Invention Enhancements and You: by Castle
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2007-04-03 10:13 in The Market and Inventions
Shrug. It's still PVP, and I care just a smidge above zero about PVP.
If you care about it, by all means, weigh in on your concerns.
This is, however, the first I've heard about two +stealth factors. Last time I read anything about it, both stealth and superspeed reduced the range at which mobs could perceive you by -50 each (which, I suppose, might be +stealth... or -per, depending on your perspective). It's just that in PVE, they stack... in PVP, Super Speed effectively doesn't have any reduction in perception range, whatever you want to call it (+stealth or -per, if there's a signficant difference between those concepts).
Popping an Acc these days lets you see Stealthed mobs, IIRC, and through Night Widow's Smoke Grenades.
What are these two factors of which you speak?
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
What about /rad trollers choking cloud?
It is not allowed to put TO/DO/SO ACC in it. Well I see that the IO sets have ACC and hold. Does that mean the ACC will actually work in the power?
Will the UI indicate the absolute %acc of a power (with enhancements)?
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
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This is, however, the first I've heard about two +stealth factors. Last time I read anything about it, both stealth and superspeed reduced the range at which mobs could perceive you by -50 each (which, I suppose, might be +stealth... or -per, depending on your perspective). It's just that in PVE, they stack... in PVP, Super Speed effectively doesn't have any reduction in perception range, whatever you want to call it (+stealth or -per, if there's a signficant difference between those concepts).
Popping an Acc these days lets you see Stealthed mobs, IIRC, and through Night Widow's Smoke Grenades.
What are these two factors of which you speak?
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Stealth powers normally have two components, StealthRadius and StealthRadiusPlayer. The former works against mobs, and the latter against players. Super Speed is unique in that it only has the former, and thus only works against mobs.
Perception debuffs are something else entirely, and can be found in powers like Smoke Grenade.
Ah. Interesting.
The last time I looked at +stealth powers was a couple years ago.
Thanks for the clarification.
In practice, though, even if the effects are technically different, "they stack". In other words, SG + cloaking device + super speed = enough -per (or -per and +stealth, as preferred) to hide from a Nem Sniper or various flavors of Rikti Drones (if you can get close enough to throw SG, that is), last time I checked, which was also a while ago.
Or SG + Cloaking Device = "functional invisibility" to those mobs. It's just that SG is an active power, and must be used on the mobs first. Or so I've always thought of it.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
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In practice, though, even if the effects are technically different, "they stack". In other words, SG + cloaking device + super speed = enough -per (or -per and +stealth, as preferred) to hide from a Nem Sniper or various flavors of Rikti Drones (if you can get close enough to throw SG, that is), last time I checked, which was also a while ago.
Or SG + Cloaking Device = "functional invisibility" to those mobs. It's just that SG is an active power, and must be used on the mobs first. Or so I've always thought of it.
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Yes. Basically, entities (players and mobs) have PerceptionRadius and StealthRadius. The distance at which entity A can see entity B is equal to entity A's PerceptionRadius - entity B's StealthRadius (d=P-S). If the result is 0 or lower, entity A can not see entity B at any range.
In order to decrease d, you can either increase S or reduce P.
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It is not allowed to put TO/DO/SO ACC in it. Well I see that the IO sets have ACC and hold. Does that mean the ACC will actually work in the power?
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I've wondered the same thing, actually. Along that same line, does CC accept Endos? I've never tried it because ... eck, putting Endos in CC? I don't have the patience to gather enough data to determine if it makes a difference, anyway.
An eternity ago, before I included Tactics on all my Controllers as a standard practice, I had CC but I was frustrated that it couldn't accept Acc. Someone mentioned in a random topic that To-Hit buff should work on it though, and that's how I ended up with Tactics everywhere (not what it used to be ... thanks ED, but still).
But now, I realize I don't know if the Acc in CC is truly unenhanceable, or if it's only that the power doesn't accept normal Acc enhancements.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
Hmm.
Looking on test, you can slot the 3-IO set that gives you end reduction, run speed, and +stealth, presumably, into Super Speed.
So can I actually get +stealth from the IO and add that to Super Speed's own version of +stealth? That would be full mobile invis for PVE, and not require picking up a Stealth power in addition. Which would rock for several toons. Actually, any toon that can take SS wouldn't strictly NEED Stealth then, for my purposes.
Or could have "real" invis even to Nemesis Snipers with SS, +stealth IO, and Stealth. Which would be awesome.
Or is that something they will squash? Or just a pipedream on my part?
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
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This may seem strange, but I am disappointed by the lack of variety among prot effects that add damage to regular attacks (ranged and melee sets).
Here's an example. I have a couple of characters with Psionic damage. It's an "exotic" dmage type only available to two ATs with low-end damage scales. It is commonly resisted by up to 50% by foes like robots, which are relatively pervasive throughout the game.
I would really like to be able to add something to Psionic damage that can help with this (besides my vet rewards 
). For facing robots, for example, that's smashing damage (optimally) or something like energy damage. Lethal is also resisted by most robots, so it's a poor choice.
There are a limited variety of such prot enhancements, and an even more limited set specifically for "plain ol' attacks" (Ranged, Melee). Now certainly I understand that potential stacking of prots is probably an issue, and this may be at the root of the limited selection. But I have to say I was hoping for more than is out there.
That's just a suggestion about what I feel is sort of lacking.
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Can't say I disagree with this. I was hoping for fire procs and such for meleers as lethal damage can kick you in the butt at high levels. Ah well. The great thing about loot is that its easy to add more. It's not like adding powersets. I'm hopeful we'll see new loot every issue.
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So does the advent of Inventions mean that we can finally get a Reduce Knockback Magnitude Enhancement? Pretty please??
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This may seem strange, but I am disappointed by the lack of variety among prot effects that add damage to regular attacks (ranged and melee sets).
Here's an example. I have a couple of characters with Psionic damage. It's an "exotic" dmage type only available to two ATs with low-end damage scales. It is commonly resisted by up to 50% by foes like robots, which are relatively pervasive throughout the game.
I would really like to be able to add something to Psionic damage that can help with this (besides my vet rewards ). For facing robots, for example, that's smashing damage (optimally) or something like energy damage. Lethal is also resisted by most robots, so it's a poor choice.
There are a limited variety of such prot enhancements, and an even more limited set specifically for "plain ol' attacks" (Ranged, Melee). Now certainly I understand that potential stacking of prots is probably an issue, and this may be at the root of the limited selection. But I have to say I was hoping for more than is out there.
That's just a suggestion about what I feel is sort of lacking.
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Can't say I disagree with this. I was hoping for fire procs and such for meleers as lethal damage can kick you in the butt at high levels. Ah well. The great thing about loot is that its easy to add more. It's not like adding powersets. I'm hopeful we'll see new loot every issue.
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So does the advent of Inventions mean that we can finally get a Reduce Knockback Magnitude Enhancement? Pretty please??
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No. What are you trying to do...make FFs KB powers useful in teams or something! 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Or could have "real" invis even to Nemesis Snipers with SS, +stealth IO, and Stealth. Which would be awesome.
Or is that something they will squash? Or just a pipedream on my part?
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All those powers would stack, but I think they would put most characters to the stealth cap. Which may or may not be past the Snipers perception range.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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It is not allowed to put TO/DO/SO ACC in it. Well I see that the IO sets have ACC and hold. Does that mean the ACC will actually work in the power?
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I've wondered the same thing, actually. Along that same line, does CC accept Endos? I've never tried it because ... eck, putting Endos in CC? I don't have the patience to gather enough data to determine if it makes a difference, anyway.
An eternity ago, before I included Tactics on all my Controllers as a standard practice, I had CC but I was frustrated that it couldn't accept Acc. Someone mentioned in a random topic that To-Hit buff should work on it though, and that's how I ended up with Tactics everywhere (not what it used to be ... thanks ED, but still).
But now, I realize I don't know if the Acc in CC is truly unenhanceable, or if it's only that the power doesn't accept normal Acc enhancements.
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Yes. I wrote Castle about this a few months ago and posted it somewhere in the guides section (one of the Rad guides). Basicly, it works like this.
CC can take the Hold/Acc Hami's and the end result of doing this will allow you to hold more opponants the first time the power ticks. I.E. out of 10 you were holding 5, now you're holding 7, the next tick, you may get another one or 2. at this point, you've lost some of those who you held, and now they're free to act...
It helps, a little, but slotting those in CC can be a timeconsuming thing that you may want to put elsewhere. I do it cause I think it's neat to cheat the system a little.
I've got 3 Acc/Holds in my CC and it performs slightly better than it did with just holds.
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All those powers would stack, but I think they would put most characters to the stealth cap. Which may or may not be past the Snipers perception range.
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I have been told secondhand that persons who should have been at the stealth cap were still "seen" by Rikti drones. I don't know if it was tested, but I also have no particular reason to disbelieve it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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It helps, a little, but slotting those in CC can be a timeconsuming thing that you may want to put elsewhere. I do it cause I think it's neat to cheat the system a little.
I've got 3 Acc/Holds in my CC and it performs slightly better than it did with just holds.
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The primary reason, of course, is that the hold in CC has a random chance of applying separate from whether the power hits. First it has to hit, and second the mag2 (and mag1 for LTs) holds have to apply. Accuracy slotting obviously only affects the hit chance - nothing we can do affects the random chances for the mag1 and mag2 holds.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Do the +Regen/+Recovery Unique IOs (Regenerative Tissue, Miracle, Numina's Convalesence) stack with themselves? They are/were listed in game as having a 120 second duration...
Fire Brick - Fire/Stone Tanker
Plasma Brick - Fire/Fire Blaster
Dark Brick - Dark/Regen Scrapper
Electron Transfer - Kin/Elec Defender
Zeake Ferrari - PB
Mr. Rick - Inv/SS Tanker
Einsiedler - Bots/Traps MM
Ice Brick - Ice/EM Tanker
One man's paranoia is another man's engineered redundancy.
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Do the +Regen/+Recovery Unique IOs (Regenerative Tissue, Miracle, Numina's Convalesence) stack with themselves? They are/were listed in game as having a 120 second duration...
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Those are Unique now ... so stack with each other, sure; but you can't use more than one of any of them.
I figured the "120 second" text was referring to the 120 second duration on those types of special IO effects in click powers like Heal Other, but that shouldn't apply at all to an auto- or toggle-type Healing power.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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Do the +Regen/+Recovery Unique IOs (Regenerative Tissue, Miracle, Numina's Convalesence) stack with themselves? They are/were listed in game as having a 120 second duration...
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Those are Unique now ... so stack with each other, sure; but you can't use more than one of any of them.
I figured the "120 second" text was referring to the 120 second duration on those types of special IO effects in click powers like Heal Other, but that shouldn't apply at all to an auto- or toggle-type Healing power.
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I think the question he's asking is, if you were to slot it into aid self, say, and cycled aid self twice in 120 seconds, would you get the buff twice. And I think the answer to that question is no, or at least I don't think you are *supposed* to get the buff twice. If you do, I believe that would be a bug.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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That was the question! Thanks for the input!
Fire Brick - Fire/Stone Tanker
Plasma Brick - Fire/Fire Blaster
Dark Brick - Dark/Regen Scrapper
Electron Transfer - Kin/Elec Defender
Zeake Ferrari - PB
Mr. Rick - Inv/SS Tanker
Einsiedler - Bots/Traps MM
Ice Brick - Ice/EM Tanker
One man's paranoia is another man's engineered redundancy.
Please to be moving this over to the lab!
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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To-hit set bonuses - This one is going to be sneaky. I don't think it's the best PvE option, but I'm a little concerned at how much to-hit there is out there. Defense is basically screwed in PvP, even more so than it has been before I think.
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Where are the tohit buffs? I only see one in the paragonwiki info, which is the unique in Kismet.
+accuracy can cause issues, but +tohit is considerably worse for defense in pvp, I think.
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There are a lot of to-hit set bonuses. The uncommon high level melee damage set for instance has to-hit. I think you can get around 20% to-hit without much trouble.
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Playing about with Iokana's planner for Ebon Angel (DM/Regen) gives me 22.5% tohit from set bonuses. Double that for recharge and regen. If you focus on only a few set bonuses you can get some really nice totals. Though I think I may be able to get higher.
Sudden thought - set bonuses of the same amount do not stack more than five times - but what happens if you use a lower level version of a set, so the set bonus is correspondingly lower? Could you just have one set at, say 39 and one at 50 to get twice as much of a boost , even if they would clash at level 50?
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
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[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
The set bonus is always the same value for a given bonus in a given set, no matter the level of the individual enhancements within the set.
Kam
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In PVE you can stack Stealth with a -per power like Super Speed to get functional invisibility. I've done it for nigh on three years. I'm well aware that you can't stack two Stealth powers, thanks. And that -per has no effect in PVP.
Here's the thing - they could just swap out how +stealth IOs work for the way Superspeed works in PVP. There's nothing saying that it HAS to be "stackable stealth". Unless it does (I'm not a programmer, I'm a database guy).
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Yes, that was a suggestion, and I believe this would be a viable solution.
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On the other hand, the objection is that it makes Stalkers less special? Or just that you need to do more work to see folks?
Eh. That's what IR goggles (and stacked Tactics) are for. Even folks in Bloody Bay can have Tactics.
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This requires taking powers that you normally may not. Which, as I have pointed out, is no longer true for the Stealth side of things.
While adding +Perception IOs has been offered as a counter, it was mentioned (and I agree) that this would just be taking it too far; all the level 50s in PvP zones would be all slotted out with +stealth and +perception without having to squeeze in Stealth or Tactics or anything, and the PvP noob curve would become drastically steeper.
Changing the +stealth IOs to be PvE only, while inconsistent with the reasoning for SuperSpeed, would be entirely possible, and is the only change at this point I can think of that would seem right to me.
EDIT: And IR goggles are only available for Heroes, offsetting stacked stealth on stalkers. And only available at certain times. Not a valid argument.
FURTHER EDIT: Just to clarify something; SuperSpeed is not -per in the slightest. It's a stealth, but only contains one of the two +Stealth factors that are present on other stealth powers.