Looking good so far. Theres the Corruptor and MM /traps issue but I admit thats most likely pretty minor compared to the other issues.
I'll bite, contacts that suck up to you, or are terrified of you or even contacts that end with you betraying them. If possible put them in existing or new zones.
Also, add those zones in where the game starts to drop off a bit. Could make the zones very thematic and less dystopia cities? (like ghost towns or mystic places that are more BP and Legacy chain related?)
-An explanation of Lord Recluse's vision for the Rogue Isles early in the game. I don't think we should have to wait until the video screen at Grandville to learn that his master plan is... screw it, that he has a master plan at all.
One major problem was the way the story was written in the RWZ. Maybe a way that both Heroes and Villains can be in the same zone, yet have a more neutral standpoint... or Hell, even coding to say different things to different factions! With the new staff, it could be done.
Just some way where we're not treated like heroic sidekicks.
Need to feel more villainous. Like maybe a couple of missions where instead of you going somewhere and beating people who are waiting for you, you wait somewhere as waves of Longbow or some other hero faction attack, then eventually some heroes come in and attempt to fight you.
Branching, choose-your-own-adventure style story arcs have been suggested many times. If even a few of these are made, it would alleviate most of the complaints about plot railroading.
[ QUOTE ]
Hello villains! Inspired by this thread I've made a preliminary list of things that we think are needed villainside. Lets keep things calm and make a list for the Devs.
Civilized List Villain Issues, 3rd Draft
(I don't PvP so I won't even address that. Someone more qualified can tackle that can 'o worms)
<ul type="square">[*]Patron Pools: Functionally and aesthetically they are vastly inferior to Hero APPs. (Suggestion: Add APPs for villains, ie you do your patron arc and get their pool (which you are locked into as usual) BUT you also get access to other APPs similar to the Heroes.)
[*]Stalker Teaming Issues: Stalkers need a buff to PvE team survivability and usefulness. (See stalker forums for some good suggestions)
[*]Strike Force Gap: Villains are lacking SFs in the 10-15, 30-35, and 40-45 level ranges. Also, the Silver Mantis SF should be made accessible to those without VGs or those in small VGs.
[*]Lack of Trials: Villains only have the three respec trials, heroes have the three respec trials plus the Eden and Sewer trials.
[*]Lord Recluse Strike Force: Generally accepted that it needs reworking to be more friendly to a wider team variety.
[*]Mercy and Port Oakes: These zones represent about 1/3 of the zones in CoV, yet the average character spends very little time in them. (Suggestion: Expand the zones with some high level content. Possibly a push to rebuild Mercy and the Rocket in PO. This serves to provide alternate leveling routes for villains and if organized correctly could turn create a more universall meeting place that CoV lacks)
Edit to include Dark_Mystic and Cheita's ideas[*]General Zone Performance: Get rid of the extra geometry in the zones! Grandville is particularly bad, but PO and Sharkhead have issues as well.
[*]Secret Contacts: Many players are completely oblivious to these gems (Doc Buzzsaw or Veridian anyone?). (Suggestion: Have the contacts send a message via the newspaper when you unlock them. Also, extend their level ranges to provide more leeway for getting the badges)
[*]Black Helicopters: Many Black Helicopters are parked right next to the ferries. They should be parked at the opposite ends of zones for ease of use (ie Near Thorn Isle)
[*]Grandville Elevators are not marked on the map
[*]Enemy Variety: Why do the Legacy Chain and Wyvern drop off the radar at level 25? Longbow is already too prevalent, lets change it up. Same goes for Arachnos.[/list]
What does everyone think? Any other issues to add? Anything that I put on the list that doesn't belong?
[/ QUOTE ]
Now this helps, marked as saved.
Ex
Don't forget about the absurdity of the villain Accolades. Half of them you can't get until you're in the 40s.
Plus the one that requires you to spend 5 hours in Siren's Call?? What the frell is up with that??
Also, some of the requirements for the hidden contacts just don't make sense. They seem like the devs just picked random badges out of a hat for some of them.
The best example that comes to mind is Doc Buzzsaw. I have yet to manage to get a character the Bling badge before I outlevel her missions. Not only does it not make sense to be her requirement, but it is even a resonable requirement anymore, what with the xp increase?? And by "reasonable", I mean without having to drastically slow down my leveling, by either racking up massive debt, or running a ton of missions while malefactored.
Some of the other ones are ridiculous as well. Hammer Down for Crimson Revenant and Thorn Robber/Thief for Arbiter Leery seem ridiculously excessive. Native for Ambassador Kuhr'Rekt is a joke.
There's also the whole Black Market thing, although there's not really a whole lot the Devs can do about that.
And I've said it before, but CoV lacks a feeling of... independance. There's very few points in the game where you aren't treated like someone else's underling.
Two wrongs don't make a right. However, three rights make a left.
L00k, w3'r3 r3f0rmed! W3'v3 g0t l1v3s n0w, 4nd 1'm 4 buz1n3ss Pwnz0r! -Reformed Freak Proprieter
Seek. Find. Rularuu.
Target. Destroy. Rularuu.
Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls. Rularuu.
Awww, thanks Ex. I feel special now!
Couple of things I can think of, to improve upon the suggestions:
1) For the SF Gap: Additional 40-50 SFs, ala the shard TFs. Just no where near as nasty. There are already badges in place for SFs led by the patron leaders. (main example: the bugged 'master of the scorpion clan' badge) Also, The LRSF badge has a number 3, so expand on that numbering system. I think Master of the Scorpion Clan badge is a 5.
2. The Black Helicopters: The first ones only connect cap and mercy, then there's additional ones that only connect nerva and I think st. mart. What about connecting those two, but have it as part of some sort of unlocking, like the mole point in the Cascades, blue side? You physically have to talk to the pilot of the helicopter in each zone so that you can use that copter and fly to that zone from the others. (example: I talk to the guy in mercy and cap. now i can fly between mercy and cap. i go talk to the guy in st. mart, then i can fly between mercy, cap, and st. mart)
3. The secret contacts: what about having current, 'normal' contacts have some sort of fedex or chain mission involving the secret contacts? It's already ingame with I believe it's Maros in Shark. He has a 2 part mission, the first of which sends you to the secret contact Tarixus. From there, you have a kill all iirc. Point is, for those who didn't know Tarixus was there, you've been sent to him, and once you did the fedex bit, you could talk to him again and see that he was a secret contact with requirements.
4) I was thinking about a self-contained zone or two. I know that more zones is not necessarily a good thing, and that there isn't a large population to begin with, but the overall sweeping story (ala hollows, croatoa), and additional content for those ranges.
@Death Conqueror
-Goal for 2011: Survive, stay alive, and continue to thrive.
[ QUOTE ]
One major problem was the way the story was written in the RWZ. Maybe a way that both Heroes and Villains can be in the same zone, yet have a more neutral standpoint... or Hell, even coding to say different things to different factions! With the new staff, it could be done.
Just some way where we're not treated like heroic sidekicks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Excuse me, what?
My heroes work their butts off helping Longbow only to have to fight them in the RWZ. You'd think I'd be a freaking idol in their organization.
You have this one backwards.
This is a recopy of what I put int eh Villain Zones thread in suggestions but I think I should add it here, since it seems everyone overlooked it to continue the back and forth bickering there.
Well there are several things villains do need, as it is easily seeable that villains still are not up to where heroes are, and parity is still needed for those things that are lacking.
<ul type="square">[*]Parity for the Hero Revamps
It sould of been done when the changes were/are being made to update those unused zones, but whether because of lack of resources, time, or foresight, they haven't. When the hero zone revamps were being designed, villain equivalent content should be added to tell the villain side of the story, either in one or two new contacts, or a complete Strike Force. I would prefer Strike Forces, since that would kill several birds with one stone; Filling in the Strike Force holes we have, parity with the new story or zone updates, letting villains affect Paragon City, ect.
For the Faultline revamp, I would of had Arbiter Sands added as a Strike Force contact in the 20 to 25 range, to parity the upper level range of Faultline. This would tell the story of what Sands is really trying to do, and let the villains try to get the PCM for themselves, or whoever.
For the now Hollows revamp, though minor, I would add a 10 to 15 Strike Force contact in Port Oakes dealing with instigating the war between the Outcasts and Trolls, as well as several other things. This would help fix the problem of getting the troll and outcast badge for starters and also introduce villains to Strike Force content sooner, like for heroes. The contact could be one of the Family, trying to keep the war going so they can keep pushing their Dyne and weapons on both the Outcasts and the Trolls since it is big bucks and the heroes are interfering with that.[/list]
<ul type="square">[*]Zone Parity
This will require a bit more work, and it's something I would only expect to happen gradually. Zone parity for Striga and Croatoa, Croatoa being an excellent source of lower level magic salvage, something villains lack. Considering the also exceptionally difficult task of getting red caps badge, which is required if you want the red caps dagger, villains have to wait for either the Winter Event, which is a very long time, or hope someone has the valentines event and is willing to suffer constant mission resets with that, which both are, quite frankly, unnacceptable. Since we still have four islands that are unused and uncharted, one of those could be opened up for this, complete with missions and strike force content.
A parity of Striga zone, a villain version, would also be nice. Considering Striga's relative distance from Paragon, and it's in international waters, American law would basically have n sway over it anyways, as Striga is pretty much isolated. Giving Council contacts to help the Council succeed, going against all the hero contacts would be a good start, with possibly one of the top Council guys handing out a Strike Force to help insure Burkholder's robot see's completion.
Then comes the Shadow Shard, which is for all points of fact, should be aco-op zone, since Rularuu presents a bigger threat than even the Rikti present, since Rularuu is City of's version of Galactus, except he devours whole dimensions, not worlds.[/list]
<ul type="square">[*]Villain Zone Setup and Aesthetics
I dunno why it was decided, I can understand small portions, but every single section of each island? Clean up some of the villain zone areas. Not every place should be dirty and in ill-repair. The beach along the north end of Villa Montrose? I doubt the Family or Mooks would care if there is fighting going on between them. They wouldn't let a tourist trap and a source of funds go into disrepair like that.
Grandville needs a complete rework, I think the devs admitted that much, but finding the time to do it is another problem.
Another point of contention on villain aesthetics are the fact that all villain stores and trainers are Arachnos. Get rid of them. Put in real villain trainers, ones with faces and names, and move the origin stores into buildings with real sellers and faces, helping with the pleasing sense, and also to avoid being griefed while shopping. I can't even begin to say how many times I got griefed going to the magic or mutant store in Sharkhead while shopping because someone thought it was cute to lure the warwolves over to me. Arachnos should only run generic stores, just like Longbow does for heroes, and certain villains should be trainers, like Olivia Darque, High Roller, and the like, it makes the game feel more alive and less impersonal when you got a face you can go to. Arachnos tries to put up a face, it doesn't help their face when their operatives can physically be seen training villains, so instead having real villain faces would not only help make the game more immersive, it makes the face Arachnos tries to put up more believable.
This also applies to the respec trainer in Nerva. Move him into the coffee shop as well, because many people have died trying to respec because he is right there next to a bunch of large spawns.
And speaking of in doors, put some of the brokers in doors to, to give more life to the isles. Brokers like Drea the Hook should be inside places like Blackbeard's Pub. We should be making shadey deals in dark bars and such, not out in the open where any two-bit hero or Longbow agent can see us.[/list]
<ul type="square">[*]The Black Helicopter Line and Others
Great idea, at first, but with one major problem. Their placement being so close to the ferries make them useless for starters. What's the point in having them at all if you can just use the boat, with more zone choices, right next to them? The Black Helicopter Line should be moved away from the Ferry and offer zone choices from differing zones from the Ferry, and also help in getting to different points in especially larger zones.
For instance, in Nerva, the Black Helicopter should be placed towards the northern end of the zone, near Primeva somewhere, which would fit much better than it being in the south near the Ferry, considering the Arachnos soldiers on Primeva. The Grandville Line should be towards the northern end as well, and St. Martial one should be in the Flop. All the Black Helicopter Lines should be connected, so one can jump a copter to go to Mercy, Cap, Grandville, Nerva, or Martial. It makes little sense for them to be there otherwise.
Also on a point of contention, the tunnel between Cap and Oakes needs to be opened up and aesthetics of the cars driving through should be added. I see little reason the tunnel is closed and it would add another go to point for villains and make the islands feel more alive.[/list]
I'm liking number 3.
[ QUOTE ]
-An explanation of Lord Recluse's vision for the Rogue Isles early in the game. I don't think we should have to wait until the video screen at Grandville to learn that his master plan is... screw it, that he has a master plan at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Considering he used to be the muscle, he's got the laziest plans I've ever heard of.
Step One:
Fortunate: There is a Villain in the Zig who is destined to have the power to take down Statesman!
Recluse: Excellent! Let's get a jail break together, whoever it is can take him out for me!
(forty levels later)
Step Two:
Recluse: Damn. That Destined guy still hasn't taken out that hero. Well, we have that new time stuff. I'll send whoever is left from that breakout into the future, so they can fix it so no matter what I do, I WIN!
(five MORE levels later)
Step Three:
Recluse: What does it take to motivate some scum around here? You! Grab seven of your friends. I'm dropping you in Paragon City, where you face the entire Phalanx at once! And dont' come back until you WIN!
Villain: *ulp*
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Updated
Civilized List Villain Issues, 4th Draft
<ul type="square">[*]Patron Pools: Functionally and aesthetically they are vastly inferior to Hero APPs. (Suggestion: Add APPs for villains, ie you do your patron arc and get their pool (which you are locked into as usual) BUT you also get access to other APPs similar to the Heroes.)
[*]Stalker Teaming Issues: Stalkers need a buff to PvE team survivability and usefulness. (See stalker forums for some good suggestions)
[*]Strike Force Gap: Villains are lacking SFs in the 10-15, 30-35, and 40-45 level ranges. Also, the Silver Mantis SF should be made accessible to those without VGs or those in small VGs.
[*]Lack of Trials: Villains only have the three respec trials, heroes have the three respec trials plus the Eden and Sewer trials.
[*]Lord Recluse Strike Force: Generally accepted that it needs reworking to be more friendly to a wider team variety.
[*]Mercy and Port Oakes: These zones represent about 1/3 of the zones in CoV, yet the average character spends very little time in them. (Suggestion: Expand the zones with some high level content. Possibly a push to rebuild Mercy and the Rocket in PO. This serves to provide alternate leveling routes for villains and if organized correctly could turn create a more universall meeting place that CoV lacks)
[*]General Zone Performance: Get rid of the extra geometry in the zones! Grandville is particularly bad, but PO and Sharkhead have issues as well.
[*]Secret Contacts: Many players are completely oblivious to these gems (Doc Buzzsaw or Veridian anyone?). (Suggestion: Have the contacts send a message via the newspaper when you unlock them. Also, extend their level ranges to provide more leeway for getting the badges)
[*]Black Helicopters: Many Black Helicopters are parked right next to the ferries. They should be parked at the opposite ends of zones for ease of use (ie Near Thorn Isle)
[*]Grandville Elevators are not marked on the map
[*]Enemy Variety: Why do the Legacy Chain and Wyvern drop off the radar at level 25? Longbow is already too prevalent, lets change it up. Same goes for Arachnos.
[*]Contacts: Many contacts treat the player as a mercenary. Some variety in the types of evil a character can partake in would be nice. (Suggestion: Contacts that are intimidated or coerced into working with the villain. Also more branching story arcs that allow the villain to choose how to react to a situation.)
[*]Villain Accolade Requirements: Remove/Replace all PvP badge requirements. Damage and Debt badge requirements in particular are set too high. Hero-Slayer requires 100 signature heroes, while the equivalent badge heroeside (Villain Disruptor) requires only 25. A re-evaluation of villain badge requirements would be nice (This also applies heroside for things like Illusionist)
[*]The Black Market: Detailed thread can be found in the market forum about this. Long story short, it's broke and needs fixing.
[/list]
I don't think we can really call the BM broke. Its the lesser pop on Villainside causing the disparity between the WW and BM.
[ QUOTE ][*]Black Helicopters: Many Black Helicopters are parked right next to the ferries.
[/ QUOTE ]
They're also not helicopters, which I've always found a little puzzling.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-An explanation of Lord Recluse's vision for the Rogue Isles early in the game. I don't think we should have to wait until the video screen at Grandville to learn that his master plan is... screw it, that he has a master plan at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Considering he used to be the muscle, he's got the laziest plans I've ever heard of.
Step One:
Fortunate: There is a Villain in the Zig who is destined to have the power to take down Statesman!
Recluse: Excellent! Let's get a jail break together, whoever it is can take him out for me!
(forty levels later)
Step Two:
Recluse: Damn. That Destined guy still hasn't taken out that hero. Well, we have that new time stuff. I'll send whoever is left from that breakout into the future, so they can fix it so no matter what I do, I WIN!
(five MORE levels later)
Step Three:
Recluse: What does it take to motivate some scum around here? You! Grab seven of your friends. I'm dropping you in Paragon City, where you face the entire Phalanx at once! And dont' come back until you WIN!
Villain: *ulp*
[/ QUOTE ]
I think an appreciation for Arachnos would increase exponentially if we knew more about them without scrounging the maps for plaques.
Nope, I'd still gut the grey ones on sight. I've had another of their bull for 5+ Villain 50s. ITS PAYBACK TIME!
Well... Less pop yes but also really hard to get some salvage at certain levels. Grandville is basically tech/magic, RWZ is tech and with the new i12 stuff we might finally see a magic zone, that should fix a LOT.
Oh, speaking of salvage, fix the people that don't make sense at low level... The legacy of Chain still drop tech and even the Luddites do too!
Updated to 4th draft.
Ex
[ QUOTE ]
Well... Less pop yes but also really hard to get some salvage at certain levels. Grandville is basically tech/magic, RWZ is tech and with the new i12 stuff we might finally see a magic zone, that should fix a LOT.
Oh, speaking of salvage, fix the people that don't make sense at low level... The legacy of Chain still drop tech and even the Luddites do too!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah legacy chain should drop magic but I'm not sure what the luddites should drop. They HATE tech but aren't really magical either... Maybe both?
I agree with the variety of Contacts. Have a set that is a sniveling toadie looking to ride out coat tails and another that fears us and gives us missions he thinks we'd want to do. Also, give some kind of clue in game as to the Hidden Contacts other then badges.
Also in very much support of the unique enemies having their stories extended. I loved the Legacy Chain and was so disappointed when they fell off and all I had was yet again CoT.
The rest of the list works with me.
I could agree on both, I mean they do try to sabotage Aeon Corp. so they could have tech on them at any time. But they're just too... I don't know, they just strike me as the type that should also have magic on them.
Edit because I hate wasted potential!: Up the levels of the Legacy chain, make them go to 50 and even have them change like the Circle does. Have holy warriors and water and other elemental mages. Heck you could give them shields and dual swords too and some mako style water blasts. They're the good guy version of the circle right? So why can't we see them more often then Longbow all the time.
Hello villains! Inspired by this thread I've made a preliminary list of things that we think are needed villainside. Lets keep things calm and make a list for the Devs.
Updated
Civilized List of Villain Issues, 6th Draft
Priority Issues
<ul type="square">[*]Patron Pools: Functionally and aesthetically they are vastly inferior to Hero APPs. (Suggestion: Add APPs for villains, ie you do your patron arc and get their pool (which you are locked into as usual) BUT you also get access to other APPs similar to the Heroes. Rebalance the APPs in general. Alternately, Make Patrons respec-able and add in pools for the Signature Lackeys)
[*]Stalker Teaming Issues: Stalkers need a buff to PvE team survivability and usefulness. (See stalker forums for some good suggestions)
[*]Strike Force Gap: Villains are lacking SFs in the 10-15, 30-35, and 40-45 level ranges. Also, the Silver Mantis SF should be made accessible to those without VGs or those in small VGs.
[*]Villain Accolade Requirements: Remove/Replace all PvP badge requirements. Damage and Debt badge requirements in particular are set too high. Hero-Slayer requires 100 signature heroes, while the equivalent badge heroeside (Villain Disruptor) requires only 25. A re-evaluation of villain badge requirements would be nice (This also applies heroside for things like Illusionist)
[*]Enemy Variety: Why do the Legacy Chain and Wyvern drop off the radar at level 25? Longbow is already too prevalent, lets change it up. Same goes for Arachnos. Also, Warden bosses don't get demoted to lieutenant when solo.
[*]The Black Market: Detailed thread can be found in the market forum about this. Long story short, it's broke and needs fixing[/list]
Quality of Life Issues
<ul type="square">[*]Lord Recluse Strike Force: Generally accepted that it needs reworking to be more friendly to a wider team variety. (Suggestion: Space the Freedom Phalanx further apart, so that pulling is easier. However, have the entire Phalanx aggro if Statesman is aggroed.)
[*]First Respec Trial: Many teams at the lower level requirement are not equipped to handle the number of vines and the ambushes. (Suggestion: Lower the number of vines and remove the ambushes)
[*]Grandville Elevators are not marked on the map
[*]Black Helicopters: Many Black Helicopters are parked right next to the ferries. They should be parked at the opposite ends of zones for ease of use (ie Near Thorn Isle)
[*]Mayhem Missions: Mayhem missions are far harder than Safeguards, although they are arguably more interesting as well. Reducing the size of the ambushes would go a long way towards making Mayhems more team friendly.
[*]Costume Pieces: Some way to unlock the Witch Hat and Task Force Commander costume pieces would be nice.[/list]
Major Bugs and Performance Issues
<ul type="square">[*]General Zone Performance: Get rid of the extra geometry in the zones! Grandville is particularly bad, but PO and Sharkhead have issues as well.
[*]Mastermind Pet AI: "Dumb as a post" is a good way to describe them, especially the melee pets. Attack cycling and range/melee behavior are the major complaints here.[/list]
Thematic and Content Issues
<ul type="square">[*]Theme and Atmosphere: Most of CoV is dark and gritty. While this is a nice change of pace from CoH it gets monotonous after 40+ levels. (Suggestion: Revamp some zones, or parts of zones, to get a different feel. If St. Martial is supposed to be a prosperous and popular tourist destination, it should look the part.)
[*]Mercy and Port Oakes: These zones represent about 1/3 of the zones in CoV, yet the average character spends very little time in them. (Suggestion: Expand the zones with some high level content (a la Seer Marino). This serves to provide alternate leveling routes for villains and ,if organized correctly, could turn create a more universal meeting place that CoV lacks)
[*]Secret Contacts: Many players are completely oblivious to these gems (Doc Buzzsaw or Veridian anyone?). (Suggestion: Have the contacts send a message via the newspaper when you unlock them. Also, extend their level ranges to provide more leeway for getting the badges. Remember, promoting the unlockable contacts is almost as good as adding new content.)
[*]Lack of Trials: Villains only have the three respec trials, heroes have the three respec trials plus the Hollows, Eden, and Sewer trials.
[*]Contacts: Most contacts treat the player as a mercenary. Some variety in the types of evil a character can partake in would be nice. (Suggestion: Contacts that are intimidated or coerced into working with the villain. Also more branching story arcs that allow the villain to choose how to react to a situation. More player directed evil is a good thing)[/list]
What does everyone think? Any other issues to add? Anything that I put on the list that doesn't belong?
Updated list, if you have links in reference to other threads please link up so I can ensure those threads are marked to save. Also my assistance in this thread does not guarantee that these changes will be implemented.