I understand your frustration. I've run into arcs in which AVs which could solo Statesman without breaking a sweat are dropped like candy. My response has become informing the person that I am unable to solo the arc, and not give a rating.
But it is not reasonable to expect that, after being live for almost 2 weeks, players will be creating the same quality of missions as the mission writing team (people with years of experience doing this) has.
I am finding that creating a good, challenging, custom group is a *huge* balancing act.
A large number of Pencil-and-Paper GMs think the goal is to kill the player characters as quickly and certainly as possible. Fortunately, some of them realize that the real goal is to provide an interesting and enjoyable game, where the players have a reasonably high chance of success, but not an absolute guarantee.
It looks like the same thing is happening here.
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I understand your frustration. I've run into arcs in which AVs which could solo Statesman without breaking a sweat are dropped like candy. My response has become informing the person that I am unable to solo the arc, and not give a rating.
But it is not reasonable to expect that, after being live for almost 2 weeks, players will be creating the same quality of missions as the mission writing team (people with years of experience doing this) has.
I am finding that creating a good, challenging, custom group is a *huge* balancing act.
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Umm maybe my point was kinda missed, i probly was a little ranting..
. People that wanna make custom mobs/bosses, or even people that just want one boss for one mission should be going easier not harder.. 90% of the stuff out there is in test mode. Do you want all your testers to be frusterated and give up after one mission cause you cant even do it on heroic?
Sorry cant comment on your story or anything else cause i cant make it past the front door. Im finding this constantly on custom mA arcs.
Its sorta like dont stick kill alls on large maps, or heck large maps in general can be torcher to find that last hidden npc, or some glowy tucked into a corner that noone ever goes. Make it easier for people complete, espeically on heroic. Get solid feed back, not the standard, well i couldnt get past the first boss, or i died 5 times on the first mob before i gave up.
I'm with you on this. Bosses of Death don't interest me in the least. It's not a challenge to die, run to the hospital, buy a ton of purples, and come back. It's just annoying, and it doesn't do much for the story.
I write the kind of missions I want to play. I assume that everybody does. The thing is, crafting a decent, well-balanced mission takes time, and slinging out a Killer Darkity Dark Evil Death Boss of Doom doesn't. The missions you're likely to see first are mostly the ones that didn't take much intelligence or thought or testing to create. Or, in some cases, spell-checking.
There are probably a couple of different dynamics in play:
<ul type="square">[*]Vanity bosses - The boss is one of the player's characters, and wants you to truly understand how awesome they are.[*]Player-killer GMs - Everyone who's ever played a pen-and-paper RPG has run into one of these. They still suck in a virtual environment.[*]Poor/incomplete testing - The author may not realize that their boss is especially lethal if they've only fought against it with one or two ATs or powersets.[*]Personal investment - The author cares about their bosses and doesn't want you to kill them. See also Vanity, Player-Killer, e-peen.[*]E-peen measuring - The author can kill your character, so they must be way more awesome-er than you are, lol, lrn2play nub.[/list]A Boss of Death in a thoughtful, creative arc gets a pass from me as long as it fits in the story. A Boss of Death in a content-free arc gets a poor rating and a punch-out.
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
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Oky.. ive been tring out a ton of arcs and it seams like half dont have stories, and outta the other half that do atleast 60-70% of um have either mobs that are too hard, or bosses that are basically instant death
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There are immature and stupid people in the world. As long as there are the types of people that enjoy spreading viruses or hacking into first-person shooter games, we get to put up with idiots that enjoy aggrivating others. What were the ratings on those arcs? The only method we have to combat these failures of evolution in the mission architect is to submit an appropriate rating for the arc. If you're not willing to experience gameplay frustration, I honestly suggest not playing arcs without many positive ratings.
I think the other dynamics in play could be<ul type="square">[*]No empathy The author assumes that everybody has a min-maxed level 50 Scrapper with super purple IOs and really wants a challenge. It never occurs to the author that people gasp! might play anything less than an optimal build on the Bestest Archetype.[*]Doesn't get the concept The author has not considered the effort-reward structure of the Mission Architect, namely, that if people hate your mission and don't play it, you don't get tickets.[/list]
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Umm maybe my point was kinda missed, i probly was a little ranting..
. People that wanna make custom mobs/bosses, or even people that just want one boss for one mission should be going easier not harder.. 90% of the stuff out there is in test mode. Do you want all your testers to be frusterated and give up after one mission cause you cant even do it on heroic?
Sorry cant comment on your story or anything else cause i cant make it past the front door. Im finding this constantly on custom mA arcs.
Its sorta like dont stick kill alls on large maps, or heck large maps in general can be torcher to find that last hidden npc, or some glowy tucked into a corner that noone ever goes. Make it easier for people complete, espeically on heroic. Get solid feed back, not the standard, well i couldnt get past the first boss, or i died 5 times on the first mob before i gave up.
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I understand your point. Here is mine - the tool is only 2 weeks old. Give them more time to figure out how to create something that isn't insta-death. What is obvious to you may not be so for others. It is unfair to expect people to see things the same way you do; even if it is labeled common sense.
I'm also guessing a lot of people don't really stop to think how power sets are going to interact with each other.
Its easy to just go "Hey, Dark Miasma and Electric Blast would be cool for my super evil alien guy to have" and not realize that when at boss, elite, or AV levels of number scaling they become totally unmanageable... And its usually just the secondary effects of the set that make it so bad, like dark's accuracy debuffs and electric power sets and their endurance drains.
I had to take electric blast away from all my custom NPCs, even the minions. All that stacking endurance drain was totally overwhelming, even solo on heroic.
Should testing catch this stuff, yes... But some stuff is going to slip through anyway especially because the tester may have an AT and power sets that aren't particularly countered by what they're making and it just doesn't occur to them that it won't be that easy for everyone. I usually just include feedback if an NPC seems particularly obnoxious.
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I understand your point. Here is mine - the tool is only 2 weeks old. Give them more time to figure out how to create something that isn't insta-death. What is obvious to you may not be so for others. It is unfair to expect people to see things the same way you do; even if it is labeled common sense.
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Well i think a good start is to put the sliders on easy. Its not to hard to tell when someone cranked there boss to hard settting, Or gave them access to every power in the set. Serriiously, a boss spawning +2 to the mission, and every power in the toll box for a mission aimed for the teens or 20s?
Bottom Line
1. The custom monsters have about 6-7% more hitpoints than the regulars
2. They have increased perception
3. You can create spawns that are better than player superteams. How bout a spawn of fire blasters with empathy as a secondary anyone ? Or how bout stalkers with sonic blast ?
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Bottom Line
3. You can create spawns that are better than player superteams. How bout a spawn of fire blasters with empathy as a secondary anyone ? Or how bout stalkers with sonic blast ?
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Ohh those sound like fun !!
though after seeing a post on the boards about a fire/dark troller,, I think im gonna make one as a boss, that will rock !
You guys briefly touched on another possibility that I would like to bring back up. Alot of people do have max/min characters. I have a brute that walks through normal content with minimal effort on relentless. My arcs designed to provide myself and those I play with a challenge again. Arcs where minions are bosses, lt's are EB's, and bosses are AV's are actually a challenge to us...sometimes. We label these things accordingly. When you see names like "proving grounds" or "scrapper challenge" these are gonna be rough. These missions are more about how far you get not necessarily "I win"
Just my 2 inf.
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You guys briefly touched on another possibility that I would like to bring back up. Alot of people do have max/min characters. I have a brute that walks through normal content with minimal effort on relentless....
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I'd have to agree here. Sure there are p"player-killer" and egoist GM's out there. But also some people are using the MA as a way to create harder challenges for themselves than the game currently offers. I also say, read the arc description very carefully, that will usually tell what you're in for, in most cases.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Another thing that can happen is that you get a configuration that hasn't been tested.
You have 3 types of lieut available, one of which has empathy. With your EB, 2 emps show up and the double forted EB hits you all the time through capped defence for almost all your hits.
Be careful about what buffs your lieutanants and minions have when they spawn with your "big nasties".
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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You guys briefly touched on another possibility that I would like to bring back up. Alot of people do have max/min characters. I have a brute that walks through normal content with minimal effort on relentless....
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I'd have to agree here. Sure there are p"player-killer" and egoist GM's out there. But also some people are using the MA as a way to create harder challenges for themselves than the game currently offers. I also say, read the arc description very carefully, that will usually tell what you're in for, in most cases.
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hey if you want to do that thats fine.. just label it. dont call your mission.. Soloable, Or easy romp, Or ment for 15-20 When its obvously ment for some maxed out IO'd toon.
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Another thing that can happen is that you get a configuration that hasn't been tested.
You have 3 types of lieut available, one of which has empathy. With your EB, 2 emps show up and the double forted EB hits you all the time through capped defence for almost all your hits.
Be careful about what buffs your lieutanants and minions have when they spawn with your "big nasties".
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If this is the case, you can make custom groups to spawn with your boss.. this is one of my favorite features. My first mission is a 5-14 skull/hellion arc with CoT... But i found that when ya hit 14, spectral demon follows show up and basically crank up the difficulty big time.
Soo i made a custom CoT spawn and used all the 5-14 CoT excluding the spectral demon follows. I did leave the Leut though, for thematic purposes. but i must say removing just that one mob type really reduced the difficulty
I think everyone has a certain concept in mind when they build their arcs. When I designed mine (see below), I wanted it to very challenging. I picked powersets that I figured would accomplish that goal. After running it a few times, especially on larger teams, I found that having triple-stacked flash arrow didn't make it challenging, it made it frustrating. So I promoted that TA to a LT so it wouldn't spawn as much and have more powers to choose from. Definitely better. I can solo my arc on heroic with my blaster if I stay super frosty on it. So that read to me that it was okay otherwise.
I think until people get a real handle on the powers and how they function in the MA, there'll be some tough stuff and some good opportunities to learn and use strategy (and as one person said, lots of purples lol).
Arc 185502: Who Killed Snow Globe? a mini mystery Put together the clues to solve the case!
Arc 22832: And Hell Hath No Fury (extreme)
Will you be the key to the Knives of Artemis' survival? or the instrument of their destruction?
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2. They have increased perception
[/ QUOTE ]What's your proof of this? Because aside from critters with +per powers, I haven't noticed behavior any different from normal gameplay with regards to stealth.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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A large number of Pencil-and-Paper GMs think the goal is to kill the player characters as quickly and certainly as possible. Fortunately, some of them realize that the real goal is to provide an interesting and enjoyable game, where the players have a reasonably high chance of success, but not an absolute guarantee.
It looks like the same thing is happening here.
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Well, I made a short story that will probably kill you, but it clearly says to in the description, mission, and clues. It is sort of an homage to Zombie B-Movies, and ends with a zombie apocalypse worthy of screen shots. It the most fun I've had dying in a game since Planescape.
There can be a place for it, but it is important to warn your audience in advance, and often too.
Liberty:
proud member of the LEGION, SISTERHOOD
@Doctor Photon
I don't publish a mission until I've soloed it (without dying or stacking purples) several times first, but I have also been designing my critters as a challenge to a "Billion Dollar Brute". I'll warn you it's hard in the description, so no apologies if your Level 21 Defender can't complete it. The problem with wanting to create these challenging arcs though, is that they usually get low-starred when the player dies, blaming the author instead of their toon, despite the warnings. So yeah, if you care about ratings, pander to the weak. </brute>
As someone who has made a "hard" boss, here are some tips:
-Make it clear to your players that the mission/objective is going to be hard, even suggest getting a few friends together.
-Put in optional (not required for mission completion) allies. Also make sure the allies are not the main in the mission, they should focus on support if possible. Also make sure that they fit in the mission.
-Make sure the boss is not impossible. The "hard" boss I made is specific, and flows with the plot. He is soloable, at least with my fire/fire tank he was fairly easily soloable.
-Encourage feedback, and welcome suggestions. If someone plays your arc, and says they had trouble with the boss, listen, and be willing to make some minor changes.
On a side note, in the same arc where I put my custom "hard" boss, the first mission has a custom "modified" version of The Wretch. The non-custom one is (at the level I want the arc to be) hard coded to be a level 52 AV. He won't spawn as an EB. My custom Wretch does.
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Another thing is to tell the potential players in the Description if you are using multiple AV's in a tight area.
I'm doing a LVL 50 Arc, and I recommend in the Description that you have a full team of lvl 50 players. It's my version of a Strike Force/Task Force.
Same applies to Hard Bosses. Warn folks. Then they will hopefully think before jumping in.
Just my 2 cents
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
I can understand the player's frustration. But as the OP said it is a new tool and I think with time MA peeps will learn how to scale their bosses better.
The last two missions in the arc I'm working on are probably pretty rough atm. I've even given the player help with a high level ally, but it still may not work. Shrug. =]
I may rework it a bit more but I think as long as the players of the MA missions gives valuable feedback to help the builders know when they may have gone over board will go a long way in helping find the even balance for the harder missions.
long point short.. too many arcs have custom stuff that is just way to powerfull even on heroic. I realize this tool is new, But i think people should really scale back to start with. Its just no fun not making it past the first door. cant even try it to even get feedback.
If you need a group say soo, if its ment to be hard, let us know. personaly if something is on heroic i shouldnt be face planting with a 50 in 3 hits..
Ive been giving feed back, but i never head any return soo i dont even know if anyone is listening.. i wish people would scale back just a bit, its a game its ment to be fun not a night of running back and forth to the cloner.
Sooo far, one arc that i did like, challenging but not extreme, and fun story.. It takes place on the Rouge islands and contact is oppertive kirkland. I was on a hero soo it was sorta like i was a rouge mercanary, worked for RP atleast
its called
32801, Sharkhead Island and the Circle of banished warriors. (can ya guess the mobs?) Its a magic themed arc and very entertianing. Only issue i had was last mission was a big outdoor map and fidning the bosses was kinda a pain, but atleast the map fit the arcs theme and did make for a nice ending. Just too bad we cant place the bosses better making larger maps easier to use.
soo anyone got some decent arcs out there that arnt just stupid hard? It really is no fun when ya got the mission set to heroic and the mobs are basiclaly no challenge only to get to end boss and you need a tray of large insps to take him down,,
Its just frusterating, espeically when ya see soo many people asking for more space to make more custom mobs.. when to date i think ive found all of a handfull taht had custom mobs that were accually fun to play against, Not some instant death slog fest on heroic.
/endrant
32801