Consolidated Thread: Statesman's Task Force
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2007-04-03 08:09 in The Market and Inventions
BTW, the Flier can be confused/deceived. Helps alot if the teams are busy at their tasks (Tower, LR, etc) when it respawns.
-Sandolphan
"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."
MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
HAMIDON NUKE RAID GUIDE
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Shame on a scrapper that comes to the STF w/o FA.
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I hit just fine in that TF w/o Focused Accuracy. Just because you had a hard time hitting doesn't reflect on other scrappers, and team builds. I don't like having FA or the body mastery pool in general. I like the Dark Mastery pool more.
Relen OUT!
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Well then, let me bring you back IN; to tell you that you did a marvelous job at jumping to a wrong conclusion.
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Then scrappers without FA should be ashamed because... they don't get to experience the wonderful end costs of running it?
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Yes, the END costs are wonderful.
Wonderfully low.
3 End Reds and it falls to ~ 0.32.
Worth the cost for the value it provides.
(To bring myself back on topic...): Additionally, if you have END cost concerns on an STF team then that's indicative of other problems. Team make-up foremost, but not solely responsible.
Repeat Offenders
Ran it a couple hours ago. The team make up was 1 scrapper(me), 2 blasters, 3 trollers, 1 def, 1 granite tank.
All in all, it was a challenging piece of cake, until the last mission. We had trouble pulling at first and got all 4 of the Patrons, which ended in team wipes. Thank god they put a hosp on the map. But we did manage to get better pulls. Took out Mako first. Not sure what it was, but he never ran around. Then we took out the rest of them. Still took awhile to take each one down. Even with sufficient debuffs it seemed like we just weren't doing a lot of damage.
Then came the part with the Recluse. I just wanna say that I am not a fan of the whole towers gimmick, as it is now. They conned at lv52 and just seemed to take forever to destroy. Took the red and green ones out, then started on the yellow one. Had barely dented the yellow one when the red one got repaired, then the green one after that. About that time the tank announced he had to go, as did one of the trollers. So we just called it quits.
So yeah, kinda disliking the whole towers gimmick. Either they need to be easier to destroy or the repair guys have to go.
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Ran it a couple hours ago. The team make up was 1 scrapper(me), 2 blasters, 3 trollers, 1 def, 1 granite tank.
All in all, it was a challenging piece of cake, until the last mission. We had trouble pulling at first and got all 4 of the Patrons, which ended in team wipes. Thank god they put a hosp on the map. But we did manage to get better pulls. Took out Mako first. Not sure what it was, but he never ran around. Then we took out the rest of them. Still took awhile to take each one down. Even with sufficient debuffs it seemed like we just weren't doing a lot of damage.
Then came the part with the Recluse. I just wanna say that I am not a fan of the whole towers gimmick, as it is now. They conned at lv52 and just seemed to take forever to destroy. Took the red and green ones out, then started on the yellow one. Had barely dented the yellow one when the red one got repaired, then the green one after that. About that time the tank announced he had to go, as did one of the trollers. So we just called it quits.
So yeah, kinda disliking the whole towers gimmick. Either they need to be easier to destroy or the repair guys have to go.
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Mind if I ask why you are pulling? In my experience with the STF, and as of today I have completed 4... The successful ones we have Zerg Rushed... The failed ones we pulled. Honestly I think it is way easier to just group all the AV's in the final mission and go to town on them like we do in the LRSF.
But one thing I don't do the STF without is an emp, never will I do it without at least 1 emp.. I hate GW's hold so much! Cool thing is I am the only one to get held each time, so we get veng off at the start of the fight and end with it on as well.
So far my understanding of pulling on the STF is this -
Snipe - TP sniper - Tanker taunts pulled AV/AV's - Tanker runs to boat - Team Attacks AV's - Team Wipes - repeat - kill 1 AV - team wipe - kill 2nd AV - pull again - team wipe - kill 1 AV - team wipe - kill 4th AV
And here is how it goes for the Zerg Rush every time I do it -
Gather for buffing - Summon Shivans - Buff Shivans - Tanker takes Alpha on all 4 AV's and gets them into melee range - Scrappers rush in and attack Ghost Widow - 1 Scrapper dies - Team gets Vengeance - Scrapper gets up - Team kills GW - Team attacks Mako - Team kills Mako - Team attacks Scirroco - Team kills Scirroco - Team attacks Black Scorpion - Team Kills Black Scorpion.
In the Zerg Rush - About 6-8 minutes passed and the AV's are dead. We did it a little slower when we had 2-3 rads on the team, but it was successful non-the-less. And easy.
In the pulling - About 15-20 minutes passed for the whole process to go through. And it is complicated.
Also something I noticed with this STF is that -
Buffs win over Debuffs
I have run 4 STF's the right way as stated. And 3 of them were on very buff heavy teams. We had alot of synergy on the team filling gaps that the AT's had, and over all boosted damage and accuracy amazingly high.
2 Emps, and 1 Bubbler an stack Fort and the Bubbles to create an unstoppable defence. With the Sonic Bubbler we had, we created an awesome resistance base for those "Oh man my defence just got shot through". Adding in the Kin, we were totally untouchable. Add in the Granite and both Scrappers we had enough damage to take out the AVs without shivans. We still used them though... The AoE's were needed.
Debuffers have little to offer the team in terms of hole filling. Sure the debuffs are "OK", and they do help, Buffs by far outshine the debuffs.
(Gonna try a new end of sig sign off thing... Had 1 person ask nicely, and 1 ask like a friggin' king of the world A-hole. Nicely asking gets it done people!)
~Relen~
Lifes absurd events, deserve absurd reactions.
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~Relen~
Lifes absurd events, deserve absurd reactions.
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Could you please use proper punctuation so that "life's" is possessive and the sentence makes more sense? The comma is unnecessary.
Thank you.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Buffs win over Debuffs
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This I emphatically agree with. I'm seeing quite a few people say things like 'bring lots of rad' and I don't agree. Certianly rad will make it easier, but I've done it successfully with no debuffs except a kin (so -regen/-dmg/-spd). Major debuffing sets are not necessary, and that's a good thing. Serious buffage helps much more in surviving the last mish.
Also - I like the whole 'tower gimmick' as someone called it. It requires forethought, planning and coordination - as opposed to a bloody stupid high level multi-AV stacked-vengence, shivanFTW zergfest that is the RSF.
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Buffs win over Debuffs
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This I emphatically agree with. I'm seeing quite a few people say things like 'bring lots of rad' and I don't agree. Certianly rad will make it easier, but I've done it successfully with no debuffs except a kin (so -regen/-dmg/-spd). Major debuffing sets are not necessary, and that's a good thing. Serious buffage helps much more in surviving the last mish.
Also - I like the whole 'tower gimmick' as someone called it. It requires forethought, planning and coordination - as opposed to a bloody stupid high level multi-AV stacked-vengence, shivanFTW zergfest that is the RSF.
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Buffs, debuffs, both are good. As for which is better, depends on how the team leans. Personally I prefer a mixture. An Emp or Two for Fort, a Rad for AM and the debuffs, A Dark for the wide assortment of debuffs, Kin is a buffer/debuffer, FF and Sonic are both alright but I prefer Sonic as the FF can lead to Tower Resurection if the team isn't co-ordinated. 4 or 5 of these in any combination and you should be able to do the STF.
As for the Towers, I'm in total agreement. People who complain that the towers were Revived should have been more careful with the Techs. Techs MUST DI... er... Be ARRESTED! No if ands or buts. No fancy gimmics, just good ol' fashioned kicking the Tech the moment his little grey conning name appears. If a Tower is revived it is a sign of a serious flaw in your teams tactics.
=. .=
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Buffs win over Debuffs
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This I emphatically agree with. I'm seeing quite a few people say things like 'bring lots of rad' and I don't agree. Certianly rad will make it easier, but I've done it successfully with no debuffs except a kin (so -regen/-dmg/-spd). Major debuffing sets are not necessary, and that's a good thing. Serious buffage helps much more in surviving the last mish.
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While I'm glad that the tyranny of Radiation Emission might be drawing to a close, I wonder if this fix will really help matters. Given that buffs are now clearly more effective than debuffs in this sort of situation, what exactly does a debuff heavy set like Dark Miasma bring to the table?
Against major enemies that we can't simply steamroller, Darkonne has a suite of powers that function at much reduced effectiveness than buffs, draw agro, and stand a good chance of not affecting all the enemies anyway. Why would someone want me instead of a buffer, or perhaps a more evenly balanced buff+debuff set?
It's possible I'm just being paranoid; I have not made it to the final STF mission yet (curse you, DBServer!), so I don't know what I can do there. But I just hear people claiming how much better buffs are, or see the result of massed buffs on the new Hami raid, and I worry.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
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Buffs win over Debuffs
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This I emphatically agree with. I'm seeing quite a few people say things like 'bring lots of rad' and I don't agree. Certianly rad will make it easier, but I've done it successfully with no debuffs except a kin (so -regen/-dmg/-spd). Major debuffing sets are not necessary, and that's a good thing. Serious buffage helps much more in surviving the last mish.
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While I'm glad that the tyranny of Radiation Emission might be drawing to a close, I wonder if this fix will really help matters. Given that buffs are now clearly more effective than debuffs in this sort of situation, what exactly does a debuff heavy set like Dark Miasma bring to the table?
Against major enemies that we can't simply steamroller, Darkonne has a suite of powers that function at much reduced effectiveness than buffs, draw agro, and stand a good chance of not affecting all the enemies anyway. Why would someone want me instead of a buffer, or perhaps a more evenly balanced buff+debuff set?
It's possible I'm just being paranoid; I have not made it to the final STF mission yet (curse you, DBServer!), so I don't know what I can do there. But I just hear people claiming how much better buffs are, or see the result of massed buffs on the new Hami raid, and I worry.
-D
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Personally I love bringing a Dark def, as a precausion for team wipes during a Zerg Rush. And you as the dark defender know what you can bring to the table for a team in the STF.
AoE Rez, Tar Patch, AoE heal, Toggle -Acc/-Dmg debuff, resistance to Psi damage, ect. On top of that you could grab Recall Friend, Assualt/Tactics/Vengeance and make a wonderful addition to the team.
On 2 of the failed tries I had at the STF, I had a dark def on teh team. Unfortunately they left by way of DBServer disconnection or Family Emergency just before the final mission. I fully believe that we could have completed it with the darks on the team if we didn't lose them...
It is up to you how useful you are on a STF team. I failed when we had 1 emp and a bubbler because both the emp and the bubbler did NO buffing, and NO healing.
~Relen~
Life's absurd events deserve absurd reactions.
I'm wondering if my ar/dev blaster's trip mines would be helpful for tower fights, specifically, if I'm not otherwise needed - play "goalkeeper" and just lay bunches of mines around each downed tower, and if I see a repair man... zip into the 60' range and BOOM!
Has anyone brought a /dev blaster on the STF yet? I was about to over the weekend, but swapped to my kin/dark, and we gave up on the TF when we were all kicked off the server, after toasting only Black Scorpion.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
Has anyone worked out yet roughly what Defense value Mako has with his perma-Elude? Does it seem to be the same as the unslotted Hero version (45%), or higher?
Trying to work out how I might respec my 50 rad/rad defender for the new Hami/STF, and its going to be *really* hard to squeeze in Tactics. Unfortunately, hitting a +4 AV with Elude going just can't be done with Defense Debuffs alone (which is probably intentional), and I'm wondering if its even worthwhile doing any defense debuff slotting of the /rad powers. It looks like it would make around a 1-1.5% difference on one of the base 37% debuffs in /rad (Irradiate, the snipe).
I have not brought a /Dev on the STF as of yet - I am willing to do that soon, and try your strategy. Although, the trip mines would be better suited around the towers we are taking down at the time. 1 for damage, and 2 to take out the repairmen as they spawn.
~Relen~
Life's absurd events deserve absurd reactions.
Trip mines are going to be of limited use against the repairman I think. They just spawn too fast. I have Dragons tail slotted with two recharges and have Quickness and it wasn't always up before the next spawn appeared. If I had to guess, I'd say it's somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds between spawns, with the lower range being more prevalent. Sometimes it felt like every other attack was going towards the repairmen. Still, they're deep grays and Dragons Tail was one-shotting them. Even if you have to dedicate one teammember to just clearing away the techs, that shouldn't be too hard. An AoE blaster or scrapper will be able to kill them without even breaking a sweat.
The towers do have a lot of HP, but they don't self regenerate (at least not very fast), so it's just a grind to take them down.
That is very true... The respawn rate of the repairmen is very fast. As far as I can tell it is consistant with how fast you damage the Tower itself. Many times if we gave up on a tower to take care of the flier we would not have to worry about the repairment spawning... *Shrug*
As for the trip mines... The strategy of pulling would work well with the mines if you had 2 kins, and hasten on the /dev blaster... Pull the AV's onto a truck load of Trip Mines.
Unfortunately for /Dev blasters - I don't pull on my teams. We Zerg Rush, no questions asked. If the team only has 1 person with shivans - I don't select the final mission til EVERYONE has gone to BB and gotten shivans.
We on 1 run had an AR/Elec Blaster that instead of going to BB went to WB solo and got nukes in the time that it took us all to get shivans. He got the -res and the buff nukes.
Anyway... /Dev blasters would be great for the teams that pull. Not for Zerg Rush teams like the ones I lead.
~Relen~
Life's absurd events deserve absurd reactions.
Interesting. You use shivans, and feel that buffs > debuffs.
My teams don't use shivan zerg rushes, as I rather feel where the upper limit of our powersets is now during Testing instead of swarming the whole thing with shivans (which are so overpowered they are practically required for the RSF.)
And my successful teams were ones with a hefty serving of debuffers along with a buffer or two (kin, emp).
One thing that seems to be a common thread - stacked buffs/debuffs still seems to be the best way to go.
Invictus Est Level 50 Invul/Fire Tank
Malentis Level 50 Ice/Energy/Leviathan Dom (Freedom)
Black Jeremiah Level 50 Fire/Fire/Mu Dom
Sejanna Level 50 Dark/Dark/Elec Def (Virtue)
Arc #119664 - The MiniMech Cometh - Hess TF Mini-Sequel
The reason I won't run the STF without shivans, even on a buff heavy team - is because the use of them makes it easier to take on a group of 4 AV's. On the team when I first completed the STF - I wasn't touched ... Ever. I was buffed up so much that the AV's never hit me, the tanker and the rest of us were all laughing because we were surviving so well. We added in the shivans because we thought it would be funny to watch. It in fact was funny. We had the shivans buffed up just like the rest of us, and with 4 assualts, + Fulcrum on them we just had fun looking at the HUGE DoT flying out from the shivans.
Shivans just make it easier. Teams that lack buffs would totally make great use of the shivans just because of the extra damage they provide.
Now - As to whether or not they are NEEDED? No - But it makes things go faster. And by the time we reach the final mish we just wanna be done. So that is why I don't run the STF without shivans ever.
~Relen~
Life's absurd events deserve absurd reactions.
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While I'm glad that the tyranny of Radiation Emission might be drawing to a close, I wonder if this fix will really help matters. Given that buffs are now clearly more effective than debuffs in this sort of situation, what exactly does a debuff heavy set like Dark Miasma bring to the table?
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You don't have anything to worry about - debuffs in general are more useful than ever:
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Archvillain and Giant Monster class entities have had their global debuff resistances reduced. This should offset the changes made to -Regen powers and lead to more diverse team composition for certain encounters.
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from here.
Its just that debuffs are no longer absolutely required as they have been since the last round of AV buffs.
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Trip mines are going to be of limited use against the repairman I think. They just spawn too fast. I have Dragons tail slotted with two recharges and have Quickness and it wasn't always up before the next spawn appeared. If I had to guess, I'd say it's somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds between spawns, with the lower range being more prevalent. Sometimes it felt like every other attack was going towards the repairmen. Still, they're deep grays and Dragons Tail was one-shotting them. Even if you have to dedicate one teammember to just clearing away the techs, that shouldn't be too hard. An AoE blaster or scrapper will be able to kill them without even breaking a sweat.
The towers do have a lot of HP, but they don't self regenerate (at least not very fast), so it's just a grind to take them down.
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A fire/fire blaster running blazing aura, hotfeet and burn on the towers kills the repairmen as they are spawning and can solo the towers. My fire/fire will be my first toon of choice as it really does the job so well (but needs AB and SB to function)
single target teams have problems with the repairmen, 1st time we ran it we were all in ST pvp spec and couldnt take out the repairmen faster than they could fix so one member ran a fast respec and got ice slick and we went and got shivs and that took care of them,
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As for the Towers, I'm in total agreement. People who complain that the towers were Revived should have been more careful with the Techs. Techs MUST DI... er... Be ARRESTED! No if ands or buts. No fancy gimmics, just good ol' fashioned kicking the Tech the moment his little grey conning name appears. If a Tower is revived it is a sign of a serious flaw in your teams tactics.
=. .=
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Well, IMO, I just don't think it's balanced, in terms of how much damage it takes to destroy a Tower(which is like fighting an AV that doesn't fight back) vs. how fast the repairmen can repair them. Also, I don't think it's very realistic at all that the things can be rebuilt in an instant after we blow them to bits.
My suggestions: Make the Towers a little easier to destroy, reduce how often the repairmen spawn, or change them so they can't repair the things in an instant to give some leeway.
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Your post makes me sad for my Storm/Psi def, AR/Traps blaster and FF defender. . . .oh and I have a 50 fire tank too, LOL. Guess I really need to get my 42 Ill/Emp to 50 sooner rather than later if I want regular invites to the SF.
And your point 3 continues the trend of what others have been saying and my experience on the team last night. No one had tactics or focused accuracy. The only way I see my Stormie getting regular invites is by having Assault, Tactics and Vengeance....cya Medicine pool(currently have Aid Other, Aid Self, Resurrect for all the good they did).
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Don't be sad about the bubbler, they're golden, a granite tank with bubbles can tank pretty much anything there (including +4 AVs 3 at a time and recluse with all the towers working), we had nothing but bubblers and kins of the controller/defender types, and had very little difficulty (note no darks/rads). Also force bubble is cool for keeping repairmen off the towers.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
As long as you don't send the repair men the wrong way, like I did!
>.<
Ran STF last night. We did fine no deaths up until fighting DR AEON.
now our team was this.
1) Scrapper (claws/regen)
2) Tank (SS/inv)
3) Def (D3)
4)Def (emp/Psy)
5) Troller (fire/rad)
6) troller (Ill/not sure?) dropped during Aeon never returned
7) blaster (AR/Dev) he dropped and never returned right before aeon
8) blaster (Nrg/Nrg)
Now what is the best strategy. He owned us multiple times. What were we missing?
thanks for post
I have a humiliating question. 
What is this Dr. Aeon temp power I keep seeing mentioned? What does it do?
I don't think I've been the recipient of the temp power either time I've run the STF, but I'm not sure I'd have known if I had been. I used the same character on both runs, and all three of that character's power trays are completely full.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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As long as you don't send the repair men the wrong way, like I did!
>.<
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True Dat dawg. But hey, it wasn't entirely your fault... We didn't pay attention til we got the tower we killed restored...
~Relen~
Life's absurd events deserve absurd reactions.
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Shame on a scrapper that comes to the STF w/o FA.
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I hit just fine in that TF w/o Focused Accuracy. Just because you had a hard time hitting doesn't reflect on other scrappers, and team builds. I don't like having FA or the body mastery pool in general. I like the Dark Mastery pool more.
Relen OUT!
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Well then, let me bring you back IN; to tell you that you did a marvelous job at jumping to a wrong conclusion.
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Then scrappers without FA should be ashamed because... they don't get to experience the wonderful end costs of running it?