Article Discussion: Redesigning Hamidon
By
AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2007-03-22 13:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Wow, nice to have an article detailing the difficulty of redoing the Hami encounter from a devs view. Great job!
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When we first created Hamidon, we started by making a trial that was, for all intents and purposes, impossible, save for one strategy designed by Geko, our lead powers and critters designer. Because the Hamidon would spawn a Mitochondria bodyguard for every character in the cytoplasm when reduced to 50% (and 25%) health, Gekos plan involved the players coordinating their tactics so only a minimum number of characters were actually inside the cytoplasm, effectively reducing the re-spawn to a manageable level. Also, since the Mitos were immobile, characters could perform a multi-pronged assault so that when the Mito re-spawn occurred, they could force the Mitos to spawn on one side of the Hamidon, leaving one side undefended.
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Now we know what the strategy was the devs always thought of. About time they told us! 
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Interesting article.
Wait, Hamidon is a god?
I thought he was a science experiment gone somewhat wrong by a crazed scientist injecting himself with the Will of Earth?
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
Some sections are particularly interesting.
Be well, people of CoH.
Yeah, the 50 players cap on The Hive/Abyss should be interesting to see how it play out.
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
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Some sections are particularly interesting.
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Yeah... I think I'm looking forward to the goober again.
Interesting article. I noticed the 50 player cap too. I never raided Hamidon before, how many people could you get in there before?
I've been thinking about the dev's "intended" solution to killing Hami, and thinking about it, I don't think it would work for the last what? year? two?
They buffed him so many times that if you tried that tactic, you'd wipe in an instant.
I do like the 50 max in a zone thing though. As long as Hami got sufficiently nerfed to a level where 50 could do it with reliability (given the right stratagy).
For future reference Devs, please don't buff Hami to the point where we CAN"T beat him with your intended stratagy. That or put hints into the game where we can learn how to do it.
....OHHHHHHH storyarch idea! "How to Beat Hami 101" Requires ALOT of work, and you could even tie it in somehow like some other games do where you have to do that arc to even ENTER the hive/abyss.... You know, like getting a Key or something....
Nah, people would most likely complain about that if you did it.
I think around 150 or 200.
But the background to Hamidon conflicts with how its told in game. I didn't know scientists were around for thousands of years and live in other dimensions. Unless they say "He was an alien scientist from another dimension"
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From the linked article:
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So the player cap in The Hive and The Abyss has been lowered to 50 players.
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SG/VGs allow more than 50 members.
And since it's an open zone, and not instanced, it's certainly first-come/first-serve.
Can't say whether I like it or not, but I can't wait to try it out. 
I hope that Hamidon can be taken down with less than 50, if coordinated well, too. Not something ludicrous like a single team, but yeah.
And thanks very much for finally revealing the 'original intended' strategy! Sort of sucks that as Hamidon is now, we can't really give it a go on Live. Maybe reset him for a week or two into Retro Hamidon? 
Certainly hoping the 50 player cap ends up as a boon instead of a hindrance. Also, does the article mean that one can do 2 rewarded Hamidon raids in 24 hours (one HO, one recipe)?
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Makes videos & podcasts about reviewing toys, covering conventions, and more at Vangelus.ca
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Wait, Hamidon is a god?
I thought he was a science experiment gone somewhat wrong by a crazed scientist injecting himself with the Will of Earth?
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Ditto, actually, it's one of the reasons I liked Hamidon, one of the ultimate powers in the universe that ISN'T an ancient god...
Edit: I'd rather see the number of players moved up to 75...
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From the linked article:
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So the player cap in The Hive and The Abyss has been lowered to 50 players.
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SG/VGs allow more than 50 members.
And since it's an open zone, and not instanced, it's certainly first-come/first-serve.
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Here we go................................................ .
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Interesting article. I noticed the 50 player cap too. I never raided Hamidon before, how many people could you get in there before?
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I think the Hive instances at about 200, give or take 20-30.
This Hamidon looks to be interesting to fight. It'll be good to shake up the good old "clear mitos, hold Hamidon, kill Hamidon" strategy. It's served us well, now it's time to move on.
Wait a second, I just spotted a flaw in the set up.
Max members in an SG: 75
Max amount of characters in the Hive/Abyss: 50
So... Does an SG make a Hive 2 and do a 32/33 man raid in each?
Fun idea: The Hami-race. Spawn two or more Hives/Abysses and see who finishes first. You only need 50+N characters to create N instances. (Leave one character in Hive 1, 50 goes to Hive 2, spawns Hive 3 and so on.)
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Gentleman...Start your Doomgines!
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Overall, I think the changes are pretty positive.
50 player limit on the hamidon-zone. Yay!
The lag really ramps up at about 140 heroes, so capping at 50 is good. Especially if this is the Abyss, and those 50 villains have alot of masterminds.
Hamidon powers revamp. Yay!
Hamidon spawnable by player actions instead of timed self spawn. Yay!
Rewards Selection screen. Yay!
More involved play by all ATs. Yay!
Essence of the Earth inspirations. Yay!
Once per 24 hours....... meh
Evolving Hamidon......yay (no capitalization, no exclamation). Yay to less repetitive. Leary about excessive re-balancing.
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Wait, Hamidon is a god?
I thought he was a science experiment gone somewhat wrong by a crazed scientist injecting himself with the Will of Earth?
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Ditto, actually, it's one of the reasons I liked Hamidon, one of the ultimate powers in the universe that ISN'T an ancient god...
Edit: I'd rather see the number of players moved up to 75...
[/ QUOTE ]To be honest, this isn't an official site so the reviewer are probably under some misconception about Hamidon.
The thinking probably follows as:
1 huge monster+ need lots of SUPERHEROES to win+ Overwhelmingly powerful = Hamidon must be a god!
In the Arena of Logic, I fight unarmed.
Agree that cap might be better at 75, so a whole SG can do it. Then again, I don't know what the new Hami is like
And yea, my arc told me Hami used to be a scientist that invented a mutagenic colony of sentient bacteria or something that he infused himself with.
Damn excited to see what the new strategy will be.
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Gentleman...Start your Doomgines!
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That wasn't meant as a DOOOM! Far from it. I was just wondering if it was an oversight.
Besides, how can it be first come, first serve when:
1. You can create new instances with only 50 characters (including those already raiding) in a zone.
2. Hamidon is manually spawnable.
I kind of expect a somewhat sizable team size needed to take him on still. Maybe 20-30 characters. So if "they" have 20-30 characters already raiding and "we" have 20-30 characters wanting to raid, we'll get our own instance and spawn our own Hamidon.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Eh, I'm ok with the zone capping at 50. Not all SG's are at the 75 cap so the smaller ones could coalition with a couple others.
I do predict SG's scheduling a time to show up, everyone showing and locking the zone to prevent teh wikked griefers.
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Wait, Hamidon is a god?
I thought he was a science experiment gone somewhat wrong by a crazed scientist injecting himself with the Will of Earth?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto, actually, it's one of the reasons I liked Hamidon, one of the ultimate powers in the universe that ISN'T an ancient god...
Edit: I'd rather see the number of players moved up to 75...
[/ QUOTE ]To be honest, this isn't an official site so the reviewer are probably under some misconception about Hamidon.
The thinking probably follows as:
1 huge monster+ need lots of SUPERHEROES to win+ Overwhelmingly powerful = Hamidon must be a god!
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Umm, see the background:
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Written by Christopher Bruce, member of the Cryptic Development Team, the article presents the process, challenges and changes that went into this new feature
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Should be no misconception
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To be honest, this isn't an official site so the reviewer are probably under some misconception about Hamidon.
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City of Heroes / City of Villains: Redesigning the Hamidon
By Christopher Bruce, Cryptic Developer
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I am shocked that this thread hasn't hit about 15 pages by now.
Amazing how good news is slower than DOOOM
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Wait, Hamidon is a god?
I thought he was a science experiment gone somewhat wrong by a crazed scientist injecting himself with the Will of Earth?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto, actually, it's one of the reasons I liked Hamidon, one of the ultimate powers in the universe that ISN'T an ancient god...
Edit: I'd rather see the number of players moved up to 75...
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I was just thinking the same thing. I think 50 is a bit under, but it has been about 6 months since I did a Hami raid so, I could be wrong. I think that 75 would be a better number myself. I also believe that Hami would need a nerf so thatthe goal of defeating him with 50-75 people is obtainable. *remembers the Old version of Super Arachnoids that had a high regen rate, great one shot potential to even Boss pets and slaughtered MM's, Brutes and Corruptors solo*
Curse Gaming and the City of Heroes / Villains Team presents an exclusive look one of the Issue 9 features: Redesigning the Old God - Hamidon. Written by Christopher Bruce, member of the Cryptic Development Team, the article presents the process, challenges and changes that went into this new feature. Enjoy!
NOTE: The original story contained some incorrect backstory elements. It has been updated to correctly match the game's lore. Sorry for that!
Please use this thread to discuss the above article.
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