A final, maybe stickieable, word on farming?
By
300_below,
Posted on: 2009-04-27 06:21 in Mission Architect
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Even if it is not a pure code exploit that does not mean it is normal or acceptable that a player in MA can easily have access to several pool C ( Golden Rolls ) for minimal risk/effort while players doing other content in game that is harder or more time-consuming ( TFs ) get less reward. I call that broken.
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I call that life. Seeing as the this is a game and what parts of it you play are entirely up to you its not a problem. People are playing for what they think is fun. Should base editing grant xp and merits ? Its time consuming and difficult to do well ?
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And how is building a base any risky? Yeah right...
And tell me about Katie TF? How come that thing gives crap reward ( not even a pool C recipe ) while farming in AE over less time gives better reward?
Broken. It is broken.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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And tell me about Katie TF? How come that thing gives crap reward ( not even a pool C recipe ) while farming in AE over less time gives better reward?
Broken. It is broken.
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If I were to start on picking broken things in this game I would never know where to stop.
But on risk/reward first there has to be risk in the game. Currently thre isnt.
Sure there is risk...
Lets see, there is the hami.....
<.<
>.>
..and the Hami...
oh wait, I guess i could roll some nonoptimal toon and then everything is challenging...including green mobs.
Challenge is again a function of perception, preferance, and build. What I find challenging or down right impossible to my rad/sonic corruptor, I find a cake walk when on my ss/wp brute. Then my corruptor only has SO level slotting and is built for team play, where my brute is fully decked out with all the bangs and whistles and geared for mass destruction of anything standing before him.
Risk is relative.
Tell ya what, lets rebalance the game so that everyting is risky to my ss/wp brute. where bosses are minions, eb's are lt's, av's are bosses, gm's are EB's, and the Incarnates are just plain ole AV's. That would make me loads happier. I doubt, however, many outside of the powergamers would like such a fiasco. As is evident with the challenging content currently present in the game. Heck I would even be happier with a higher difficulty setting or three on the slider bar.
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And tell me about Katie TF? How come that thing gives crap reward ( not even a pool C recipe ) while farming in AE over less time gives better reward?
Broken. It is broken.
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If I were to start on picking broken things in this game I would never know where to stop.
But on risk/reward first there has to be risk in the game. Currently thre isnt.
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And that's what merits are about. Time vs reward instead of risk vs reward, because there is no risk in this game.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Yeah and I really don't see any problem with custom critters that are more robust than PvE critters giving the "same" xp/inf for the increased risk they offer.
I enjoy the challenge and freshness they bring and despite being a powergamer I never have advocated that they give more reward for the increased risk they offer. Yet, some are adovcating they give less for this increase in risk which seems to lack sound rationale.
It seems reasonable to remove exploits and outliers, but the more rubust CC's are fine as is IMHO.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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And tell me about Katie TF? How come that thing gives crap reward ( not even a pool C recipe ) while farming in AE over less time gives better reward?
Broken. It is broken.
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If I were to start on picking broken things in this game I would never know where to stop.
But on risk/reward first there has to be risk in the game. Currently thre isnt.
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Is too, I bruised my finger last week!!!
No really, what might not be risky to your purped out scrapper is extemely risky to my emp defender. If balance was that easy, there would be balance all over this game and PVP would be accepted by more than the 3 people that like it.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
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And tell me about Katie TF? How come that thing gives crap reward ( not even a pool C recipe ) while farming in AE over less time gives better reward?
Broken. It is broken.
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If I were to start on picking broken things in this game I would never know where to stop.
But on risk/reward first there has to be risk in the game. Currently thre isnt.
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And that's what merits are about. Time vs reward instead of risk vs reward, because there is no risk in this game.
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I Agree! In order to add risk to this game, when a player buys CoH it should also come with a new computer chair that is mandatory to sit in in order to play the game. When your toon dies, the chair should deliver a high voltage shock to the player.
This will add risk to the game 
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And tell me about Katie TF? How come that thing gives crap reward ( not even a pool C recipe ) while farming in AE over less time gives better reward?
Broken. It is broken.
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If I were to start on picking broken things in this game I would never know where to stop.
But on risk/reward first there has to be risk in the game. Currently thre isnt.
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And that's what merits are about. Time vs reward instead of risk vs reward, because there is no risk in this game.
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I Agree! In order to add risk to this game, when a player buys CoH it should also come with a new computer chair that is mandatory to sit in in order to play the game. When your toon dies, the chair should deliver a high voltage shock to the player.
This will add risk to the game
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I find this idea strangely intriguing. Perhaps it will get me tanking more
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What are farmers doing to you again?
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When's the last time you tried to find a good (non-farm) mission that hadn't been posted by someone in the forums?
There have been farmers that have admitted to one-starring non-farm missions just to ensure they don't have 5-star ratings. That means non-farm missions stop showing up in the 5-star range after they get a certain number of votes. If you then go to the 4-star missions the first 3 pages are full of Rikit Doll Missions.
My use of the MA system doesn't impact the ability of farmers to find a play a farmable missions. The action of the farmers, on the other hand, sure as {$@!} impacts MY ability to find a good, non-farm mission.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
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When's the last time you tried to find a good (non-farm) mission that hadn't been posted by someone in the forums?
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This afternoon no problem
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There have been farmers that have admitted to one-starring non-farm missions just to ensure they don't have 5-star ratings. That means non-farm missions stop showing up in the 5-star range after they get a certain number of votes. If you then go to the 4-star missions the first 3 pages are full of Rikit Doll Missions.
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And just how is this different than the Auteurs taking a dump on farm missions ?
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My use of the MA system doesn't impact the ability of farmers to find a play a farmable missions. The action of the farmers, on the other hand, sure as {$@!} impacts MY ability to find a good, non-farm mission
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Try including the word story in your searches
If it makes you feel better, I 3 star farms so they don't appear at the top of the list, unless it's a really good farm. Then I'd give it 5.
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There have been farmers that have admitted to one-starring non-farm missions just to ensure they don't have 5-star ratings
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I quite often 1-3 star normal missions without leaving feedback, but it's because I find them dull and boring, not because they aren't farms. I don't leave feedback because people would probably retaliate against my reasons.
A great arc should be fun to play (ie farmable) with a great story line. This would produce non-stop carnage, and it's what I'm always looking for. It's you who is trying to impact our type of play. As long as your cries of paranoia continue to be ignored, we are fine.
Edit:
Oh and,
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good, non-farm mission
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There's no such thing 
Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does 
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
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Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does
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Umm, reading comprehension class?
There are farmers that have admitted to this, and I have caught missions with 5-star ratings and 100+ votes suddenly getting a large number of votes that pushed it to 4-star.
BTW, I have one arc. It's currently 4-star and never had anything lower than a 3. (And I use a global handle that is different from my forum handle, so I don't have to worry about being rating griefed by forum trolls.)
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
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Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does
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Umm, reading comprehension class?
There are farmers that have admitted to this, and I have caught missions with 5-star ratings and 100+ votes suddenly getting a large number of votes that pushed it to 4-star.
BTW, I have one arc. It's currently 4-star and never had anything lower than a 3. (And I use a global handle that is different from my forum handle, so I don't have to worry about being rating griefed by forum trolls.)
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Feel happy, the flip side of the coin are not only 1 starring missions but reporting them even though it is not against the rules unless an exploit is built into the mission.
As far as finding missions, I recommend asking around, using the forums, my personal method is keeping a list of authors I liked and occasionally checking to see if they had anything new. Once more I ask, if the majority of the playerbase is doing farm runs...SHOULD those missions be towards the top of the mission list to facilitate the majority's needs?
When I look for story driven content I generally find that 6 or 7 out of ten pop up when I use the search function with key words like comedy, story, role play. lowbie, I do not search by star count. I search by arc size mostly. there is one in particular I liked where some one recreated a sewer run. except it was set to villianous and the story was you were running through the sewers looking for a hero sewer team to give them a real challenge. You have to look though you can't search for farm or ticket and try to find one that way for sure.
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Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does
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Umm, reading comprehension class?
There are farmers that have admitted to this, and I have caught missions with 5-star ratings and 100+ votes suddenly getting a large number of votes that pushed it to 4-star.
BTW, I have one arc. It's currently 4-star and never had anything lower than a 3. (And I use a global handle that is different from my forum handle, so I don't have to worry about being rating griefed by forum trolls.)
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and I have seen rp drama queens go looking for farm maps to 1 star and report. What is the difference? And no, you arent worth the time it would take to hunt down your arc.
besides, I didnt even reply to you....touch a sore spot maybe?
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
The sole and complete issue I have with farmers and those who make farm maps, is that they are the cause for having certain enemies, sometimes entire enemy groups, no longer being available in MA because of their abusing them for farming purposes. This directly impacts me as an MA author in that I can no longer use content because of those people.
They effectively have stolen part of the game from me that I used to have access to, but now do not. And yes, I DID have access to it. Since MA's launch, a large number of mobs have been removed from MA and I fear even more coming soon. The attitude of "farming doesn't hurt anyone else" is completely bogus when it comes to the MA. If you farm in this manner, such that it causes the devs to punish us all for your actions, then you ARE harming everyone else. Continuing to deny it will just prove that you don't care if you hurt others or not.
If your actions don't impact me, I don't care what you do, but as soon as I am losing access to parts of the game I once had because of you, well now we have an issue.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does
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Umm, reading comprehension class?
There are farmers that have admitted to this, and I have caught missions with 5-star ratings and 100+ votes suddenly getting a large number of votes that pushed it to 4-star.
BTW, I have one arc. It's currently 4-star and never had anything lower than a 3. (And I use a global handle that is different from my forum handle, so I don't have to worry about being rating griefed by forum trolls.)
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Feel happy, the flip side of the coin are not only 1 starring missions but reporting them even though it is not against the rules unless an exploit is built into the mission.
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Personally, I WON'T report farm missions, because I fear that the dev's actions will ultimately impact us all, as we've seen happen already in the short time since launch. We're already on the slippery slope of entire groups being culled from MA as it is. We don't need to encourage that.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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The sole and complete issue I have with farmers and those who make farm maps, is that they are the cause for having certain enemies, sometimes entire enemy groups, no longer being available in MA because of their abusing them for farming purposes. This directly impacts me as an MA author in that I can no longer use content because of those people.
They effectively have stolen part of the game from me that I used to have access to, but now do not. And yes, I DID have access to it. Since MA's launch, a large number of mobs have been removed from MA and I fear even more coming soon. The attitude of "farming doesn't hurt anyone else" is completely bogus when it comes to the MA. If you farm in this manner, such that it causes the devs to punish us all for your actions, then you ARE harming everyone else. Continuing to deny it will just prove that you don't care if you hurt others or not.
If your actions don't impact me, I don't care what you do, but as soon as I am losing access to parts of the game I once had because of you, well now we have an issue.
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I especially agree with the "farming doesn't hurt anyone else is bogus" statement. It siphons our enemy groups, it siphons possible teammates away from other parts of the game. Farming should be minimized to a choice, as it was before MA. A farm team pre-MA wasn't as freakishly effective as those are now. Some of us like to work hard for XP, but XP nonetheless. Farming is not work, as in the example of the Comm officers. My suggestion: set ALL enemies in MA to the custom critter XP base. If that's possible, that is.
This thread rules.
Anyway, I'm one that enjoys earning my max level... but to those that don't have the time and still want to enjoy the game/PvP...
I think it's a necessity to keep things close to unrestricted.
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The worst part, as far as I'm concerned, is that whenever the Devs squash one of these "strategies", it's the people who were playing the game as intended who get inconvenienced - because they still want to do the content for its own sake, unlike the farmers who jump to the next cheap source of xp, inf, merits, and/or tickets.
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This is something that I cannot prove, but I truly truly believe. It is impossible to stop *any* kind of farmers, whether they are run of the mill ones or exploit-seeking, without having a significant and usually larger negative impact on a much larger number of people who weren't focused on reward rates.
Or in short, anytime the farmers get nerfed, this hurts the non farmer far worse, usually.
Because of this, smart people would I think be better served by calling for the sensible *integration* of farming, not the hopeless *elimination*. If you really want the least negative impacts from farming, then ask the devs to accept and allow it, and simply channel and control it better - with for example a farm tab in AE, a farm broadcast channel, etc.
Working with both RPers and farmers is the best bet to making everyone's life less problematic. The fight between them just leaves bodies on the battlefield - and because farmers are by their nature, the one's usually hurt by the actions taking in a vain attempt to curb them is everyone else.
Food for thought.
For Great Justice!
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The sole and complete issue I have with farmers and those who make farm maps, is that they are the cause for having certain enemies, sometimes entire enemy groups, no longer being available in MA because of their abusing them for farming purposes. This directly impacts me as an MA author in that I can no longer use content because of those people.
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Actually, you are factually wrong here. The farmer have no power to cause the things. The people you want to focus on are the devs who have the power and made the decision to do that action. Perhaps you should make your opinion known to them, that it is pointless to harm the non-farmers just to through a minor and temporary speed bump in the way of the farmers. Or at the very least, that perhaps you think they should find a way to accomplish whatever goal they have in mind without committing the game alteration you didn't like.
But let's be clear about this - the farmers did not, and CAN NOT, change the mechanics of the game. That would be the devs.
For Great Justice!
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This distills the essence of the farm whinefest magnificently. "I don't like it, so why should you be able to do it?"
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As opposed to your side of the argument? "I like it, so any criticism of it is merely "extremist whining"?
The only answers I've ever seen coming from the pro-farming side of the hall is "I pay my $15 a month and can play as I like. Get over it!" Since you ignored my point, let me remind you of it: [u]I PAY TO PLAY THE GAME TOO![u].
Now stop tapdancing and answer the farking question for once: why is your opinion of what is right and good in CoH more important than what I think?
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I especially agree with the "farming doesn't hurt anyone else is bogus" statement. It siphons our enemy groups, it siphons possible teammates away from other parts of the game.
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I don't *think* so, let me see...
Farming doesn't siphon the enemy groups - the devs have done that, not the farmers.
Farming doesn't siphon possible teammates away, unless by that you meant "people should have no option to play except the ways in which I play, so that I will always have people to play with."
The only way Farming impacts teaming is that it gives players a choice to do something besides teaming with *you*. If *that's* what you have a problem with, then simply asks the devs to force people to play with you. Same thing.
For Great Justice!
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In terms of the little known exploit regarding spawn sizes. I think its probably a good idea to remove it. The idea of one person getting the amount of lewt they can from using this exploit is abusive and this is from a devout powergamer.
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That should be made an optional slider.