Hall of Fame is not realistically attainable
By
Amberyl,
Posted on: 2009-04-09 21:10 in Mission Architect
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2 is nearly impossible and once you have it you never get another
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Where did you hear this? Because it's not true.
@Roderick
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2 is nearly impossible and once you have it you never get another
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Where did you hear this? Because it's not true.
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It is true. They decided not to allow any multi-DCs when they transfered over from live and I doubt they'll allow more in the future, because of the forum brouhaha over it.
Either way, given they've said it'll be awarded to 1% of people out there, it hardly works as a solution to the problem of low slot counts. It's just as much a piece of Unobtainium as an HOF. (Yes, yes, I have one, but how many people reading this right now have one also? Not a heck of a lot, and I want slots for anybody who could make good use of them, in an ideal world.)
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
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Solution: Change the requirements, or at least give us other means to get slots -- microtransaction, craftable, ticket buy, veteran reward, I don't care. Otherwise, for 98% of us, it's gonna be 3 stories and then you can never use the feature again without destroying your own work. And for the 1% of us who are lucky enough to get DC, that's 4 stories and then you can never use the feature again etc. etc.
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Where's the remaining 1% of people fit? I'd wager that will be your HoF arcs. Give it time...mathematically unfeasible is such a strong word.
My guess? We'll see a HoF arc within a week.
The only people that will get 2 Dev's Choice are those with previous Dev's Choice or outstanding writersor Dev favourites. Hero1 himself said it was like 'cheating' with some people.
The system is terrible. Look, my arc is average-mediocre-sometimes fun for people but if I tweak and tweak I have to get my sgmates to run it again, get my friends to run it again and I lose my ratings every time.
There's 10,000+ arcs out there. Even if I rate some of them kindly, they'll NEVER get HoF or Dev's Choice status.
Lower the reqquirements for HoF and Dev's Choice for crying out loud. Yes, yes, culture of mediocrity.
Look, it's an MMO. You're making money of making people feel they're superheroes instead off ordinary Janes and Joes taking time off from their jobs.
What's the point in doing really great arcs if no one notices? I played some fantastic stuff and it has two or three ratings, sometimes none. Very deflating, very discouraging and very tiring.
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Best to set the bar high and lower it if needed, than to have to raise it later.
I think the best solution would be to preserve ratings when an arc is unpublished, in case you wanted to republish it again later. This would allow people to rotate through arcs without losing ratings etc. They could even keep a dozen unpublished arcs on the server they take up so little disk space.
I'd like the Devs to give it a month. Then find the rating average between 0.0-5.0 that would award HoF to 1% of the arcs out there.
If the threshold of 4.5 already allows 1% or more, then keep it there. If they need to lower it to a rating of 4.38, then do it.
I think the ratio of 1% DC, 1% HoF is perfect.
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I think the ratio of 1% DC, 1% HoF is perfect.
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So 98% of all players will be stuck with 3 slots forever? I think many of them would object to that notion.
If the devs introduce the blindingly obvious, namely buyable / craftable / whateverable extra slots so that prolific authors can do their thing, I could POSSIBLY see 2% being given free slots.
But if DC/HOF are the only methods that will ever be provided, we're really not going to get the growth we need with MA. Quality authors bring quality content bring players to the game, which is good for COH's health in the long run. And I'm guessing that more than 2% of all authors are of a high enough caliber to produce lots of solid stuff.
(I honestly believe the devs WILL introduce other slot methods... but they haven't said anything. They haven't hinted at anything. They've said jack. And I'm not going to assume they see the obvious, I have to work with what's in front of me. A lot of things that are "obvious" never came to fruition in the past.)
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
I don't enjoy always being right and in this case I really didn't want to be as I was mostly just pointing out the weaknesses of the rating system.
But I think that "pay for star" service just got a lot more attractive, or wait for slot(s) @ $9.99.
I'm sorry they canned multi-DC, I certainly never asked for that, but it does make a lot of sense to lead into microtransactions as some of the most notable authors that would have likely earned multi-DC will gobble up slots for real cash.
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So 98% of all players will be stuck with 3 slots forever? I think many of them would object to that notion.
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Sorry, I misunderstood your argument! Three slots are a little meager, especially when most of our playerbase is overflowing with creativity.
I still stand by 1% DC and 1% HoF, but I do agree that there should be other ways to gain more slots. I just don't want to take away from what it means to be a HoF arc. To me, the free slot is a secondary bonus to getting HoF. It wouldn't be my primary reason for trying to get that honor.
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I think the ratio of 1% DC, 1% HoF is perfect.
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Me too .. this is HoF .. not the " hall of good archs you should do ". maybe it's my old age, that i'm sick of this " they tried hard, we should award them a big gold ribbon " attatude folks have.
Hall of Fame folks .. think of other hall of fames , like sports or actors .. and i'm willing to bet less then 1% of the professionals in that feild ever make their hall of fame. Why .. becouse you not only have to be purtty good .. you have to be one of the best of all time.
set the bar high i say .. it will only encorage the good authors to make better archs .. and seperate the wanna-be's out. i wanna see hard work done by the MA author and put into a HoF mission. i wanna see a work of art, and get a sence that the author toiled over his/her masterpeice.
think folks .. this aint getting a blue ribbon at the county fair for growing a nice looking pumpkin ... it's HALL OF FAME !
best we as players can do is judge the archs fairly.
i don't expect i'll ever get a HoF arch .. but i can keep trying.
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3. Make Hall of Fame, which requires a 4.5+ rating overall and 1000+ votes.
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I heard in beta from someone (I think Zombie Man) that HoF was changed to some large number of 4 or 5 star votes-- that it ignores anything else. Can anyone confirm that?
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
It might be that the intention is for MA missions to not stay up for long periods of time. I know that I will be eventually rotating out arcs as I get better using the tool. This type of behavior will begat a need for a way for a person to find out when an author they like has put something new up, and a way for the author to inform 'fans' (used loosely) that they have something new up.
I have no clue what it would take for an arc to hit HoF. In fact, I doubt that this is even possible redside. The only way a redside arc might hit HoF is if farmers start giving ratings on arcs.
Then again, someone might make something very special.
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Solution: Change the requirements, or at least give us other means to get slots -- microtransaction, craftable, ticket buy, veteran reward, I don't care. Otherwise, for 98% of us, it's gonna be 3 stories and then you can never use the feature again without destroying your own work. And for the 1% of us who are lucky enough to get DC, that's 4 stories and then you can never use the feature again etc. etc.
If COH wants to be the YouTube of MMO gaming, this isn't gonna cut it.
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QFE
My prediction is that we'll be seeing the ability to buy MA arc slots before this year is out. What I want to know is, will all of the content from the booster packs be resold for use on the MA.
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I have no clue what it would take for an arc to hit HoF. In fact, I doubt that this is even possible redside. The only way a redside arc might hit HoF is if farmers start giving ratings on arcs.
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I have no idea what you are getting at. AE arcs are not side-restricted at all. That Heroic/Neutral/Villainous tag is just for search purposes.
pohsyb and I had a 'miscommunication.' We cleared it up:
HoF is an *average* (mean) rating of greater than 4 (so, let's say, 4.0001 or greater) and more than X votes. On Test, X = 100. On Live, I'm not sure what X equals, but the pre-release FAQ says 1,000 ratings.
So, if you had 1,000 votes of 4-stars, and one 5-star, then you'd make HoF. So, consider 4-star votes as simply not counting. If it's a good arc, you should not be getting any 2s or 1s. So, then it basically comes down to this: after 1,000 votes, did you get more 5 star ratings than 3 star ratings? If yes, you're HoF.
And before we say "1,000 or more votes is unreasonable," let's give this a month. Once people make their 3 arcs, they'll have nothing to do but play other people's arcs for days and months on end.
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HoF is an *average* (mean) rating of greater than 4 (so, let's say, 4.0001 or greater) and more than X votes. On Test, X = 100. On Live, I'm not sure what X equals, but the pre-release FAQ says 1,000 ratings.
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I thought it required a higher rating to hit HoF. It'll eventually happen redside. The more interesting question is how many people are actually rating arcs they have completed.
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I have no idea what you are getting at. AE arcs are not side-restricted at all. That Heroic/Neutral/Villainous tag is just for search purposes.
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I was stating my opinion that heroes tend to prefer heroic missions while villains tend to prefer a more evil slant. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
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I think the ratio of 1% DC, 1% HoF is perfect.
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So 98% of all players will be stuck with 3 slots forever? I think many of them would object to that notion.
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I've got six slots. A friend of mine has nine. I've met people with as many as 24. You asked for a way to buy extra slots. We've already got it. It costs $20 up front and $15/month afterwards.
If the devs didn't know that my accounts were both mine, I could get two dev choices. I prbably could anyways, because it would be silly to limit it to one per player rather than one per account.
And as far as making HoF more attainable... If you make arcs that stink, why should you get the badge? One percent of 100,000 subscribers is still a LOT of people getting the badge. Work on your mission, improve it, and you will eventually have something worthy.
@Roderick
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So, if you had 1,000 votes of 4-stars, and one 5-star, then you'd make HoF. So, consider 4-star votes as simply not counting. If it's a good arc, you should not be getting any 2s or 1s.
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When was the last time you PUGged? And the tank who never took any armors or attacks after level 6, instead opting for the stealth pool, and the teleport pool, and the flight pool, and the superspeed pool, blamed the defender who had healing aura on autofire for not following him into the knot of 30 purple Freak tanks?
Arcs are going to get 2s and 1s out of spite and misclicks and because the rater doesn't like the shade of blue you used for your custom mobs which are actually the stock Antimatter robots that he has never seen.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
I think the 4 average is unfeasible.
Too many jealous, vindictive, or just their arc played are going to pile 1 stars on anyone close to going HOF.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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If it's a good arc, you should not be getting any 2s or 1s.
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"Good arc" is relative, and lots of arcs you and I consider to be good will be getting 2s and 1s for reasons both you and I will find ridiculous. I had a mission 1 starred 2 minutes after posting it, they didn't have time to fight more than a few spawns assuming they clicked my arc the instant it was posted. A friend of mine just got downvoted for having two glowies spawn on top of each other, as if that was something they had control over.
Lots of people vote the minimum on ranking systems like these for stupid or vindictive reasons, and some people only vote with 1 or 5-- 1 starring anything they don't like for any reason. A lot of people don't like EBs at all, and some will 1 star you for having one because they believe any mission should be soloable by average builds on Unyielding, and they don't care if you say it's meant for a team. Hell, some people will downvote you for having a Boss "too early in the mission". Some people have said on the boards that if they are presented with "a ton of text", they will 1 star the mission. I don't know about you, but for me, a "good arc" requires plenty of text.
And don't forget that there are badges attached to getting people to play your arc, so it's actually in your best interest (if you care about your badges more than your integrity) to downvote other people's arcs until you show up on earlier pages.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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So, if you had 1,000 votes of 4-stars, and one 5-star, then you'd make HoF. So, consider 4-star votes as simply not counting. If it's a good arc, you should not be getting any 2s or 1s.
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When was the last time you PUGged? And the tank who never took any armors or attacks after level 6, instead opting for the stealth pool, and the teleport pool, and the flight pool, and the superspeed pool, blamed the defender who had healing aura on autofire for not following him into the knot of 30 purple Freak tanks?
Arcs are going to get 2s and 1s out of spite and misclicks and because the rater doesn't like the shade of blue you used for your custom mobs which are actually the stock Antimatter robots that he has never seen.
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This was better stated than my post.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
I think what bothers me most about the HoF requirements isn't the requirement itself, it's trouble with some members of the playerbase and how they rate.
For instance, I received feedback on an arc that was floating in the 4-5 star range that consisted of "too hard, team kept dying." Since I was online I asked what specificaly was too hard and was informed "it was too stupid hard all the way through." Now, mind you this arc has exactly 3 custom bad guys (all end bosses/ebs) and the rest are regular baddies, so I was curious what exactly had happened. I pressed a bit for more details. Turns out they had a team of 7, one 50 who was getting the missions and six 46 to 48s and were running at the highest difficulty. That means the baddies were +3 to +7 to the majority of the team. Yeah, of course it was "too hard." His parting comment was, "it sux, one star from everyone" and sure enough, in a few moments, I got 5 new ratings and the rating of the arc dropped from showing 5 stars to 4.
If people are going to rate not based on the content itself, but their own poor playing or their own poor choices in building a team or worse, that it was "too hard" to run at +7 then the rating system becomes a joke.
I know I have a list of powers that gets an automatic 1 star from me.
Any summoned pets, glue arrow, caltrops, confuse, basicly powers that really slow you the heck down really tick me off.
So no matter how good a story is any of those powers show up and its a 1.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I think what bothers me most about the HoF requirements isn't the requirement itself, it's trouble with some members of the playerbase and how they rate.
For instance, I received feedback on an arc that was floating in the 4-5 star range that consisted of "too hard, team kept dying." Since I was online I asked what specificaly was too hard and was informed "it was too stupid hard all the way through." Now, mind you this arc has exactly 3 custom bad guys (all end bosses/ebs) and the rest are regular baddies, so I was curious what exactly had happened. I pressed a bit for more details. Turns out they had a team of 7, one 50 who was getting the missions and six 46 to 48s and were running at the highest difficulty. That means the baddies were +3 to +7 to the majority of the team. Yeah, of course it was "too hard." His parting comment was, "it sux, one star from everyone" and sure enough, in a few moments, I got 5 new ratings and the rating of the arc dropped from showing 5 stars to 4.
If people are going to rate not based on the content itself, but their own poor playing or their own poor choices in building a team or worse, that it was "too hard" to run at +7 then the rating system becomes a joke.
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This is exactly why the rating system was a bad idea. It was taken away from us here on the forums for member rating. Now they give us a rating system for our arcs?
I just don't understand it.
As I posted in the other thread, I feel your pain. I posted my main arc up as soon as I logged in to issue 14 and it contains 4 missions. it would take a solo player about 40-45 minutes to run, if you took your time.
No sooner I posted my arc to the server, 2 minutes later I got my first rating which was a 1 star. So we knew this was going to happen. THis person rated my arc probably because they don't like me or it was just a random vote from someone being a jackass.
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I think what bothers me most about the HoF requirements isn't the requirement itself, it's trouble with some members of the playerbase and how they rate.
For instance, I received feedback on an arc that was floating in the 4-5 star range that consisted of "too hard, team kept dying." Since I was online I asked what specificaly was too hard and was informed "it was too stupid hard all the way through." Now, mind you this arc has exactly 3 custom bad guys (all end bosses/ebs) and the rest are regular baddies, so I was curious what exactly had happened. I pressed a bit for more details. Turns out they had a team of 7, one 50 who was getting the missions and six 46 to 48s and were running at the highest difficulty. That means the baddies were +3 to +7 to the majority of the team. Yeah, of course it was "too hard." His parting comment was, "it sux, one star from everyone" and sure enough, in a few moments, I got 5 new ratings and the rating of the arc dropped from showing 5 stars to 4.
If people are going to rate not based on the content itself, but their own poor playing or their own poor choices in building a team or worse, that it was "too hard" to run at +7 then the rating system becomes a joke.
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This is exactly why the rating system was a bad idea. It was taken away from us here on the forums for member rating. Now they give us a rating system for our arcs?
I just don't understand it.
As I posted in the other thread, I feel your pain. I posted my main arc up as soon as I logged in to issue 14 and it contains 4 missions. it would take a solo player about 40-45 minutes to run, if you took your time.
No sooner I posted my arc to the server, 2 minutes later I got my first rating which was a 1 star. So we knew this was going to happen. THis person rated my arc probably because they don't like me or it was just a random vote from someone being a jackass.
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True. One of my first (and only) truly negative comments was "too much end drain, I can't do this" and then a low rating. It didnt bug me that much except they werent exactly very constructive about it. >>
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There are only three ways (currently...) to get one of your story slots back.
1. Unpublish, losing all your ratings and forward progress.
2. Get a Dev Choice, which will happen to maybe 1% of all arcs at best and only can happen once per author.
3. Make Hall of Fame, which requires a 4.5+ rating overall and 1000+ votes.
1 is self-defeating, 2 is nearly impossible and once you have it you never get another, so that leaves 3. And 3 is not attainable.
(For purposes of this discussion we'll ignore "how do I get 1000 ratings in the first place" because that's another problem entirely -- but keep it in mind when putting this into scope.)
Consider. You can rate 0-5 stars. The ONLY rating which helps you in any way towards Hall of Fame is 5 stars -- everything else, including 4 stars, pulls your rating downward. 4 less so, but 3, 2, and (egh) 1 will do serious damage. And the amount of slap-dash, inconsiderate rating going on out there even on decent arcs is quite silly.
Worst of all, if someone actually hates your work enough to slap it with zero stars, that effectively negates multiple five star ratings in a single shot -- and it is entirely possible to have a great arc 0 starred out of malice, incompetence, or just hatred of some trivial issue; I've heard so many anecdotes about this today it's not even funny.
We already have multiple arcs with 1000+ rating... but they're between 4.0 and 4.5, because getting 4.5+ is mathematically unfeasible. The only way anyone can conceivably ever get Hall of Fame is if the vast majority of voters decide to be kind and rate it five. Not "Really great work, but not perfect" 4, it's gotta be fives up the wazoo to get 4.5+, balancing against "I couldn't farm this / my ice/ff controller couldn't solo this" votes of 1 or 0.
Yeah, good luck with that.
Solution: Change the requirements, or at least give us other means to get slots -- microtransaction, craftable, ticket buy, veteran reward, I don't care. Otherwise, for 98% of us, it's gonna be 3 stories and then you can never use the feature again without destroying your own work. And for the 1% of us who are lucky enough to get DC, that's 4 stories and then you can never use the feature again etc. etc.
If COH wants to be the YouTube of MMO gaming, this isn't gonna cut it.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!