Looks like they finally put up an update and some artwork on the MMOArt website
I'm wondering why there are artists in MMOART.com's employ that are going uncredited. For example, the artist of the "The Sick and the Dead" piece (who is simply referred to as "the studio cartoonist") and the artist of the "Lethe" rough. I notice Kindred's name on all of his pieces, but art by anyone else has no signature, just the MMOART.com logo. I can't find anything on the website about the other artists either. It also makes me wonder what/who else is going uncredited.
It's very important for artists to be credited for their work and very disrespectful (to put it mildly) to deny them that right.
I know some people are pretty opinionated on forums and such but I think it would be best keep the sharp criticism off of these forums. No one wants to see this devolve into a flame fest. It'd be better to ask these questions directly of Jomaro via email if you have concerns.
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I'm wondering why there are artists in MMOART.com's employ that are going uncredited. For example, the artist of the "The Sick and the Dead" piece (who is simply referred to as "the studio cartoonist") and the artist of the "Lethe" rough. I notice Kindred's name on all of his pieces, but art by anyone else has no signature, just the MMOART.com logo. I can't find anything on the website about the other artists either. It also makes me wonder what/who else is going uncredited.
It's very important for artists to be credited for their work and very disrespectful (to put it mildly) to deny them that right.
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He has an artist under contract. Not sure if that contract has asserted copyright (basically the artist would be doing 'for-hire' and may or may not be allowed to sign the work.) That, you would have to ask Jomaro about.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
I will send an e-mail to MMOART.com. And honestly, I don't understand why anyone would sign a contract to do uncredited work for a website. They can just as easily take the commissions on themselves and retain full rights to their art. MMOART.com isn't providing some type of resource or publishing medium that is unattainable to the average person.
There's a number of reasons as to why that may happen. Maybe the other artist wants to remain anonymous because of relationships with major publishing companies. Or maybe they get a bigger percentage fee for the work. There's alot of stuff you have to manage though taking commissions: Managing money. Shipping art. communicating with members who need stuff change. Alot of that's a hassle to deal with when they can spend more time just drawing. So having an agent or a studio handle the adminstrating stuff may not be such a bad idea.
Example: An artist is hired by Disney to produce a movie poster. Disney retains the copyright to the characters AND the movie, and because the artist is paid 'for hire' they are not allowed to reproduce the work for profit or claim it as their own work without Disney's sign-off.
Example two: A private buyer commissions an artist to produce a work. The artist is not constrained from signing the work as their own - in fact, the commissioning party prefers that they do, for the name recognition as well as authenticity.
In both cases, the artist is compensated for the work, but only one allows them to 'claim' it as their own.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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Looks like they finally put up an update and some artwork on the MMOArt website
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hahaha - did I call it, or what??
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yet with all of this... for some reason I half expect to see something amazing posted within a day - for some reason it always seems to flow that way.
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I know some people are pretty opinionated on forums and such but I think it would be best keep the sharp criticism off of these forums. No one wants to see this devolve into a flame fest. It'd be better to ask these questions directly of Jomaro via email if you have concerns.
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What would you recommned in TA's case? He's stated that he's owed pieces or money... with little rply from MMOART - should he not post about his experiences here?
It's tough, becuase on the one hand I don't want to see a crack down on commissions and such. But on the other hand, I'm a big proponent of customer rights.
I'm really not sure what's right in this case.
Actually, making some comments here every now and then seems to be helpful. Stuff seems to come along right after. Maybe its a good reminder?
Well, I think by now we've established that it would be pretty risky to deal with MMOArt.com right now. To the point where I don't think anyone who happens on this thread would still commission them for work.
I understand the frustration, especially TA's. But I'm not sure this is the best place to raise those types of concerns. It could cause moderators to step in and NCSoft might lay down some ground rules that none of us would like.
(wow, these forums are finicky tonight)
New Art from MMOART.com
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Greetings everyone and Happy Holidays! Now that our move and brief 'turkey vacation' are out of the way, we can get back to more artwork! Today we release a massive action scene featuring The Gallant Knights of Divinity vs. Infernal!! And the completed version of CoH's Parzifal, the invincible knight!!
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New Art from MMOART.com
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Greetings everyone and Happy Holidays! Now that our move and brief 'turkey vacation' are out of the way, we can get back to more artwork! Today we release a massive action scene featuring The Gallant Knights of Divinity vs. Infernal!! And the completed version of CoH's Parzifal, the invincible knight!!
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You know, I'm always a fan of Gill's stuff - he's one of my favorites and I wish he still posted on DA.
But A_M, I've gotta' ask... why does it seem like you're working for MMOART? I want to say this in a way that's non-confrontational - because I really do think Gill's art is awesome - so I understand being a fan of him... I really do.
Are you in contact with him as an arrangement... or just a fan posting up his work?
((and you don't have to answer that man... I'm just curious. On this board it seems like there are those that attack him, and those that are on his side... and they all seem to have their reasons. But I'm curious, because Gill no longer posts here, really what is going on with him sometimes))
Umm where'd that come from?
Well you are posting updates from their site. I'm curious as to why as well. The folks in this thread are checking that site out daily for news regarding their commissions as Jomaro or Lush haven't been in contact.
I'm posting updates in a thread that Gill started for posting updates. You'll forgive me if I don't understand what the issue is exactly.
I've been posting updates from MMOART site for a long while and no one had an issue with it, so why is it suddenly a focus of curiousity now?
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I'm posting updates in a thread that Gill started for posting updates. You'll forgive me if I don't understand what the issue is exactly.
I've been posting updates from MMOART site for a long while and no one had an issue with it, so why is it suddenly a focus of curiousity now?
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Actually, truth be told, I've always kind of wondered.
I mean, there are a lot of artists on here posting up their art and sites... and there are a lot of people posting up art they've had done, but it's not too often that someone will consistently post up art from other artists that they are just fans of. Usually, if people post pics from an artist, they have some connection to them (I think that someone usually posts for Graver here but can't seem to think of the user right now).
My point was not whether or not you should... or even if it's odd to or not.. I was simply wondering (like many who have posted on this thread and the one before it about MMOART) what is going on.
I'm very sorry if this came off accusatory, but with how many times MMOART has disappeared in the past, I don't think it's totally out of line to ask if people know what's going on.
A few posts ago TA (a long standing member of this forum) posted continuing troubles with MMOART... and I had thought that all of that had went away with the 're-boot' - apparently it hasn't.
So, I'm going to say this again, just in case it was in any way unclear - if you're close to GILl and MMOART, I was simply wondering if you knew what was going on.
I hope that sounds reasonable to you.
*mind starts to shut down to drama*
I want to voice, I appreciate the updates that Alty makes, cause I'm too lazy to go to the site unless it's posted in a forum. I've always thought he was just a really good fan and wanted us to see all the new peices.
As for the troubles that Jomaro (did I get that right?) is he works really hard, then some of the business stuff starts to slip, either he can't keep up or he simply forgets, or RL gets in the way. Then the drama builds, and I know if I had that much pressure behind me I'd want to run and hide too. I'm just glad he makes an effort to come back and continue to create wonderous work, I'd like to give him props for 'getting back into the game' and willingness to make amends.
I admit, if I knew what was going on I would try to be more understanding of his delays, but I don't want to pry into his RL or pressure him any further for being swamped.
If he was here I'd just give hime a big ol' hug, but I'll give it to Alty and maybe she can take it to him when she goes over there to bring us another update. *hugs Alty*
Alty's a friend of Gill and Lush, I think.
Just as Starchasm is Graver's housemate.
I think that about covers that. Next question?
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
^^ Nope, that about does it. If I A_M is Gill's r/l life friend, then it makes sense that he (or she) would support him.
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hahaha - did I call it, or what??
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lmao!!!!!!!!!!! You soooo did Juggy!
This whole thing seriously gets me down. When Celtic Bolt drew that first piece of art for me of TA I was immediately hooked. My whole goal had been to get art in the forums going. The benefit out of all of this was that artists could get paid for doing something that they loved to do while us art appreciators could benefit from seeing our characters immortalized in the process.
When I first approached Jomaro about a piece i found that he was awesome to work with, great guy with a great business ethic and he was about to open up MMOart. I was astonished when i got that first piece from him called Coming Home and instantly knew i wanted more. When MMOart.com launched i got involved in every way i could to promote them up and get them work. I was totally enrolled in the quality,work ethic, speed and vision that Jomaro and his wife had created. Over that time i commissioned quite a bit of art from MMOart. I paid in full for the pieces because i had no doubt that i would get the work and be amazed by it. The price vs quality and speed seemed a great fit for me and i had no problem waiting it out. While the business was booming and expanding by leaps and bounds seemingly every week (5 websites, interviews with MMO sites, games, growing queue, etc etc..) I promoted the site to the hilt. I even went as far as having an avatar made up to help promote them. I listed them in my signature with a link to the site. I was even put in their site as a member of their staff at one point.
Throughout all this i got another piece done that i can't post here or anywhere lol. I got alot of sketches done up of pieces that i was to have him do. The detailed ones i paid for and he actually did a couple and didn't charge me. But there was still the major pieces out there that i had paid for that had yet to be done. So i was patient and kept with the knowledge that he would get to them. Then i don't know what happened, he started falling behind when he had that injury and never recovered from the hit to the company. I lost contact with the company and have struggled to get any update since. I should note that through all of this i pointed 12 people toward MMOart for commissions and the majority of them are still waiting on art themselves. To which i can't apologize enough 
.
So after all this time, 3 plus years i still have 3 pieces of art due that i paid in full for all that time ago. This isn't meant to be a flamed post. Just info and clarity for the situation. Jomaro and Lush are indeed great people and i still call them both friends. I think he does awesome work and i love seeing every piece that comes out from MMOart but business wise i have a problem with them. I think the business just got away from them. I have repeatedly offered (even up to a month ago during the latest 'reboot') to help them with the contact and business end in any way i could but was turned down every time. I don't know how else i can support,help or promote them. I have honestly tried everything and i am at a loss.
I know Alty has done everything i have to help MMOart as well. She was a part of the staff just like me and she is a friend to Joe and Lush just like i am. She loves MMOart just as much as me and she is just trying to show everyone that he's still up and running. MMOart owes her a great deal for her contributions to be sure. *hugs Alty* I miss you btw, I have not got the chance to talk to you in a long long time!!
So to finish, it's really diminished my whole idea of getting art out there by creating relationships between artists and art appreciators. Just my view on it all and as i told Juggy, i don't know that i will ever return to collecting even if i become a millionaire tomorrow. It's because of this situation. That and their are 14 other artists out there that still owe me art. I just don't feel like i can trust the exchange anymore. There are of course exceptions to every rule (Juggy,BW,Alex,LJ,CB,Doug,SyrusB and a whole list of others). However when you go through what i have gone through with MMOart it leaves a very bitter taste in your mouth about it all! I truly wish them nothing but the best in whatever they do and for all intensive purposes i have written the pieces off as a loss because i do not believe i will ever see them completed.
TA
It is very difficult for an artist to constantly be motivated, even when hey are at the top of their game. It is very LONELY work, and while he may have a partner in life, that partner is not "doing" the art along side him. In a perfect world, the artist will continually put out work and never change, never burn out, never want to do work other than what the fans or excuse me clients demand.
I can't speculate on Jomaro, but I can understand that if he's behind, the end doesn't get any closer, no matter how much you want it to... the art has to be done, plain and simple, and that will sometimes sit in limbo for a variety of reasons. My main work stop is my wife, I cannot function if there is something wrong between us... thankfully that is few and far between. Regardless of the reason, motivation is something that can't be turned on at the flip of a switch...
I wish him luck with the monumental task he is undertaking, and to all of the clients, I empathize with your frustration. I have days where I wish my queue would disappear, but "this is the business we have chosen", so I try to re-motivate myself, and hope the guilt will somehow get less and less with each pencil stroke... okay back to work!
LJ
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It is very difficult for an artist to constantly be motivated, even when hey are at the top of their game. It is very LONELY work, and while he may have a partner in life, that partner is not "doing" the art along side him. In a perfect world, the artist will continually put out work and never change, never burn out, never want to do work other than what the fans or excuse me clients demand.
I can't speculate on Jomaro, but I can understand that if he's behind, the end doesn't get any closer, no matter how much you want it to... the art has to be done, plain and simple, and that will sometimes sit in limbo for a variety of reasons. My main work stop is my wife, I cannot function if there is something wrong between us... thankfully that is few and far between. Regardless of the reason, motivation is something that can't be turned on at the flip of a switch...
I wish him luck with the monumental task he is undertaking, and to all of the clients, I empathize with your frustration. I have days where I wish my queue would disappear, but "this is the business we have chosen", so I try to re-motivate myself, and hope the guilt will somehow get less and less with each pencil stroke... okay back to work!
LJ
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Trust me bro i get that, i really do. That is why i have been this patient for this long when it comes to this particular situation. I've grown up alongside my mother who was an artist and i saw what it took to be motivated. She loved it, wasn't getting paid for it and yet it still took something for her to get motivated. My Ex was a multimedia artist and did get paid for a lot of her projects and it took something to get motivated. I've been around art for most of my life so i know how it goes.
The place i go to is watching all the clients that came wayyyy after me on the list, watching their art get done and yet mine is still in limbo with no communication. It's frustrating to say the least. It's not even like i won a contest for it. I paid up front in full for the pieces long before most everyone (if not everyone) on that list and i am still waiting.
I'm a patient guy as a rule and i think a lot of the artists here can vouch for that. It's getting a bit ridiculous after 3 plus years though, don't you agree?
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^^ Nope, that about does it. If I A_M is Gill's r/l life friend, then it makes sense that he (or she) would support him.
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...so if I wasn't an RL friend, that wouldn't make sense?
The question that bothered me in this line of inquiry is why does anyone need to know what my personal connection/friendship with MMOART is? It isn't anyone's business but my own. A fan posting an updated shouldn't raise any more eyebrows than if I was an RL friend.
Frankly the whole "I'm curious" just smacks of being nosy and while you might not have meant it that way, that's how it came off. Whatever troubles folks are have with MMOART that is something that has to be taken up with the owners. I have no more avenues of communication with them than anyone else. I send emails just like everyone else does.
I'm about the artwork...I post because other folks want to see artwork, in this artwork forum....and that's the bottom line.
/e thinks about comissioning MMOART, for more kitty-tude =^.^=
I've drawn up some of my felines
and to apease the Wassy
Gata's kitties