Gravity (Again)
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2009-04-08 08:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
As a long-time grav/ player, I can certainly understand your frustration 
IMHO, the only real change grav/ needs to be more competitive with other control primaries would be the following -
Gravity Distortion Field
1. decrease recharge time from 240 seconds to 120 seconds
That's it. It's already available fairly early in your career (lvl 18), it's a mag 3 hold, a duration of 17.9 seconds, and has a 20 foot radius.
Simply making this power more available to us via faster recharge would definitely increase our QoL.
Just my 2 cents...
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Gravity is a very weak yet persistent force...
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Gravity Distortion Field
1. decrease recharge time from 240 seconds to 120 seconds
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I agree with this! Also, I'd like to see the singularity pull things toward it instead of knock things away... you know... like a mini black hole? This is what a singularity is--right?
I will add the reduced recharge of GDF to the main post, its a good alternative to wormhole fiddling. (Although some positive wormhole changes would still be welcome!)
Thanks for the support guys. :-)
For AOE controls, gravity has the standard AOE immobilize on a short timer, and AOE hold on a very long timer. The two of its AOE powers that are unusual compared to other control sets are dimension shift, and wormhole.
Wormhole is an AOE teleport foe combined with a mag three stun, 20% chance of a mag 4, knockback in case the hold doesn't take and it's only on a 90 second timer. You don't need line of sight and you can place the targets wherever you like, so controlling the knockback is no problem. It has a smaller radius than some AOE controls, but the same target limit. I consider that limited radius a small trade-off for all the other abilities. Dimension shift is a panic button, with a 90-second timer. Most control sets have some power of this nature, and a lot of players skip them. D-shift is more extreme than most -- lots of sets have AOE sleeps that are great on overflow enemies, but wasted on the team's main target. Dimension shift is better against the overflow right up until the team is ready to deal with them, and is counterproductive if you accidentally use it on the main target. Ok, don't screw up, no problem. Alternately, skip the power. You'll hear that advice about the AOE sleep powers if you visit the controller forums often enough.
You don't like the order of the AOE controls. Wormhole fills (very roughly) the same function on the gravity list that arctic air and stalagmites do for ice and earth, and those come quite a bit earlier than level 26. The problem I have with swapping this and dimension shift is that it frontloads gravity with all of its fun single-target powers and its AOE controls very early on, leaving the skippable powers for later. I could see moving crushing field into the propel slot, then swapping propel and wormhole. Alternately, leave propel where it is and swap wormhole with Gravity Distortion Field. I can't agree with having (ST) gravity distortion, crushing field, wormhole, lift and propel available by lvl 12. And I would not change the powers themselves in any way.
<QR> I'd mostly just like to have Propel with a full 80' range or do just KD rather than KB.
If I could take the game, put it in a box separate from everyone else, and change one power in the set, I'd swap Dimension Shift or Propel for a power named Gravity Well. Targetted AoE, 25ft. radius, 90-second recharge, 20-30s duration. Creates a reverse repel effect, drawing all foes toward the center, along with a slow. High chance of knockdown throughout the duration, ala Freezing Rain. A readily-available AoE knockdown would synergize perfectly with Crushing Field, thanks to its lack of a -kb effect.
'Course, it would require totally removing an existing power, which probly just ain't gonna happen.
Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.
The way I see it Boardthug, is that Gravity needs the tools to do its job. Where as most control sets have a plethora of powers that get the job done, gravity has lots of powers that are just fluff. The only power in the whole set that is often skipped is Dimension Shift and for good reason. In the rare circumstance that its needed, you are probably dead anyway.
Current order:
1, Crush (ST Immob)
1, Lift (ST Knockup)
2, Gravity Distortion (ST Hold + Knockback protection)
6, Propel (ST Knockback)
8, Crushing Field (AoE Immob)
12, Dimension Shift (AoE Intangible)
18, Gravity Distortion Field (AoE Hold + Knockback protection)
26, Wormhole (AoE Enemy TP + Stun + Knockback)
32, Singularity (Pet)
If you look at that list, you will see that
A) Gravity gets no AoE control outside AoE Immobalize until level 18. This itself is laughable. A dark blast corrupter has more AoE control then this.
B) The AoE hold at 18 has a long recharge and short duration. In my experience a team can kill between 2 - 4 groups before it has recharged, giving it an uptime of 25-50%. Otherwise, Grav relies on just AoE immobalize till..
C) Wormhole arrives at 26, and is not even that good. Most gravs try and abuse it with walls as a work around to the knockback anyway.
Conclusion?
In practice, a Grav just under performs. That has always been my experience while playing as one. Any road test of Grav will show the same. Now I could do a more in depth analysis but the facts to me are clear.
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If I could take the game, put it in a box separate from everyone else, and change one power in the set, I'd swap Dimension Shift or Propel for a power named Gravity Well. Targetted AoE, 25ft. radius, 90-second recharge, 20-30s duration. Creates a reverse repel effect, drawing all foes toward the center, along with a slow. High chance of knockdown throughout the duration, ala Freezing Rain. A readily-available AoE knockdown would synergize perfectly with Crushing Field, thanks to its lack of a -kb effect.
'Course, it would require totally removing an existing power, which probly just ain't gonna happen.
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This has been suggested many times, even when Kheldians were released and they had/were going to have access to a power called "Gravity Well". It fits with the set and the theme, but I agree, unlikely that despite how unpopular Dimension Shift is, it will never be replaced.
Personally I think the only thing that saves Dimension Shift from the axe is the fact it sounds so cool, despite being so lame. How such a power relates to a set based around Gravity I don't know though ;-)
The reason why there has never been a power that works as a reverse Repel (Not the power, but the effect), is because the game engine can't handle it. I have no clue if the Dev's post is still out there on it or not sadly.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
LoL, I'm currently levelling a Warshade, and somehow managed to forget that Gravity Well is taken. How about Black Hole? Wait, no... I dunno, call it Grav Pulse. LoL.
Edit: RE: Natsuki: Even without the inverse repel, I think an AoE slow/knockdown would work well with the set. But, at this point, it's wishful thinking anywho. Guess that's why I have my Grav/Storm. 
Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.
Ah then it must of changed, but yes Gravity Well was orginally designed to do what you suggested, much to the shock of Gravity Controllers everywhere ;-)
However the location effect - periodic knockup, or AoE lift, is another suggestion that is always fun with gravity.
However my initial suggestions were more minor because to be frank, nothing much is ever done with Gravity. Probably because as a set, it does not have a very loud voice.
I mentioned this in another thread but thought it might go over well here (Thanks for the link Ditzy_Blonde) and I haven't seen it mentioned thus far (forgive me if it has, i really just skimmed through).
As a newcomer to the Grav power (recently started a Grav/Elec DOM) this was the first thing that ran through my head while using propel....That it should be a Cone attack instead of ST. IMO, that would make more sense. And also perhaps make up for the longer animation a bit.
Here are the controller primaries, their aoe hold, recharge, and durations. Tell me, please, what you think is wrong with gravity's.
Earth: (no AOE hold, closest approximation) Volcanic gasses, multiple effects, durations range from 15 s to 61 s, deals significant damage, recharge 4 m
Fire: Cinders, mag 3, duration 10 s, recharge 4 m
Gravity: Gravity Distortion Field, mag 3, duration 10 s, recharge 4 m
Ice: Glacier, PBAOE, mag 3, duration 10 s, recharge 4 m
Illusion: ??? no reasonable equivalent
Mind: Total Domination, mag 3, duration 10 s, recharge 4 m
Plant: Vines, mag 3, duration 10 s, recharge 4 m
We're never going to agree on wormhole. I think it's one of the best powers available to any controller.
What we agreed on is that having as many single-target attacks as it does, gravity develops its AOE control more slowly than most control sets. You listed this:
Current order:
1, Crush (ST Immob)
1, Lift (ST Knockup)
2, Gravity Distortion (ST Hold + Knockback protection)
6, Propel (ST Knockback)
8, Crushing Field (AoE Immob)
12, Dimension Shift (AoE Intangible)
18, Gravity Distortion Field (AoE Hold + Knockback protection)
26, Wormhole (AoE Enemy TP + Stun + Knockback)
32, Singularity (Pet)
I proposed two variants, both designed to bring more practical, usable AOE control to the set earlier.
version 1:
1, Crush (ST Immob)
1, Lift (ST Knockup)
2, Gravity Distortion (ST Hold + Knockback protection)
6, Crushing Field (AoE Immob)
8, Wormhole (AoE Enemy TP + Stun + Knockback)
12, Dimension Shift (AoE Intangible)
18, Gravity Distortion Field (AoE Hold + Knockback protection)
26, Propel (ST Knockback)
32, Singularity (Pet)
version 2:
1, Crush (ST Immob)
1, Lift (ST Knockup)
2, Gravity Distortion (ST Hold + Knockback protection)
6, Propel (ST Knockback)
8, Crushing Field (AoE Immob)
12, Dimension Shift (AoE Intangible)
18, Wormhole (AoE Enemy TP + Stun + Knockback)
26, Gravity Distortion Field (AoE Hold + Knockback protection)
32, Singularity (Pet)
<QR>
I could write up a big long post on this subject (its an issue near and dear to my heart) but I'm lazy, so I'll just refer to the link in my Sig. my thoughts on the subject haven't really changed since I started that thread.
In addition to the Wormhole changes suggested (larger radius, earlier set position, shorter animation) I would suggest making it autohit and forcing the stun to hit at -25%. Basically that would make certain that a spawn doesn't get slip up without giving Grav an autohit stun.
Propel needs to hit Cone. Dimension Shift needs to change to a toggle (single aoe I don't care). Wormhole needs to be faster.
Here's a thought though this would likely have some unpredictable and unpleasant results. A gravity well like power could spawn several pseudo-pets in a circular array, all using a telekinesis like power, to create an imitation of a -repel power. I'd imagine they would all have to target the same creature though and their tk effect would have to have a range slightly longer than the radius of the circle.
1: Propel as a cone KB/Damage power (probably 1/2 to 1/3 current damage depending on cone arc... personally I'm thinking narrow cone, 15-20 degrees).
2: Lift as a 15' radius AoE lift, drop to 1/2 current damage and recharge at 12 sec.
That should be enough. Gravity becomes a KD/KU/KB control set with AoEs, plus AoE damage. It's a better distinguishing characteristic than its current low-AoE control, high-ST damage characteristic.
I have a lvl 43 Gravity/Icy Dom. My feelings are:
1. Wormhole needs to be at least 20' radius. 15' can be a problem because it can't cover a big team and once you start teleporting them, you draw huge aggro. It is nice to do it out-of-sight but many aoe controls like Seeds and Flashfire have huge coverage.
2. Wormhole needs to come earlier than lvl 26.
3. Make Lift a radius 4 AoE knockup!
Done!
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Thankyou for the feedbakc guys, its all good!
I really want to play gravity but I'm just not hardcore enough to play a dominator that has such limited control powers. I'd really like to see an overhaul of this set.
I've got a grav/kinetics controller. With siphon speed, hasten, and some IO sets providing a global recharge speed boost the AoE hold is usually available when I need it. One caveat, this is the character I run with my wife's dark/dark scrapper so that may skew my ideas of adequate control.
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I really want to play gravity but I'm just not hardcore enough to play a dominator that has such limited control powers. I'd really like to see an overhaul of this set.
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Ouch. You missed your chance to power level your Grav Dom to over lvl 26 (Wormhole) during Farming Madness? 
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Well its time to bring up Gravity Control and its effectiveness again. Why? Because it is a weak control set that in my view could still use a few small adjustment. I know a lot of people agree and it has been left in the dark for far too long. I will try keep this brief and to the point.
Gravity's Flaws:
1) Gravity has very limited AoE control. It has no real AoE control till level 18, and this is a short duration long recharge. The "gap filler" is not accessible till level 26 and even then is mediocre at best. This makes Gravity a very very weak control set until 26, where at that level it just becomes workable in a team setting.
2) Gravity is full of single target "fun" powers, and yes they are fun, I would never advocate removing Lift or Propel. However, they also are not hugely effective in a team setting. Due to this, there is a greater importance of other early powers in the set to be usful.
3) Dimension Shift, Gravity's first really powerful power has a very negative effect on teams. If everything is going well, and you are chugging along nicely this power has zero use at all. It can only be used as a emergancy power to buy a team extra time.
As gravity does not have much control, it can not afford to have such a badly positioned power in its set. Because of its placement it leaves Gravity as the worst control set in the early game by a large margain, forcing controllers atleast to focus heavily on their secondary set. Becoming second rate defenders with a bit of control thrown in. I don't know what dominators do, they probably solo, or hitch a ride to 26 as fast as they can.
4) Wormhole is a good power, but its radius is too small and its activation time is FAR TOO LONG! It is also the only AoE Control power which has a knockback effect, causing the power to scatter foes. Especially as Gravity's AoE immobalize does not prevent knockbakc. It comes late in the tree for gravity, and many gravity players have already given up before reaching it.
Suggestions
Okay this is not all doom and gloom, Gravity is a fun set, with a great theme. It has many "cool" and "uinque" powers and arguably the best pet for helping out with control. Many people look towards it because of its unusal nature, unlike fire, frost, earth etc which is available in any game. Gravity in that way - is unique.
However it lags behind other control sets at low levels by a very big margain and while it catches up a bit with wormhole, you never quite feel like an amazing hero while playing it, rather a weak, unloved sibling of the other control sets who just about manages to get the job done.
You watch other sets pull off amazing, flashy stunts and once the novelty of propel wears off, many Grav players abandon their character for greener pastures. I for one do not blame them.
I know CoX devs do not like to adjust sets too much and I agree with this principle. However I would plead, beg and wish for them to listen to these suggestions I have which would make Gravity a much more fun, workable set at low levels whilst not making them overly powerful either.
i) Bring Wormhole to level 12, push Dimension Shift up to 26.
ii) Increase Lift's damage to match Levitate. (Controller Only)
iii) Increase Propel's damage significantly or lower animation time.
iv) Lower the activation time of Wormhole to something reasonable.
v) Increase the radius of Wormhole to match other powers with similar effects.
vi) Consider turning the knockback to knockdown, atleast when unslotted. Gravity is the only set with knockback on its AoE disorient.
vii) Replace Dimension Shift with either a 'Location Targeted Knockup Field' (kind of the reverse of Ice Slick) or a 'Targeted AoE Knockup'.
I realise wormhole is a special power due to the enemy teleport, but perhaps it would be a set defining power ala ice slick. If 12 is too early, then atleast make more radical changes to dimension shift to fill the large control gap Gravity has.
Thanks for reading!