O_o scary...
I think people need to realise that the "big numbers" from the secondaries arent what you need to focus on, overall damage benefits a team, if you build for solo, expect to solo, team wont wait? maybe because its faster exp if you ignored the mines and only used them situationally.
blaster damage is much better, you just have to know how to use it.
oh and i agree, FF gen is mediocre at best... teamed with one corr who took acid mortar w/o ff gen, and one who did the opposite... guess which party did better. 
and the accuracy increase from TD adds more damage potential than most defensive corr sets, and the 25% more damage is far more useful if you actually team.
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O_o scary...
I think people need to realise that the "big numbers" from the secondaries arent what you need to focus on, overall damage benefits a team, if you build for solo, expect to solo, team wont wait? maybe because its faster exp if you ignored the mines and only used them situationally.
blaster damage is much better, you just have to know how to use it.
oh and i agree, FF gen is mediocre at best... teamed with one corr who took acid mortar w/o ff gen, and one who did the opposite... guess which party did better.
and the accuracy increase from TD adds more damage potential than most defensive corr sets, and the 25% more damage is far more useful if you actually team.
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Yeah, Targetting Drone is way better than having Tar Patch, or Enervating Field.
In bizzaro world!
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[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, Targetting Drone is way better than having Tar Patch, or Enervating Field.
In bizzaro world!
[/ QUOTE ]
It is if your teaming with a dark/ defender already. plus you get more from slotting the extra dmg or recharge with the tar patch.
then again, dark/dark defenders can solo easily for a reason and radiation is one of the strongest support sets, try saying /cold pre-38 does more dmg or /thermal does more and I would say you might wanna think about a respec.
Your survivability is *mostly* not your concern, if you have a decent team, your concern is your damage, and making sure not to accidentally pull a second mob, but mostly the damage. if your dying in a team with heavy damage mitigation your either opening for a team that doesnt need you to, or the team has no idea what theyre doing.
a corruptor must use both to give the full benefit to his team, his blasts alone are kind iffy and the secondary leaves gaps where your twiddling your thumbs.
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and the accuracy increase from TD adds more damage potential than most defensive corr sets, and the 25% more damage is far more useful if you actually team.
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This doesn't compute.
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and the accuracy increase from TD adds more damage potential than most defensive corr sets, and the 25% more damage is far more useful if you actually team.
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This doesn't compute.
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you miss less, or you can slot more recharges... or damage, doesnt matter, all are an increase to DPS
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and the accuracy increase from TD adds more damage potential than most defensive corr sets, and the 25% more damage is far more useful if you actually team.
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This doesn't compute.
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you miss less, or you can slot more recharges... or damage, doesnt matter, all are an increase to DPS
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You can't slot more damage, unfortunately. You can slot more recharges instead of more damage, which can increase your output some. However, I don't think it's quite worth a 25% increase in damage.
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And either way build up is a bigger damage boost than 25% >.>
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
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and the accuracy increase from TD adds more damage potential than most defensive corr sets, and the 25% more damage is far more useful if you actually team.
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This doesn't compute.
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you miss less, or you can slot more recharges... or damage, doesnt matter, all are an increase to DPS
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You can't slot more damage, unfortunately. You can slot more recharges instead of more damage, which can increase your output some. However, I don't think it's quite worth a 25% increase in damage.
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ahhh THAT part, that was reference to corruptors, which in actuality would be TECHNICALLY... 33% more if you go from the corruptors viewpoint (pre-enhancements) (100-75)/(75)=1/3=33%
the TD thing is seperate, just explaining why the blaster secondaries provide more direct damage bonuses. and some people use 2 recharges 2 accu 2 dmg, which is why TD would be able to boost dmg if they normally opt for recharges, i cant tell you the dmg boost from that tho
edit: to the other post... SUSTAINED bonus. BU isnt perma... but i know you wish it was 
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Funny, up until ED everyone said it was bar-none the best blaster secondary out there. Suddenly after ED everyone's saying it wasn't that great before... Funny how revisionist history tends to happen on things like this...
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Well there is a difference between revisionism and just plain forgetfulness. And once SG was fixed Devices lost it's superior status. But that was around I2. When I5 rolled around a year later, Dev had long been supplanted by other sets.
Most of us agree Energy Manipulation is the cat's pajamas with stellar single target attacks and Conserve Power.
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And you're right... this is basically just another nerf to blasters. How is it exactly that porting AT was too powerful?
They waited 'till I8 for this?
Gimme a break...
[/ QUOTE ] My sentiments exactly
Harrison Burgeron it aint just a story by Kurt Vonnigut anymore!
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It really is a ridiculous power, and not one that you ever see in comic books, except as a plot hook, such as when a group of heroes are teleported up to an alien space ship to be used as pawns in a intergalactic gladiator game.
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LOL,... /QFT (JLU ftw!)
As for Device Blasters... Atleast you've got 100% Damage and trip-mine in the 20's.
Try playing a /Trap Corr that only has 75%, and no TripMine until 35.
I'll give ya a hint, the FF generator doesn't make up for it!
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Wow, two mindless trolls in one thread. We should bottle this and sell it for bait.
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I see three, but I'm not sure about the first two.
I have an idea. It starts with 's' and ends with 'litting their throats.'"
-Belkar Bitterleaf, Order of the Stick
Order of the Stick
Yea, that first post made like no sense to me either. I tried to muddle my way through it, but it's just a confusing jumble of comments.
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And the other part was him saying TD allowing less slotting for even cons to +2s not being strong enough for teaming was kind of odd, since blasters/scrappers get the biggest hit to effectiveness from the level gap.
[/ QUOTE ] Honestly, from a personal level, I find TD alone inadiquate for even even cons, but then, that's remembering the pre-nerf (AKA ED) strength of the power. I just seem to recall some numbers saying over +2s. Or perhaps it was over +2s, I forget honestly.
Also, granted, I don't go into large teams terribly much, but usually when I am on the larger teams I fight things higher than +2 quite regularly.
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and it has paragraphs, i just didnt use a full line in between
[/ QUOTE ] Yea, but that makes it look like one long jumbled mess though. The seperating lines add a bit of clarity to a post.
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focusing on the secondary gave birth to scrankers, offenders, blappers, and scraptrollers. all which sacrifice overall effectiveness for specific situations..
[/ QUOTE ] The problem is that blappers don't give up effectiveness at all. The primary focus of blasters is damage, and blapping actually increases their effectiveness, since the melee powers surpass the primary set's damage.
I mean really, in your fast group melee blaster powers aren't useless any moreso than a scrappers attacks or any tank's secondary attacks. In fact they're more usefull than tanker's attacks since they do more damage, and blapping's the only way to reliably outdamage a scrapper. And heck, /electricity and /fire can do that in AoE form.
You seem to be blinded to the fact that not every blaster's an AoE one, as a matter of fact most blaster sets aren't set to be AoE blasters ideally.
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9% tohit debuff heavily slotted?
[/ QUOTE ] You realise that's like slotting dark melee powers three times for -acc. Actually worse than that in most cases.
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I think people need to realise that the "big numbers" from the secondaries arent what you need to focus on, overall damage benefits a team,
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your concern is your damage, and making sure not to accidentally pull a second mob, but mostly the damage.
[/ QUOTE ] Um ... the big numbers the secondaries other than devices can provide (well, more readily than the 'big numbers' of trip mine and time bomb which don't work well in teams at all) increase a blaster's damage, and thus their benifit to the team yes? If a blaster's supposed to worry about doing damage shouldn't they take sets that allow them to do the most of it? Those sets end up being almost anything but devices in teams. Devices is good for looking out for your character and soloing, things that you've said blasters shouldn't be worrying about. I seriously don't get your arguments, they don't make any sense.
And really, you didn't just tell pretty much the entire blaster forum that we don't know how to play blasters did you? Good lord.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
On those saying corr have it so much worse with the 75% of our base ranged, I call shenangians. Every corruptor set comes with -resist and/or -defense which put their base damage at our level if not higher. Along with that they get debuffs, buffs, heals, defense, etc. Even /traps which is similar to /devices has defensive powers and acid mortar. Then corruptors get scourge which adds a sweet chunk of damage, and kicks butt on AV fights.
The only difference is that they do not all have Aim+Buildup, which is what all blasters but /devices (and the topic of this discussion) get. Also, we aren't all about burst damage. Play an AR/Dev, which is more about laying on AoE and sustained DoT than anything else.
I'm saying that your focusing on single target a bit too much, the melee powers are good if your party is
a. missing scrappers
b. fighting AVs every mission, which is confined mostly to 40+
blapping is also the best way to solo, im not saying it isnt a good idea, im saying that its the smallest bang in a 6-8 man team, which IME is the fastest exp if your built for big teams, /dev is GOOD for big teams, BU outlasts a spawn in some of my groups, but isnt up for what? 2-3? TD is up 24/7 and as my troller was earth/ they never got it detoggled.
this thread is basically saying that 'nerfing' the turret is a huge deal and everyone said /devices was alread a gimp.
heres the truth: ITS NOT GIMP, it is good for BOTH AR and archery, who both have long animation times that make BU less effective because they cant cram 5-6 powers into the duration.
TD is quite useful for them and they excell at sustained damage, but not the greatest for AVs when they need to rely on single target.
competing with scrappers isnt exactly you know, WORKING.
and as you said fire/ and elec/ pull it off with AoE, ice can too if you use the rain and breath, AR does it fairly well, and ive SEEN archery do it consistantly. oh and nobody likes nrg/ apparantly so i actually havent gotten to see that one in action.
But really, the thing is, comparing devices to another secondary that acts completely different is in a nutshell, a bad idea
EDIT: this has been nagging at me, where on earth do you people get the idea trip mines define the powerset? think a /rad is defined by fallout and his pbaoe hold? they can ignore BOTH of those. dont get hung up on them, i suggested using the mines under your feet so if you draw aggro they die when they try to melee you.
Pfft. I can cram Buckshot, Flame Thrower and Full Auto all into one Build Up window on my AR/Ice blaster.
Thats not five powers, but it doesn't need to be, because it pretty much kills everything in a spawn.
Devices is a blaster secondary, it is really pretty insane to argue that we can't compare it to the other secondaries.
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But really, the thing is, comparing devices to another secondary that acts completely different is in a nutshell, a bad idea
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Incorrect. Comparing them is the only way to determine if they're balanced against each other. They don't have to be identical in performance in all situations, they just need to provide sufficient benefits that they're useful in a relatively equal number of situations. One of the problems this game has is that some primaries or secondaries in every AT are significantly weaker or stronger than the other powersets for that AT, giving characters with those powersets a noticeable performance boost in play (PVE or PVP, depending) over other powersets.
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But really, the thing is, comparing devices to another secondary that acts completely different is in a nutshell, a bad idea
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Incorrect. Comparing them is the only way to determine if they're balanced against each other. They don't have to be identical in performance in all situations, they just need to provide sufficient benefits that they're useful in a relatively equal number of situations. One of the problems this game has is that some primaries or secondaries in every AT are significantly weaker or stronger than the other powersets for that AT, giving characters with those powersets a noticeable performance boost in play (PVE or PVP, depending) over other powersets.
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And thus why Flavour of the Month builds are so common.
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[ QUOTE ]
On those saying corr have it so much worse with the 75% of our base ranged, I call shenangians. Every corruptor set comes with -resist and/or -defense which put their base damage at our level if not higher. Along with that they get debuffs, buffs, heals, defense, etc. Even /traps which is similar to /devices has defensive powers and acid mortar. Then corruptors get scourge which adds a sweet chunk of damage, and kicks butt on AV fights.
The only difference is that they do not all have Aim+Buildup, which is what all blasters but /devices (and the topic of this discussion) get. Also, we aren't all about burst damage. Play an AR/Dev, which is more about laying on AoE and sustained DoT than anything else.
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You know, it could be said that corruptors have it bad. However, if you want a high-damage corruptor build (say, Fire/Dark), you'll see they don't suffer all that much. 
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Ive partied with FOTM before, they kill bosses nicely (ICE/EM tends to skip the cone + rain), but unless im in a group thats already AoE happy it really isnt fitting a role, yes, AR/EM is good burst, ive teamed with one occasionally, mostly on GMs tho.
and for the comparison, archery is usually called 'gimp' but it meshes with devices extremely well, it doesnt mesh as well with the other secondaries because from what i understand the animations are awful.
dark/dark defenders have sets that work well together, yet many find the blast set "gimp" when they use it with ff or others just because it does less damage and by itself isnt enough control to save them.
devices can handle longer animations, the rest do shorter animations much easier, not to say you cant get the AoE's off, but your not getting as much as say a fire/ or ice/ would because their animations take a split second.
if you want a fix, i think you should be aiming for hit-detection on the trip mines, someone suggested shorter recharge / duration for the turrets, THOSE are good ideas, and higher BI for blaster primaries / defender secondaries would benefit everyone. even scrappers because people would stop getting so hung up on blapping
THIS thread is a long whine fest, your not going to lose much from this, and the set is still useful despite how much you say its "gimped" the archery/dev i partied with never used a mine/explosive/turret, he used the cloaking and TD, and he was good at his job. as in, the only thing left after his opener was lts and bosses. overkill is useless on a side note.
Captain there aren't too many AoE blaster builds. Fire and Ar are the only ones that can do it fairly early in their careers. Archery can pull it off once it gets rain of arrows. The other sets are pretty light on AoE damage. And also on a team a blaster alternating aim and build up can be consistently buffed and better off than targeting drone (one or the other might be down for a spawn). You keep harping on the wonder that is the drone when its one use (in PvE) is pretty much down the chunnel.
edit - IMO /devices' set defining power was targeting drone. Now the drone is mediocre at best. Trip mine used to be a close second.
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Then its odd that the best team blasters ive seen have all been /dev, now isnt it? well, the fire/ was pretty useful, but that was the primary.
Anyway, im gonna leave it at its how you use the damn set. I gotta go do work. oh, and sets were made for PvE, it doesnt matter if they meant for PvP or not, the set was built before the pvp, and probably rebalanced before the pvp too.
I do think smoke grenades should get a range enhancement though.
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Then its odd that the best team blasters ive seen have all been /dev, now isnt it? well, the fire/ was pretty useful, but that was the primary.
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My guess is the fire/ was pulling most of the work . My fire/dev was pretty nifty, caltrops and her firey death attacks worked great. By my fire/nrg and fire/fire both kill faster. I can tell you from experience aim+bu > targeting drone for massive death quickly.
Oh yea and smoke grenades need a lot more than range.
Have fun at work.
edit - Was that pvp comment for me or someone else?
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
no no, the /devs were archery and AR, the fire/ i couldnt even tell what the secondary was, it was mostly EMP + inferno.
But fire/ is pretty good, most fun corr primary ive tried out so far, lets me use my secondary to its full power and throw out AoE spikes when my end permits. I can see using the melee instead of the single targets, but most blappers i see dont really use AoE, despite throwing the 2 aoe they have is better than going full single-target. :/ okay now im gone, before i run outta time.
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I dare you little ****ies to come to the Corruptor forum and say that.
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/em shiver Tell them what? That Offenders... er, I mean Corruptors aren't happy with the 75% some (such as you) keep kvetching about the way some Defenders kvetch about their 66%. They aren't factoring in the buff/debuff/damage mitigation they have access to. Things Blasters don't have access to. You want 100%? Fine ya friggin' crybabies. Give up your ability to buff yourself, debuff your tagerts, and otherwise mitigate the damage your targets are sending your way.
I recall my first Dark/Dark Corruptor. We had just experianced a near teamwipe that I had survived. As I stood there dispatching mobs surviving the damage being sent my way I knew there was no way in hell the devs would ever give Blasters a self-heal, or any of the other damage mitigation tools Corruptors have. It would be decidedly unbalanced. Too bad the folks who have those tools can't see the same thing when they go on about their 75%/66% damage output.
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Funny, up until ED everyone said it was bar-none the best blaster secondary out there. Suddenly after ED everyone's saying it wasn't that great before... Funny how revisionist history tends to happen on things like this...
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For as long as I can remember seriously participating in the blaster forum, /energy has been considered the best blaster secondary out there, with (for various reasons), /electric and /devices being fairly good. /Devices hasn't been considered to be the best since the Great Smoke Grenade Fix of I2, and people didn't really catch on to how good /energy was until a bit before or a bit after that.
/Devices lost a lot of its strength with the addition of stealth suppression, the global defense reduction, and ED. It never "suddenly" lost its prominence as one of the better secondaries. Rather, its strengths were whittled away over several updates.
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