Invention Enhancements and You: by Castle
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2007-04-03 10:13 in The Market and Inventions
Thanks, EG! Beat me to it.
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Try to min-max as much as possible.
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If you insist 
Although, I'm guessing it'll be hard to minmax unless the salvage/recipies are dropping like flies as it'll take quite a while to get to a full HOed/IOed state.
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Try to min-max as much as possible.
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If you insist
Although, I'm guessing it'll be hard to minmax unless the salvage/recipies are dropping like flies as it'll take quite a while to get to a full HOed/IOed state.
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Do it on the numbers. It's really easy to see where the problems are if you just know how it all works.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Try to min-max as much as possible.
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If you insist
Although, I'm guessing it'll be hard to minmax unless the salvage/recipies are dropping like flies as it'll take quite a while to get to a full HOed/IOed state.
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Do it on the numbers. It's really easy to see where the problems are if you just know how it all works.
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I've done that already. I don't know if +100% acc, +100% dam, +70% end and recharge count as problem areas though.
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Try to min-max as much as possible.
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If you insist
Although, I'm guessing it'll be hard to minmax unless the salvage/recipies are dropping like flies as it'll take quite a while to get to a full HOed/IOed state.
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Do it on the numbers. It's really easy to see where the problems are if you just know how it all works.
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Iakona's beta planner for Excel (he's got one for OpenOffice too) makes this a bit easier.
Kam
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Try to min-max as much as possible.
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If you insist
Although, I'm guessing it'll be hard to minmax unless the salvage/recipies are dropping like flies as it'll take quite a while to get to a full HOed/IOed state.
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Do it on the numbers. It's really easy to see where the problems are if you just know how it all works.
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I've done that already. I don't know if +100% acc, +100% dam, +70% end and recharge count as problem areas though.
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With attacks, look for things like:
Procs - This is a big one. Look for powers that seem to take a WHOLE lot of additional effects. The big problem with procs has been fixed though.
To-hit set bonuses - This one is going to be sneaky. I don't think it's the best PvE option, but I'm a little concerned at how much to-hit there is out there. Defense is basically screwed in PvP, even more so than it has been before I think.
Other than that, it's more important in min-maxing to look at the forest, not the trees. Try not to thing about particular powers, but how the whole works together. Often times that's where it get's broken.
For example, there are regen and healing boosts in the heal sets. Things to consider is what that does not just to individual powers, but to a character's complete damage mitigation profile. This is more a problem for things like Invul than for regen, IMO. It's the things you aren't thinking off.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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To-hit set bonuses - This one is going to be sneaky. I don't think it's the best PvE option, but I'm a little concerned at how much to-hit there is out there. Defense is basically screwed in PvP, even more so than it has been before I think.
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I'm going to agree here. Two slotting IOs gives you something like 88 percent, up from 66 percent. Acc is fairly common to two-slot in PvP. This means that a SR's slotting will be pretty well floored by every player, and thanks to ED, increased slotting won't help all that much. Slot 3 IOs and you're still going to be 98% or so, same as three SO+3s.
Ah, well. Sucks to be us. I'll be available for testing when needed.
PERC Supporter
La Pucelle (BS/SR)
Miseria Bella (Sonic/Dark)
Wrangler Annie (SS/Elec)
Coldsmoke (Ice/Dark)
Saber Maid (BS/Regen)
and others...
I weep for my poor MA/SR in PvP.
=T.T=
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To-hit set bonuses - This one is going to be sneaky. I don't think it's the best PvE option, but I'm a little concerned at how much to-hit there is out there. Defense is basically screwed in PvP, even more so than it has been before I think.
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Where are the tohit buffs? I only see one in the paragonwiki info, which is the unique in Kismet.
+accuracy can cause issues, but +tohit is considerably worse for defense in pvp, I think.
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Where are the tohit buffs? I only see one in the paragonwiki info, which is the unique in Kismet.
+accuracy can cause issues, but +tohit is considerably worse for defense in pvp, I think.
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According to Arcanaville, everywhere you see "Accuracy" listed as a set bonus, it's actually To-Hit buff.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
Procs are definitely a big one to look at. I'm sure its a bug, but right now, Shiver takes Targeted AoE and Slow Sets. That means I could slot the Procs from Positron's Blast and Impeded Swiftness in it. Which would be sort of absurd.
Siren's Song+Call of The Sandman's Chance to Heal proc seems like it might be a wee bit broken as well.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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Where are the tohit buffs? I only see one in the paragonwiki info, which is the unique in Kismet.
+accuracy can cause issues, but +tohit is considerably worse for defense in pvp, I think.
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According to Arcanaville, everywhere you see "Accuracy" listed as a set bonus, it's actually To-Hit buff.
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ouuuuchhhh.
I don't really understand the advancement table. What are the four columns representing?
This may not be the right thread for this question or not, but with the IO sets and ED, could this possibly mean that Elude could be one-slotted and that the right IO set would cover all of the enhancements available to Elude? I know that sounds like a far out (and possibly confunsing) question, but it's the concept.
IO sets, based on everything I have read thusfar and my understanding of ED, would further reduce the number of slots that are needed for a power. Granted my first illustration is likely not feasible, but what about another power, like headsplitter? Right now, I have it 6-slotted with various enhancements and HOs. With IO sets, would this mean that I could reduce a 6-slotted power down to, say, 3? or even less?
Let me know if this isn't clear or if I'm corn-fusing everyone
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I don't really understand the advancement table. What are the four columns representing?
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Those columns are enhancement schedules: A, B, C, and D.
A being things like Accuracy and Damage (and many others); B including Defense, Resistance, and Range; C is Interrupt, and D is Knockback.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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I don't really understand the advancement table. What are the four columns representing?
[/ QUOTE ]There are four enhancement schedules.
Schedule A SOs give 33% enhancement - this is the second column. These enhancements are things like ACC and Damage.
Schedule B SO give 20% - this is the first column. Defense, resistance, etc.
The other two are pretty rare - IIRC, the 40% is Schedule D (third column) and Knockback is the only thing I can think of that uses it.
Don't recall any Schedule Cs off the top of my head.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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# A crafted enhancement with 1 attribute (Damage, Hold, Range, etc) multiplies the level value of an enhancement by 1.0; in other words, it grants full value.
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Maybe I'm way behind the learning curve here but the crafted enhancements that I was looking at today - comparing them to my level 50+s seem to be about +7.5% stronger across the board. Making a single crafted enhancement look like a nice little improvement over a 50++ - or any ++ enhancement for that matter.
PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong or looking at this incorrectly.
The split crafted enhancements on the other hand look to be almost exactly along the lines described here and significantly weaker than a Hami Enhancement.
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IO sets, based on everything I have read thusfar and my understanding of ED, would further reduce the number of slots that are needed for a power. Granted my first illustration is likely not feasible, but what about another power, like headsplitter? Right now, I have it 6-slotted with various enhancements and HOs. With IO sets, would this mean that I could reduce a 6-slotted power down to, say, 3? or even less?
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In many cases, yes ... that's one way to look at it.
The way I tend to think of it is closer to ... in most (if not all) cases, a complete IO set will provide more overall enhancement from a number of slots than you can get if those slots were filled with SOs. For example, currently a complete Doctored Wounds set (at level 50) provides something like this:
EnduranceRed: +75.5%
Healing: +97.9%
Recharge: +97.9%
Bonus: FearRes +2.2%
Bonus: FireColdRes +1.3%
Bonus: ImprovedHeal +4.0%
Bonus: RechargeTime +5.0%
Bonus: ToxicPsionicRes +1.3%
That's more than eight SOs of enhancement for an investment of six slots. So yes, sets can give you more enhancement in fewer slots. Some of the lower- and mid-level sets only take up four or five slots, but they're worth five or six SOs of enhancement. In those cases you can add more slots to supplement them, or decide that what they give you is good enough and invest the slots somewhere else. Sometimes it will also depend on whether the next bonus you could get is a really nice one.
You can also mix sets within a single power to emphasize the things you want to enhance most, assuming you can find the right recipes. The possibilities are almost endless, and there are some wicked nice combinations.
The benefits to using them are similar to HOs, and in a few cases the amount of enhancement you get is very comparable to HOs.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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Maybe I'm way behind the learning curve here but the crafted enhancements that I was looking at today - comparing them to my level 50+s seem to be about +7.5% stronger across the board. Making a single crafted enhancement look like a nice little improvement over a 50++ - or any ++ enhancement for that matter.
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You're correct. The best IOs you can craft are several +% higher than any SO.
They have to be, in return for the investment.
Note that as a result of ED, replacing SOs with IOs is most effective when you're using only one or two of that type. Three IOs of one type get reduced pretty significantly by ED, just like SOs. Two IOs of a type will be reduced somewhat by ED too, but not too badly.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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The split crafted enhancements on the other hand look to be almost exactly along the lines described here and significantly weaker than a Hami Enhancement.
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One for one, yes. A two- or three- (or four-) aspect IO is worth less per side individually than a comparable HO. HOs get 100% of their value per aspect; that amount is reduced for IOs. This was necessary so IOs wouldn't completely overpower HOs.
Complete six-piece sets of IOs continue to compliment each others' values though, so high-level finished sets are often competitive with HO slotting.
It's hard to beat three Nucs + 3 SOs, or three Golgis + 3 SOs, but some sets are close, and some of them also provide nice bonuses. You can also mix HOs with IOs in any combination that suits your purposes.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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The split crafted enhancements on the other hand look to be almost exactly along the lines described here and significantly weaker than a Hami Enhancement.
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One for one, yes. A two- or three- (or four-) aspect IO is worth less per side individually than a comparable HO. HOs get 100% of their value per aspect; that amount is reduced for IOs. This was necessary so IOs wouldn't completely overpower HOs.
Complete six-piece sets of IOs continue to compliment each others' values though, so high-level finished sets are often competitive with HO slotting.
It's hard to beat three Nucs + 3 SOs, or three Golgis + 3 SOs, but some sets are close, and some of them also provide nice bonuses. You can also mix HOs with IOs in any combination that suits your purposes.
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To be exact:
1 lvl 50 One-part IO = 1.25 even SO (according to Castle - I've seen them up to about 1.275, but with the rounding done ingame it's hard to tell)
Two-part IO = .625 One-part IO for two attributes
Three-part IO = .5 One-part IO for three attributes
Four-part IO = .4375 One-part IO for four attributes
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Maybe I'm way behind the learning curve here but the crafted enhancements that I was looking at today - comparing them to my level 50+s seem to be about +7.5% stronger across the board. Making a single crafted enhancement look like a nice little improvement over a 50++ - or any ++ enhancement for that matter.
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You're correct. The best IOs you can craft are several +% higher than any SO.
They have to be, in return for the investment.
Note that as a result of ED, replacing SOs with IOs is most effective when you're using only one or two of that type. Three IOs of one type get reduced pretty significantly by ED, just like SOs. Two IOs of a type will be reduced somewhat by ED too, but not too badly.
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For Schedule A, it's almost a 10% hit in boost. I respec my level 50 Peacebringer, and I was able to shave 5 slots off the the build. I lost a coupe of percent in Damage Resistance on my Light Form (Unstoppable) and an extra 20 seconds on the Rechage time. And lost 2 second of recharnge on my Essence Boost (Dull Pain), and I added 2 level 50 IO Health, But did gain +91% Max Health. And I was able to slot a recharge into 2 Human form ranged attack and my WD Smash. I am more then pleased with the better performance. I even respec into Gleaming Eyes from the Gleaming Bolt.
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To-hit set bonuses - This one is going to be sneaky. I don't think it's the best PvE option, but I'm a little concerned at how much to-hit there is out there. Defense is basically screwed in PvP, even more so than it has been before I think.
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Where are the tohit buffs? I only see one in the paragonwiki info, which is the unique in Kismet.
+accuracy can cause issues, but +tohit is considerably worse for defense in pvp, I think.
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There are a lot of to-hit set bonuses. The uncommon high level melee damage set for instance has to-hit. I think you can get around 20% to-hit without much trouble.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Where are the tohit buffs? I only see one in the paragonwiki info, which is the unique in Kismet.
+accuracy can cause issues, but +tohit is considerably worse for defense in pvp, I think.
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According to Arcanaville, everywhere you see "Accuracy" listed as a set bonus, it's actually To-Hit buff.
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ouuuuchhhh.
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Yup. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
CASTLE WROTE:
Invention Enhancement Feedback
Now that information on the Invention System is out, it is important to get as much feedback as possible from you, our players. There are a lot of new concepts and code involved in this system, and as such the possibility of problems exists. Invention Salvage and recipes come from normal hunting, Trials, Task Forces and completed Story Arcs. You can use those items to create new enhancements, costume pieces or even temporary powers. All of those systems need a thorough hammering on to make sure it all works as planned.
However, the functionality of gathering salvage and recipes, then building enhancements or temp powers is only part of the picture. As "the powers guy" I need feedback on the crafted items themselves. How do you like the enhancements and enhancement sets? Do you like the advancement scale? Are there enhancements you think are too weak or too powerful? If so, why? How do you feel about Set Bonuses, both in general and for specific sets you are able to build?
Try to min-max as much as possible. We need to see how far the system stretches, and at what point it breaks.
Are the Rare sets too strong? Too weak? What happens if you fill out multiple powers with enhancement sets?
Some information:
<ul type="square">[*]A crafted enhancement with 1 attribute (Damage, Hold, Range, etc) multiplies the level value of an enhancement by 1.0; in other words, it grants full value.[*]A crafted enhancement with 2 attributes (Damage/Hold, Damage/Range, etc) multiplies the level value of an enhancement by 0.625; in other words, each attribute gives 62.5% of the value that the level of the enhancement would normally dictate. For instance, a level 35 Damage/Hold enhancement gives a 22.9% bonus to the attacks damage and a 22.9% increase to the attacks Hold duration.[*]A crafted enhancement with 3 attributes (Damage/Hold/Recharge, Damage/Range/Endurance Reduction, etc) multiplies the level value of an enhancement by 0.5; in other words, each attribute gives 50% of the value that the level of the enhancement would normally dictate. For instance, a level 35 Damage/Hold/Recharge enhancement gives a 18.35% bonus to the attacks damage, a 18.35% increase to the attacks Hold duration and a 18.35% increase to the attacks Recharge time.[*]Some enhancements are marked as 'Unique.' This means that only one copy of that enhancement is allowed to be slotted by a given character. You can have as many as you want for sale or in your inventory, but only one can be slotted.[*]Enhancements with special bonuses, such as 'Steadfast Protection: Knockback Resistance' that are in toggle powers are only effective when the toggle itself is running.[*]Enhancements with special bonuses, such as 'Steadfast Protection: Knockback Resistance' that are in 'click' powers are only effective for a set duration after the power is used. For 'Unique' enhancements, the duration is typically 120 seconds, while non-unique enhancements typically have a duration of 10 seconds.[/list]
Here is the advancement table. It lists the level of the enhancement and the bonus it gives to a single attribute.
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Lvl____20%_/___33%_/___40%_/___60%
10____7.0%_/_11.7%_/_14.0%_/_21.0%
11____8.0%_/_13.3%_/_16.0%_/_24.0%
12____9.0%_/_15.0%_/_18.0%_/_27.0%
13___10.0%_/_16.7%_/_20.0%_/_30.0%
14___10.8%_/_17.9%_/_21.5%_/_32.3%
15___11.5%_/_19.2%_/_23.1%_/_34.6%
16___12.3%_/_20.5%_/_24.6%_/_36.9%
17___13.1%_/_21.8%_/_26.2%_/_39.2%
18___13.8%_/_23.1%_/_27.7%_/_41.5%
19___14.6%_/_24.3%_/_29.2%_/_43.8%
20___15.4%_/_25.6%_/_30.8%_/_46.2%
21___16.2%_/_26.9%_/_32.3%_/_48.5%
22___16.9%_/_28.2%_/_33.8%_/_50.8%
23___17.7%_/_29.5%_/_35.4%_/_53.1%
24___18.5%_/_30.7%_/_36.9%_/_55.4%
25___19.2%_/_32.0%_/_38.5%_/_57.7%
26___20.0%_/_33.3%_/_40.0%_/_60.0%
27___20.2%_/_33.7%_/_40.5%_/_60.7%
28___20.5%_/_34.1%_/_40.9%_/_61.4%
29___20.7%_/_34.4%_/_41.4%_/_62.0%
30___20.9%_/_34.8%_/_41.8%_/_62.7%
31___21.1%_/_35.2%_/_42.3%_/_63.4%
32___21.4%_/_35.6%_/_42.7%_/_64.1%
33___21.6%_/_35.9%_/_43.2%_/_64.8%
34___21.8%_/_36.3%_/_43.6%_/_65.5%
35___22.0%_/_36.7%_/_44.1%_/_66.1%
36___22.3%_/_37.1%_/_44.5%_/_66.8%
37___22.5%_/_37.5%_/_45.0%_/_67.5%
38___22.7%_/_37.8%_/_45.5%_/_68.2%
39___23.0%_/_38.2%_/_45.9%_/_68.9%
40___23.2%_/_38.6%_/_46.4%_/_69.5%
41___23.4%_/_39.0%_/_46.8%_/_70.2%
42___23.6%_/_39.4%_/_47.3%_/_70.9%
43___23.9%_/_39.7%_/_47.7%_/_71.6%
44___24.1%_/_40.1%_/_48.2%_/_72.3%
45___24.3%_/_40.5%_/_48.6%_/_73.0%
46___24.5%_/_40.9%_/_49.1%_/_73.6%
47___24.8%_/_41.2%_/_49.5%_/_74.3%
48___25.0%_/_41.6%_/_50.0%_/_75.0%
49___25.2%_/_42.0%_/_50.5%_/_75.7%
50___25.5%_/_42.4%_/_50.9%_/_76.4%
51___25.7%_/_42.8%_/_51.4%_/_77.0%
52___25.9%_/_43.1%_/_51.8%_/_77.7%
53___26.1%_/_43.5%_/_52.3%_/_78.4%
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I know that acquiring, building and slotting an invention set can be difficult, so you will likely need to pool your efforts to do so. Use the consignment houses, trade and work together to get as much information and testing done as you can.
I sincerely hope you all enjoy the basics of this system. I'll be working closely with the data you generate to improve all aspects of the Invention Enhancement system, and I have high hopes that between now and launch that it will improve dramatically.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.