Well we can always hope for the future. I'm sure you guys will find the time to do this stuff eventually.
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Emotes on vet pets and controller pets is a design decision. There's nothing in the that would prevent them from doing them as far as I know, assuming their using skeletons that can/do share animations from player models.
As for the costumization of henchmen...the biggest thing right now is that the power system calls a critter into creation. That critter references an NPC, which references a costume definition. That's all soft coded right now, so there's not any way to allow for a selection between a set of pre-built henchmen. It's very similiar to the soft coding of power animations and FX, but a couple of more layers removed. So a lot of code work, power work, and database work to retcon that system into place.
Beyond that, full customization of henchmen or pets is theoretically possible, but it would require a similiar amount of rewriting of the core systems similiar to power customization as well as the ability to actually create a customized henchman's 'costume'. That would all then need to be stored on invididual players...so that's a pretty significant additional amount of data to be pushing down the pipeline. Then there's the issue of how to handle upgrades for minions.
So again, all possible...but almost everything is possible given enough time and resources. I'd personally have to put henchmen customization as an even lower priority than power customization simply because it benefits a smaller portion of the playerbase. Arguably, not smaller than weapon costumization, but weapon costomizaiton was much simpler and quicker to do...relatively speaking.
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Tx BaB.. as much as I play MM's I would love to be able to give them some sort of customization. Even if they get arm bans (or something) that match the primary and secondary colors on my chest. I can see how even that little bit of customization takes a lot of work. but like you its a low priority for me. I would recommend tabling this for now and work on what you already have on your plate. Granted this might not be everyones opinion on this but this is mine
LvL 50's Inv/Em Tank, Katana/Regen Scrapper, Merc/Traps MM, Ninja/Dark MM, Crab
@Torell Guardian, Liberty & Freedom
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Emotes on vet pets and controller pets is a design decision. There's nothing in the that would prevent them from doing them as far as I know, assuming their using skeletons that can/do share animations from player models.
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Would "Renameable" controller/dominator pets be a possibility at all? If not being able to rename those pets (Other than pets like kheld pets, seekers, ffgs, pseudo pets, etc) is a design decision, that would terribly unfortunate. It just seem's a little lame to me that you get to name henchmen (beings who probably already had names), but not your own pets. =/
So a quick and dirty solution to make MM pets spiffier is to make more NPC models it can grab up on the random draw. Toss in an even amount of female versions of the current ones and done ^_^.
Hell make some female models for some of the boys club NPCs as well and push em all out at one time.
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Emotes on vet pets and controller pets is a design decision. There's nothing in the that would prevent them from doing them as far as I know, assuming their using skeletons that can/do share animations from player models.
As for the costumization of henchmen...the biggest thing right now is that the power system calls a critter into creation. That critter references an NPC, which references a costume definition. That's all soft coded right now, so there's not any way to allow for a selection between a set of pre-built henchmen. It's very similiar to the soft coding of power animations and FX, but a couple of more layers removed. So a lot of code work, power work, and database work to retcon that system into place.
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Where does the costumization of shape shifting for Kheldian's PeaceBringer and Warshade fit into all this?
Fate is what you make.
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...As for the costumization of henchmen...the biggest thing right now is that the power system calls a critter into creation. That critter references an NPC, which references a costume definition. That's all soft coded right now, so there's not any way to allow for a selection between a set of pre-built henchmen. It's very similiar to the soft coding of power animations and FX, but a couple of more layers removed. So a lot of code work, power work, and database work to retcon that system into place.
Beyond that, full customization of henchmen or pets is theoretically possible, but it would require a similiar amount of rewriting of the core systems similiar to power customization as well as the ability to actually create a customized henchman's 'costume'. That would all then need to be stored on invididual players...so that's a pretty significant additional amount of data to be pushing down the pipeline. Then there's the issue of how to handle upgrades for minions.
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Hmmmm. That just got me thinking, is there any way to get some of this done client-side only?
If memory serves me correctly, people used to hack into the game data files on their PC's and change the way their weapons and other things looked. This was only client-side, meaning others still perceived them they way they should normally look, but they could at least enjoy watching their characters with the customizations they created. As I recall, being able to accessing these game innards on the user's PC was stopped due to it beign a EULA violation.
But this leads me to this question: is there a way to implement at least some of what power customization would look like, even if it is only on the client side and only the player can see his/her customizations? If so, is it prohibitively difficult to do?
50 Fire/Dev | 50 AR/Dev | 50 Ninjas/FF MM | 50 Bots/Dark | 50 Kin/Rad |
44 EM/Regen | 39 BS/Regen | 38 Kin/Elec | 27 Thugs/Pain
"Rare is the man so noble that he will always give thanks for that which is freely given." -Jock_Tamson
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Hmmmm. That just got me thinking, is there any way to get some of this done client-side only?
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Actually, yes there is. That is all I'm saying about it though.
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As I recall, being able to accessing these game innards on the user's PC was stopped due to it beign a EULA violation.
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It wasn't stopped per say, just prevented from being talked about online.
*Edited due to weird double post.
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Hmmmm. That just got me thinking, is there any way to get some of this done client-side only?
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Actually, yes there is. That is all I'm saying about it though.
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If I'm not mistaken, Gravity Control>Propel is already like this. The random junk you see thrown on your screen isn't always the random junk your teammates see on their screen.
Right? 
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Hmmmm. That just got me thinking, is there any way to get some of this done client-side only?
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Actually, yes there is. That is all I'm saying about it though.
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If I'm not mistaken, Gravity Control>Propel is already like this. The random junk you see thrown on your screen isn't always the random junk your teammates see on their screen.
Right?
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Actually, Im saying that Mobs in the game (especially the human looking ones) have interchangeable parts like the players. Only those pieces are set client side so it can be referred by a single call by the host servers. So unlike the players which are streamed to the client as:
Player Character Name: Size, Head, Torso, Arms, Hands, etc.
Mobs are sent by a single call, which the client uses to references a file that lists what Size, Head, Torso, Arms, Hands, etc. that mob has.
What the Mobs in the game looks like can be changed but only the client will see the change. However, I'm not going to say how to do it.
Fair enough.
But do you think it would be possible for the devs to implement a rudimentary interface where players could - on their side only - replace some of these elements with some of their own design? Perhaps allow for some kind of file exchange so that people who really get off on creating stuff like that can do most of the work and others can benefit. They needn't expose the program's inner workings if they build a shell around it and allow us to work just on images, colors and textures.
50 Fire/Dev | 50 AR/Dev | 50 Ninjas/FF MM | 50 Bots/Dark | 50 Kin/Rad |
44 EM/Regen | 39 BS/Regen | 38 Kin/Elec | 27 Thugs/Pain
"Rare is the man so noble that he will always give thanks for that which is freely given." -Jock_Tamson
So BaB... What you're really saying is "0 + 128 = 128"?
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Fair enough.
But do you think it would be possible for the devs to implement a rudimentary interface where players could - on their side only - replace some of these elements with some of their own design? Perhaps allow for some kind of file exchange so that people who really get off on creating stuff like that can do most of the work and others can benefit. They needn't expose the program's inner workings if they build a shell around it and allow us to work just on images, colors and textures.
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Possible? Heck, I could make that and I'm not a dev. So could a lot of people on these boards. However, since we're not devs it would be against the EULA for us to do so. So, it's really up to the devs wheter they want to or not. And I'm sure there's plenty of reasons against it. 
You do know that the first game game that allows a mastermind type summoner that can design each and every one of thier pets apperance and the appearnce of thier pets would gain the most summon orientasted players as long
as they were the only one.
The Legendary Cosmological Prince Reigar 53rd Illusion Control/Storm Summoning/Primal Forces Mastery/Incarnate
It's a dark and story night. That means something bad is happening out there
Thanx again, B. I have to agree with your stated priorities. And, as I mentioned before, I'm sure you will all keep me plenty busy with the new stuff. Thanx for all the hard work you guys continually put in.
For the people that think Champions Online + Power Customization = Doom for City Of, here's something to consider:
We, the playerbase, have little to lose by Champions Online coming out. If it is a better game, we can just switch over; if it's not, we stay here. NCSoft, on the other hand, has much to lose. And you can be certain if power customization was the key to keeping players they would be dropping everything else to focus on adding it in, even if it meant rewriting the system from the ground up.
But power customization is not the be all and end all of City Of. Don't mistake customer demand for feature priority. Even if power customization was the #1 feature on every single customer's want list, it still doesn't mean it should have the highest priority. If feature #1 would take just as much time as features #2-9, it's possible that most players would rather have #2-9 as a group than just #1, even though individually they liked #1 better.
In addition, it takes time to develop the power customization system for Champions Online too, time that is not being spent on other features. Even if Champions Online has power customization and City Of doesn't, how many features will City Of have that are lacking from Champions?
Will Champions have the power selection that City Of has? The stories? The badges? The items? The maps? The combat? Given that Cryptic is doing it, one would expect many similarities, but many of those things are more dependent on time than technology, so even with a brand new state-of-the-art engine, City Of has many more years of work that has gone into its content.
Now, more than likely (I would argue it's a statistical certainty) some players care enough about power customization that they would be willing to deal with whatever features Champions was lacking to move over. Heck, there will likely be people moving over that don't even care about power customization. But I don't think that is the make-or-break feature for the majority of the players, because if it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
There might come a time where power customization becomes a top priority, but by then maybe they will already be looking at a City Of 2.0.
You know what I and many other people would like to see who have slower computers, the ability to turn off everyones nice glowing effects so that we can still run 8 man teams without all the frame lag.
Because the way I see it, you are gonna add even more to that frame lag now with all this stuff.
I really believe that they aren't thinking about "priority" in the right way.
Is it a "priority" to keep all your current customers?
Is it a "priority" to stay competitive with new games coming on the market?
If so, then PC should be a "priority" equal to whatever level you place those at.
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There might come a time where power customization becomes a top priority, but by then maybe they will already be looking at a City Of 2.0.
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I'd say that CoX 2 is already in, at the very least beginning to, be in development. There's most likely a list of features they'd like to have worked on when they do make a sequel to the game from the ground up.
Hey, BaBs, I've got a technical question about something I see a lot with my Ill/Rad hero.
Let me start by saying that I just re-read the first post in this thread and re-familiarized myself with why costume-based customization is insufficient as a path to full customization. Thanks for that, by the way. It was insightful and a damn sight more info than any other game's devs have ever given to their players in the games I've played.
Anyway, here's the thing I'm curious about - The animation for Radiation Infection and Enervating Field is a kind of upraised hand palm-down thing that summons a cloud of radiation onto the target. (A pretty good example of the distinction between FX on the hero and FX on the target.)
[edit]Now that I think about it, EF's animation is actually more of a "double-fist haymaker" move, which may mean that I'm mis-remembering some of the stuff I talk about below this paragraph and it's really just an artifact of EF combined with a visible Nemesis Staff. The wages of writing from work instead of having the game open in front of me.[/edit]
If I whip out my Nemesis Staff and then activate RI or EF, it doesn't "sheathe" my staff and then play the "radiation summoning" animation. Instead, it plays an animation where my hero swings the staff-head down towards the ground (as if he was trying hold it overhead with both hands and club something on the noggin with it) and then the cloud of radiation is summoned onto the target.
This is actually pretty neat looking and sometimes I'll do it on purpose just for giggles. Usually, it happens just because my attack chain happened to put the two powers in sequence.
Clearly, the Nemesis Staff isn't attached to my characters as a costume piece. Where is the animation coming from? Is my staff essentially treated as a temporary costume piece while it's visible? Are we in a kind of mid-way no-man's-land where it's trying to treat it as a customized weapon and so it lands on the default animation used by the NPC's that wield the staff? It's just a lucky coincidence that the attack animation happens to work alright with the target FX animation?
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Very nice post, BAB. But, I hope nobody minds if I mention a few other problems that would have to be sorted out?
First, there are a couple of power sets that have a power that doesn't match the color of the rest of the set. /Thermal for corruptors is one, as is the fire defensive set. Both of these have a shield power that is more blueish-white than the normal color of the flames, to make it stand out. If PC went in, these powers would either have to start to match the colors of the set or they would require a second choice for colors.
The second problem comes when you start to stack powers. Let's look at Force Field for an example: You're on a team with three FF users. One has red bubbles, one has yellow, and one's still at classic blue. Now, how do you handle it when they start to put shields on their allies? Will a red shield and a yellow shield make an orange shield? What if Yellow has both personal shields, but Red only has one? Yellow-Orange shields? And then blue starts adding shields in, and... yuck. There's also the eyesore you'd get when they all fire up their big AoE shields and start moving around each other. It might look neat from a distance, but I'm sure anyone caught in such a mess would quickly discover it to be as headache inducing as the old Sonic effects.
Finally, there are powers that create other power effects. MM Robots cast their own Force Fields. The /Traps FF Generator does the same. MM Robots shoot red lasers, and MM Zombies hurl green "stuff". /Devices Trip Mines and Time Bombs create explosions of orange flame. And Trick Arrow is full of secondary effects after the arrow hits, including (Castle's favorate power) Oil Slick. And who's power customization would determine what color Oil Slick burns, anyway? When you have a team up of The Purple Archer and The Green Flame, having it burn orange just doesn't seem like an option...
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This is a valid question, but what happens in a game is far different than what happens in "our" world. Color-overlap results in a new color simply because of light, and therefore could be mad einto any color of choice by the devs. So the default would seem to be a certain color, but would probably be an error in the script text. This can be understood better by thinking about what happens when there is an error in the skin code with a plethera of "steam" games, the purple texture. That is a result from a script error and is the default appearance of such.
Flux Tempest-Electric Melee/Willpower
Zaunte's Rage-Claws/Invulnerability
I guess this is a double post, but enough time has passed that I can't edit the previous one.
I'm curious about something I see pretty regularly.
My Ill/Rad draws a weapon and activates Enervating Field.
If it's a one-handed weapon (e.g. undead axe), he does the normal two-fisted overhand animation. The weapon turns sideways along with the right hand and goes along for the ride.
If it's a two-handed weapon (e.g. nemesis staff or gabriel's hammer), he grabs the weapon with both hands and performs the normal attack animation for that weapon, with the green cloud seeming to appear at the end of the weapon but, I'm guessing, really appearing wherever it normally appears.
Why does the two-handed weapon override the default power animation? Are there any interesting implications arising from the fact that the two-handed weapon's animation CAN override the default animation?
Firstly, kudos to BAB for his thoughtful explanation of the current state of affairs regarding the potential customization of powers. An example, once again, of the extraordinary and unique relationship that exists between the development team and the players in this game.
Secondly, I for one would advocate that efforts be made to provide customizable powers (most likely in terms of their colour tint, and potentially particle effect and possibly animation choice.) I would advocate for the following reasons:
1. Numerous MMOs exist that are analogous in one form or another to CoX; and few allow the player to directly control their appearance (outside of equipped items, say) let alone control the visual appearance of their 'powers'. This innovation would be another positive reason to hold CoX distinct from its competitors.
2. It is an often-requested addition to the game, asked for by a potentially sizable number of players since release if not before. I'm not trying to imply that every long-standing request should be satisfied; but certainly, satisfying a long-standing request will be warmly-received by the playerbase.
3. Players have repeatedly demonstrated a love of customization for their characters. We have seen the introduction of capes, auras, the CoV wardrobe, wings, and now weapons. These have all been positively welcomed by the community; even though they do not directly correlate as 'content' in the zone / mission / taskforce etc. sense, one should not underestimate the time a player is willing to put in for purposes of perfecting the appearance of their character.
4. Power customization would extend not only to player characters, but also to NPCs. Something as simply as colour tinting would help differentiate between any number of enemies that use the same power. Little things like this can go a surprisingly far way towards relieving the unfortunate sense of repetition that can present itself in an MMO. One only has to look, for instance, at the way CoV breathed new life into the franchise simply be recolouring the instanced-mission interiors.
From the perspective of a programmer, I can readily understand the sheer depth of the issue and the enormous task it represents; however, as I argue above, it appears to me to be a worthwhile undertaking. (Furthermore, I would politely rib the designer that did not have the presence of forethought to bake the hooks for such a system directly into the game at conception. 
)
to request this isn't so much an issue. it's been requested, it's been re-requested, and -if people pay attention to the dev reply- it's not really possible at the moment with the CoX engine.
Essentially, what you've got in the assault rifle power, for example, is an apple. What you've got in devices is an orange.
What are the characteristics of an apply? well, it's crisp, red or green skin, etc. What are the characteristics of an orange? well, it's orange, soft, lots of juice.
A few traits are interchangable. But they're apples and oranges. You can't have an apple orange, and what people are requesting is essentially "change the world so we can have appleoranges." Walk into a genetics engineering office and ask that, and they'll say "Get back to us in fifty years." Essentially, the same thing is happening. "well, will you settle for just the flavor, or just the juicyness? the softness or the color?"
Possible, but a pain in the butt on a level you've never seen. Redesigning parts of the game from the ground up is, essentially, remaking the entire game. In other words, a new game. Top that off with the amount of content that's been added to the original game, and it's insane. I wouldn't be surprised if they've started working on this since day one of CoH's release and never managed to finish.
I'm not saying to stop requesting, since it's something I'd really like to see, but the game flat out wasn't designed for it. it's like modding a moped for hauling an 18wheeler trailer.
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I just want to thank you bigtime, Brawler, for the explanation. I'm web developer-lite myself, and so I was always interested in hearing some sort of technical explanation why. You guys throw in enough great stuff all the time to keep this game great. I'll still hope you all find a clever way to get it in without burying yourselves.
I would also love to hear a similarly detailed explanation about why we cant customize henchmen, when you get the time. If nothing else, it would be nice to have male/female versions (robots being a possible exception, since there's nothing inherently "male" about the existing bots).
Could you please also maybe throw in why we cant emote our veteran reward pets?
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Emotes on vet pets and controller pets is a design decision. There's nothing in the that would prevent them from doing them as far as I know, assuming their using skeletons that can/do share animations from player models.
As for the costumization of henchmen...the biggest thing right now is that the power system calls a critter into creation. That critter references an NPC, which references a costume definition. That's all soft coded right now, so there's not any way to allow for a selection between a set of pre-built henchmen. It's very similiar to the soft coding of power animations and FX, but a couple of more layers removed. So a lot of code work, power work, and database work to retcon that system into place.
Beyond that, full customization of henchmen or pets is theoretically possible, but it would require a similiar amount of rewriting of the core systems similiar to power customization as well as the ability to actually create a customized henchman's 'costume'. That would all then need to be stored on invididual players...so that's a pretty significant additional amount of data to be pushing down the pipeline. Then there's the issue of how to handle upgrades for minions.
So again, all possible...but almost everything is possible given enough time and resources. I'd personally have to put henchmen customization as an even lower priority than power customization simply because it benefits a smaller portion of the playerbase. Arguably, not smaller than weapon costumization, but weapon costomizaiton was much simpler and quicker to do...relatively speaking.