Discussion: Issue 11 "A Stitch In Time"
By
1_800_Spines,
Posted on: 2007-10-02 13:08 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Where is the contact that sets you up with the Ouroboros?
I remember someone saying it, but I forgot
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First, you have to be lvl 25 AFAIR.
Second, you have to be Entrusted with the Secret. This involves completing a stroy arc that involves time Travel, like Echo Down the Aeons, the Mysterious Mr. Ubelman, the Psychochronometron arc (from Faultline), etc.
When you are Entrusted with the Secret, you'll get an Ouroboros power that places a teleport pad on the ground. Go through this, and you'll go to the Ouroboros sanctuary. Talk to Pilgrim to get started.
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Or you can hop into someone else's portal, and get the chrononaut exploration badge at the top of the tower in Ouroboros to then get the "Secret" badge.
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Yep, as long as you're lvl 25+.
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Dear Auto Repair shop,
I am writing this letter to you in disgust in regards to your repair service.
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I bow to your wonderful writing of sarcasm and metaphor, and all the words that apply to your wonderful little "letter" heh. 
Let me again clarify that I'm happy to be given a gift. There was no reason they HAD to give a freespec out, but the fact remains that they did.
Also, you're wrong on one point. I don't have to wait a week. I have to wait a week in ADDITION to the time I've already been waiting since discovering that I did not in fact have to spend time remaking a toon and regrinding to 50 just to fix some powers.
Needless to say, when I read that everyone was getting a free respec (I am 99% sure it did NOT say it would be held back until the 7th in that particular post) I was extremely happy. Realizing that someone goofed up on the costume tokens, and moments later finding out that the freespec was held back so that the players who (let me say it again) already have free or very cheap respecs waiting to be used, did indeed make me a little angry. That's the summary of what led to my first post, if you can't see where it came from.
And while I know it's a futile argument, I've kept posting for three reasons:
1) I'd prefer to get my point of view across to the devs, which I believe I've done, so that they might at least consider it.
2) People like yourself continue to bring up the argument that waiting is more "fair to everyone" and I stand by my reasoning against that.
A) If you have a respec sitting on your character, you obviously have not needed it and will likely continue to not need it. To argue against this is nothing but greed; "I have one, but why be happy with that when I can have two (one for now and one to save)?"
B) If you just made a toon after the i11 launch, you cannot possibly have any reasonable need for a respec. I am pretty sure that no character needs one before at least the first TV TF. Even I saved two of mine until 50, and because I experimented for myself instead of checking the forums, I didn't end up with very good powers.
C) Believe it or not, handing out the freespec later DOES take away from my fun. The new Ouroboros missions look kinda cool, but missions aren't where the fun is for me. I could be playing right now with my new powers, but instead I either have to grind for the respec or wait. Neither is fun in any way, especially adding the respec grind to the IO grind. So I'm left to wait... how much am I paying them a month so I can HAVE FUN? Will they refund a fourth of my month's subscription? Nope. So I'm paying them so I can wait if I take that option.
3) I have nothing better to do atm, a side effect of being first stuck at work, then home without plans. Since I'm waiting for the freespec, I might as well look through the forums and post.
No, I'm not screaming about the end of the world here. IIRC my original post was hotheaded, and I apologize for being angry at the time. My second post, though, showed my view on the descision and why I thought it was a mistake, and hopefully it'll make the devs consider that viewpoint if any similar situation ever arises. That was my initial goal. They're not perfect, or all-knowing, and if we don't post our opinions then they won't know what the players think. So far, CoH has been better than any other MMO I've played at listening to the players.
And my posts are lengthy because I type fast and want to be clear when I post, so they end up being long reads. If you don't want to read them, no one's making you.
So I have gone back to replay some missed story archs. Is it just me or do the bad guys in the missions have crazy range. I mean they are seeing and hitting me the second I see them at the end of a long hall way.
Anonym, the reason you're catching heat is because your reasoning is fundamentally selfish. You're suggesting, repeatedly, that the dev's decision is a "mistake" or a bad call, because it doesn't benefit -your- situation. Your situation is, by your most recent post, a bit on the unique side. You have no interest in enjoying the new content, you just want your new powers, and you want them -now-.
But a host of other players have just rolled up new characters. Some months from now, when it's months to go before another freespec is likely, -They- may be stuck with bad power choices, and what will you say to -them- then? "Sorry you didn't get a freespec, but I needed mine -right- then to keep having fun."?
Sure, they have three respec trials available to them. To get to them, they have to grind their levels up to the appropriate level. Or they could buy them through the market, but that, again, would require them to grind to spend money. All while suffering through their lamentable bad power choices, as you are.
You have to wait an extra week. These people, and there's many of them, may have to wait months for another freespec.
I appreciate that you're disappointed, but your complaints aren't justified from a big picture perspective. You might as well complain about the hair color you were born with, or the fact that clouds aren't made of cotton candy, for all the good this will do you, and your refusal to see the situation from any perspective apart from its impact on your personal gain is painting you in a bad light.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
I honestly don't see my reasoning as any more selfish than their reasoning; after all, it doesn't really seem possible to me that you'd need to respec before the mid 20s, when the first TF is available. "Just so I can have it for later" is certainly as selfish as anything I've said. My first time through the 20s was on this exact same toon and I recall only making one bad power choice. No help from the forums, no outside advice, just picking what looked good. Granted, it was a regen scrapper which are pretty easy going, but it's still unlikely anyone would need a respec before the 20s.
And of course there are more level 1s than 50s like mine, that's because there are two new powersets. that doesn't make my situation unique, but that's irrelevant anyway. It seems people are using the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" argument when the few don't really need any of it. Heck, I'd go so far as to say my character doesn't "need" a respec, he'll still function without it, but not nearly as well as he could, which translates to less fun. If this were a WoW loot contest, they'd be rolling greed while I rolled need, if you want an analogy.
If part of why I come across as being self-centered is the liberal use of "I" in my posts, it's because I speak _my_ mind, and am sharing what _I_ think, and can't say anything for anyone else. I could say "some people" , because you can be pretty certain that others would have benefitted greatly from the freespec being released early, but I'd rather not put words in their mouths.
My game won't update, anyone got any ideas why? I open the game and the window opens, but then closes and reopens for the update, upon reopening it does nothing else. It keeps saying "the page cannot be displayed" upon launch. I let it go for over half an hour yesterday and tried a total of 11 times to connect including two reboots of the system. As of today it has not connected 15 times. I have no "third party" add ons or anything like that.
Thanks for any help.
You know what would make this issue SO much better.... if we can change the color of the sledge hammer!
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Let me again clarify that I'm happy to be given a gift. There was no reason they HAD to give a freespec out, but the fact remains that they did.
Also, you're wrong on one point. I don't have to wait a week. I have to wait a week in ADDITION to the time I've already been waiting since discovering that I did not in fact have to spend time remaking a toon and regrinding to 50 just to fix some powers.
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I cannot believe you posted all that. Including everything after my eyes glazed over. I've played this game since launch. I played Regen when you didn't even become survivable until Instant Healing (at which point it became God Mode). There were no such things as "Repsecs" when I started playing. We knew they were coming, but we also knew we had to wait. I remade characters left and right because of errors in power choices at that time. Guess what? I got over it. All of your posts have been "whine whine whine, moan moan moan, this is inconveniencing MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!11!". At least, that's how they read to me. And you act all surprised that people are calling you on it. You're either very young or very spoiled, I can't decide which.
Yes, it would have been great if the freespec came at launch of the Issue. Of course, they haven't ever done it that way before, but it woulda been nice for them to completely change how they do it just this one time.
Kung Ru - 50++ MA/Regen Scrapper
Kalleesta - 50 Necro/Dark MM
Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
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Yes, it would have been great if the freespec came at launch of the Issue. Of course, they haven't ever done it that way before, but it woulda been nice for them to completely change how they do it just this one time.
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So, you DO agree with (or at the very least understand) my point then? Yes, it would have been great. Yes, it would have been nice. Yes, the reasons given by Lighthouse for not giving the freespec at launch were, in my opinion, flawed. Having posted my reasoning here, I'm reasonably certain the devs will at least glance at it, and the chances are that much better that they'll make exceptions to how they "always" do it when it makes sense to do things differently.
As to the rest of your post... You're bringing up history. I'm aware of the lack of respecs when CoH first launched, but fortunately that's not the case anymore.
I also am not whining just because "this is inconviniencing me". It was my intention to discuss how one specific part of the launch could have been better, and my reasons why. I have absolutely no interest in discussing how things were when the game was just beginning.
And the "Be grateful, it could be worse" argument is tired and sad. I already expressed gratitude plenty of times, and actually I've only done one thing besides that: state my reasons for being upset with this one part of the new issue's launch. I'm saying, "This is how it could have been better" while you and a few others are replying, "Well, this is how it could be worse, so shut up."
I certainly hope the devs like to always think of how they could do better, and consider all the options for each situation, because otherwise you end up making no progress. From what I've seen, they do their best, but argue with me on that if you want.
since im still waiting on my game to update i guess ill ask
for the weapon customizing, are the weapons still one colored like on the test server? or is there a use for the second color
All the claw weapons I looked at had two colors, besides the legacy ones of course
Swords have two colors where you can apply color (a couple of the weapons don't take tints). The swords the blade is the primary (left) color and the hilt is the secondary (right) color.
Anonym,
If the respec was given out when I11 went live, NOT ONE of all of the new characters that are being created would have gotten it.. AT ALL, because they were CREATED AFTER THE FREESPEC WAS GIVEN OUT. Delaying the respec was the ONLY way to allow the majority of people to be able to get it.
Many times people make a character, and discover that a power isn't what they wanted, the animation doesn't turn them on, find that it doesn't suit their character concept. This is especially true when new powersets are made available. Very little in the way of guides are available for the new sets. People are going to misunderstand how things work, ESPECIALLY with these powers being new.
By giving out the respec later, the Devs are being QUITE thoughtful to all of these new characters. If they had given out the respec BEFORE all of these characters had been then it would almost have been a slap in the face to all of the people wanting to play these new characters, as it would have ONLY rewarded older characters. With this way, both new AND old can take the benefit of it.
Arc #1267 The Key of Brass and Flame
As I've mentioned before, if you need a respec before level 24, something's horribly wrong. The Terra Volta TF is in no way unreasonably time-consuming or difficult. And the vast majority of the level 1's running around after launch were almost certainly not total newbies who couldn't make it to 24 because of a bad power choice. Please go back and read some of my posts, as Lighthouse's response to my very first post brought up that issue and my next post (as well as several after it) explained what I've said yet again in THIS post.
Enough people brag about being able to get to level 50 within a week that by the time the freespec rolls out, most of these people should have three (or more) respecs available.
Those who desperately need a respec are likely to also have little experience and therefore take much longer than a week to level up, and by the time they have enough powers to even merit a respec, the cost of respecs could very well be low enough to be a real option for those of us without tons of time or luck.
Like I said before, they'd be rolling greed ("I might need it later, even though I have three free ones already!") while I'd be rolling need ("I can use this now, and have a genuine need for it").
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As I've mentioned before, if you need a respec before level 24, something's horribly wrong. The Terra Volta TF is in no way unreasonably time-consuming or difficult. And the vast majority of the level 1's running around after launch were almost certainly not total newbies who couldn't make it to 24 because of a bad power choice. Please go back and read some of my posts, as Lighthouse's response to my very first post brought up that issue and my next post (as well as several after it) explained what I've said yet again in THIS post.
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Nobody -needs- a respec. You don't -need- a respec. I'm willing to bet that you can still play the game even with your current power setup. You just don't enjoy it as much. It's just as possible for someone to feel that lack of enjoyment before level 24 as it is after: to want to change out their
Hell, with the advent of IO's, and the sudden -value- in enhancements, maybe somebody might wish to change their -slotting- to get the most out of their money.
Stop playing the "they don't need it" card. Neither do you. But they might -want- it. And if you getting your respec a week later allows all those new characters to get their respecs -months- earlier, then I'm sorry, but I don't think you're speaking in the best interests of the community. I don't think you're even trying to -think- of the interests of anyone but yourself. In fact I know you're not.
Consider, you're the only person really complaining about this. Most people, at least here, are grateful for the opportunity to use their old freespec, or for the chance to have a freespec on their new characters. Now I'll be the first to point out that the forums are not nessecarily an accurate cross section of the playerbase, but in this particular case, I think it means something that you haven't got any "backup" on this one.
You may "need" your respec more then any one or even maybe any dozen of those players. But there are thousands of people who could potentially benefit from the dev's decision, and you're the only one complaining here. And all -you- have to do to get your respec is wait a freaking week.
Deal with it.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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Needless to say, when I read that everyone was getting a free respec (I am 99% sure it did NOT say it would be held back until the 7th in that particular post)
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And I am 99% sure it did NOT say that it would be granted immediately upon I11, either. And they've never done it that way before. So why did you expect them to change?
Dude, it sucks that you screwed up your character so badly that you can't play him. It sucks that you can't get it right after three respec trials plus however many freespecs from the issues plus however many respects from veteran badges you have.
But you know what? If you've respeced that many times and still not gotten it right, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for you, because you obviously have some sort of severe planning deficit - especially since with a minimum of forethought you can have infinite respecs using the test server.
The kicker here is that you seem not to realize how crazy selfish you sound. "I don't care about anyone else's respec because they can't possibly need it as bad as me! Me! ME!"
It's a game. Roll up a different character, go forth, and play. It'll be Dec 7th before you know it, you can waste your new freespec and still not be satisfied, and then you can get on with grinding for a recipe.
J
I can't possibly imagine a scenario in which these new players won't get a respec for months. Seriously, that is the lamest argument I've ever heard. If you're taking MONTHS to get to level 24, you must be paying $15 a month to play maybe an hour a week.
Like you said, nobody -needs- a respec. I believe I mentioned that my character doesn't strictly need one, but not having one will cut into my enjoyment of the game for a week, while all these new toons everyone's worried about have levelling up and playing with their new powers to do.
This game already has a significant lack of endgame content compared to many MMOs. Why make the decision based on the level 1's with the whole game's story arcs and level grinding ahead of them?
Hell, I bet half the reason I don't have any people posting in favor of my argument is that most of you made a new toon, so YOU benefit from the decision. That may or may not be the case, but since it's the most likely scenario I'll go with it. Don't bother posting "oh no, I didn't make a new toon" because there's no way for anyone to tell if it's the truth. I personally made no new toon, so all I get is a week-long wait.
By the time they get to a high enough level to have burned through all three TV task forces, chances are good the price of respec recipes will be within the "reasonable" range. 25-27 million (last time I looked) is not reasonable when you'll get another one within a week for free.
DoctorNuncheon:
First, I've had three respecs, because I've never gotten one from an issue or vet reward. While your attacks on my planning ability are cute, it's a pretty lame argument; you even managed to somehow assume everyone has the Test server available to them. In case you forgot, not everyone has the HD space for an entire second copy of the game. As an added bonus, you seem to assume I know as much about CoH as you do. That's truly a horrible way to think of things; IIRC the post was something to the effect of "Players will get a free respec along with i11" which, as I had little experience with this new-issue-freespec policy, made me think "Oh, when i11 launches players get a free respec."
Second, it's my first toon. You're bound to make mistakes, especially when you try things out for yourself rather than going to the forums and finding a FotM or adhering to the hundred and one conflicting ideas for the "best" powers and ATs.
Third, I don't like grinding to 50. I don't have a farming toon, so no bonus inf unless I bankrupt my main. I don't know any PLers and don't have any desire to seek one out to ask for help.
Fourth, I never once said my character is unplayable, and that's a really stupid argument to make. You'd be hard-pressed to make an unplayable character. However, while a new toon can get new powers by grinding, I can't.
Fifth, as I mentioned before, I refuse to speak in terms of "everyone" or "most players" if I can help it, because I won't put words in their mouths. So yes, you're going to see a whole lot of "I I I ME ME ME" since I'm describing MY situation.
Need another analogy? Here:
You're suggesting something similar to giving out welfare to the rich along with the poor, and making it take longer for the poor to get it to boot. Of course everyone can use the money, but who has a greater need? This may not be the best example, but it's as valid as any of the various misinterpretations and attacks launched at my argument.
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You're suggesting something similar to giving out welfare to the rich along with the poor
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You know, I broke my own commandment about arguing on the internet. I apologize to everyone whose time I wasted with these posts.
Anonym: sorry you have to wait a week. Be patient. It won't kill you. Be glad that other people get a gift too - it doesn't devalue yours in any way.
Nope, just makes me wait longer. (Editted: makes US wait longer, so I don't sound so selfish to you... I can use "us" here because there's no denying the wait 
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And you're right, arguing over the internet doesn't ever seem to lead anywhere. Look at the past 15 or so posts, you'll basically see my original point and Lighthouse's original points getting thrown back and forth with no one adding anything and many people selecting single parts of my posts to reply to while ignoring the rest of the post and all before it. I've tried in most cases to consider every part of each post against my argument, and you (the people arguing against me) still have yet to offer a good reason for level 1's needing respecs besides "Oh, but what if they might possibly need it waaay down the road?" Way down the road we'll have reasonably priced respec recipes.
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I've tried in most cases to consider every part of each post against my argument, and you (the people arguing against me) still have yet to offer a good reason for level 1's needing respecs besides "Oh, but what if they might possibly need it waaay down the road?" Way down the road we'll have reasonably priced respec recipes.
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This seems like a perfectly reasonable agument. From what I saw with the WW and Invention system on release, I'm surprised that you're finding respec recipes for 25-27 million. I wouldn't expect respec recipes to ever reach a reasonable price. They will be the most sought after items at auction.
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While your attacks on my planning ability are cute, it's a pretty lame argument; you even managed to somehow assume everyone has the Test server available to them.
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Earlier you used this same argument, that people with the new DB and willpower characters should have used the Test server.
My advice to you is to create yourself another character and wait for the freespec. You've said that you aren't interested in the new missions and that the level 50 content is not up to your standards, so why is it that you must change your capable playing character now.
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I've tried in most cases to consider every part of each post against my argument, and you (the people arguing against me) still have yet to offer a good reason for level 1's needing respecs besides "Oh, but what if they might possibly need it waaay down the road?" Way down the road we'll have reasonably priced respec recipes.
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This seems like a perfectly reasonable agument. From what I saw with the WW and Invention system on release, I'm surprised that you're finding respec recipes for 25-27 million. I wouldn't expect respec recipes to ever reach a reasonable price. They will be the most sought after items at auction.
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While your attacks on my planning ability are cute, it's a pretty lame argument; you even managed to somehow assume everyone has the Test server available to them.
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Earlier you used this same argument, that people with the new DB and willpower characters should have used the Test server.
My advice to you is to create yourself another character and wait for the freespec. You've said that you aren't interested in the new missions and that the level 50 content is not up to your standards, so why is it that you must change your capable playing character now.
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I doubt respec recipes will remain so high after the freespec, and IIRC I said test was an option for some, along with reading some forums posts, etc.
I personally don't have access to Test with this computer and I find that while a lot of the info on the forums is useful, it's not something to go by all the time. Besides, making your own character without using a model set up by others is more rewarding, IMO.
As to the last part of your post, level 50 "content" is improving your toon with IOs, making your costumes better, getting badges, and in some cases changing powers to a better build. Grinding back to 50 might be fun for some, but not for me personally.
*Edit: Another valid part of endgame content is PvP, but at this point my toon would get laughed out of RV or the Arena in any serious fight.
How long will issue 11 last
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Where is the contact that sets you up with the Ouroboros?
I remember someone saying it, but I forgot
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First, you have to be lvl 25 AFAIR.
Second, you have to be Entrusted with the Secret. This involves completing a stroy arc that involves time Travel, like Echo Down the Aeons, the Mysterious Mr. Ubelman, the Psychochronometron arc (from Faultline), etc.
When you are Entrusted with the Secret, you'll get an Ouroboros power that places a teleport pad on the ground. Go through this, and you'll go to the Ouroboros sanctuary. Talk to Pilgrim to get started.
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Or you can hop into someone else's portal, and get the chrononaut exploration badge at the top of the tower in Ouroboros to then get the "Secret" badge.