In-Testing: Task / Strike Force and Trial Missions
By
1_800_Spines,
Posted on: 2008-02-26 15:44 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This change and the previous one is bad because it still allows for some teammates to grief your team should they choose to log off and not quit. I have had it to happen twice since the first change on a few tfs I have done. Once on Katie hannon and once Sara Moore TFs. We need a way to be able to kick people from the team that are not currently logged in. Secondly neither of these changes have done anything to address the reason why this softloading of tf/sfs happens in the first place. If the recipes that people can actually use were more readily accessable we would not be going thru this now in the first place. Either address the issue with the drop pools or you are doing all this for nothing and all it is doing is punishing the rest of the playerbase instead of farmers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Understandable and thanks for the feedback. However, I would have to advise you to better get to know the people you are grouping with. Simply put, if someone has a reputation for such, don't engage in a task / strike force or trial with them. You would be well advised to only take your most trusted allies with you to tackle such challenging and dangerous missions!
[/ QUOTE ]
I cant believe you just said that? Some servers are like ghost towns I am sometimes lucky enough to get the bare minimum to start a TF/SF let alone give everyone a background check before I start one. Seriously this patch stinks just like the one before did. They must give us the ability to kick people who log off or not even bother with this change.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Maybe I'm alone in not liking this either. I actually would prefer how it is how, honestly.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This change and the previous one is bad because it still allows for some teammates to grief your team should they choose to log off and not quit. I have had it to happen twice since the first change on a few tfs I have done. Once on Katie hannon and once Sara Moore TFs. We need a way to be able to kick people from the team that are not currently logged in. Secondly neither of these changes have done anything to address the reason why this softloading of tf/sfs happens in the first place. If the recipes that people can actually use were more readily accessable we would not be going thru this now in the first place. Either address the issue with the drop pools or you are doing all this for nothing and all it is doing is punishing the rest of the playerbase instead of farmers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Understandable and thanks for the feedback. However, I would have to advise you to better get to know the people you are grouping with. Simply put, if someone has a reputation for such, don't engage in a task / strike force or trial with them. You would be well advised to only take your most trusted allies with you to tackle such challenging and dangerous missions!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes there are not enough trusted allies online to tackle such challenging and dangerous missions. It's the ridiculous minimum team size that causes you to pickup whoever you can find to start the TF's that require 7-8 team members. Please reduce the initial team sizes to something reasonable, like 4 members except for the STF and LRSF.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you point out which TF/SFs you're talking about...since most of them have a min of 4 unless there is a difficult AV at the end.
EDIT: for the record I like the way it currently is on Live better unless we can kick those who have logged off.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This change and the previous one is bad because it still allows for some teammates to grief your team should they choose to log off and not quit. I have had it to happen twice since the first change on a few tfs I have done. Once on Katie hannon and once Sara Moore TFs. We need a way to be able to kick people from the team that are not currently logged in. Secondly neither of these changes have done anything to address the reason why this softloading of tf/sfs happens in the first place. If the recipes that people can actually use were more readily accessable we would not be going thru this now in the first place. Either address the issue with the drop pools or you are doing all this for nothing and all it is doing is punishing the rest of the playerbase instead of farmers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Understandable and thanks for the feedback. However, I would have to advise you to better get to know the people you are grouping with. Simply put, if someone has a reputation for such, don't engage in a task / strike force or trial with them. You would be well advised to only take your most trusted allies with you to tackle such challenging and dangerous missions!
[/ QUOTE ]
On several TF's its already hard enough to get a big enough team together to run it(esp for the FP and Shard TF's) and many times you dont have the luxury of picking and choosing who is to use.
This also stops people who might drop out suddenly due to internet problems and such.
IMO all this change does it stop a few people from softloading, while punishes the rest of the player base becasue no matter how much you "prepare" there are going to be times where someone is going to drop out suddenly.
[/ QUOTE ]
It does put the control back in the players hands in all cases but a hard, irreconcilable loss of internet connectivity. Some examples:
Wife/Husband agro or a bad storm moving into your area that will likely cause you to have a power outage: Simply let the team know you need to go and quit the team and the spawns will scale down to the new team size.
Cat steps on your power strip, turning off your system: Well, the team will have to deal with you going Link Dead, but hopefully they can manage till you log back in.
Someone on your team is acting like a complete dork, agroing ahead, or otherwise placing the teams integrity in jeopardy: Have the team leader talk with them and if they can't settle down, remove them from the team and allow the spawn size to scale down to the new team size.
If you want to "solo" a Task Force (for example Positron)? Invite two others (since it is a min. 3 person to start) to start the Task Force and then have one quit. You need to have 2 people minimum in a Task Force / Strike Force or Trial for the mission chain to stay solvent. But hey, you can solo spawns for 2 with your settings on heroic, can't you? Or - duo it with a friend.
I hope those examples help.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can see your point about a storm but sometimes a power outage happens because someone down the street hit a pole or if they are doing maintenance type stuff in your area. Further more it doesnt address the issues where you have a crappy ISP that is having problems after you start the TF/SF. The only solution is give us the ability to kick teammates if they log or dc or not even bother with it.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Whoa, nice! A very excellent compromise it would seem.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This change and the previous one is bad because it still allows for some teammates to grief your team should they choose to log off and not quit. I have had it to happen twice since the first change on a few tfs I have done. Once on Katie hannon and once Sara Moore TFs. We need a way to be able to kick people from the team that are not currently logged in. Secondly neither of these changes have done anything to address the reason why this softloading of tf/sfs happens in the first place. If the recipes that people can actually use were more readily accessable we would not be going thru this now in the first place. Either address the issue with the drop pools or you are doing all this for nothing and all it is doing is punishing the rest of the playerbase instead of farmers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Understandable and thanks for the feedback. However, I would have to advise you to better get to know the people you are grouping with. Simply put, if someone has a reputation for such, don't engage in a task / strike force or trial with them. You would be well advised to only take your most trusted allies with you to tackle such challenging and dangerous missions!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes there are not enough trusted allies online to tackle such challenging and dangerous missions. It's the ridiculous minimum team size that causes you to pickup whoever you can find to start the TF's that require 7-8 team members. Please reduce the initial team sizes to something reasonable, like 4 members except for the STF and LRSF.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you point out which TF/SFs you're talking about...since most of them have a min of 4 unless there is a difficult AV at the end.
EDIT: for the record I like the way it currently is on Live better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lets see,
Numina - 5
Citadel - 6
Moonfire - 6
Hess - 6
Katie - 6 (never a problem filling up though)
Manticore - 7
All 4 Shard TF's - 8
Lady Grey - 8
There are only 3 that are 4 and below (Numina, Positron and Synapse). 3 out of 14 that are 4 and below.
True villains have 4 that are 4 and below, but hey, I don't play villains all that much.
[ QUOTE ]
Whoa, nice! A very excellent compromise it would seem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. I don't understand why people think the way it is on Live right now could be better in any way. If four people log off without quitting an 8-man TF, you're going to be hurting with *either* version. At least with this new version, it'll allow for team attrition in many circumstances. The current Live version doesn't allow for *any.*
I'm going to add my voice to those opposing this change.
I don't like the idea that my current ONLINE gaming can be affected in any way by OFFLINE players.
The need to "screen" my potential teammates is just an added inconvenience when forming a TF. At an extreme, it's downright rude.
You're creating a situation where a team has an ADVANTAGE from kicking players! I don't understand that.
I think the behavior this change actually will encourage is not the type of behavior you really want to be encouraging.
[ QUOTE ]
If you want to "solo" a Task Force (for example Positron)? Invite two others (since it is a min. 3 person to start) to start the Task Force and then have one quit. You need to have 2 people minimum in a Task Force / Strike Force or Trial for the mission chain to stay solvent. But hey, you can solo spawns for 2 with your settings on heroic, can't you? Or - duo it with a friend.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait... you WANT us to "solo" content that was designed for "you need a team of at least 3"???
I thought the Devs frowned upon people who didn't play the content as intended. (go ask Positron about people running to the end of missions.)
If you TRUELY feel this way, then remove the minimum from all TFs. Why should people have to borrow a warm body to start the TF and then kick them? And in that case, I hope it starts becoming clear how absurd this setup really can be.
Perhaps the best solution would be to combine the two ideas. Spawn for the number of current members (to avoid "leeching") and to a minimum of the starting value (to preserve the designed minimum team-oriented challenge).
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to add my voice to those opposing this change.
I don't like the idea that my current ONLINE gaming can be affected in any way by OFFLINE players.
The need to "screen" my potential teammates is just an added inconvenience when forming a TF. At an extreme, it's downright rude.
You're creating a situation where a team has an ADVANTAGE from kicking players! I don't understand that.
I think the behavior this change actually will encourage is not the type of behavior you really want to be encouraging.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what I mean. It is like they are not even thinking these changes thru before they put up a patch. If this patch has to go thru then do this if you wont allow us to kick people who are not logged in. Give us the ability to see what toon a person is playing as if you put them on Global ignore. Currently you dont see anything about that person if they are on global ignore. I think this is the only other way. I can create a blacklist for the TF/SF Quitters and Griefers so I will be able to know at least for that account if a person is a bad player or not.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Yep. I don't understand why people think the way it is on Live right now could be better in any way. If four people log off without quitting an 8-man TF, you're going to be hurting with *either* version. At least with this new version, it'll allow for team attrition in many circumstances. The current Live version doesn't allow for *any.*
[/ QUOTE ]
This is wisdom.
and another thing... if your goal is to stop people from logging out and then returning for TF rewards, then just stop rewarding people who are logging out. If you spend too much of a TF offline, you get no reward. If people won't get an advantage in logging out, they'll stop doing it! Don't punish the rest of the team for disconnects, though.
I would say that since the developers have access to all the numbers, like how many people run TFs, how often, how many people typically participate, how many start versus how many finish... with all the stats, they have a pretty good idea of what the majority of TFers do. Yes, there are situations where <bleep> happens, but by and large, the vast majority of people will get a positive experience from this change.
No, it may not be perfect, and it may not solve every single scenario you can think of, but geez, give 'em some props for coming up with a good compromise.
I promise you, the numbers are on =their= side.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm alone in not liking this either. I actually would prefer how it is how, honestly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Meh. I don't like it either, but if the idea is to prevent soft-loading this is a better way to go about it.
I just happen to get hurt by this more than the other way, since I could solo 4-person spawns at level 20 on most of my characters but not 8-person spawns. 
Oh well, fewer Pool C drops on the Black Market from me...I've already hoarded the ones I needed on Infinity anyway.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is the only other way. I can create a blacklist for the TF/SF Quitters and Griefers so I will be able to know at least for that account if a person is a bad player or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better create a list of bad TF leaders, too.
This player lets his 2nd account join and log out, increasing your team's spawn sizes and making you work for his alt!
This other player kicks people who disconnected, as revenge for the team having to fight full spawns with one missing player.
And this guy kicked someone who went AFK for a bio break because he didn't want to be facing spawns for 7 with only 6 people fighting.
Honestly, I'm not going to be happy if the game goes that direction. I may just stop bothering with TFs.
Quick Fix
Make ALL TFs/SFs only need 3 to start like Positron TF....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is the only other way. I can create a blacklist for the TF/SF Quitters and Griefers so I will be able to know at least for that account if a person is a bad player or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better create a list of bad TF leaders, too.
This player lets his 2nd account join and log out, increasing your team's spawn sizes and making you work for his alt!
This other player kicks people who disconnected, as revenge for the team having to fight full spawns with one missing player.
And this guy kicked someone who went AFK for a bio break because he didn't want to be facing spawns for 7 with only 6 people fighting.
Honestly, I'm not going to be happy if the game goes that direction. I may just stop bothering with TFs.
[/ QUOTE ]
We would do alot more TFs if we didnt have to have a zillion people to start them.. Maybe its the same for you.. cuz the TFs arent really that hard.. most are duo-able.
[ QUOTE ]
I would say that since the developers have access to all the numbers, like how many people run TFs, how often, how many people typically participate, how many start versus how many finish... with all the stats, they have a pretty good idea of what the majority of TFers do. Yes, there are situations where <bleep> happens, but by and large, the vast majority of people will get a positive experience from this change.
[/ QUOTE ]
If they continue to play the way the numbers show they've been playing, you may be right. But I highly doubt players will see this change and not alter their play style because of it.
If the Devs are seeing people log out and return, then why don't they just mess with the rewards that those people get? Stop giving them a reward if they log out for too long and people will stop logging back in just for 1 rewarding mission!
I've done 500+ TF in my time on CoH and have never been kicked from a TF. I don't think this change will increase my chances of getting kicked. Also, it's not that big a difference from an 8 man spawn to a 6 man spawn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would say that since the developers have access to all the numbers, like how many people run TFs, how often, how many people typically participate, how many start versus how many finish... with all the stats, they have a pretty good idea of what the majority of TFers do. Yes, there are situations where <bleep> happens, but by and large, the vast majority of people will get a positive experience from this change.
[/ QUOTE ]
If they continue to play the way the numbers show they've been playing, you may be right. But I highly doubt players will see this change and not alter their play style because of it.
If the Devs are seeing people log out and return, then why don't they just mess with the rewards that those people get? Stop giving them a reward if they log out for too long and people will stop logging back in just for 1 rewarding mission!
[/ QUOTE ]
I think people who miss any mission other than travel to blah and deliver blah to blah should get nothing.
But then to.. I believe in science.
So the internal testers of CoX is greater then the actual player base? Thats basically what they are saying. Only view I see we are getting out of this is that its a change that they are going to do regardless how we feel about it.
Yesterdays Posi took my team four hours when we started with 8 and ended up with two people. It was only because I wanted to get it out the way and not worry about ever going back to get it.
Liked the current system better, actually. Anything you can do solo shouldn't be worth a C drop.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
[ QUOTE ]
Liked the current system better, actually. Anything you can do solo shouldn't be worth a C drop.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well then they should eliminate them from all the TFs except maybe STF/LRSF/Katie/LGTF (this one is iffy, never tried) and the shard ones that require simultaneous clicks. The rest are easily soloable with a shivan and/or a RWZ heavy for the AV.
[ QUOTE ]
Great move, Devs. Well done.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
Please add:
*Ability to kick offline members
*Min team size for most tfs should be scaled down to 4-6 (except for LRSF, STF, ?LGTF?)
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata