Discussion: Forum Migrations to vBulletin
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2008-09-30 11:06 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Will the new forum remember what we've read and when you click on the link take you to the newest unread post like it does now?
Cause that is the coolest feature.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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So far my very very favorite thing I noticed on Dungeon Runners site was NO FRIGGIN STARS!
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Hate to spoil your mood Sooner, but Stars are there. I flipped thru the FAQ and apparently there is a rate thread option at the top of the thread you are viewing. 
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Well considering there are some people I've dealt with on many message boards over the years that have the attitude;
"I have a bigger post count then you, therefore your opinion doesn't mean a thing", I'd prefer no post counts and no stupid stars or any other rating system at all.
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Holy cow, sign me up for that. No more post counts! Shoot, I'd cheer for doing away with registration date, too! (Stars, meh, I can take 'em or leave 'em.)
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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Well considering there are some people I've dealt with on many message boards over the years that have the attitude;
"I have a bigger post count then you, therefore your opinion doesn't mean a thing", I'd prefer no post counts and no stupid stars or any other rating system at all.
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Holy cow, sign me up for that. No more post counts! Shoot, I'd cheer for doing away with registration date, too! (Stars, meh, I can take 'em or leave 'em.)
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I'm down with all that. Things that the new board will likely be better off withOUT having IMO:
1. Registration date: (creates a "I've been here longer so KNEEL BEFORE ME" mentality)
2. Post Count: (creates a "I post more then you so my opinion is better then yours" mentality)
3. Rating System: too easily abused, toss it out.
4. that Flash Banner.....
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Will the new forum remember what we've read and when you click on the link take you to the newest unread post like it does now?
Cause that is the coolest feature.
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You actually get both options with VB. There's a little icon next to the thread name that if you click it will go to the newest unread. If you click on just the thread name you'll go to the first post. Remember. Little arrow button next to thread name goes to first unread 
I say this because after using VB for 3 years, I finally found that stupid little button.
vBulletin? Seriously? Jelsoft (the parent company of vb) supports censorship and can revoke the rights of any site using their bb software at a moment's notice without requiring to give a reason.
Do a Google search of "vbulletin revoke" to find one of the more infamous examples... although its certainly not the only one. They aren't exactly 1st Amendment friendly. A serious and "third party" overview of the matter can be found here:
http://www.thejemreport.com/content/view/294/124/
Sorry to hear CoH is going to support them... even if its only indirectly.
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Well considering there are some people I've dealt with on many message boards over the years that have the attitude;
"I have a bigger post count then you, therefore your opinion doesn't mean a thing", I'd prefer no post counts and no stupid stars or any other rating system at all.
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Holy cow, sign me up for that. No more post counts! Shoot, I'd cheer for doing away with registration date, too! (Stars, meh, I can take 'em or leave 'em.)
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I'm down with all that. Things that the new board will likely be better off withOUT having IMO:
1. Registration date: (creates a "I've been here longer so KNEEL BEFORE ME" mentality)
2. Post Count: (creates a "I post more then you so my opinion is better then yours" mentality)
3. Rating System: too easily abused, toss it out.
4. that Flash Banner.....
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I HAVE MORE POSTS AND I'VE BEEN ON THE FORUMS LONGER! KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!
That said I have never, never, never, ever seen someone use their post count or reg date as ways of putting down people; though I have seen people who were losing an argument grasp at straws and attack a person who has been here longer or had a higher post count.
Won't care either way; but if you truly believe that a loss of post count and reg date will even slow down the douchebaggery for a second, than I will have to say that you are more of an optimist than I. 
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Well considering there are some people I've dealt with on many message boards over the years that have the attitude;
"I have a bigger post count then you, therefore your opinion doesn't mean a thing", I'd prefer no post counts and no stupid stars or any other rating system at all.
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Holy cow, sign me up for that. No more post counts! Shoot, I'd cheer for doing away with registration date, too! (Stars, meh, I can take 'em or leave 'em.)
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I'm down with all that. Things that the new board will likely be better off withOUT having IMO:
1. Registration date: (creates a "I've been here longer so KNEEL BEFORE ME" mentality)
2. Post Count: (creates a "I post more then you so my opinion is better then yours" mentality)
3. Rating System: too easily abused, toss it out.
4. that Flash Banner.....
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I HAVE MORE POSTS AND I'VE BEEN ON THE FORUMS LONGER! KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!
That said I have never, never, never, ever seen someone use their post count or reg date as ways of putting down people; though I have seen people who were losing an argument grasp at straws and attack a person who has been here longer or had a higher post count.
Won't care either way; but if you truly believe that a loss of post count and reg date will even slow down the douchebaggery for a second, than I will have to say that you are more of an optimist than I.
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I've seen the behavior I've cited on many boards over the years. While I dont beleive for a second that the removal of post counts/reg dates will STOP the behavior you describe I do believe that every little bit helps.
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vBulletin? Seriously? Jelsoft (the parent company of vb) supports censorship and can revoke the rights of any site using their bb software at a moment's notice without requiring to give a reason.
Do a Google search of "vbulletin revoke" to find one of the more infamous examples... although its certainly not the only one. They aren't exactly 1st Amendment friendly. A serious and "third party" overview of the matter can be found here:
http://www.thejemreport.com/content/view/294/124/
Sorry to hear CoH is going to support them... even if its only indirectly.
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It's a good try, but after finding out which web forum it was that got their license revoked, I'd say they didn't have a leg to stand on. From the vBulletin terms of service:
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# You undertake to;
* ensure that, prior to use of the Software by your employees or agents, all such parties are notified of the terms of this Agreement; and
* hold all data (including object and source codes), software listings and all other information relating to the Software confidential and not at any time, during the period of the license or after its expiry, disclose the same whether directly or indirectly to any third party without Jelsoft's consent.
* not to use the Software for any illegal purposes and shall comply with all applicable legislation.
...
# The Software may not be used for anything that would represent or is associated with an Intellectual Property violation, including, but not limited to, engaging in any activity that infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of others, including copyrights, trademarks, service marks, trade secrets, software piracy, and patents held by individuals, corporations, or other entities.
# If any of the terms of this Agreement are violated, Jelsoft reserves the right to revoke the Software license at any time.
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Considering what that site is still up to, it's only through Jelsoft's good graces that they're still up and running. You don't get to complain about "censorship" if you break the terms of service that you voluntarily signed up for.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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Great news. I may start posting more on the forums after this. I've been using vB on my forums since late 2001 and have had only minor complaints with it and nothing that our tech team couldn't fix or bypass. It's a wonderful piece of software IMO and beats UBB hands down.
The latest vB software is very customizable with social groups, user albums and user-profile customization. If you added blogging software to the tool, you've got your own inhouse social network, beyond what CoH boards are now. Of course, if you were to look at a certain rival company and how they run their vB forums, it is just the bare bone version they've adopted for the user base.
Admin Control Panel is easy to use, so forum staff shouldn't have a problem setting things up.
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Will the "show all" or "all" feature still be available for threads in vBulletin? I really prefer it on long threads so I can just scroll down versus going through each page separately.
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There are several options for that in the UserCP section for vBulletin. I've been using vB for several years now on my site, and there's a lot less that you can't do with it than what you CAN do This is a good move 
My DeviantArt Gallery
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From a purely cosmetic standpoint, I'll kinda miss these boards. I've always liked 'em for their simplicity and how they don't look as "busy" as a lot of other boards out there.
That being said, some new features and stability would be nice.
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The new vBulletin boards can be skinned to look almost exactly like the current UBB version. If the new ones become 'busy', it will be because the mods let it, which I doubt they will do.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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So, will the new forums allow us to post pictures and stuff like the guy did here? You'll have to scroll down a bit!
Hmpf, link wont go to the actual post, you will have to scroll down to see the photos.
And will we be able to put pictures in our Signatures too? You know.. big hulking sig pics that take up more space then the average post?
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I certainly hope not.
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I know it may not seem like it by the flavour of my previous post, but I'm in total agreement with you.
Most forums I dislike are the ones cluttered with pictures and picture signatures. They are intrusive and disrupt the flow of the posts. Keeping a visual template format somewhat similar to (but not altogether the same as) our current format would be great simply because the uncluttered nature makes following a thread easier.
"The one thing that can stop a full team of MasterMinds dead in its tracks... a doorway!" --Frogfather
My only concern is:
Will we be still able to receive topic replies by email on a REPLY BASIS?
I mean, currently, for every reply on a topic we get one email. I really love this because I can read entire topics in my inbox (I don't care to be sent a bazillion emails/day if the topic is hot) and that saves my time going to the boards. Not to mention it works nicely for people that have trouble reaching the boards (firewall and the like).
I know all those big forum systems have a "Notify by Email" feature, but they're poor because most of them just sent a notice with a direct link, and don't send any more emails until you read the topic again. That would not work nearly as well as receiving full replies by email. Some systems will sent the full reply on the email, but they will still stop sending new replies until you view the topic again.
If the new vBulletin has the feature the same way we have currently, I approve this move.
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It's a good try, but after finding out which web forum it was that got their license revoked, I'd say they didn't have a leg to stand on. From the vBulletin terms of service:
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# You undertake to;
* ensure that, prior to use of the Software by your employees or agents, all such parties are notified of the terms of this Agreement; and
* hold all data (including object and source codes), software listings and all other information relating to the Software confidential and not at any time, during the period of the license or after its expiry, disclose the same whether directly or indirectly to any third party without Jelsoft's consent.
* not to use the Software for any illegal purposes and shall comply with all applicable legislation.
...
# The Software may not be used for anything that would represent or is associated with an Intellectual Property violation, including, but not limited to, engaging in any activity that infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of others, including copyrights, trademarks, service marks, trade secrets, software piracy, and patents held by individuals, corporations, or other entities.
# If any of the terms of this Agreement are violated, Jelsoft reserves the right to revoke the Software license at any time.
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Considering what that site is still up to, it's only through Jelsoft's good graces that they're still up and running. You don't get to complain about "censorship" if you break the terms of service that you voluntarily signed up for.
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It's up to you to do more research on the matter, but that site was not the only one - just the one most public. I could easily name two legit sites, but given what their content is, I probably shouldn't (plus you'd need a paid account to see the discussions about it). The letters between the two parties, also allude it had nothing to do with the piracy, as several piracy sites larger than the one being mentioned continue to use vb... although they don't deal with "adult" material.
Again, I have no doubt this will not deter CoH from moving to VB. I'm just sad to see it happen.
I don't support piracy in any shape or form - however I do enjoy certain AV and eroge. Thus my stance against censorship based on "moral grounds" as VB enforces (and not illegal software). That they refuse to even officially discuss the matter, shows how "sensitive" it is, as it could cause a legal backwash if it infringes on Amendment rights. Thus the less they talk about it, the better off they can get away with it. One day though, they might push a legit site with some money to burn, and see them in court over it. Until then however, VB can do what they want.
Their overall actions however, are VERY shady... as that link points out.
Also all the sites in question, DO NOT use VB anymore... so I'm not quite understanding what you mean by Jelsoft's "good graces" in the reply. They can't sue someone over having content from a third party that's not affiliated to them (legal or otherwise): that's overstepping on a grand scale. They revoke based on their agreement - and specifically call on "moral differences" - an ambiguous term if any.
Again: it's up to you to look further and make an opinion off the whole issue - but please don't base it off one site that's obviously not so holy in of itself (relatively speaking). That's what VB would want you to do.
PLEASE don't leave the default icon!
Please put names on the the left... not on the top!
Please make the CoH theme(icons especially) available right away!
Thank you!
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Their overall actions however, are VERY shady... as that link points out.
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Color me unconcerned.
It's clear that the site in question was, well, questionable. CoH is certainly more legitimate than the site sited in that article.
But back on topic:
There seem to be a lot of people concerned about posts, or even post counts and ratings. The vB software was chosen because, not only does it work with NCSoft's authentication servers, but it will also allow porting of the current database. Once there, they can enable or disable features as they choose, such as post count, thread ratings, etc.
As for me, I could go either way re: things like post count. Heck, I sometimes use reg dates as a rough guess to see who newer posters are (and give them slack if they're posting something ad nausium such as Power Customization, for example). But others can use reg dates and post count as an attempt to prop up their credentials (or just plain laud their count over others), so there's the two sides of that coin. Doing away with post count would certainly make many forum games trivial.
I can go either way, so I'll abstain my "vote" in the matter. Suffice to say, the new software will be able to support many things that the current software does and then some, AFAIK. And we chouldn't loose any posts, active accounts, or forum names in the process.
Now where's that beta test?
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Color me unconcerned.
It's clear that the site in question was, well, questionable. CoH is certainly more legitimate than the site sited in that article.
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Again: that was NOT the only site. That's just the most popular when you do a search. There are several legit sites that were denied. It actually helps VB that a blacklist gets top billing, than something law abiding... a sad situation, because people only look at the blacklisted site as a negative, and not the censorship reason. It's adult content that gets revocation. Naturally CoH is not in danger, but I'd just like to get the record straight. And while there are some who really don't give a care, there are some who might. Nothing wrong with spreading the word or voicing one's opinion against censorship.
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It's adult content that gets revocation.
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So if I write some software and sell it, but don't want people to use it for content that users should be 18+ to view, I don't have a right to revoke my software from those users?
There is absolutely no way to prove someone's age online. I don't blame vB at all for not wanting their name on something rated X that minors could be viewing. I wouldn't want my name anywhere near there.
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So if I write some software and sell it, but don't want people to use it for content that users should be 18+ to view, I don't have a right to revoke my software from those users?
There is absolutely no way to prove someone's age online. I don't blame vB at all for not wanting their name on something rated X that minors could be viewing. I wouldn't want my name anywhere near there.
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To be honest, what you're asking an answer for is being fought in courts over other items. While you're only looking at it from the standpoint of adult material, it's the precedence of the entire situation that's really at hand. Why just stop at adult material? Why not claim VB can't be used by Catholic sites? Scientologists? Orphanages? Countries? Ethnicity? Yea... going extreme there - but I'm hoping you get the idea. It's a massive issue dealing with moral liability and rights infringement from all sorts of angles, which can be argued from an equal number of directions.
By the letter of the law, its actually fine and dandy to discriminate "end users" so long as you outline it in your agreement (within some obviously common sense reasoning). However even software user agreements have been a focus in court battles... they're numbers are only sure to grow. Yet in the case of VB, there isn't a disclaimer outlining that you can't use it for hosting adult material, and when you receive the cease and desist letter, your payment is not refunded. As one can imagine, that's already a frowned matter (just apply it to something else).
So yea... its really a big 'ole nasty mess, that's going to get sorted out sooner or later. But given there are larger legal matters being pressed in the superior and supreme courts - not to mention no one has seriously has challenged VB in court about it (yet at least) - its mostly a "nerdrage" issue. Doesn't mean there isn't a problem... or that it won't get legally addressed at some point.
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Is vBulletin the same thing that the XBox forums uses? If so, count me as a "no". That thing is hella slow.
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Just FYI on this, vBulletin is not the same thing - those guys use something called Community Server.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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Hmmm...I was under the impression that the boards and site were running on the expression engine platform...
edit: nvm i seen the bottom "powered by UBB.threads"
which makes me ask is the site in EE? or just the Euro COH site? Just curious as im a web designer
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I'm pretty sure they're all in Austin. On the same machine. A Commodore.
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The EU CoH website uses the Expression Engine, but not for forum software.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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Well considering there are some people I've dealt with on many message boards over the years that have the attitude;
"I have a bigger post count then you, therefore your opinion doesn't mean a thing", I'd prefer no post counts and no stupid stars or any other rating system at all.
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Holy cow, sign me up for that. No more post counts! Shoot, I'd cheer for doing away with registration date, too! (Stars, meh, I can take 'em or leave 'em.)
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I'd prefer they be kept. Yes, I know some people like to think they're special because they have lots of posts and I don't care. I have a lot and that doesn't make me any better than anyone else. HOWEVER, I do use the reg date and post count to help me determine how much information I give someone who asks questions. If the question comes from someone with a low post count and a recent reg date, I will take care to spell things out before I simply use acronyms and will be more likely to spend more time responding. I will also link to specific things or provide more detail on finding the info instead of assuming the person will be able to find it on his or her own.
If someone ask a question and has been registrered for over a year and has a few posts to his or her name, I may have a shorter answer and will more likely use abbreviations instead of spelling everything out.
Ex: Someone asks how to get to Zone X, which was added with the last update. If the person has an old reg date and more than a few dozen posts (arbitrary number, I may also check posting history to see if they were all posted in the last 3 days), I might say something like "Take the PI Ferry or an SG teleporter." If someone has a new reg date and 2 posts, I might say, "Go to Talos Island and look for the Peregrine Island Ferry, marked on your map with an F. There are two ferry boats, so make sure you check for the Peregrine Island one. Peregrine Island (PI) is a level 40-50 zone, so be careful if you are low level. If you are in a Supergroup, check to see if the group has a teleporter that goes to the new zone."
It's possible that the person with a recent reg date and one post has played for years, but I'm better off assuming that person needs more information than less.
I view a low post count/recent reg date as someone who wears an "I'm in training" badge at store or restaurant and it's very helpful to me.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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I've seen the behavior I've cited on many boards over the years. While I dont beleive for a second that the removal of post counts/reg dates will STOP the behavior you describe I do believe that every little bit helps.
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I've seen it other places, but not so much here. The only thing people with 2004 or early 2005 reg dates are likely to do is dredge up ED, GDN, agro caps, etc... and how different things used to be.
Around here it's more like the old guy saying "In my day, we walked uphill to school in the snow... both ways!"
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Will the old post counts be carried over? Or will we all start from 0?
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Or will we not count at all?
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Well considering there are some people I've dealt with on many message boards over the years that have the attitude;
"I have a bigger post count then you, therefore your opinion doesn't mean a thing", I'd prefer no post counts and no stupid stars or any other rating system at all.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.