[ QUOTE ]
You realize if you wait a few seconds after throwing the SG, CD un-suppresses and you can toe-bomb as normal?
[/ QUOTE ]
*toss smoke grenade*
*cloaking device suppress*
*WHOOSH!*
*MISS (1 mob)*
Baddie01: Hey Guys! I see a hero over there. *draws pistol
Baddie02: I see him to *picks up piece of asphalt*
Baddie03-12 pick up assorted guns, grenades, swords, rocks, and throw them at hero.
[ QUOTE ]
But, then, there are few powersets that the same couldn't be said for. It is my belief that the majority of the griping comes from being too used to the set's previously overpowered status suddenly finding themselves knocked down to the status quo.
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OH?!?!?! /Device was overpowered since when? *points at the /Energy secondary* /Energy has the best of everything and its been FoTM for how long now? Kinda felt I was just under par pre-ED on my AR/Dev, didn't bother me that much in groups. Feel extremely underpowered at times post-ED as it got frustating to play my AR/Dev on solo heroic missions with mobs that mezz out the wazoo.
[ QUOTE ]
Odd, always wiped out full packs of minions up to yellow when I used it. Toe bombing isn't a tactic for use while teaming, no, but for street sweeping hazard zones it's rather effective.
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Shows how long since you really played /device. The only /Device that were streeting were Fire/Device abusing smoke grenade. Nobody really street sweeps anymore except for "Kill X amount" missions. Its far more effiecent to get a mission (reduced debt!) and a better experience reward at the end.
[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, /dev is not the godmode it used to be, but it's not as horribly weak as people make out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its effectiveness got reduced on a power that the majority of /device skip. Auto Turrent, an immoblie/low damage/long recharge/short duration/huge endurance cost power was neutered so its good only for one fight then wait for its long recharge, now compare it to Total Focus which is used every fight often and does a hell of lot damage.
Turret has its uses, like in the respec trial you plant it near the reactor, there are other instances where it is useful, be damned if i can recall any other time i used it. Not exactly useful, it lasts less then however long it does usually due to the radiation, doesnt cause enough aggro to pull mobs off the reactor, has a fairly long cooldown and you need the red shield so you can set it again.
The malta one is far superior, better range, better damage and it lasts forever (assuming people dont kill it). Why they didnt give us a mobile drone from the beginning is the subject of much debate.
Devices/Gadgets is a good concept, not as useful as say the range/damage buff powers from energy, or the holds/slows from ice, or the end sapping of electricty secondary sets. It really needs something to make people say "Wow, that looks good enough to take."
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If the bad guy gets the girl, it's rated R;
And if everybody gets the girl, it's rated X
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I've never oneshotted anything with trip mine with just two SOs. PreED it took 4 to do itto even cons. I had 6 in mine (of course) and combined with full auto (also 6 slotted) I could level orange hazard spawns. Post ED trip mine (with three SOs) has never one shotted whites (I'm pretty sure, I could go check it out)
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
[ QUOTE ]
Post ED trip mine (with three SOs) has never one shotted whites (I'm pretty sure, I could go check it out)
[/ QUOTE ] The only ones I know I've one shotted post ED are carnies, and only then sometimes. Dunno about any of the other enemy groups off the top of my head.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
And trip mine does some lethal damage I believe, which Carnies are weak to.
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Yup. Just saying that it's still possible, once in a blue moon, to one shot things with trip mines. The other 99.999999% of the time they're left with a bit of life.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Gothbat, at what level did you one-shot evens with 2 damage SOs?
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Yup. Just saying that it's still possible, once in a blue moon, to one shot things with trip mines. The other 99.999999% of the time they're left with a bit of life.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mob resistance is important to take into account though. Carnies and plant based DE being about the only groups in the game that are lethal vulnerable.
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... I'm not really sure what we're going back and forth about. As we both seem to basically be saying the same thing here.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yup. Just saying that it's still possible, once in a blue moon, to one shot things with trip mines. The other 99.999999% of the time they're left with a bit of life.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mob resistance is important to take into account though. Carnies and plant based DE being about the only groups in the game that are lethal vulnerable.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not disagreeing, just commenting.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You realize if you wait a few seconds after throwing the SG, CD un-suppresses and you can toe-bomb as normal?
[/ QUOTE ]
*toss smoke grenade*
*cloaking device suppress*
*WHOOSH!*
*MISS (1 mob)*
Baddie01: Hey Guys! I see a hero over there. *draws pistol
Baddie02: I see him to *picks up piece of asphalt*
Baddie03-12 pick up assorted guns, grenades, swords, rocks, and throw them at hero.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do what you logically would have done pre-suppression: Watch for "miss" floating up and re-apply to catch the one(s) missed. The only difference post-suppression is the wait for CD to un-suppress.
[ QUOTE ]
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But, then, there are few powersets that the same couldn't be said for. It is my belief that the majority of the griping comes from being too used to the set's previously overpowered status suddenly finding themselves knocked down to the status quo.
[/ QUOTE ]
OH?!?!?! /Device was overpowered since when?
[/ QUOTE ]
Before ED and the SG fix and the caltrops fix. Yes, it was overpowered then. It was godmode before the SG and caltrops fixes.
[ QUOTE ]
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Odd, always wiped out full packs of minions up to yellow when I used it. Toe bombing isn't a tactic for use while teaming, no, but for street sweeping hazard zones it's rather effective.
[/ QUOTE ]
Shows how long since you really played /device. The only /Device that were streeting were Fire/Device abusing smoke grenade. Nobody really street sweeps anymore except for "Kill X amount" missions. Its far more effiecent to get a mission (reduced debt!) and a better experience reward at the end.
[/ QUOTE ]
Never abused it myself. I streeted quite often, even after SG was fixed. And I saw lots of /dev blasters doing the same. Had one in my supergroup that flat out refused to use SG before it was fixed.
[ QUOTE ]
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Like I said, /dev is not the godmode it used to be, but it's not as horribly weak as people make out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its effectiveness got reduced on a power that the majority of /device skip. Auto Turrent, an immoblie/low damage/long recharge/short duration/huge endurance cost power was neutered so its good only for one fight then wait for its long recharge, now compare it to Total Focus which is used every fight often and does a hell of lot damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
AT was rarely used beforehand. Not like it was the key power of the set. More like the booby prize at the end of the road.
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Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Christ on a cracker Gothbat. Devices wasn't overpowered prior to ED, certainly not in comparison to other powersets. Do you understand that the key reason most people took devices prior to ED was because Targetting Drone permitted you to six slot damage in your attacks, and that this was widely considered to be a fair trade for not havening Build Up? And that since ED, that trade off is no longer possible?
Trip mine and the other damage powers in the Devices secondary certainly dont make up for the lack of Build Up, as all the other secondaries get multiple damage sources (Even Ice Manipulation has three decent damage attacks, though Freezing Touch is a slow DoT) as well as Build Up.
Sure, the bugs with Smoke Grenade and Caltrops overpowered Devices. Which is why those bugs haven't existed for two years or more now. You seem to be a bit stuck on ancient history. Which isn't suprising since, as you've admitted, you haven't played the set in nigh on a year.
Given the radical change that ED brought to the game, and to Devices in particular, I don't see how you consider yourself able to contribute any valueable commentary to the discussion if you haven't actually used the set in the conditions that the rest of us have been operating under for eleven and half months.
You might as well be talking about tiddlywinks, as pre ED experience with Devices is about as relevant to the discussion of post ED Devices.
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Funny, up until ED everyone said it was bar-none the best blaster secondary out there. Suddenly after ED everyone's saying it wasn't that great before... Funny how revisionist history tends to happen on things like this...
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Gothbat, have you even tried /Device in the era of ED?
[ QUOTE ]
*toss smoke grenade*
*cloaking device suppress*
*WHOOSH!*
*MISS (1 mob)*
Baddie01: Hey Guys! I see a hero over there. *draws pistol
Baddie02: I see him to *picks up piece of asphalt*
Baddie03-12 pick up assorted guns, grenades, swords, rocks, and throw them at hero.
You do what you logically would have done pre-suppression: Watch for "miss" floating up and re-apply to catch the one(s) missed. The only difference post-suppression is the wait for CD to un-suppress.
[/ QUOTE ]
You missed the entire point, or you would of seen it if your up to date with /Device. Your close to aggro range when you toss a smoke grenade and cloaking device suppresses. If one mob sees you, it can yell to its buddies, they all draw weapons, and take shots at you while you visually watch the puff of smoke hit them. They are hit with the -perception and pitiful tohit debuff, but they are still aggroed on you.
[ QUOTE ]
Before ED and the SG fix and the caltrops fix. Yes, it was overpowered then. It was godmode before the SG and caltrops fixes.
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Over powered or broken? They got fixed damn fast, or the next Issue release. Now, compared to /energy which is over powered (but not godly) it has everything you could want: build up, conserve power, power boost, boost range, 3 blaps. Hell, if "Range is defence" why the frack is a boost range power not in every secondary? The only reason so many considered /device great was the different play style it offered other then blapping the hell out of stuff.
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AT was rarely used beforehand. Not like it was the key power of the set. More like the booby prize at the end of the road.
[/ QUOTE ]
One thing I will agree with you there. When hasten was permable I think you could get out about 3 turrents at once for a very short over lap with a few recharge. Thought that was damn cool. Never could fit it into my character though.
[ QUOTE ]
Funny, up until ED everyone said it was bar-none the best blaster secondary out there. Suddenly after ED everyone's saying it wasn't that great before... Funny how revisionist history tends to happen on things like this...
[/ QUOTE ]
If I recall correctly /em had taken the mantle of best secondary before ED, though that's really a non issue. They were both considered very good sets Pre-ED, model sets even that others should try to be more like. ED hurt devices badly. 6 slotting TD made up for Accuracy SOs. Wasn't TD's tohit reduced at some point, then the tohit enhancements switched to schedule B (I don't recall, I left during I3 came back late I4)?
Tripmine was able to smoke packs of things with 6 damage SOs in it (now it's a toe bomb/fall back position). Time Bomb has always been hinky and AT even with 6 damage SOs was...well...kind of sad. /devices isn't even a shadow of its former self.
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
[ QUOTE ]
Funny, up until ED everyone said it was bar-none the best blaster secondary out there. Suddenly after ED everyone's saying it wasn't that great before...
[/ QUOTE ] It was great before ED and the GDN hit, most definately. However, the bar-none best blaster secondary was Energy Melee. At least after the first couple months in the game when SG and Caltrops (deservedly) got fixed.
The really great things about devices (in my opinion) were the whole TD allowing you to not slot for accuracy (and therefore more damage or really, whatever), and Cloaking Device. CD could not only pick up a fairly respectable amount of defence if you slotted it, but since stealth didn't supress you actually could throw SG after SG to get all the mobs in a spawn without fear of them suddenly seeing you and aggroing. Now in order to easily toe-bomb like before you're pushed into pool powers (super-speed) that don't actually work quite as well as before I don't think since I swear a lot of mobs got perception increases at some point (could be wrong though, just feels like it).
Even when it was up there in the secondaries (and after the SG and caltrops fixes), it wasn't all that great a set in teams. Not like EM which brought both good damage solo and in teams (and the insta-stun TFing of bosses once you get that high).
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
[ QUOTE ]
Funny, up until ED everyone said it was bar-none the best blaster secondary out there. Suddenly after ED everyone's saying it wasn't that great before... Funny how revisionist history tends to happen on things like this...
[/ QUOTE ]
It wasn't ED, it was the repeated changes up to and including ED. I2 fixed the SG/Caltrops bug, which is fine. I3 brought the (unannounced) deboobitrapification of Trip Mines. GDN reduced the defense of Cloaking Device. Further changes, things like suppression now, in an interesting use of a double negative, cause your -Perception SGs to drop your -Perception CD and since SGs now give you a whopping 3.5% debuff, they're not really worth bothering with. ED came along and made taking TD worthless for non-PvPers because the whole reason for taking it was the ability to six-slot your attacks with damage was now null and void. That's it. ED didn't do this to */Dev. Your fixation with hanging this on ED is like saying plays are deadly to Presidents because Lincoln happened to be shot at one. ED's a part of the problem with */Dev, but it's not to only one.
Now... i noticed you said you would be fighting over +2s in a party.... and you compared the trip mine AT etc to the melee from the other sets.... okay one, +2s should be the norm for a decent party. if your fighting higher and your contribution is heavily affected by damage and accuracy.... your not contributing as much as the blaster who is 1-2 levels above, even if you hit, you just arent. That said, TD is still very good, and you CAN slot less with it AND get better exp doing so.
also.... in a fast party (30 seconds max per mob group) the melee powers are pretty much useless on anything but bosses, on my controller the tanker can down a boss pretty fast from FS, scrappers? good for AVs and bosses, but i'd rather have an AoE blaster and a scrapper than 2 scrappers, a scrapper and a blapper. cant take the aggro? team with trollers and tankers, ive teamed with blasters who took melees, they ended up relying on FS'd nukes and the APP emp attack in order to keep up with my troller, a granite tanker, and a tri-form WS. please oh please save those god awful solo powers for the AVs. my fastest party pre 40 had a 40 archery/dev and a 39-40 fire tanker, AoE is your friend bar and a half every 15 minutes... okay, short of the 4 /kin +2 spines/ party it was my fastest but that cleared an outdoor in 5 minutes.
My point is, the best party blasters ive played with were an archery/dev and an AR/dev, the only /dev blasters i got to team with on my troller, other than that most were /EM and either soloed (and did it pretty well) or tagged along AV-hunting teams and did that well, but were nearly dead-weight till the AV. (aside from the nuke-happy one) you get some great powers in the early levels that benefit the most at the higher levels, the higher level powers? "meh" but you dont need to be worrying about those if you bother to get someone who can keep aggro off you. like one of the people saying it was gimped... the party wont pull across and just fight on the other side, so sit on your side and fire away, if you aggro theyll be blown away with "sniper level damage" and knockback. wait, damage mitigating secondary? :O just noticed. (seriously O_o)
->edit: too late, they all went and started a protest thread, or something like that... ho hum, the turret is mostly for show and the rest of the set is fine ... 9% tohit debuff heavily slotted? with 50% base for even con.... 18% increase in survivability...
Huh?
note: i wasnt using auto-reply for a reason. 
read the heading
Oh, I didn't say you were using auto-reply, I said you weren't making a lick of sense in that mishmash of a post. Just didn't feel like typing all that out so I stuck with "Huh?". Running your yap on a subject you clearly know little about is one thing. Doing so without coherence or, heaven forefend, paragraphs, is just rude.
-_- okay.... devices doesnt suck, it just meshes best with the least popular sets. And people shouldnt compare it to the melee secondary powers because, in a 6-8 man team... they arent very useful. or ill say AS useful... because they can still do good damage to bosses 
And the other part was him saying TD allowing less slotting for even cons to +2s not being strong enough for teaming was kind of odd, since blasters/scrappers get the biggest hit to effectiveness from the level gap.
.... went out of my way to soften my complaint on that post too...
and it has paragraphs, i just didnt use a full line in between, and gee, i guess you think the best judge of your actions is yourself eh? not comparing how the party does with each setup, but just by single, personal, large numbers.
I have played a few mid-level corrs, and apparantly my "75%" is more effective than your 100%... which is odd, even with scourge. and here is why: when a fire/rad corr using his AoEs seems to be more effective than a fire/em blaster teamed with a rad/ defender... its because he gets hung up on his melee.
If you think someone who doesnt list a blaster in his sig cant have experience with them, you should realize my troller went 1-50 in 7 weeks, 40 levels in PuGs. I have had to play with many different blasters and scrappers, I have never had a team go "we need a scrapper" i HAVE however heard "we need a blaster" and you think they want melee? NO. do not get hung up on /em, /dev is a great set. This is not a huge hit either, and god forbid its hard to focus on a primary.
focusing on the secondary gave birth to scrankers, offenders, blappers, and scraptrollers. all which sacrifice overall effectiveness for specific situations.. (Aside from scrapper "scraptrollers" which give up soloability to focus on team-support).
The point of saying that IS that the other secondaries do not make devices look like a gimp. they just add melee, and thats about it, sure its higher damage per hit, but until /em can do that in AoE, i really couldnt care about getting an /em blaster.
if i see an archery/dev im happy because my troller deals with large amounts of aggro with very little damage output. the stronger the AoE... the better.
bit longer than I wanted, input from others + personal experience >>> personal experience
try it, it works oh so much better, I learned to read other opinions in order to improve my own playstyle years ago, in games where if you suck. your booted very. very quickly... (didnt happen to me personally, just a few support chars I teamed with) with 6 hours between groups even being formed.
more editing -.- the PuG bit is that I had to work with what was availably, and had to watch out for others and work my a** off, the only thing i could really focus on in my parties was: what powerset held aggro best and what powersets added the most damage.
you know what it came down to... fire/ tankers were the fastest exp and held aggro easiest without dying (ice couldnt handle AVs terribly well), archery/dev were the most useful blasters, AR/Dev came in second, but did it flashier.
[ QUOTE ]
Funny, up until ED everyone said it was bar-none the best blaster secondary out there. Suddenly after ED everyone's saying it wasn't that great before... Funny how revisionist history tends to happen on things like this...
[/ QUOTE ]
They did? No they didn't, not for a long time. Energy Manipulation has had that crown for a long, long time.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It really is a ridiculous power, and not one that you ever see in comic books, except as a plot hook, such as when a group of heroes are teleported up to an alien space ship to be used as pawns in a intergalactic gladiator game.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL,... /QFT (JLU ftw!)
As for Device Blasters... Atleast you've got 100% Damage and trip-mine in the 20's.
Try playing a /Trap Corr that only has 75%, and no TripMine until 35.
I'll give ya a hint, the FF generator doesn't make up for it!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, two mindless trolls in one thread. We should bottle this and sell it for bait.
[/ QUOTE ]
The funny thing is how people compare a corrupters 75% damage (and other archtype) to a blaster's 100%. Corrupters do 75% of the damage a blaster, but a corrupter's attack does 100% within it's own archtype. A blaster hitting a non resisted target for 100 damage does 100% damage, a corrupter doing 75 damage to a non-resisted target is doing 100% damage, plus the possibility at Scourge and buffs/debuffs.
People need to realize a blaster does 100% damage and only 100% damage. Other archtypes do 45%, 66%, 75%, 80% and 112% of blasters, while also having things like 75% defenses of a tanker and 75% or 85% the capability of a defender. Damage is not the end-all be-all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Far too many people only see damage and have no friggin' clue what else is out there. The funny thing is, these folks normally aren't Blasters. More often than not they're not Blasters but are jealous of Blasters (our *snicker* vaunted damage levels and the fact that more often than not, these folks have found the lack of a safteynet far too frustrating for them and are cranky with folks who can pull it off without the 'net) and conveniently fail to factor in the rest of the tricks they have access to that Blasters do not. Sure, if they had all thier tricks and Blaster-level damage, they'd be pleased as punch. Why not? They'd have their tankmage.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dare you little ****ies to come to the Corruptor forum and say that. Blasting is all about the Burst-Damage. And Devices STILL helps deliver that Burst damage better than any Corruptor secondary outside of what level 38+ Kins can do. ....but noooo, let's ignore all of that and call anyone who's even remotely unsympathetic to Blasters, a "Troll". ...shrewd debate tactic Old'Bean, you really 'Got Me' with that one 
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Last time I checked, there is no Gadgets secondary. There is, however, one called Devices. Freudian slips like this and folks wonder why some hold the belief that the devs don't seem to know the Blaster AT all that much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Gadgets is the internal name of Devices. It's a Legacy issue and it was my mistake when adding the patch note.
As for the change itself, there was an exploit involving TFoe and various stationary entities (like Auto Turret.) In fixing this, the player versions of these entities were locked down as well. I do realise this impacts one of the tactics Devices players used to bypass the limitations of the set. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see if the change hampers the gameplay too severely.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why Castle didn't respond with a ban and a string of expletives to a snide remark like that, I don't know.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, perhaps he's much cooler than the megalomaniacal totalitarian whackjob you'd clearly be in his place if someone dared to voice their grievances?
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It is, after all, just a name.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. Not to folks who wonder, with good reason, if the dev team ignores the AT to the point of not even knowing it. Things like Defiance, continued backburnering, seeming to not know the name one of the powersets in the AT all serve to reinforce this concern on the part of the playerbase. Sometimes a cigar isn't just a cigar.