[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't Pain Domination made because Empathy didn't fit the villain "theme"? With the new expansion it looks like villain empaths will become a reality. Now again, what was the reason villains didn't get empathy ported over?
Sure pain dom is a fun set, buts its basically a rehashed emp with the powers they really wanted swapped for something else. Now that it seems like villains will get emps, the whole reasoning behind Pain Dom makes no sense at all now.
[/ QUOTE ]
So... you've never heard of Good Doctors becoming mad, evil Doctors?
There is still a question of flavour. Pain Corruptors have "heal" powers as a secondary, not a primary. So their heals will be weaker then Emp Defenders. Also their damage dealing blaster powers are Primary, making them much more powerful and a Defender's. So a Pain Dom Corruptor is more like a blaster who can heal rather then a healer who can blast. I think this distinction will appeal to some players.
Also consider that nothing perfect. The ability to switch sides is not a bad idea just because of Empathy/Pain Domination overlap.
"The one thing that can stop a full team of MasterMinds dead in its tracks... a doorway!" --Frogfather
more like this will rectify a mechanical lack of fort on red side.
[ QUOTE ]
Sure pain dom is a fun set, buts its basically a rehashed emp with the powers they really wanted swapped for something else. Now that it seems like villains will get emps, the whole reasoning behind Pain Dom makes no sense at all now.
[/ QUOTE ]
it's a different set. if a redname said somewhere that it was intended to fill the empathy void redside then they failed at that task miserably.
if they intended to just make a new set and add it to the game then it was a great success.
As a new set with a distinctly different feel, I very much enjoy Pain Domination.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't Pain Domination made because Empathy didn't fit the villain "theme"? With the new expansion it looks like villain empaths will become a reality. Now again, what was the reason villains didn't get empathy ported over?
Sure pain dom is a fun set, buts its basically a rehashed emp with the powers they really wanted swapped for something else. Now that it seems like villains will get emps, the whole reasoning behind Pain Dom makes no sense at all now.
[/ QUOTE ]
So... you've never heard of Good Doctors becoming mad, evil Doctors?
There is still a question of flavour. Pain Corruptors have "heal" powers as a secondary, not a primary. So their heals will be weaker then Emp Defenders. Also their damage dealing blaster powers are Primary, making them much more powerful and a Defender's. So a Pain Dom Corruptor is more like a blaster who can heal rather then a healer who can blast. I think this distinction will appeal to some players.
Also consider that nothing perfect. The ability to switch sides is not a bad idea just because of Empathy/Pain Domination overlap.
[/ QUOTE ]
Never said it was a bad idea, but the reasoning behind Pain Domination was that empaths and villains didnt mix. Now that reasoning has been thrown out the window.
Sure I can see that a doctor could become evil, its one of the reasons why I thought they could port empathy over to CoH instead of pain dom. Im all for new sets, but I would rather have Empathy then Pain Dom if I were given the choice. Up until now that wasn't even and option due to the theme issue. The theme issue they referred to is still there yet it looks like vills will get empathy.
[ QUOTE ]
Now again, what was the reason villains didn't get empathy ported over?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the act of empathizing with someone else's pain is in itself a heroic act. Sure, an Empath can go bad, but they will always be empathizing with those around them, which is inherently heroic.
So, when you think about it, it still makes sense that an Empath would have to start on the good side.
I think they may have resolved the cognitive dissonance of an "Empathic" villain given some of the ways we (players) use the Empathy set.
I mean really, I've seen very few "Psyhic Healers" - mostly it's robot doctors or regular doctors, even a couple 'cleric' type characters. Well and of course the usual horde of "I have no idea what theme this character is supposed to have; they shoot Dark Blasts, have Empathy, are dressed in a bikini and have a big red Cross on their chest(s)".
That is to say - I think the name "Empathy" tripped the devs up; when in reality the set can be used to represent any kind of healing powers. Pain Domination will likewise seem a bit wonky from a naming convention perspective (particularly Enforced Morale) when it comes Hero side - however if you don't let the fluff text trip you up, there's plenty of other ways to represent it.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
Masterminds and Corrupters won't be able to take Empathy even if they turn 'good.' If they want a 'heal secondary' they still need to take Pain Domination.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
D'oh, an excellent point. Unless anything is deliberately proliferated, Empathy will only be available to Defenders and Controllers that have gone Rogue.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now again, what was the reason villains didn't get empathy ported over?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the act of empathizing with someone else's pain is in itself a heroic act. Sure, an Empath can go bad, but they will always be empathizing with those around them, which is inherently heroic.
So, when you think about it, it still makes sense that an Empath would have to start on the good side.
[/ QUOTE ]
It does not make sense. Many villains believe they are good guys you know? Like nazis surely thought of themselve as the good guys during the WW2 back then.
All about perspectives. There is no innate good or innate evil. There are opinions. That's what relativists would claim anyway.
Edit: I think the issue here is that there never should have been a Blue and Red side in the game. Good or evil can be seen in either Paragon City or the Rogue Isles. Never made sense to split and confine ATs to one side or another.
The ATs, they all can do right or wrong. The sum of all your deeds should make you a hero or a villain. But again, doing good does not prevent one to do evil some of the time and vice versa. I always found out the Red/Blue side separation to be very artificial and done by devs for a purely gaming/mechanic purpose.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
It makes sense. An empath is someone who can feel another's emotions. Now imagine an Empath who is completely psychotic? Feeling everyone's pain around them, getting a kick out of it, a rise out of it. So they use their powers of Empathy to twist up their opponent's emotions driving them to the brink of insanity while getting their own allies in the right kind of mindset to promote more misery.
[ QUOTE ]
It does not make sense. Many villains believe they are good guys you know? Like nazis surely thought of themselve as the good guys during the WW2 back then.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Nazis, and the majority of Villains I've seen have the attitude of Might is Right. In other words. I'm powerful enough to take whatever I want.
That very attitude precludes the possibility of empathy.
.
.Driver Sweeper * CohHelper * HijackThis * TweakCoH * CPU-ID
* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It does not make sense. Many villains believe they are good guys you know? Like nazis surely thought of themselve as the good guys during the WW2 back then.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Nazis, and the majority of Villains I've seen have the attitude of Might is Right. In other words. I'm powerful enough to take whatever I want.
That very attitude precludes the possibility of empathy.
[/ QUOTE ]
That may have been the thoughts of hitler himself but I doubt all of his followers felt that way.
[ QUOTE ]
It makes sense. An empath is someone who can feel another's emotions. Now imagine an Empath who is completely psychotic? Feeling everyone's pain around them, getting a kick out of it, a rise out of it. So they use their powers of Empathy to twist up their opponent's emotions driving them to the brink of insanity while getting their own allies in the right kind of mindset to promote more misery.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be Apathy. The complete disregard for the emotions of others in favor of the emotions you yourself feel as a result. IMO, this is what Pain Domination should have been called.
Still, as others have said, these powers and their titles and descriptions are merely placeholders for whatever power you imagine the character actually using. Some people imagine they are using medical techniques. Others might call it the light of heaven. Still others may imagine it is a set of druidic spells.
Either way, I doubt these powersets will be proliferated cross faction, since they are basically the same set when it comes down to it.
[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't Pain Domination made because Empathy didn't fit the villain "theme"? With the new expansion it looks like villain empaths will become a reality. Now again, what was the reason villains didn't get empathy ported over?
[/ QUOTE ]
[satire]
Yeah. The empathy effect-color will be converted from green to a shade of gray and Pain Domination effect-color will be converted from red to a shade of gray as well. That way they won't really clash color-contrast-wise (I have fortunately never run into someone with Pain Domination and Empathy both on the same team and both auto-firing their AoE heals, but you get the idea.)
You know it's very Heroic to use "Pain Domination" on your allies, at least if they are paying you inf and want it used on them intentionally.
[/satire]
The power of Empathy is the ability to sense and manipulate the emotions of other people psionically. Just because you're an empath doesn't make you a good guy. If you decide to use this ability to bring out hate/fear/and sorrow in people then you're using the power of Empathy for evil. It would be hard for an Empath to be evil because being able to feel how others feel could cause themselves pain and by feeling others pain they can understand what causes them to feel this way.
However, it does not make them inherently good either. If the person was clinically insane with power over Empathy they could be a truly frightening individual. With the power of Empathy I can make those around me feel really good about themselves and towards other people. I could help them work through their problems by understanding what they're going through and change negative emotions to more positive ones.
However, if someone hurt the person I love, I could find the person in question and manipulate their motions to feel how I feel. Possibly even push it a few steps further overloading their mind with emotion until they break. The reason I bring up this example is because using the scenario above it's quite possible for an empath to go bad.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It makes sense. An empath is someone who can feel another's emotions. Now imagine an Empath who is completely psychotic? Feeling everyone's pain around them, getting a kick out of it, a rise out of it. So they use their powers of Empathy to twist up their opponent's emotions driving them to the brink of insanity while getting their own allies in the right kind of mindset to promote more misery.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be Apathy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sadism, not apathy. Big, BIG difference.
[ QUOTE ]
It does not make sense. Many villains believe they are good guys you know? Like nazis surely thought of themselve as the good guys during the WW2 back then.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only reason people could or would confuse my mm as 'one of the good guys' is because I spend my time in RWZ. My MM is part of the human circle, if humanity dies he dies as well. Its more an act of self preservation than a moral choice.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
[ QUOTE ]
Sadism, not apathy. Big, BIG difference.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. Take Joker from Batman. If he had power over Empathy..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It does not make sense. Many villains believe they are good guys you know? Like nazis surely thought of themselve as the good guys during the WW2 back then.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Nazis, and the majority of Villains I've seen have the attitude of Might is Right. In other words. I'm powerful enough to take whatever I want.
That very attitude precludes the possibility of empathy.
[/ QUOTE ]
That may have been the thoughts of hitler himself but I doubt all of his followers felt that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
This. Infact I was just watching the History channel about Operation Valkyrie. The same people who planned operation Valkyrie were Hilter's own generals and colonels. They believed that what Hilter was doing was the right thing, but didn't think what he was doing to Jews was an okay thing. Plus it took Hilter years and years to brainwash people into thinking what they were doing was right.
That aside, we only have enough information to speculate. And at this early of a stage major changes could happen, it is quite possible the devs don't even have it all mapped out yet. So until more information is released all we can do it guess.
It could be an alternate universe you go Rouge in. Or it could be an alternate reality. Maybe just certain zones you are allowed to be Rogue in.
[ QUOTE ]
The power of Empathy is the ability to sense and manipulate the emotions of other people psionically.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is complete hooey. The power Empathy and the even the definition of the word "empathy" has nothing to do with the manipulation of emotions.
As for any psionic involvement, please show me even one example that Empathy has anything to do with Psionic powers.
.
.Driver Sweeper * CohHelper * HijackThis * TweakCoH * CPU-ID
* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The power of Empathy is the ability to sense and manipulate the emotions of other people psionically.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is complete hooey. The power Empathy and the even the definition of the word "empathy" has nothing to do with the manipulation of emotions.
As for any psionic involvement, please show me even one example that Empathy has anything to do with Psionic powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
The power Empathy is a Psionic power and is basically an extension of Telepathy, but instead of reading thoughts, you read emotions. The power (as described in various texts and PnP RPGs) is one way only. The Empath feels the target's emotions and does not gain any kind of control over the target. Generally the power of Empathy does not bestow any healing abilities.
Being that in this game the Empath feels his team mates' pain and then heals those wounds, it is inherently a power that only someone who was heroic (not good) would be able to use. A villainous (not evil) character would not use that power in such a way because a villainous character would be more apt to care about himself than others. Hence Pain Domination was created, which allows a Corr or MM to keep his team mates alive for his own sake, not theirs.
Edit: Oh and example; AD&D Second Edition Psionics Handbook, Shadowrun, Darksun: The Prism Pentad collection by Troy Denning, the Dune novels.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The power of Empathy is the ability to sense and manipulate the emotions of other people psionically.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is complete hooey. The power Empathy and the even the definition of the word "empathy" has nothing to do with the manipulation of emotions.
As for any psionic involvement, please show me even one example that Empathy has anything to do with Psionic powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Empathy is psychic in nature. However, I was going by the comic book definition in which heroes with Empathy also have the power to control the emotions of others. You can be Empathic person but there is a psychic ability known as "empathy" in which a person has the ability to read the emotions of others by simply being in their presence. In super hero terms it's not unheard of for certain people to develop their ability further to alter the emotions of others.
This isn't possible in COH but it has been displayed by several characters in Marvel comics and I believe one character in DC. As to the other person who said that they'd only learn to care for others. Not the case. You can feel what someone else feels, you can understand the pain, and at the same time you could end up caring more about yourself.
Also, as I said before, what if an Empath who has developed his abilities further ends up going mad? What if feeling everyone's emotions overwhelms the person's brain driving him/her insane? Then at the same time, the person retaliates by attacking/twisting the emotions of those around him? It is theoretically possible for an Empath to be a villain if the person is able to control the emotions of others.
*Edit* For example, Blackavaar, an extension of Telepathy can lead one to the power of suggestion, an extension of that, mind control. Telepathy isn't far from the power of suggestion which in turn isn't far from the ability to control people mentally.
So many forum arguments would not happen if Empathy were never added to the game.
People wanted a Healing Oriented set Redside [More healing Oriented than Thermal] The Dev's answer to that was Pain domination.
Pain Dom is Empathy with an AoE fort (resistance based instead of Defense), a toggle Healing Aura and a Debuff instead of the Endurance aura.
So no, people didn't get Empathy on Villians, but they got pretty much what they wanted otherwise.
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
Wasn't Pain Domination made because Empathy didn't fit the villain "theme"? With the new expansion it looks like villain empaths will become a reality. Now again, what was the reason villains didn't get empathy ported over?
Sure pain dom is a fun set, buts its basically a rehashed emp with the powers they really wanted swapped for something else. Now that it seems like villains will get emps, the whole reasoning behind Pain Dom makes no sense at all now.
Multimedia Genius Submission