Villains! Lets make a list!


absentimental

 

Posted

The list pretty much gets all my major issues. I'd just like to state my opinion on a few of those issues in more detail.

We need APPs. Some people love PPPs, but most hate them. Make PPPs better if you can, but they should be seperate from APPs. APPs could use a few tweaks also, things like laser beam eyes in body mastery just seem silly and out of place.

We need some more SF plain and simple. If we had 2-3 more SF, I believe the BM issue would go away. There are enough people playing to keep up supply, we just need the tools to do so. Silver Mantis SF needs to be moved to Sharkhead and drop the whole VG requirement.

Villain side Trainers should be named NPCs like heroside. While Arachnos is the main theme in CoV, it gets to be over bearing. We need more interaction with other villains and not just Arachnos lackeys.


 

Posted

Well, you're right that I snagged the wrong mission info. However, it's still not part of his arc.

I've done this mission 8 times, Silver. Don't tell me it's part of an arc. It's not. I've verified it with multiple players, just on the off chance I was under the influence all eight times I've done it.

Defeat all Arachnos Personnel
Briefing

My source has been having Arachnos problems, and he wants a hurt put on 'em to show he means business. He found an Arachnos base in Paragon City. Go into the Arachnos base an take down everyone.

There's a ship at the docks in the Devil's Coat Tails here on Cap au Diable which is heading to Paragon City soon. Once you get to the mainland, head over to the building housing the hidden Arachnos base and lay waste!

Arachnos hideout in Paragon CityThis Arachnos base is well hidden in Paragon City's warehouse district

Mission Objective(s)
Defeat all Arachnos Personnel

Enemies
Arachnos

Notable NPCs
Wolf Spider Hunstman (Boss)
High Tech Machinery (Object)

Hitech Surveillance Device
It looks like this surveillance device was used by Arachnos for spying on hero activity within Paragon City.

Badge
Completion of this mission earns a villain the Paragon of Vice Badge.

Debriefing
Nice work! We better keep this quiet tho' - we don't want Arachnos huntin' us down for this.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Well, you're right that I snagged the wrong mission info. However, it's still not part of his arc.

I've done this mission 8 times, Silver. Don't tell me it's part of an arc. It's not. I've verified it with multiple players, just on the off chance I was under the influence all eight times I've done it.

[/ QUOTE ]Then I suggest you log in with me now, cause I will take you on that arc and show you it's apart of the arc set up. Cause I got the badge by doing flashback on my current brute.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, you're right that I snagged the wrong mission info. However, it's still not part of his arc.

I've done this mission 8 times, Silver. Don't tell me it's part of an arc. It's not. I've verified it with multiple players, just on the off chance I was under the influence all eight times I've done it.

[/ QUOTE ]Then I suggest you log in with me now, cause I will take you on that arc and show you it's apart of the arc set up. Cause I got the badge by doing flashback on my current brute.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then it's different in Flashback than it is in standard play. It's not part of the arc outside of Ouro.

Look carefully at the Wiki. It's not part of the arc there.

I'll take your word that it's part of the arc in Ouro. I've never bothered to do the arc there because I knew that's not where it was normally.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

And to be honest, Paragonwiki also contains alot of not 100% factual information and is written by players, who put their own spin and personal bias on things, with instances of devs able to corroborate the information. Obviously if Ouro is treating the badge mission as apart of the whole arc, then Paragonwiki is wrong in this instance, otherwise the badge mission would be seperate, however it is apart of the arc, since it deals with Wheeler being a sucker.

Another thing I can point out is the information about President Marchand in the Tesseract SF in Ouro. It says Marchand is an Elite Boss. This is incorrect. He is a special case Arch-villain, in this case he get's a special label called President. But like normal missions he get's lowered down to Elite Boss unless the mission parameters are relentless difficulty or the team is large enough.


 

Posted

Trust me, I'm only using PW as back up. It's not the basis for why I believe (non-Ouro) PoV is standalone.

As just one example, about two weeks ago I did that mission with a good buddy of mine, and then we started Willy's arc on the next mission.

And like I said, I checked with other badge hunters in global channels I hang in before I replied to you.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

<QR>

1. PPPs for Heroes and APPs for Villains, fairly similar to what the other sides have now.

2. A Task Force of any level that's both fairly quick and fun to run, so that people have something fast and playable to bring their 50s on (I'm talking at most a 45 minute playtime with a solid team, four or five missions)

3. Either adjusted drop rates or XP incentives to get more players to play villains. The villain economy cannot reach equilibrium because of constant supply shortages, so prices are higher on high-end goods than they are for heroes - which hurts doubly so given heroes' better earning potential with many TFs and heroes' year and a half head start on villains in the earning of inf.

That's my list.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Patron Pools: Functionally and aesthetically they are vastly inferior to Hero APPs. (Suggestion: Add APPs for villains, ie you do your patron arc and get their pool (which you are locked into as usual) BUT you also get access to other APPs similar to the Heroes. Rebalance the APPs in general. Alternately, Make Patrons respecable and add in pools for the Signature Lackeys)[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the big, killer "800 pound gorilla" for me.

My complaints about PPPs:

<ul type="square">[*] We are in fact not given enough information in-game to make a proper, rational and informed choice. Case in point: my Mastermind. The only thing he wanted out of the PPPs was an AoE immobilise that resisted knockback (because of the synergy that would generate, in light of his Assault Robot's incendiary-missile burn patches). None of the statues in Grandville indicate any suchproperty, so I had to guess ... and went with Black Scorpion, figuring "big ol' gluey web grenade deluxe, that probably has -KB in it". Turns out I was wrong ... it's Scirocco and Electric Cages that I should have taken. So much for that, eh? And now ... I can't respec out, and change my mind. I'm stuck like this. 8P
[*] The difference between patrons, aside from minor details (damage type mostly, but also the -KB debacle above), amounts to little more than "how does it animate". There is no qualitative difference between picking Ghost Widow, rather than Captian Mako, or Scirocco. For any given AT, the powers offered are pretty much the same four powers, reskinned.
[*] No respec allowed, and only those four to choose from. Shame on the devs for this, and for not offering multiple PPPs per patron, to each AT. Seriously ... why couldn't each patron offer two AT-specific pools to each archetype? Or better, offer two AT-specific pools, and one "generic" PPP? Doing that would have actually softened the blow of the "cut-and-paste-ism" just mentioned.
[*] Everyone gets a pet, except the pet class ...? Huh??[/list]
Let's see, next issue ...

[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Villain Accolade Requirements: Remove/Replace all PvP badge requirements. Damage and Debt badge requirements in particular are set too high. Hero-Slayer requires 100 signature heroes, while the equivalent badge heroeside (Villain Disruptor) requires only 25. A re-evaluation of villain badge requirements would be nice (This also applies heroside for things like Illusionist)[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, HELL yes!!

The only accolades that should have PvP requirements, should be PvP accolades, on BOTH sides of the factional divide. And in fact, the one in Siren's Call ... come on, five HOURS in the zone? That just strikes me as shamelessly punitive.

The different thresholds ... I honestly didn't realise, and I agree, that's grossly unfair. 25 victories if you're a hero, but four times as many if you're a villain? Yeesh.

[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Black Helicopters: Many Black Helicopters are parked right next to the ferries. They should be parked at the opposite ends of zones for ease of use (ie Near Thorn Isle)[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll go one further: why are there two separate Black Helicopter lines? Do you have any idea how much of a pain in the petard it is, to get between Mercy and Grandville? Yet, this past week, I've been doing Vernon von Grun's arc ... he's in Grandville. Many of the sites early int eh arc are in Mercy. The problem is ... many of the things you have to do for him, are in Grandville ... and the arc alternates between them: one in Mercy, then go talk to someone in Grandville, then back to Mercy for a door mission, then back to Grandville to talk to someone, etc, etc, etc. Gods that was frustrating - and I was burning Market teleports to get to CAD (for the ferry), then using the SG teleporters to get back to Mercy. For a villain not in a VG? Ugh.

Given you can take the black helicopter from Mercy to CAD, and then head for the water and swim all the way to the main inter-island ferry - or, even simpler, use your VG's teleporters, if you're in one - and get to Grandville as a lowbie ... I fail to see the point of making the sub-20 zones so hard to get to/from, for a higher-level character.

Heck, why not just put a minimum level requirement on the helicopters? Like, say, 20?

[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Enemy Variety: Why do the Legacy Chain and Wyvern drop off the radar at level 25? Longbow is already too prevalent, lets change it up. Same goes for Arachnos. Also, Warden bosses don't get demoted to lieutenant when solo.[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. Some higher-level Legacy and/or Wyvern - even if they get rare and infrequent in the higher levels - would be very nice indeed. More variety is good!

[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Mayhem Missions: Mayhem missions are far harder than Safeguards, although they are arguably more interesting as well. Reducing the size of the ambushes would go a long way towards making Mayhems more team friendly.[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I only ever SOLO mayhems, really ... but here's an idea: why not have every team-member generate ambushes separately, so tat no part of a divided team ever sucks the WHOLE team's worth of ambushes, at once?


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Then there's the general stupidity. I was terribly disappointed (and complained about) the NPCs in the villain Invention tutorial. Aeon University is supposed to be the the knowledge center for the villain capital of the world. This is where budding mad scientists go to learn their craft. I could see them being quirky, but every last one of them is characterized as a venal incompetent! Where are the faculty that could be believably working on a Phased Linear Oscillation Transduction device to "Show Them - SHOW THEM ALL!"?

[/ QUOTE ]
*chuckle* ... down in the hidden lab, actually WORKING on the P.L.O.T. device - 'cause they're too smart to get dragged into performing actual teaching duties. Duh! ^_^ The guys up top that we talk to? Rented / purchased Nemesis automata, programmed to get students through teh curricula and back out the door aASAP (and route gullible nonpowered "future test subjects" to a particular door for, er ... "extra credit", yeah ...).

[ QUOTE ]

The place of Arachnos in the Rogue Isles and their relation to the Player needs to be better explained: I invited an acquaintance to leave WoW and try out CoV. After they had been playing for over a week I showed them around Pocket-D, pointed out the Hospital Porters, and related how they had been so well-used during the first Valentine's Event. I then had to explain to them the Rikti War and Rikti Force Field/Teleporter Technology, the Destined One project, and Arachnos' Survival-Of-The-Fittest creedo. After I got done with all of that she said "Oh, that tutorial and first set of missions makes a bit more sense now".

The whole villain side assumes 1. you have already played and understand the story from Hero side 2. you understand Arachnos inside and out 3. you already know why you were broken out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good points, here. They should be paid attention to.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then there's the general stupidity. I was terribly disappointed (and complained about) the NPCs in the villain Invention tutorial. Aeon University is supposed to be the the knowledge center for the villain capital of the world. This is where budding mad scientists go to learn their craft. I could see them being quirky, but every last one of them is characterized as a venal incompetent! Where are the faculty that could be believably working on a Phased Linear Oscillation Transduction device to "Show Them - SHOW THEM ALL!"?

[/ QUOTE ]
*chuckle* ... down in the hidden lab, actually WORKING on the P.L.O.T. device - 'cause they're too smart to get dragged into performing actual teaching duties. Duh! ^_^ The guys up top that we talk to? Rented / purchased Nemesis automata, programmed to get students through teh curricula and back out the door aASAP (and route gullible nonpowered "future test subjects" to a particular door for, er ... "extra credit", yeah ...).

[/ QUOTE ]
Speaking as mad scientist in real life myself (No really ^_^), they would leap at the chance to show their superiority and proselytize in class. All onerous teaching responsibilities can be dropped on underling slaves (i.e. grad students).


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then there's the general stupidity. I was terribly disappointed (and complained about) the NPCs in the villain Invention tutorial. Aeon University is supposed to be the the knowledge center for the villain capital of the world. This is where budding mad scientists go to learn their craft. I could see them being quirky, but every last one of them is characterized as a venal incompetent! Where are the faculty that could be believably working on a Phased Linear Oscillation Transduction device to "Show Them - SHOW THEM ALL!"?

[/ QUOTE ]
*chuckle* ... down in the hidden lab, actually WORKING on the P.L.O.T. device - 'cause they're too smart to get dragged into performing actual teaching duties. Duh! ^_^ The guys up top that we talk to? Rented / purchased Nemesis automata, programmed to get students through teh curricula and back out the door aASAP (and route gullible nonpowered "future test subjects" to a particular door for, er ... "extra credit", yeah ...).

[/ QUOTE ]
Speaking as mad scientist in real life myself (No really ^_^), they would leap at the chance to show their superiority and proselytize in class. All onerous teaching responsibilities can be dropped on underling slaves (i.e. grad students).

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a grad student and can vouch for this. The only thing that makes researchers happier than doing their research or experimenters happier than doing their experiments is lording it over the unwashed masses...I'm pretty sure some of them actually orgasm from telling entire auditoriums of students that they are stupid.

Back on topic: I would love to see the "high rent district" areas of CoV cleaned up a bit. Nothing says "I'm rich and therefore better than you" like piles of garbage in the streets. [/sarcasm]

I'm all for upping the lighting and cleanliness of the villain hospitals too. They don't have to be sparkly like heroside but right now I'm scared I'll catch an infection just walking past the hospital building.

Stalkers need a bump in PvE. Period. Fully IOed out, they can fight passably, but it is a looong, difficult slog with nothing reliable but Assassin Strike, Hide, and Placate to win your fights (and lots and lots of running away when even these tools fail you). Up the damage modifier and lower the boost from AS to compensate and you'll silence about half of the criticism of this one-trick pony.

More use of the few uniquely CoV groups. The Luddites, Wyvern, and Legacy Chain are all fascinating hooks for storylines and deserve better than to be tossed aside for "yet another Longbow." Expand the Legacy Chain and Wyvern out to 50. Hero Corps could be added as well, again filling a badly needed "nonvillain enemy" role. And while on the subject, Legacy Chain really ought to drop magical salvage.

More content. A "Bermuda Triangle" zone where the Legacy Chain and Circle of Thorns are struggling for supremacy, while villains opportunistically intervene is one idea. Access to the Shadow Shard as a co-op is another. More Strike Forces and Trials. These are things redside lacks and which are obvious areas to aim new development as hiring continues.

I can remember, once upon a time, a "Blasters are heroes too!" campaign by many of the forum's prominent Blaster players, in an effort to seize the attention of the dev team. Threads like this one perform a similar function, explaining that we love our villains but feel that they need help...and doing so calmly, rationally, and constructively...this is what is needed. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this in a positive manner, and double thanks to Ex for saving and stickying it.


 

Posted

This is pretty minor but I would like it if the protector bots each applied their bubble to the MM. As of now they only apply one to the MM. And maybe while they are at it (not sure if it is in already) make it so that the merc medics will heal the Mm if they don't already.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
with the lack of trials

[/ QUOTE ]

Villains have the exact same number of trials as Heroes. 4. The three respects and Hamidon.

The other hero trials grant pool C.


Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone gets a pet, except the pet class ...? Huh??

[/ QUOTE ]
This is something I've always found amusing, because from the moment the PPPs were announced just about everyone assumed that MMs would be getting yet another pet. PPPs, like the APPs, were meant to partially fill gaps in the functionality of the ATs. Thus the melee ATs get some ranged attacks and control, the ranged/support ATs get some defense shields and self power/damage buffs, and so on. So how does giving MMs yet another pet fill any hole in the AT? Rather they gave MMs a few tools that are either make them more survivable, through damage reduction/defense, or make it easier for their pets to dispatch mobs, through AoE immobilize or single target holds. Yeah, MMs are a pet class, but why do they need more pets on top of the 6 (or 7 if you're /dark or necro/ or 8 if you're necro/dark) they already get? Really, that's more than enough to get through just about any mission.

As to the other ATs being given access to pets, that's something that makes sense for corruptors, who could use something to buff and keep aggro off them, and to a certain extent dominators. I still think the brutes, and maybe stalkers, would've been better served by something other than a pet.


Goodbye, I guess.

@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online

nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch

 

Posted

Was just thinking, that island north of Grandvlle is kinda a waste of space. I rarely see anyone there, and it just makes the zone larger, causing more lag problems and what not. Why not turn that island into a zone of it's own, make it larger, and tweek it so it's more interesting. Maybe make it into an Arachnos lab and testing ground of some sorts. Or something cooler than that, even.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
This is pretty minor but I would like it if the protector bots each applied their bubble to the MM. As of now they only apply one to the MM. And maybe while they are at it (not sure if it is in already) make it so that the merc medics will heal the Mm if they don't already.

[/ QUOTE ]
HELL. NO.

That would be brokenly powerful. Seriously ... the defense you'd get form that would be WELL over the top. I logged in briefly to take a look - all hail the Attribute Monitor! - and grabbed some screenshots of my Robotics / Forcefield Mastermind, and his defense percentages.

Here, take a look for yourself. I think those numbers speak for themselves ... especially when you consider I can enjoy all that defense, and have my robots in "Follow/Defensive" - a.k.a. "Bodyguard" - and get a net of 75% damage resistance to everything that manages to SOMEhow land a hit on me, as well.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
with the lack of trials

[/ QUOTE ]

Villains have the exact same number of trials as Heroes. 4. The three respects and Hamidon.

The other hero trials grant pool C.

[/ QUOTE ]
Cavern of Transcendance.

Sewer Trial.

Eden Trial.

Those are three that Heroes get, and Villain's don't. No comment on their quality, but nonetheless, they ARE options.


 

Posted

This thread has some good ideas, even if I don't agree with all of them.

The only thing I have to add (forgive me if this was mentioned and I missed it) is that heroes can unlock the Witch Hat costume piece, while villains cannot.


"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"

Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers

A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone gets a pet, except the pet class ...? Huh??

[/ QUOTE ]
This is something I've always found amusing, because from the moment the PPPs were announced just about everyone assumed that MMs would be getting yet another pet. PPPs, like the APPs, were meant to partially fill gaps in the functionality of the ATs. Thus the melee ATs get some ranged attacks and control, the ranged/support ATs get some defense shields and self power/damage buffs, and so on.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with that thinking is, the CoV archetypes are already pretty "jack of all trade" in nature, and don't really have many "gaps" that can be filled in. Also, MMs - whose primary includes ranged attacks - get ... yes, another ranged attack (for Black Scorpion, it's Mace Beam Volley).

Also, the PPPs were supposed to be "better" than the APPs; I think "more of the stuff you'e good at", at least as an option, would have been nice.

Heck, rather than a new pet, I'd commit murder for an upgrade, thematic to the patron, which can be applied to ANY pet type.

However, I'd've been less irked if maybe, say, Corruptors got a pet ... and that was it. (Doms already have a pet.) It's just that everyone except MMs get them, you know?


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is pretty minor but I would like it if the protector bots each applied their bubble to the MM. As of now they only apply one to the MM. And maybe while they are at it (not sure if it is in already) make it so that the merc medics will heal the Mm if they don't already.

[/ QUOTE ]
HELL. NO.

That would be brokenly powerful. Seriously ... the defense you'd get form that would be WELL over the top. I logged in briefly to take a look - all hail the Attribute Monitor! - and grabbed some screenshots of my Robotics / Forcefield Mastermind, and his defense percentages.

Here, take a look for yourself. I think those numbers speak for themselves ... especially when you consider I can enjoy all that defense, and have my robots in "Follow/Defensive" - a.k.a. "Bodyguard" - and get a net of 75% damage resistance to everything that manages to SOMEhow land a hit on me, as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point lol i hadn't done the numbers ......would still like medics to use stimulant on me though......
&gt;&gt;
&lt;&lt;


 

Posted

I'd like to add for Ex and any dev looking though that while that list is rather big, some are rather major, some are just recommended and others are just little QoL and immersion fixes.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Heck, rather than a new pet, I'd commit murder for an upgrade, thematic to the patron, which can be applied to ANY pet type.

However, I'd've been less irked if maybe, say, Corruptors got a pet ... and that was it. (Doms already have a pet.) It's just that everyone except MMs get them, you know?

[/ QUOTE ]
See, that's what I assumed MMs would get when the PPPs were announced. Possibly getting another pet? Meh. Possibly getting another upgrade for your pets? Now we're talking! It wouldn't have even had to do much, maybe just give the pets some sort of damage shield or hit point boost so they'd survive longer.

As to the other ATs getting pets, as I said before corruptors can really get a lot of mileage out of them, dominators less so (although I imagine they're pretty useful for mind/ dominators) and brutes and stalkers virtually no use at all (honestly, I'd be very surprised if any player of these ATs took a pet for any reason other than concept or curiosity). So I can understand why you'd be annoyed that they gave pets to ATs that really really don't need them.


Goodbye, I guess.

@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online

nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
As to the other ATs getting pets, as I said before corruptors can really get a lot of mileage out of them, dominators less so (although I imagine they're pretty useful for mind/ dominators)

[/ QUOTE ]
Some people take Mind Control/ because they despise brainless pets and don't want one to begin with .


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Woodsman’s Task Force (the “Eden Trial”) and the Maren MacGregor Task Force (aka the “Sewer Trial”) now have choice tables upon completion. Choice can be a Task Force recipe (i.e. a recipe from the Task Force pool), or the Multi-aspect Enhancement reward that these missions have normally given. Choosing the recipe counts as your “once every three hours” Task Force recipe reward for that character.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of the patch notes from 5/24/2007, and I know from personal experience that the eden trial has dropped me TF only recipes in the past(a Lotg +5% and a Numina Unique to be exact) I haven't done the Cavern of Transendance since before inventions came out so I don't know wether or not it is actully dropping trial or TF drops.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Woodsman’s Task Force (the “Eden Trial”) and the Maren MacGregor Task Force (aka the “Sewer Trial”) now have choice tables upon completion. Choice can be a Task Force recipe (i.e. a recipe from the Task Force pool), or the Multi-aspect Enhancement reward that these missions have normally given. Choosing the recipe counts as your “once every three hours” Task Force recipe reward for that character.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of the patch notes from 5/24/2007, and I know from personal experience that the eden trial has dropped me TF only recipes in the past(a Lotg +5% and a Numina Unique to be exact) I haven't done the Cavern of Transendance since before inventions came out so I don't know wether or not it is actully dropping trial or TF drops.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that the non-respec trials were changed to pool C specifically because the villains have no equivalent to them. Still, that doesn't change the fact that villains still lag behind in large scale group activities for lower levels.