Discussion: Issue 12: Midnight Hour Announced!
By
AaronH,
Posted on: 2008-03-12 09:13 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Please read all the posts after my last post from Deejaye_6, Almighty_HH, Greeneyedlady, and PlasmaStream....
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Oh, I read them. Yup yup yup. Looks like I'm outvoted. Golly gosh-a-rootie!
And now we can play the Sesame Street Game!
"Three of these things belong together...
Three of these things are kinda the same...
But one of these things is not like the others..."
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Because multiple people couldn't POSSIBLY have the same opinion.
Narrow minded much?
Btw, I agree with all of them. Bases seriously need some love. They have so much potential, but yet are still stuck with the same stuff almost 6 issues later.
OMG! I must be an alt account too! /sarcasm
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Wow, what an incredibly jerk thing to say in reply... Who are you? Mike Teevee?
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And who are you?
No, seriously, what other name do you post under on these boards? (I can guessss... 
) All of a sudden a slew of new postings magically appear which all agree with a certain other poster, and they all have incredibly low post counts.
"Well, you see there Zube... all my alt accounts agree with me!!
[/ QUOTE ]Wow. Arrogant, much? You see several other people take you to task over a clearly antagonizing reply to a legitimate request for some attention to the bases, and all of a sudden, we don't exist? LOL! "Uh-oh. Others have agreed with him against me! ... This can't be happening. This can't be happening. This can't be happening! ... *I* know! They must be that same guy! There's *no* other explanation!" /sarcasm You replied insultingly to someone who posted what many others in this game agree with. Expect to be called to task for it, pal. You called him Veruca Salt in a jerk manner, I say that sounds like Mike Teevee.
Zen, everything you have said in your replies recently does nothing to change the fact that the bases still have bugs that have been there for *four* freaking issues. It is not too much for us to ask that the devs do something about the *bases*! (And I notice how you completely dodged my point about how the dev team is *not* "all-new" as you had erroneously claimed.) We are not talking about what the devs have done for the SGs and Prestige levels. We're talking about the *bases*.
We who are so concerned about this spend a *lot* of our gameplay time in the base editor, trying to improve our respective bases, and are getting so very tired of waiting issue after issue for the devs to help us as they said they would. And said they would. And said they would...
Now, from what I understand, someone with a red name (don't know who) apparently let it slip that they actually *are* fixing one of the worst bugs in ish 12. You know what, Zemimabully? That means that they acknowledge that some work needed to be done! And they actually DID some of that work! Why-- does that mean that (perhaps) they (just maybe) have some dev time to devote to this issue?? Does that mean (perchance) that JZ was well within his rights to be demanding what he did?
If the devs had included the notes about fixing the base bug that they are fixing in the I12 update notice, you would not have seen quite the note from JZ that you did. Instead, you probably would have seen the hundreds of base editors out here all cheering at once for the long-overdue attention. (And asking for more, no doubt.)
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This one I will make a real reply to, as I know PlasmaStream is a real person. 
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Yeah. A real person who has already told you that each of us is also a real person. Look! No strings!
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Posi promised, when the NCSoft buyout was announced (or very shortly thereafter), that bases would be worked on. This was one of the things that the new staff members would be assigned to. So the promise of major base love dates to that time. And, like I already said in this thread (and which was ignored, of course), tens of thousands of programming hours cannot be accomplished in a few weeks.
[/ QUOTE ]And you couldn't have spoken this eloquently in your first reply to JZ?
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Yes, bases have had outstanding problems for a long time. Of course they have.
[/ QUOTE ]Oh, thank you! Thank you for acknowledging that! It must be really true now that you've agreed!
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So do many other aspects of this game. But developer resources, in terms of time if nothing else, have been limited. And I should point out that the Devs rarely comment in advance about bug fixes, whether theyre working on them or not. So its not as if bases have been singled out for neglect.
[/ QUOTE ]Perhaps not singled out for neglect, but I defy you to point out any other aspect of the game that has gone with as few additions since its inception. Doubt me? Go to the Patch archives and do a search for "Bases." (Watch out for the occasional incorrect tag on things like "Vanguard bases" and the like.) We've seen very little done to the bases, and almost nothing over the last year and a half. The Pillar of Ice and Flame was about it.
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Nevertheless, there have been major improvements to bases. Improvements that came directly as a result of customer feedback.
[/ QUOTE ]Not recently...
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Drastically reduced rent.
[/ QUOTE ] That was an SG thing. It didn't actually affect the bases.
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Storage items.
[/ QUOTE ]??? That was in issue *7*!! As in, one issue after we got bases! We're now in ish 11, in case you forgot...
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The final fix of the infamous Base Kick Bug.
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Which was a server issue. Not really a base fix... And how long ago was that?
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Low-cost rooms and items for starter bases.
[/ QUOTE ] Okay, you got one there.
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And let us not forget Merry Basemas (in which some SGs and VGs actually received 6 MILLION BONUS PRESTIGE. (Yes, you acknowledged all this above of course. And thank you.)
[/ QUOTE ] Again, that is an SG thing, NOT a base thing. They *are* separate.
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AND far from neglecting bases or base builders
There are highly encouraging signs that the devs are reading the base construction boards and paying close attention to what we discuss over there.
[/ QUOTE ]Only after the I12 announcement (which JZ was talking about) came out.
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My whole point in posting the Veruka Salt comment was simply to say that weve been promised future overhauling of bases, now that the developer staff has increased in size. But this has just happened recently, and its ridiculous to have ever expected that i12 would include major base changes.
[/ QUOTE ] Then perhaps you should have said that, instead of childishly insulting him. And it is obviously NOT "ridiculous to have ever expected that i12 would include major base changes." I do believe that their fixing the Robo Surgery and allowing them to once again attach to the rez circles is quite a major base change. Well, a fix, at any rate. And it's a long-awaited sign that they really aren't ignoring us. Which, honestly, is all we've been asking for all along.
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(
and I did it WITHOUT name-calling, or telling anyone theyre not allowed to post, or any of the other absurd things Ive been accused of.)
[/ QUOTE ]Gee, whiz. How incredible of you. Now if only you could have done this from the start, we could have had this entire conversation be civil...
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Call me a brown noser if you want
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NEVER. You have never been anything but polite and factual in your posts here (as far as I can see) and I see no reason to be anything other than that with you.
You make some very valid points here. All JZ and the rest of us want is some sign from the devs that the bases aren't being pushed off the back burner and into the mulch bin, which is what it's seemed like for some time now. The scuttlebutt has been that the team who put the bases in has left, and no one there wants anything to do with them now. True? Almost certainly not! But it's still being said by many, and with quite a bit of hopelessness in their words when they say it.
As I've already said, the notice that one of the longest (and most annoying to me) lived bugs in the game is now going to be fixed in I12 is all I need to hear to let me know that the devs still care. Though it really would be nice to see some more stuff for the bases... But I'll take what I can get.
Thanks for a well-spoken post, Grazel! It's a pleasure to chat with you here.
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Since Mr. Zubenelomgugottabekiddingmegenubi thought it appropriate to sling mud and call names for paying customers.... [snip]
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"This alt account ALSO agrees with me!!! AND since nobody knows who it really is, I can make up lies about what Zube has actually said (because of course nobody can go back and read his posts and see for themselves that he didn't do that)!! It's a foolproof plan!"
[/ QUOTE ]Well, Zube. I do believe that your reply on page 49 in which you quoted Veruca Salt was your way of calling JZ a spoiled brat. I cannot see how you can even think that saying it the way you did could be taken *any* other way. And that, sir, is (in effect) calling someone a name. So, no, you do not get to play the innocence card in this. An apology card to JZ might be nice, though...
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I agree! The bases have been neglected for too long! About time for new things to happen with them! 
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"My OTHER alt account agrees with me too!!" (And I started it just today!)
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I'm sorry to disappoint you but not all of us waste time on here posting thousands of replies back to others complaints. Some of us have lives. Some actually play the game. I am on here for one reason and one reason only. Bases. You attacked my friend about wanting the bases fixed and I am here to show EVERYONE that JZ is NOT to only one. I want the bases fixed. I want new things in there. I want the things I have in there to work right. If you don't like it, tough! This is a comic book world and people fly, shoot fire and fall from tall buildings without dying. Bases are not a "luxury," we are in a comic book world, come on now! I just want them fixed! Why don't you spend some time actually playing the game instead of posting about it and learn a little about what you speak of. Grow up, if you cant then go to your myspace or facebook and post about the mean person who hurt your feelings. Boo hoo hoo!
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Wow, what an incredibly jerk thing to say in reply... Who are you? Mike Teevee?
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And who are you?
No, seriously, what other name do you post under on these boards? (I can guessss... ) All of a sudden a slew of new postings magically appear which all agree with a certain other poster, and they all have incredibly low post counts.
"Well, you see there Zube... all my alt accounts agree with me!!
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Here is an Idea for you....
See if your brain can handle this! Ok! Ready? Are you sure? Its kind of hard......
Maybe we are all on a channel for people who build bases, let's call this "BaseBuildersInc" for [censored]'s and giggles. And MAYBE, JZ was talking to us about this forum and how rude people like you are. So some of us came to see, and since we have lives, had to sign up. And MAYBE, after we saw what you wrote, we got defensive for our friend and the fact that we love our bases and decided to make a stand. *did DUH just sweep over your face?*
Do you think? Just maybe?
God, my 5 year old is more mature then you.....and you have a 9 year old? I'm sorry.
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I'm sorry to disappoint you but not all of us waste time on here posting thousands of replies back to others complaints. Some of us have lives.
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Was that a post-count attack?
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Maybe we are all on a channel for people who build bases, let's call this "BaseBuildersInc" for [censored]'s and giggles. And MAYBE, JZ was talking to us about this forum and how rude people like you are. So some of us came to see, and since we have lives, had to sign up.
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So ... you're defending yourself from an accusation of being a Sock Puppet ... with a claim that you are, instead, a Meat Puppet?
You know, Meat Puppets are no better than Sock Puppets.
Jus Ignore Pax, he jus ran out of stuff to rant over, so now he figured 4th grade name calling will let him continue his troll fight.
Some people should never be allowed access to the internet
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
Really liking I12 so far. Honestly wasn't expecting as much as we got. Figured it would be more a QoL with a couple of small new features, in preparation for I13. But this is good. Can't wait to experience the gameplay improvements. Powerset Proliferation is very interesting, in a good sense. But if this is the start of things to come, then it certainly is shaking the balance about
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Maybe we are all on a channel for people who build bases, let's call this "BaseBuildersInc" for [censored]'s and giggles. And MAYBE, JZ was talking to us about this forum and how rude people like you are. So some of us came to see, and since we have lives, had to sign up.
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So ... you're defending yourself from an accusation of being a Sock Puppet ... with a claim that you are, instead, a Meat Puppet?
You know, Meat Puppets are no better than Sock Puppets.
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I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea what a "meat puppet" is. Why are people quick to try to insult, do you feel that low about yourself that you need to make others feel that low? Does it make you feel good? Get off the forums that you spend all day on and get some self esteem!
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I'm sorry to disappoint you but not all of us waste time on here posting thousands of replies back to others complaints. Some of us have lives.
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Was that a post-count attack?
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Was this? Have nothing better to say?
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Maybe we are all on a channel for people who build bases, let's call this "BaseBuildersInc" for [censored]'s and giggles. And MAYBE, JZ was talking to us about this forum and how rude people like you are. So some of us came to see, and since we have lives, had to sign up.
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So ... you're defending yourself from an accusation of being a Sock Puppet ... with a claim that you are, instead, a Meat Puppet?
You know, Meat Puppets are no better than Sock Puppets.
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I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea what a "meat puppet" is.
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Precisely whatyou sugested: when a person in an internet argument, goes and gets friends who were not previously part of the community the argument is takng part in, to join that community and support that peson's side of things, making their opinion seem to have broader, more popular support in general.
If you hadn't put that suggestion forward, mind you, it owuld have been your opposite Iw as chiding, rather than you.
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Why are people quick to try to insult, do you feel that low about yourself that you need to make others feel that low? Does it make you feel good? Get off the forums that you spend all day on and get some self esteem!
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Straw man.
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I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea what a "meat puppet" is.
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Precisely what you suggested: when a person in an internet argument, goes and gets friends who were not previously part of the community the argument is taking part in, to join that community and support that person's side of things, making their opinion seem to have broader, more popular support in general.
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Exactly. Thank you, Pax.
Theyre not alt accounts? Not even the one that was registered yesterday? Heh. So instead he ran off to another internet community crying for his friends to come save him from the big, bad CoX Forum Bully. Yeah, thats much better than just whining for his Oompa Loompa. I guess he sure showed me!
(And Im still waiting to hear how, exactly, the newly hired developers could be reasonably expected to complete tens of thousands of programming hours of work between December 07 and the announcement of the planned content of i12.)
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
However, Zub ... the truth is, you were guilty of a faux pas first. I mean, really now ... registration date attacks? You should know better than that!
Is there an anticipated release date on I-12?
Is it close or far away?
Well, I've already got a contact in Cimerora.......
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I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea what a "meat puppet" is.
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Precisely what you suggested: when a person in an internet argument, goes and gets friends who were not previously part of the community the argument is taking part in, to join that community and support that person's side of things, making their opinion seem to have broader, more popular support in general.
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Exactly. Thank you, Pax.
Theyre not alt accounts? Not even the one that was registered yesterday? Heh. So instead he ran off to another internet community crying for his friends to come save him from the big, bad CoX Forum Bully. Yeah, thats much better than just whining for his Oompa Loompa. I guess he sure showed me!
(And Im still waiting to hear how, exactly, the newly hired developers could be reasonably expected to complete tens of thousands of programming hours of work between December 07 and the announcement of the planned content of i12.)
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And? My forum reg date is almost a year off from my game reg date. Most people don't register for the forums automatically. I was a lurker for quite some time before I registered, and iirc, I registered because of a thread similar to this where I wanted to make a reply bad enough to go through a registration screen.
Either way.....the simple fact is your in denial that multiple people disagree with you. Get off your high horse.
I just love that I argued every point Zub has made on this point (including how Plasma, the guy he acknowledges is real, already TOLD him that we're real) and he's not said a thing about it. And yet, he still won't shut up, once more claiming that JZ whined.
And Pax, truth be told, just because someone is on a forum with someone and is a friend of theirs, it doesn't make them a "meat puppet" when they decide to come here to defend that friend. It makes them a good friend.
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Theyre not alt accounts? Not even the one that was registered yesterday? Heh. So instead he ran off to another internet community crying for his friends to come save him from the big, bad CoX Forum Bully. Yeah, thats much better than just whining for his Oompa Loompa. I guess he sure showed me!
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You don't have a single friend, do you? I know for my own part that if one of my friends had told me that he had posted here and someone had compared him to Veruca Salt, I would immediately come here to see what was said.
The fact of the matter is, you acted like a freaking jerk and instead of making a point, you insulted someone. Someone with friends. And then some of them take you to task for it and what? You're surprised? *shakes head*
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(And Im still waiting to hear how, exactly, the newly hired developers could be reasonably expected to complete tens of thousands of programming hours of work between December 07 and the announcement of the planned content of i12.)
[/ QUOTE ]Oh, geez... Are you *still* on this??? THE DEVS ARE NOT ALL NEW! For crying out loud, they have already said that they are fixing one of the oldest base bugs with Issue 12! Clearly, they must be more capable than you'd give them credit for. I dare say if they were only capable of what *you* seem to think they are, we'd still be waiting for even a *rumor* of Ish 12...
Maybe if you'd read what I posted previously in this thread, you might have had a clue about that.
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Maybe we are all on a channel for people who build bases, let's call this "BaseBuildersInc" for [censored]'s and giggles. And MAYBE, JZ was talking to us about this forum and how rude people like you are. So some of us came to see, and since we have lives, had to sign up.
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So ... you're defending yourself from an accusation of being a Sock Puppet ... with a claim that you are, instead, a Meat Puppet?
You know, Meat Puppets are no better than Sock Puppets.
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I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea what a "meat puppet" is.
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Precisely whatyou sugested: when a person in an internet argument, goes and gets friends who were not previously part of the community the argument is takng part in, to join that community and support that peson's side of things, making their opinion seem to have broader, more popular support in general.
If you hadn't put that suggestion forward, mind you, it owuld have been your opposite Iw as chiding, rather than you.
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Why are people quick to try to insult, do you feel that low about yourself that you need to make others feel that low? Does it make you feel good? Get off the forums that you spend all day on and get some self esteem!
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Straw man.
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Not part of the "community?" How am I not, I play the freaking game! Have for 3 + years! My opinion does count for the simple reason I pay for this game! My $16.17 (plus tax) since I live in California means, I have a right to post, play and say what I want. If you don't like it, kick rocks. I want my base fixed. Why don't you do yourself a favor and try to sound smart next time. "Not part of the community," you got to be kidding me. Think of something better, k?
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I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea what a "meat puppet" is.
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Precisely what you suggested: when a person in an internet argument, goes and gets friends who were not previously part of the community the argument is taking part in, to join that community and support that person's side of things, making their opinion seem to have broader, more popular support in general.
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Exactly. Thank you, Pax.
Theyre not alt accounts? Not even the one that was registered yesterday? Heh. So instead he ran off to another internet community crying for his friends to come save him from the big, bad CoX Forum Bully. Yeah, thats much better than just whining for his Oompa Loompa. I guess he sure showed me!
(And Im still waiting to hear how, exactly, the newly hired developers could be reasonably expected to complete tens of thousands of programming hours of work between December 07 and the announcement of the planned content of i12.)
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Waaaa!! Cry for the Dev's a little more why don't you! Trying to kiss up to them or what?
Sycophant
Look it up.
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However, Zub ... the truth is, you were guilty of a faux pas first. I mean, really now ... registration date attacks? You should know better than that!
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It wasn't a registration date attack, actually. What I noticed first was the tiny post counts of several individuals who suddenly appeared out of nowhere to chime in on JZs side
Coupled, of course, with JZ jumping in immediately and saying HA! You see! Other people agree with me! So there! It didnt pass the smell test. In fact, this is the very first time Ive ever questioned the reality of another poster on these forums. I think that in this case I had good reason.
The one person I knew to be real, PlasmaStream, received a thoughtful response.
And as a matter of fact, Ive not seen any evidence that any of these posters is not an alt account. The one registered two days ago is particularly suspicious. But Im willing to concede that they are (mostly, anyway) real people, since like you pointed out a meat puppet is not any better than a sock puppet.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Bases need work. A lot of it. This isn't a Veruca salt moment unless now in your continuum = 6 issues ago. Anyone who says otherwise isn't a BaseBuilder. We've been asking.
We have gotten some things....but outstanding bugs for issues remain unchecked. Things we believe are simple get no comment to PM or thread.
Rent Reduction - Good
Combo Rooms/Units/Starter Bases - Good
Prestige Grants - Great!
Now, lets see about
Decorative Items that exist within the mapping program.
Fixing RoboSurgery (YAY Pohsyb!), and certain Defensive items for those that do the base raiding (not me, but it is a valid concern for them)
And these are just two relatively simple items from a fairly comprehensive list thats been developed, tweaked and updated.
IOP removal...yeah its a start. Robo Surgery (again yay Pohsyb) is another start...
But many builders are losing faith and hope that we will even be acknowledged at this point. We just had more red name posts in the builders forum in the past week than we have all year, and thats 2 by the way (warning that may be hyperbole I didn't actually count, but its damn close to accurate). So as a community we do want someone to tell marketing to kiss off and just SPEAK TO US. Address our concerns just like any other community in this game. At least give us something to cling to rather than two false starts that may not actually mean anything in the long run.
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This one I will make a real reply to, as I know PlasmaStream is a real person.
Posi promised, when the NCSoft buyout was announced (or very shortly thereafter), that bases would be worked on. This was one of the things that the new staff members would be assigned to. So the promise of major base love dates to that time. And, like I already said in this thread (and which was ignored, of course), tens of thousands of programming hours cannot be accomplished in a few weeks.
Yes, bases have had outstanding problems for a long time. Of course they have. So do many other aspects of this game. But developer resources, in terms of time if nothing else, have been limited. And I should point out that the Devs rarely comment in advance about bug fixes, whether theyre working on them or not. So its not as if bases have been singled out for neglect.
Nevertheless, there have been major improvements to bases. Improvements that came directly as a result of customer feedback. Drastically reduced rent. Storage items. The final fix of the infamous Base Kick Bug. Low-cost rooms and items for starter bases. And let us not forget Merry Basemas (in which some SGs and VGs actually received 6 MILLION BONUS PRESTIGE. (Yes, you acknowledged all this above of course. And thank you.)
AND far from neglecting bases or base builders There are highly encouraging signs that the devs are reading the base construction boards and paying close attention to what we discuss over there.
My whole point in posting the Veruka Salt comment was simply to say that weve been promised future overhauling of bases, now that the developer staff has increased in size. But this has just happened recently, and its ridiculous to have ever expected that i12 would include major base changes.
( and I did it WITHOUT name-calling, or telling anyone theyre not allowed to post, or any of the other absurd things Ive been accused of.)
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform