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Or is this somehow related to using TP Foe on the bunker turrets in RV?
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If this is the case, then Thorizdan may have to eat his words about it not being a PvP issue. Man would players howl, for just cause too.
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Yes, 'cause it couldn't also relate to TP Foe'ing all the other turrets in PvE zones...
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Yes, it applies to Auto Turret.
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Yet another pointless nerf for a sub par power.
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People keep talking about this as a nerf to AT specifically. Nevermind all the other powers it effects. I imagine the case was that there was no way to exempt specific 'droppables' from this change and not that the horrible, evil devs just wanted to kick AT while it was down...
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You're probably right, but it doesn't matter. The end outcome is that two sub-standard sets are now even MORE sub-standard.
Wanna fix it, Castle?
Make the following powers have the same AI and mobility as the Force Field Generator from Traps:
Triage Beacon, Acid Mortar, Auto Turret, Tree of Life
Make the following powers all behave as if they were seeker drones, but fix the seeker AI so it actually seeks enemies and stays close to the caster instead of moving like drunk snails:
Poison Trap, Time Bomb (And please fix the Photon Seekers AI while at it.)
There. Now the sets can at least be used by someone that prefers to actually move through a mission at a faster than a dead sloth pace.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Or is this somehow related to using TP Foe on the bunker turrets in RV?
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If this is the case, then Thorizdan may have to eat his words about it not being a PvP issue. Man would players howl, for just cause too.
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It's a PvE greifing problem. No less than three days ago, some idiot was TP Foeing level 43 Malta turrets around high traffic areas in Skyway (or was it Steel? Doesn't matter -- low level zone), causing quite a bit of debt.
Rather than code the damn things to die with the Engineers or at least give the stupid things a TIMER, they chose this solution, and apparently it would have been difficult to code it such that it didn't affect player powers. (Who knows why...)
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It really is a ridiculous power, and not one that you ever see in comic books, except as a plot hook, such as when a group of heroes are teleported up to an alien space ship to be used as pawns in a intergalactic gladiator game.
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LOL,... /QFT (JLU ftw!)
As for Device Blasters... Atleast you've got 100% Damage and trip-mine in the 20's.
Try playing a /Trap Corr that only has 75%, and no TripMine until 35.
I'll give ya a hint, the FF generator doesn't make up for it!
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I'll give ya a hint, the FF generator doesn't make up for it!
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Lets see, higher defence then cloaking device (for arguments sake, 3 defence SO) and low status protection. Or, buggy mines that need to be inserted into a mob's shoe using a crap -perception power (SG) which suppress my steath power (CD), best decription for that is "self defeating."
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It's a PvE greifing problem. No less than three days ago, some idiot was TP Foeing level 43 Malta turrets around high traffic areas in Skyway (or was it Steel? Doesn't matter -- low level zone), causing quite a bit of debt.
Rather than code the damn things to die with the Engineers or at least give the stupid things a TIMER, they chose this solution, and apparently it would have been difficult to code it such that it didn't affect player powers. (Who knows why...)
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I fail to see how this solves the greater problem of PVE griefing. There are other solutions to this, including social ones of hunting the griefers down and banning them, to making worldspawn malta turrets not be permanent.
The griefing issue is still there, it's just a lot harder to pull off now. Just have to get the ambush where you want them before engaging so the engineers drop the turrets.
Seriously though, if it was griefing that was causing the issue, then that's what they should list it as. As closing a method of Griefing, not calling every single item an exploit. It's like even minor criminals being called terrororists. The word is losing all meaning when we see it.
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When Castle said "Legacy issue" I think he was referring to calling Devices "Gadgets".
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You're right. Mea Culpa. I mixed it up with an unrelated past reference to 'Legacy issue' elsewhere by a red name.
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I think the change probably increased in importance when more people started taking TP Foe. It is more popular than it used to be.
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I'll have to take your word for that. It's always been popular among PvPers, and Controllers have been using Recall Friend on mobile pets from CoH's launch until the devs fixed the elevators to allow pets. Even now, Recall Friend is useful for precision placement of pets in battle, when they hang on map architecture, and when you outpace your pet in outdoor maps and zones. The current wisdom is this decision is an outgrowth of removing the exploit of porting bunker turrets in RV. While I can agree that those RV bunker turrets probably deserve a teleport exception, I feel player- and NPC-generated pets are fair game for any power. Evidently, Castle disagrees. Feh on that.
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To be honest, I don't have much of a problem with the change itself since you can't TP most of the other objects like Auto Turret around either (Ice and Burn Patches, Caltrops, Tar Patch, etc.) You can, however, get a lot more use out of those powers, partly but not entirely due to their recharge rates.
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None of the powers you listed fill a stationary pet role. Auto Turret, the mortar(s) (i'm not a MM aficionado), and even the Devoured Earth emanators do. People aren't concerned about tp-ing around Tar Patch and such, because people haven't been porting them around for forever and they don't act as pets.
As well, Tar Patch recharges fast enough with three SO recharges that it is up every fight. Pre-ED you could self stack the thing.
Its funny how something like that, which we told the developers was overpowed as soon as we could test the addition of -Res to Tar Patch was left alone for ages, and yet, specific action is taken to nerf Auto Turret? Misplaced priorities.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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It really is a ridiculous power, and not one that you ever see in comic books, except as a plot hook, such as when a group of heroes are teleported up to an alien space ship to be used as pawns in a intergalactic gladiator game.
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LOL,... /QFT (JLU ftw!)
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Not QFT. Pinpoint short range teleports are no stranger to comic books. It just isn't used as often because it's not very dramatic as a regular device in most situations since the comics don't treat TP Foe as a to-hit power. Recall Friend in narrative fiction also undermines the stakes in risky situations in ways that are much more acceptable in a computer game. It's also more difficult to set up artwork panel tableaus elegantly to convey the power. Nightcrawler's (X-Men) particular teleport abilities are a notable exception, and many teleporter characters mimic him.
Soooo, not so ridiculous after all.
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Gadgets is the internal name of Devices. It's a Legacy issue and it was my mistake when adding the patch note.
As for the change itself, there was an exploit involving TFoe and various stationary entities (like Auto Turret.) In fixing this, the player versions of these entities were locked down as well. I do realise this impacts one of the tactics Devices players used to bypass the limitations of the set. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see if the change hampers the gameplay too severely.
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And I was hopiong Gadgets was a new scraper defensive set à la Batman. THAT would be nice!
If the "exploit" is to tp auto turrets into disued areas, I don't think that qualifies as an explot at all. Solo, those turrets are incredibly tedious; they give no xp and take an inornate amount of damage. Ignoring them during the fight and then tp-ing them into a corners seems perfectly legitimate.
Actually, I preferred them back when they disappeared as the technician went down like most other drops do. Such as a player-owned auto turret I suppose, only they are so rare I've never seen this. Which speaks volues on how useful they are.
This looks like another case of balance by PITA. Try to avoid that.
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Wait a second here ... <shakes head in disbelief 
> ... let me get this straight. So not only did Devices not get the help it needs (which every */Dev has been asking for since I3 or so)
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Before ED, /dev was unparalleled as a blaster secondary. WHo in their right mind thought it needed help?! ED hurt it, but now it's about average. Definately not sorely in need of help.
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Are you serious?
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Completely.
[/ QUOTE ]How do you figure? As a whole the set seems pretty down there to me, especially in teams.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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As well, Tar Patch recharges fast enough with three SO recharges that it is up every fight. Pre-ED you could self stack the thing.
Its funny how something like that, which we told the developers was overpowed as soon as we could test the addition of -Res to Tar Patch was left alone for ages, and yet, specific action is taken to nerf Auto Turret? Misplaced priorities.
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It's gotta be the RV turret situation bleeding unnecessarily over. Problem is, it's a bit of an apples and oranges situation in my mind. You just can't compare the effectiveness of temporary stationary pets to sort-of-perma armed fixtures that can occasionally be used as pets by bunker operators if they bother to jump in the driver's seat.
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Gadgets is the internal name of Devices. It's a Legacy issue and it was my mistake when adding the patch note.
As for the change itself, there was an exploit involving TFoe and various stationary entities (like Auto Turret.) In fixing this, the player versions of these entities were locked down as well. I do realise this impacts one of the tactics Devices players used to bypass the limitations of the set. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see if the change hampers the gameplay too severely.
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And I was hopiong Gadgets was a new scraper defensive set à la Batman. THAT would be nice!
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Just a note, there has been some data for just such a powerset in the pigg files since CoV beta. Or so I hear.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
When you pan the camera to watch yourself in the cool new flight poses, your vertical flight direction changes. You cannot watch yourself from above, or you'll soon crash into the ground.
This is an old issue, but made more acute by the new poses.
A friend of mine says heäll reopen his account if this is fixed. 
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In fixing this, the player versions of these entities were locked down as well. I do realise this impacts one of the tactics Devices players used to bypass the limitations of the set. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see if the change hampers the gameplay too severely.
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This is a mistake. Pure and simple. So fix it.
Unless of course having a teleport power and being able to use it has suddenly become an exploit!
I cannot describe how sick I am of this kind of thing!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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You're probably right, but it doesn't matter. The end outcome is that two sub-standard sets are now even MORE sub-standard.
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Two? I've heard /dev called sub standard (although I don't agree), but what's the second one. Surely you aren't referring to traps?! O.O
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I'll give ya a hint, the FF generator doesn't make up for it!
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Lets see, higher defence then cloaking device (for arguments sake, 3 defence SO) and low status protection. Or, buggy mines that need to be inserted into a mob's shoe using a crap -perception power (SG) which suppress my steath power (CD), best decription for that is "self defeating."
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You realize if you wait a few seconds after throwing the SG, CD un-suppresses and you can toe-bomb as normal?
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Completely.
[/ QUOTE ]How do you figure? As a whole the set seems pretty down there to me, especially in teams.
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Trip mine's still effective even without toe-bombing (which is still possible, you just can't rush in immediately after throwing the SG). Never had a problem getting it to detonate with a handful of caltrops (which are another immensely useful power in the set) and pulling the mob straight over it. AOE snipe level damage more than makes up for missing BU. CD is a great stealth power. SG with its -perception and minor acc debuff is useful even without using it for toe-bombing purposes. TD may not allow you to 6 slot damage into attacks anymore, but it DOES open up another slot in your attacks for other enhancements. Go ahead and throw in recharges, end reducers, or whatnot. Might be surprised what one more slot in each power can do for you. I hear taser s a decent stun.
In the end, it may not be on top anymore, but it's certainly not bottom of the barrel. That'd be fire manip.
All this griping about not being able to TP AT anymore, thing is, I've only ever seen one person using it at all before. Ever. You'd think they just crippled the best power in the set or something.
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Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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You'd think they just crippled the best power in the set or something.
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I think it's the feeling of being kicked while you're down that's the problem. And fire manipulation, while hinky, ain't so bad if you're into spectacular victories and spectacular failures.
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
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You realize if you wait a few seconds after throwing the SG, CD un-suppresses and you can toe-bomb as normal?
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Toe Bombing is not an effective strategy; to get Trip Mines to work it's fine, but to use Toe Bomb as a strategy it' stinks. First, it requires you to toss an SG, hope it hits eveything (sG makes a to hit check) and you aren't seen, you have to wait 10 seconds for cloak, and then another 5 secons for the trip mine animation to finish. It takes far to long set up and get's tedious to use on every goup; and should not require powers outside the set (Super Speed) to function.
Not to mention when it goes off nothing well be dead, but they'll be mighty pissed.
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
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It really is a ridiculous power, and not one that you ever see in comic books, except as a plot hook, such as when a group of heroes are teleported up to an alien space ship to be used as pawns in a intergalactic gladiator game.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL,... /QFT (JLU ftw!)
As for Device Blasters... Atleast you've got 100% Damage and trip-mine in the 20's.
Try playing a /Trap Corr that only has 75%, and no TripMine until 35.
I'll give ya a hint, the FF generator doesn't make up for it!
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Wow, two mindless trolls in one thread. We should bottle this and sell it for bait.
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All this griping about not being able to TP AT anymore, thing is, I've only ever seen one person using it at all before. Ever. You'd think they just crippled the best power in the set or something.
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The nerf to AT is just another in a long line of nerfs to Devices. We're not the ones fixating on the AT nerf. If anything, you're myopically focused on this one "tree" and missing the rest of the "forest". If you don't understand why people are aggitated, no manner of explaination if really going to get it through your head.
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Last time I checked, there is no Gadgets secondary. There is, however, one called Devices. Freudian slips like this and folks wonder why some hold the belief that the devs don't seem to know the Blaster AT all that much.
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Gadgets is the internal name of Devices. It's a Legacy issue and it was my mistake when adding the patch note.
As for the change itself, there was an exploit involving TFoe and various stationary entities (like Auto Turret.) In fixing this, the player versions of these entities were locked down as well. I do realise this impacts one of the tactics Devices players used to bypass the limitations of the set. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see if the change hampers the gameplay too severely.
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What gameplay? Why doesnt one of the devs play a /dev blaster to 50 just using pugs, that way you can see just how crappy the set is now. (yes i know some people can adapt around and play it well but a secondary shouldnt have to be graded in terms of difficulty, /dev would certainly be in the expert category as it stands)
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> ... let me get this straight. So not only did Devices not get the help it needs (which every */Dev has been asking for since I3 or so)
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Wait a second here ... <shakes head in disbelief
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Before ED, /dev was unparalleled as a blaster secondary. WHo in their right mind thought it needed help?! ED hurt it, but now it's about average. Definately not sorely in need of help.
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Are you serious?
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Completely.
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