NCSoft acquires "City of" Franchise!
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2007-11-06 13:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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They don't have their discussions in public, so naturally I haven't. However, I have noticed how much the community reps have pushed PvP, and I think NCSoft generally - due to its experience mostly being in East Asian grindfests - favours PvP, grind and phat lewt.
I'm not saying that I think we'll soon be City of Lineage but I do worry about there being a paradigm shift in where development is centered. I'm reserving judgement really though. 
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Note highlighted portion.
The community reps push PVP because that is a collective part of our community. My job specifically is the acquisition and retention of subscribers to COH/COV. If I notice that we have a community bleeder, it is my direct responsibility to put some pressure on that spot to stop the flow.
I don't love PVP, I actually really suck at it, but I love the aspect and diversity that our various small groups bring to the table and I for one will always be willing to go out and support those niche, micro, and mezzo groups so that the entire game (macro) continues to thrive.
More than anything you should be watching your bid/buy lines because it is the market and invention system of COH/COV that keeps me most engaged.
Ex
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Sure. I don't mean to say "hey Ex pushes PvP, burn her at the stake!" 
I just mean exactly what you said: you're focusing on an area to help gain or retain players. That's fine, and I certainly know it's not your exclusive area of focus. You're a great representative and you've certainly - from what I can see on the forums - supported whatever the community has proposed.
I don't think PvP is evil, and I think it should continue to be supported. I do think that by focusing on it over PvE in development would harm the game, or at least harm the game as I play it.
As I said though, that's just my slight concern over the buyout. I'm reserving judgement until we've had a long enough time pass that it becomes apparent whether it'll have a detrimental effect or not. I strongly suspect it won't. Woo hoo, new investment in my favourite MMO!
It doesn't have to be one or the other. PvP can be developed without sacrificing PvE. I think there will be inprovements in both.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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It doesn't have to be one or the other. PvP can be developed without sacrificing PvE. I think there will be inprovements in both.
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Kinda like how they butchered so many pve powers for the sake of pvp?
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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*baffeled & shakes head*
I completely agree with Pax. Those of us who have invested in both CoH, CoV, preorder, DVD collectors editions, GvE pack, etc. should get thrown some sort of bone.
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Why? You got what you paid for from each and every one of them. The 'rewards' being given out don't slight you in the least.
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You miss the point - it's not about beign slighted, it's about NCSoft has an opportunity ... to further cement our collective loyalty to their product.
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Don't give me that 'customer service' song and dance. It's a bogus argument because it relies on the assumption that NCSoft should 'make it up' to you for doing something wrong or slighting you. They have done neither.
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Wrong.
Customer Service also includes perks and extras, not just making good on mistakes, errors, and failures.
In Vegas? Regular, high-volume gamblers can get "comp'd" (or "compensated") various thigns - up to and including the whole bill for their room. Not because the casino has done anything wrong ... no, but because they want to encourage customer loyalty.
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Don't give me that 'customer service' song and dance. It's a bogus argument because it relies on the assumption that NCSoft should 'make it up' to you for doing something wrong or slighting you. They have done neither.
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Customer service and customer incentives are two different functions.
The continued (and vain) attempt to link past incentives with "entitlement" is a bit intentionally obstreperous. Smarter to focus on the good or bad behind proven marketing techniques. Marketing isn't about entitlement, it's about money.
If there is a downside to long-term customer incentives, if some cosmetic indicator in some way, shape or form hinders new customer incentives, then both I and the good folks in marketing departments across the world would love to hear it, because it's simply going to change the face of marketing.
A) Encourage customers to hold out on new releases and await discount rates or free releases
or
B) Encourage a buy early/often model for full cost purchases.
Smart marketers pick "B".
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I'm grumpy but loveable?
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They were only half right.
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BaB is pure loveable?
This is a service-oriented business, and it's all
about keeping the player happy over the long term.
So you have to listen and pay attention. If a large
portion of your playerbase is screaming about
some change, you be wise to listen. - Raph Koster
You in case anyone hasn't seen it they put out the report for this quater today and once again in comperison to other tittles CoX is on the low side of the bring home. Lineage and lineage II had a tottal of close to $60 mill compared to CoX's $6 mill wonder what they think when we [censored] about so many things on here.
NCsoft Announces 2007 Third Quarter Financial Results
Company reports consolidated sales of KRW 80.0 billion, operating income of KRW 9.7 billion and net income of KRW 10.1 billion; Compared to the previous quarter, sales rose 5% and Guild Wars sales rose 57%
Note: 1USD = 905.60 Korean Won (KRW)
Seoul, South Korea, November 6, 2007NCsoft® Corporation (KSE: 036570.KS) today reported third quarter 2007 sales of KRW 80.0 billion (US$88.3 million), operating income of KRW 9.7 billion (US$10.7 million), and net income of KRW 10.1 billion (US$11.2 million) all on a consolidated basis. Compared to the previous quarter, sales rose 5%. Operating income and net income were down by 8% and 5%, respectively, when compared to the previous quarter.
By region, the percentage breakdown of sales for the third quarter shows 55% in Korea (US$47.9 million), and 45% from overseas entities and royalty income: US$15.1 million in North America, US$9.0 million in Europe, US$8.6 million in Japan, US$2.9 million in Taiwan, and royalty income of US$4.8 million. A successful release of Guild Wars: Eye of the North was a primary reason for 81% growth in sales over the previous quarter for Europe. Net sales in Taiwan rose by 15% over the previous quarter, thanks to the increase in Lineage II sales. Royalty sales increased by 20%, thanks to the strong Lineage sales in Taiwan.
By game title, sales in the quarter for Lineage recorded KRW 23.7 billion (US$26.2 million), Lineage II KRW 32.4 billion (US$35.8 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 5.7 billion (US$6.3 million), and Guild Wars® KRW 13.0 billion (US$14.4 million). Lineage and City of Heroes/City of Villains sales dropped 7% and 10%, respectively, and Lineage II and Guild Wars increased by 1% and 57%, respectively.
NCsoft CFO JaeHo Lee said, During the third quarter, sales in North America and Europe rose with the successful launch of the Guild Wars expansion pack. We expect to see an increase in fourth quarter sales with the newly launched Richard Garriotts Tabula Rasa®. Aion is in a closed beta testing process, and user responses are very positive.
As for the remainder of 2007, Atrix which is currently in open beta test will launch before the end of the year. In the first half of 2008, NCsoft plans to launch in Korea its highly anticipated MMORPG, Aion, and for casual games; a first person shooter Point Blank will enter closed beta testing as will side-scroll action games, Punch Monster and Dragonica.
2007 Q3 Consolidated Earnings Summary (Unit: KRW Mil)
Q3, 07
Q2, 07
Q3, 06
QoQ
YoY
Sales
80,050
75,882
84,981
5%
-6%
Operating Income
9,735
10,603
17,495
-8%
-44%
Net Income
10,075
10,562
12,801
-5%
-21%
NCsoft, the interlocking NC logo, Lineage, Guild Wars, Guild Wars: Eye of the North, Richard Garriotts Tabula Rasa, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Aion, Atrix, Point Blank, Punch Monster, Dragonica, PlayNC, PlayNC.com and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCsoft Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.
Contact:
NCsoft IR
Brian Min
brian@ncsoft.com
+82-2-2186-3330
http://www.plaync.com/us/news/2007/1...nounce_24.html
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Don't forget, Ex wrote something about a reward they cannot share with us yet.
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I'm going to be snarky here, it's my birthday so I'm going to use a free snark pass.
I hope that Ex Libris and Lighthouse are noting down the names of the people whining about not gettting something special so that they can be flagged not to get whatever they have under their hat.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Don't forget, Ex wrote something about a reward they cannot share with us yet.
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I'm going to be snarky here, it's my birthday so I'm going to use a free snark pass.
I hope that Ex Libris and Lighthouse are noting down the names of the people whining about not gettting something special so that they can be flagged not to get whatever they have under their hat.
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I also hope that Homeland Security is paying attention and that they are all put on the Terrorist Watch List and No Fly List.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO!!! What a ride!
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I also hope that Homeland Security is paying attention and that they are all put on the Terrorist Watch List and No Fly List.
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Oh I wouldn't go that far but people have far to much of a sense of entitlement. And it would be nice to see whining rewarded with no cake.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Happy birthday TerraDraconis. You deserve some cake. Because you're nice and fun, understanding, and enjoy it when other people are happy too. I can't eat the cake, I'm allergic to wheat, so you enjoy it for me, mmkay?
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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Let me turn this whole question around on you:
Why NOT offer an incentive to those who actually own a copy of both halves of the game?
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I actually do take offense to calling me not bright and point of fact I have worked in customer service for a while now.
Here is the thing. We have customer service, adressing problems, righting wrongs, making customers feel good about the product, and harboring loyalty to that product.
Then we have customer incentives, reasons to buy, reasons to keep a subscription
With NC softs new marketing they want to just sell COH and COV as one package and will give everyone access to it. This is a big incentive to new people and people with just one account. The incentive for people that already had both is that new players will come in. For heroes that means more people to team with. For Villains it means that now they have more of a say and more of a pull when it comes to getting new content because everyone has access to it now, plus more people. For me and for many people the biggest incentive to staying loyal is having fun. WHen I stop having fun NC soft stops getting my 15 a month. More people makes for a more interesting game. This game already has a vetran award program that gives an incentive for loyalty. While I see your and emnitys point about this being a good oportunity to gain more loyalty by offering an incentive to those that bought both sets a long time ago I believe that they gave the biggest incentive to stay which is announcing thier plan. I stay because its fun and because I know that things change and new issues are 4-5 months away. I don't think that giving a badge will really impact one way or the other how people will feel about this. I think that by outlining what changes are in the works and what direction they plan on taking things they gave an incentive to stay.
I dont have any problem with people questioning this on the basis of being a missed oportunity to gain more loyalty. I have a problem with the people who come here screaming about how NC soft just ripped them off and slapped them across the face because they are just giving full access for free now and now they want a refund.
Simply put. I think the vetrans who have been here and have had both games have already made up their minds on whether or not the game is worth being loyal to. That is not to say that they should be ignored because they shouldn't, they are an important part of the player base and the vetran awards reflect that. The biggest incentive that they can give is newer and better content on a regular basis and this announcment means that we will have more players on both sides and perhaps more equal treatment between red and blue side.
I guess the bottom line for me is that if NC soft wants to do something, and it looks like they will, thats fine and thats their decision. However no one who bought both games are entitled to get something because of this change.
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I guarantee if they introduced a "port directly from mission to mission upon completion" button in the next issue, we'd be hearing how lame it was to have to exit and use travel at all within a month.
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Suggestions like these are why I say it's a bad design decision. A few months after CoV launched, the question was posed - what's the purpose of zones, anyway? You never need to leave them, you barely need to travel inside them, there's nothing you necessarily need to see and there's certainly nothing you need to do in there. So why NOT allow people to just port between missions? That was suggested on the CoV board, and more than once.
And yes, it is bad design. Just as giving children all the sugar they crave is a bad decision. If my time here has proven one thing to me, it's that players don't KNOW what they want. There are plenty of things they THINK they want, but then when they get them proceed to complain to no end. You see, not everything has the effect it seems it will have.
People ask for a whole bunch of things. If you'd kowtow to every demand, then people would simply pay other people to play their game for them. A lot of those "better" things undermine what made the game good to begin with and what gave it a spirit worth sticking around for. You know, as opposed to the WalMart of MMOs where you subscribe, buy your jollies and then leave to go back home and play something else.
It is my opinion that making the game TOO easy, TOO simple, TOO fast and so forth is a bad design decision. It makes people go "Oh! Cool!" for a few moments, yes. But CoV proved that a game cannot survive on just that. Despite it being reputedly so much better, it has no more than half the players at CoH has at any given time. This tells me that simply handing the players everything they want on a silver platter is not a sure-fire road to success.
I stand by my statements. Restricting players to having to look at the damn Hell Fogre and nothing else for 10 levels straight is not a good idea. Rendering the very existence of outdoor zones obsolete is not a good idea. Making story arcs that don't tell a story whatsoever is not a good idea. CoV may be a crowning achievement for those who actually like it, but on the grand scheme of things it's little more than a watered-down version of CoH set in a perpetual ghetto, built out of exactly three colours, forcing extreme location monotony and, for all of its supposed enemy diversity, overfocusing on Longbow, the Circle of Thorns and Arachnos. It strikes me as a game not designed to be good so much as designed to sell well, quality be damned.
And as far as my eye can see, it is.
Keep in mind I own a CoV account and have probably over 2000 hours invested into it, in addition to it being what I'm playing right now, so I'm not ragging on a game I don't like. I do like it and I do play it a lot. But IF we get another expansionalone, then I'd like it to fix problems in a smart way, instead of the directly obvious way, because that's oftentimes about the worst solution to a problem.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You in case anyone hasn't seen it they put out the report for this quater today and once again in comperison to other tittles CoX is on the low side of the bring home. Lineage and lineage II had a tottal of close to $60 mill compared to CoX's $6 mill wonder what they think when we [censored] about so many things on here.
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Your thinking is flawed on this.
One glaring fact and difference with CoX and the other titles is that CoX has a much more limited release/support than those other titles. For example, CoX isn't supported or marketed in Japan yet the lineage titles are.
I suspect/hope that NC Soft plans to expand their markets and support for CoX. In doing so, its revenue could considerably increase and equal that of the lineage titles.
-Storm Revenant-
Fires Within: Lvl 50 Fire/Kinetics Controller (Champion)
Steamed: Lvl 50 Thugs/Dark Miasma Mastermind (Freedom)
that failed when they did it with Korea, but that was before Inventions... hmmm
Does not always detect CoH
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I actually do take offense to calling me not bright and point of fact I have worked in customer service for a while now.
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says the fellow who's user name is synonymous with customer anger and frustration.
Snort.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I stand by my statements.
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Great Sam, but that doesn't make them any more accurate or relevant.
You persistently advocate positions based on your quirky view of the perfect game, which is fine.
But just once try entertaining the thought that the large number of people who disagree with your notions have a point with regards to what the larger population of games enjoy/are interested in.
You have a lot in common with PP.
Both of you have very specific notions of gameplay that are wildly at odds with what most people like/want, and both of you respond to alternative points of view with the same brand of obtuse incomprehension.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Don't give me that 'customer service' song and dance. It's a bogus argument because it relies on the assumption that NCSoft should 'make it up' to you for doing something wrong or slighting you. They have done neither.
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Customer service and customer incentives are two different functions.
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Actually, I would say that Customer Service includes two things:
[*] Corrective Care[*] Incentives
IOW, the disbursement of customer incentives is part of Customer Service. ^_^
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Let me turn this whole question around on you:
Why NOT offer an incentive to those who actually own a copy of both halves of the game?
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I actually do take offense to calling me not bright and point of fact I have worked in customer service for a while now.
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I feel bad for your customers, then. No, seriously, I do - you've missed a huge part of good customer service.
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I have a problem with the people who come here screaming about how NC soft just ripped them off and slapped them across the face because they are just giving full access for free now and now they want a refund.
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I saw no such screaming. I've done no such screaming. Hyperbole, much?
There has been a fair amount of "I feel ripped off" "I lost money" etc, type stuff. Perhaps not from you, but its been somewhat widespread in the various threads.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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But just once try entertaining the thought that the large number of people who disagree with your notions have a point with regards to what the larger population of games enjoy/are interested in.
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Oh, I understand that many people do not agree with me. That is a notion that I've entertained for... What is it now... 15 years? Thereabout. For about as long as I've had friends, more or less. Se believe me, I know. That does not mean, however, that I have to agree with it, specifically when it's all a matter of opinion as discussed.
Furthermore, what I'm debating isn't the validity of other people's opinions, as I'm well aware many people like what CoV has to offer. What I am saying is more along the lines that CoV nevertheless actually offers very LITTLE in terms of actual content and has seen very little in terms of development time as compared to CoH. I have my gripes and my reasons, but the bottom of my argument is that while the new stuff CoV did "right" are no reason why at least some of the old stuff that CoH did right couldn't have crossed over.
I've said this many times - I don't like CoH multi-zoning and I don't want it retrofitted into CoV. But by the same token, I want SOME zoning in CoV, because currently there is a flat none. I don't specifically like all of the stories in CoH, but some are good and follow a pattern that is completely and utterly non-existent in CoV, and I see no reason for this.
That's all I'm trying to say. I appreciate the new things CoV did, but I don't see why all the things CoH did were outright dropped when many were worth keeping.
I'm obviously not explaining something well. I realise this comes off as "What you like is wrong and you don't know nothin'!" but that's not my intent at all. Like or dislike the new additions, I do not see why they had to override EVERYTHING. I don't believe in changing things just for the sake of changing them and I don't believe in changing things completely and utterly. Old designs can sometimes be good, and even when they're not, they still provide a change of pace from just the same thing over and over again.
To my eyes, CoV tried to do a lot, changed a lot it didn't need to, but didn't actually have enough content worked into it to be a separate game. Penny-pinching passed for good design when zones were unified and travel reduced, while at the same time fortuitously making for fewer zones that needed to be designed and less of an organic means of travel between them being required. And because that seems to address a problem players have outlined, everyone sees it as a brilliant design decision, whereas I see it as a move to save a buck on extra zones.
Basically, what I'm saying is that if CoH is one extreme with its problems, swinging all the way over into the opposite extreme is a bad way to solve these problems, if only because it solves some problems but not others and then brings its own problems on top of that. A comprehensive "fixing" of CoH only where needed and only in moderation would have been the smart thing in my opinion. A "let's change everything" approach wasn't.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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how did this become a cov vs Coh Discussion, we have other threads for that
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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how did this become a cov vs Coh Discussion, we have other threads for that
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*edit*
Just to save a bunch of people the effort of having to hit "Quote."
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hey all
Wow, it's been a whirlwind couple of days that I haven't had much time to sit down and throw in my two cents on the whole thing.
I don't know if you guys know this, but I've been working on City of Heroes since the early part of of 2002....lonnnnng before we launched.
And it has been the absolute greatest experience for me. I had the dream story of how I started in this business (which is truly rare) and how I got to work on a project with a handful of other people to put together this game called City of Heroes. I had no idea how it would be received when it first came out.
From the first day of open beta to each time I sneak on and say hi to people, either as War Witch or my normal characters, you guys are the reason (besides my team, which I adore) that I love doing what I do.
You laugh at my silly NPC comments and easter eggs and you have been nothing but wonderful and supportive since day one.
I'm not going to lie, the decision to leave Cryptic was hard for me. They gave me my start and I will always be grateful for everything they've done for me. Having said that, I LOVE City of Heroes and I love you guys and, ultimately, the choice to stay with the project was a no-brainer.
I'm also thrilled that everyone else who came on board, did. One of the greatest joys I have in working with my team is getting a chance to get to know every single one of them and care about them as if they were an extension of my family (okay, fine, I'm less snarky with my team). What this means is plenty of feeding of food and laughter around cubes.
Ultimately, a job is a job, but it's the people who really make it worth it and I love my team. I'm not being cheesy or trying to sell you anything, I truly do. I work with some top-notch people and they (and you guys, of course) are the reason why I love coming to work each morning.
I am truly blessed to have the job that I do and I'm grateful that I get to do it, every day (even on the days when it sucks - yes, there are those days on occasion) with people who are so hard-working and talented.
NCsoft has been nothing but amazing to me since the first day I met them way back when we were working out of the Jury Court office and I really do enjoy working alongside them every day.
I haven't read all of the comments about how everyone is reacting to the news, but if you do want my opinion (looks like I'm giving it anyway), I'm excited. I'm excited and happy and I will stick around on City of Heroes/Villains as long as they'll have me.
(Man, I can yap when I feel like it...sorry, got all misty-eyed there.)
So to you guys, who have been most faithful over the years and to anyone who is new, I definitely look forward to many more awesome issues and times together with you. You guys are the reason I'm here and I couldn't be happier.
Great. Now I have writer's cramp.
Love you guys!
Melissa
AKA War Witch
"The challenge of leadership is to be strong, but not rude; be kind, but not weak; be bold, but not a bully; be thoughtful, but not lazy; be humble, but not timid; be proud, but not arrogant; have humor, but without folly."
(Jim Rohn)
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*baffeled & shakes head*
I completely agree with Pax. Those of us who have invested in both CoH, CoV, preorder, DVD collectors editions, GvE pack, etc. should get thrown some sort of bone.
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Why? You got what you paid for from each and every one of them. The 'rewards' being given out don't slight you in the least.
Don't give me that 'customer service' song and dance. It's a bogus argument because it relies on the assumption that NCSoft should 'make it up' to you for doing something wrong or slighting you. They have done neither.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/