Axe to be quite good for a brute who has to function as a tank. Teaming gives you some buffs to help out with the set's shortcomings and all the AoEs and knockdowns will keep hold aggro and keep you alive. But solo, without IOs, can get kinda painful, depending on one's patience to let your Endurance and attacks recharge.
Also, War Mace might do more damage than Axe since its Smashing damage is less resisted than Axe's Lethal, I think.
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I've played Axe/WP to 50 so I'll share my thoughts on the Axe part.
I'll start with the positives. Axe comes with a bunch of AoEs: Pendulum, Cleave, Whirling Axe. Just about everything you do causes knockdown or knockup. Combined with the AoEs, and you have a lot of protection. Juggling enemies is very easy. The raw numbers of the set are also high. Finally, the set, to me, just feels brutish; you're smashing your enemies with a big axe. It's brutal.
The set does have some big drawbacks: lethal only, recharge and endurance cost. Large raw damage numbers on the attacks sounds good until you realize everything is resistant to lethal damage. Axe has some of the most (if not THE most) endurance-heavy attacks. Even with Quick Recovery and Stamina, I can eat through my blue bar. Lengthy recharges also hampers the set, though since a lot of the attacks are quite good, you'll usually have something available to swing. Finally, there's the redraw, which never really bothers me.
I've found Axe to be quite good for a brute who has to function as a tank. Teaming gives you some buffs to help out with the set's shortcomings and all the AoEs and knockdowns will keep hold aggro and keep you alive. But solo, without IOs, can get kinda painful, depending on one's patience to let your Endurance and attacks recharge.
Also, War Mace might do more damage than Axe since its Smashing damage is less resisted than Axe's Lethal, I think.
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I would have to say I absolutely do not agree with the End use you are talking about. I have a lvl 39 Axe/WP only slotted with SO's currently, but I have not a single problem with endurance. I actually don't even carry blues around with me that often. I fight with all my shields on along with sprint and combat jumping. Not a single problem. I have a knockback/down of 67% of the time, it is great when fighting any type of boss.
Just for kicks..and theme I just started a WM/SD Brute and I'm interested to see how that turns out.
My WM/SD brute is about to hit 34 (one more to shield charge
). I have the same endurance issues. I have one end reducer in each attack and am likely going to put another in each of my more often used single target attacks. That being said, I love the way the set works. As Buddahsmash points out, knocking things up or down a majority of the time really helps. I have kind of the evil gladiator thing going on, so that is kind of cool as well. Really want to get those Roman armor pieces though. Either way, I don't think I see many of either type of Brute out there, but seeing that it works well for me, i like it.
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I have a 39 wm/sd and I go through end like crazy, even with one end cost in every attack and armor. I should throw an end cost in the status protection because that thing takes like 10 end or something every time it fires.
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People are leaving out the best part about the sets. With Axe you have the option to wield an ordinary shovel! And with Mace, you can slug your enemies with a baseball bat.
My level 43 WM/SD teamed with another WM/SD recently. It was a good time. I slotted my attacks with cheap sets' pieces (rope a dope, etc) initially, and really endo is not such a big thing. The end/rec IO recipes were meant for young war macers.
At 43, I've done a few farms and find endurance is no problem whatsoever.
More villain than hero these days
How much should I look to spend to get decent, yet cheaper, IO sets for my WM/SD brute? I have never really got into that aspect of the game, but want to. I have about 17 million or so to spend. Also, do people typically buy the receipes and make them themselves or just buy the completed enhancments? Thanks.
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I'll try to answer your questions. In regards to how much I plan to spend - I don't know. I just finished getting my 3rd set of touch of death, and when I get my final piece of Gaussian, then my melee def is capped. I care more about the melee cap than the rest, since we spend so much more time in melee. I KNOW this: I have spent much more than 17 million so far.
In regards to recipes vs purchased enhancements, generic enhancements I purchase, but I tend to make the set IOs. Always keep an eye out for cheap ones too, but that's a rare bird.
More villain than hero these days
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I've played Axe/WP to 50 so I'll share my thoughts on the Axe part.
I'll start with the positives. Axe comes with a bunch of AoEs: Pendulum, Cleave, Whirling Axe. Just about everything you do causes knockdown or knockup. Combined with the AoEs, and you have a lot of protection. Juggling enemies is very easy. The raw numbers of the set are also high. Finally, the set, to me, just feels brutish; you're smashing your enemies with a big axe. It's brutal.
The set does have some big drawbacks: lethal only, recharge and endurance cost. Large raw damage numbers on the attacks sounds good until you realize everything is resistant to lethal damage. Axe has some of the most (if not THE most) endurance-heavy attacks. Even with Quick Recovery and Stamina, I can eat through my blue bar. Lengthy recharges also hampers the set, though since a lot of the attacks are quite good, you'll usually have something available to swing. Finally, there's the redraw, which never really bothers me.
I've found Axe to be quite good for a brute who has to function as a tank. Teaming gives you some buffs to help out with the set's shortcomings and all the AoEs and knockdowns will keep hold aggro and keep you alive. But solo, without IOs, can get kinda painful, depending on one's patience to let your Endurance and attacks recharge.
Also, War Mace might do more damage than Axe since its Smashing damage is less resisted than Axe's Lethal, I think.
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I know what your talking about. My first and only 50 redside is an Ax/WP. A very tankerish feel. With a decent amount of fury your swings do same serious damage. My only complaint is that the set is kinda endurance heavy. I have QR and Stamina and sometimes my blue bar will dip a bit.
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Wait what?
How does WM do more dmg, BA have better mitigation? Shouldnt that be reversed. Since Clobber got its DPS raised, WM should hold title for both,
JJ
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Mace is slightly better in both areas since the above mentioned buff (love castle), and the reason they're not talked about around here is because they're weapons, and redraw hampers Fury. ;]
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redraw is a myth, doesn't exist, the attacks take the same amount of time whether the attack animates the draw or the weapon is already out. that being said, WM is teh awesome sauce.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
Yeah, I had thought that the whole redraw thing had been debunked, as it were. Thanks for clarifying that.
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I love my BA/Elec having a little extra recharge and boundless END are a blessing as is the Lightning field. I agree the lethal resistance can bite. However fighting EB and AV class things really lets you cut loose. Building fury off just my attacks seems slow good thing fury can be build a lot of ways.
Its almost no fun to solo compared to a team and wading into large spawns to more fully use your AOE. Its kind of fun to kill three minions in one shot.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
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Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
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Redraw delay used to be a myth, prior to issue 11 it was almost entirely mythical. The draw time was included in the animation time for all attacks. Recently, in order to reduce animation time and make animation "flow" better, they've removed this in many attacks.
Redraw absolutely affects some sets now, dual blades being an obvious example. Redraw feels like it affects Axe now,
I'll have to run a test this evening timing a chain of attacks with a stopwatch, one chain using Kick and another chain using Swoop to be sure one way or another.
I thought the devs had come out and flatly stated that whether you have your weapon drawn or not, the time from click to execution of a power was the same. Wouldn't that mean re-draw has zero effect?
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They said that--long ago--then tested things and found out that it wasn't true quite 100% of the time. Then came out with new sets and new animations.
It's not always true any more that redraw is meaningless.
So I drew up some attack chains, and took a Mace and Axe brute into the Rikti War Zone and took on some pylons.
For my Axe brute, for example, I fired off Chop, Swoop, Gash, Brawl, Cleave, Brawl, Chop, Swoop, Gash, Brawl, Whirling Axe, Brawl, repeat. Four times. Rant the chain three times to get a fairly consistent result.
Then I ran the same chain, replacing Swoop in all cases with Kick, which has the same animation time.
Did basically the same chain with my Mace brute, swapping Jawbreaker and Kick.
Results? The redraw penalty for Axe and Mace is very real. It adds about 3/4 of a second to the following attack now to pull out the weapon.
The redraw penalty used to be a myth, but no longer. Back Alley Brawler has modified enough animations now in order to make them faster, and flow better, that the draw time is no longer included in each and every animation. And I for one am glad.
WM is fun (I have a 50 WM/SR) but heavy on endo unless you slot right. It has stronger ST than Axe (due to Clobber change) and better AOE (I think, due to Crowd Control's higher dmg).
That said, there are stronger brute sets (Fire, SS, etc.) so that's one reason people don't talk about them as much.
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WM is a LOT of fun. Hitting the target max with crowd control is just so satisfying on large teams. Miniscule recharge too,
Once you get shatter and crowd control, you'll be a wrecking ball with WM. Personally, I'm not a fan of SS due to rage crashes, and SM doesn't have enough AoE dmg for my tastes.
BA/WP is a lot of fun, and very, very tough. I'd recommend it.
So...I'm contemplating rolling up a Brute, partly due to nasty, nasty altitis. I've been curious about two particular powersets, though, because with a quick scan of the boards I don't see them talked about much compared: WM and BA. Are these viable/decent as Brute primaries? I was thinking about using them, but the lack of discussion gives me a feeling that they're not very good..or..something.
Any people who're better at this build business than me care to comment?